Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Grumpy on 10 August 2007, 21:59:14
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Seeing as we're talking about ECU codes on this thread, I hope you don't
mind if I butt in with a question rather than start another thread.
Car : 99 2.0 GLS Auto.
ECU: Simtec 56.5 with 4 digit codes.
Paper Clip test with engine running: No flashes = No faults.
Paper Clip test without engine running: 0335 = Crankshaft Sensor.
I assume that the 0335 comes up because of no RPM signal due engine not running,
and in effect I do not have a fault.
Am I correct in this assumption?
Apologies again for hijacking the thread.
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Seeing as we're talking about ECU codes on this thread, I hope you don't
mind if I butt in with a question rather than start another thread.
Car : 99 2.0 GLS Auto.
ECU: Simtec 56.5 with 4 digit codes.
Paper Clip test with engine running: No flashes = No faults.
Paper Clip test without engine running: 0335 = Crankshaft Sensor.
I assume that the 0335 comes up because of no RPM signal due engine not running,
and in effect I do not have a fault.
Am I correct in this assumption?
Apologies again for hijacking the thread.
No, on 2.0l 0335 means knackered crank sensor. Will it rev beyond 4.5k?
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Just nipped out and tried it.
Revved smooth as a nut up to the Red Line.
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eml come on?
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eml come on?
Sometimes.
Occasionally, the car will give a little stutter when on the overrun, as if it's going
to stall but doesn't, and the EML will come on.
If I'm sat in traffic, occasionally the engine will suddenly chop dead, and then
start again with no EML.
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could be the wiring thats damaged. trace wire for sensor bk an check for damage, if none try taking sensor out and cleaning it as its an intermittant fault
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could be the wiring thats damaged. trace wire for sensor bk an check for damage, if none try taking sensor out and cleaning it as its an intermittant fault
Its a hall effect sensor, cleaning wont help...
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Replace the sensor then, don't mess about.
If you have a/c, its fiddly.
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Split from other post to avoid confusion
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Sorry, you split the thread whilst I was posting.
Deleted and moved
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could be the wiring thats damaged
Yes, I'm also beginning to wonder if I have an intermittent circuit break
somewhere. That's why I asked the question about the crank sensor
code.
As said previously, the only code I ever get is 0335 with engine stopped,
and no codes with engine running. If this is a genuine fault, as 'TheBoy'
says, then it would point to the Crank Sensor, or it's wiring, intermittently
breaking down.
The car normally runs smooth as a nut. Idles beautifully at 750rpm. Plenty
of power when you need it (only 47,000 on the clock).
When the car attempts to stall on the overrun, usually approaching a roundabout
or throttle closed at speed on a downhill section of motorway, it gives a sound
that sounds phonetically as 'Psst-Choo', similar to that of a turbo car changing
gear. The car then carries on driving normally with the EML light on. If I stop
and restart, the EML light goes out.
The only other time it does anything, is if I'm sitting at traffic lights the engine
stops dead, just as if the ignition or fuel has switched off. Turn key off, switch on,
give the ECU 5 seconds to perform tests, and it starts normally with no EML
light on.
On the rare occasions that it actually stalls, usually slowing down approaching
and then re-accelerating to cross an empty roundabout, I pop the car into neutral,
cycle the ignition key off and on, start the car whilst still moving and it picks
up again smoothly again with no EML light.
Have rechecked breathers, still clear, checked for a vacuum on the small breather
pipe at idle, (nice strong suck that sticks my thumb to the pipe). All vac pipes connected
and no splits. No oil leaks. Plug wells clear.
Again, only Code is 0335 when engine stopped, no codes when running.
As it seemed to do the stalling thing after opening the throttle from idle, I wondered
if it had something to do with the fuel tank purge valve. This valve only cycles open
with the engine warm and the throttle position sensor indicating the throttle is away
from it's stop (ie engine under load). But I can't figure out why this would be, unless
it's richening the mixture too much, but the ECU would richen the mixture anyway
with an opening throttle.
So, all in all, it's got me a bit stumped. :(Sad
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Hee-hee, that was fun. You split the post as I was composing and posting a long post. ;D
Got myself in a right old muddle trying to delete and move posts from thread to thread
whilst, presumably, you were doing the same thing. :)
Read your new posts now, and it would seem that I could have an intermittent
Crank Sensor fault.
Will change it. It's not expensive, and just needs a bit of fiddly work due to Air/Con,
as you say.
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According to my engine number, this looks like the baby that I need.
http://www.vauxallparts.co.uk/?product_id=117&option=Prod_detail&image_id=95
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yep same engine as me!
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yep same engine as me!
Seeing as you've also got a Simtec 56.5 with 4 digit codes,
do you ever get any codes with the engine running?
Or are yours the same as my 1, only shown with the engine
not running?
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2.0l cannot be paperclipped with engine running. A 0335 means change the sensor (could feasibly be the wheel inside engine, but very unlikely.
Change sensor, as ecu not happy, then see what happens...
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2.0l cannot be paperclipped with engine running
Thanks for that, 'TheBoy'.
That's what's been screwing me up. I followed the link to the 'Topbuzz'
article and it says exactly the opposite:
The Simtec 56.5 fuel systems use a 4 digit flash code. The engine ideally needs to be running when reading the fault codes, otherwise it may show incorrect fault codes.
This must be a general rule for 56.5 and not specific to the 2.0 Omega, which has been throwing me.
Will order a sensor on Monday and get it changed next week.
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2.0l cannot be paperclipped with engine running
Thanks for that, 'TheBoy'.
That's what's been screwing me up. I followed the link to the 'Topbuzz'
article and it says exactly the opposite:
The Simtec 56.5 fuel systems use a 4 digit flash code. The engine ideally needs to be running when reading the fault codes, otherwise it may show incorrect fault codes.
This must be a general rule for 56.5 and not specific to the 2.0 Omega, which has been throwing me.
Will order a sensor on Monday and get it changed next week.
topbuzz is more aimed at astras and chavaliers ;)
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i now get no codes when engine is off but as the boy said if you try doing it when engine is running nothing happens. i don't get any now so as i say it's showing a code so something is wrong, what happens is the ecu picks up the codes when engine is running so the can be read when stopped, so for them to be showing means that whateva code is showing there is a problem with.
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Thanks for your confirmation reply, sparks3ks.
It's always better to get feedback from folk like yourself and 'TheBoy',
that have actually 'Walked the Walk', rather than 'Talk the Talk'. :)
Experience on 'Type' will always beat the 'Ivory Tower'. ;)
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Well, this is fun. Not :(
Got my crank sensor this afternoon. Raised the car and squirmed underneath.
Met by a face full of aircon pump and left hand engine mount.
Nary a crank sensor in sight. :-?
Took off the exhaust heatshield and can just see half of the crank sensor
mounting bolt, poking shyly out by the oil dipstick tube.
Can just get a fingernail to it if I telescope my arm from the top, down by
the exhaust manifold.
Unless anyone's got a different method it looks like the left hand engine
mount's got to come out on this model. I'm certainly not having the
air con system purged to take out the compressor.
Had enough today, have to pace myself these days or I conk out. :(
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Well, this is fun. Not :(
Got my crank sensor this afternoon. Raised the car and squirmed underneath.
Met by a face full of aircon pump and left hand engine mount.
Nary a crank sensor in sight. :-?
Took off the exhaust heatshield and can just see half of the crank sensor
mounting bolt, poking shyly out by the oil dipstick tube.
Can just get a fingernail to it if I telescope my arm from the top, down by
the exhaust manifold.
Unless anyone's got a different method it looks like the left hand engine
mount's got to come out on this model. I'm certainly not having the
air con system purged to take out the compressor.
Had enough today, have to pace myself these days or I conk out. :(
I'm sure I said earlier if you have a/c then its fiddly on 2.0l ;)
Never done it myself, but if its easy to unbolt compressor to give room, thats the way to go (should be flexible pipes to compressor, so you have some movement).
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Never done it myself
Sound move! ;)
Up until today, I was also in that happy situation. :(
Got plenty of time, so I'll just weigh up my options and choose the
less difficult one. (Can't quite bring myself to say the easiest option).
I'll just run around in the old Merc oil-burner until I've sussed it.
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topbuzz is more aimed at astras and chavaliers ;)
Chavaliers?? >:( What is wrong with Cavaliers? My 2.0 CDX is great. Comfortable (although not as comfortable as the Omega) and a nice level of equipment including A/C. Excellent fuel economy as well (which the Omega has not got!)
Back to the thread though, I remember reading on the dark side a member there with an earlier ecotec system (Simtec 56.1) had this issue and it turned out to be the disk on the crank being gummed up with old oil.
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topbuzz is more aimed at astras and chavaliers ;)
Chavaliers?? >:( What is wrong with Cavaliers? My 2.0 CDX is great. Comfortable (although not as comfortable as the Omega) and a nice level of equipment including A/C. Excellent fuel economy as well (which the Omega has not got!)
Opps, sorry :-[
Though many Cavs do seem to end up being Chavved, certainly around where I work.
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turned out to be the disk on the crank being gummed up with old oil.
Cheer me up some more, why doncha! >:(
Only joking! :)
Weighed this job up some more, whilst relaxing with a nice mug of coffee.
With the exhaust heat shield removed, so that the dog can now see the
rabbit, I reckon this job is best tackled from above, not from below
iaw the Haynes manual.
If I put a universal joint on the torx socket, and stiffen it with some tape,
I should be able to get the angle with 2ft of extension bars, to attack it
by going down between the 2 hoses to SAIS cut-off valve solenoid.
I'm used to working by feel when you can't get visual access, so that
shouldn't be a problem.
Judging by the size of the sensor, and the connector on the other end of the cable,
I don't think there will be enough room to route the cable in the original
run without removing the power steering pump.
I'll tie some cord to each end when disconnected and try pulling it through,
but I doubt it will fit.
So the plan will be to re-route it up the oil dipstick tube with cable ties to keep
it away from the exhaust manifold and over the top of the cam belt cover, rather
than down it and snaking under the power steering pump.
The best laid plans of mice and men, and all that. :)
But will keep you posted on how I get on.
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topbuzz is more aimed at astras and chavaliers ;)
Chavaliers?? >:( What is wrong with Cavaliers? My 2.0 CDX is great. Comfortable (although not as comfortable as the Omega) and a nice level of equipment including A/C. Excellent fuel economy as well (which the Omega has not got!)
Opps, sorry :-[
Though many Cavs do seem to end up being Chavved, certainly around where I work.
No worries - just defending my unchavved CDX! ;) I agree though, that some Cavs are now being subjected to this kind of treatment. Not only Cavs, but Escorts, Saxos and Corsas. I would have thought that they should concentrate more on the standard of driving rather than drilled metal peddles, metal tax disc holders etc!
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I've got the old crank sensor out, in between rain showers,
but the old sensor looks different to the new one.
The new one is perfectly round, but the old one is more like
an oval shape with 2 flat sides and what looks like 2 locating
fins that run the length of the sensor.
The total diameters of each sensor look the same.
Can't get to the hole in the crankcase to see if it's round or not.
Access to this job is absolutely dire.
Are these interchangeable?
Anyone come across this before?
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Done a quick Google and a peruse around some part catalogues.
Pt. Nr. On old one = 90506103
pt. Nr. On new one =09174621 (Which is correct for my engine number)
The 2 part numbers seem to be interchangeable with the new
number superceding the old one.
Also found this on one of the sites:
The old superceded part 90506103 has a more squared off head than this version
Which would appear to correlate with my two.
Have put a vernier caliper across the max diameter of each sensor
and they are exactly the same.
Here's a quick pic to show what I mean. It's a bit difficult to get a good
picture, as they are black and the features tend to blend into each
other when photographed.
(http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j30/Melnibone/Omega20l/CrankSensors.jpg)
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if plug fits, it will be fine
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hi grumpy
it's just a case of thev'e modded sensor again. you know like the bas****s have a habit of doing!!!!!
but as TB says if it fits . . . . . . . .
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
Just examined the old sensor more carefully. The sensor head is cracked
near where the cables enter it. At the very least this will be letting in
moisture, so it deffo needed replacing.
Tried pulling the old sensor cable through between the power steering
pump and the back casing of the cambelt cover, (where it's routed),
but no chance. This item must be fitted during engine manufacture
prior to fitting the cambelt cover and or power steering pump.
So I've cut off the plug and will re-route the new one. I think folk do
this on the V6's as well?
Anyway, at least I've proved that it's possible to do the job from the top
after removing the exhaust manifold heatshield, than jacking it up, removing
the engine mount, and scrabbling around on your back.
You have to work blind, feeling at full stretch with your fingertips, but from what
I can gather, reading these threads, that's no different to what you have to do
when replacing the Dis pack on the V6's.
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Welcome to the world of Omega maintenance mate ;) Good on you for keeping at it and good luck :y
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
Just examined the old sensor more carefully. The sensor head is cracked
near where the cables enter it. At the very least this will be letting in
moisture, so it deffo needed replacing.
Tried pulling the old sensor cable through between the power steering
pump and the back casing of the cambelt cover, (where it's routed),
but no chance. This item must be fitted during engine manufacture
prior to fitting the cambelt cover and or power steering pump.
So I've cut off the plug and will re-route the new one. I think folk do
this on the V6's as well?
Anyway, at least I've proved that it's possible to do the job from the top
after removing the exhaust manifold heatshield, than jacking it up, removing
the engine mount, and scrabbling around on your back.
You have to work blind, feeling at full stretch with your fingertips, but from what
I can gather, reading these threads, that's no different to what you have to do
when replacing the Dis pack on the V6's.
There is a guide in Maintence Guides section for cable routing...
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Crank sensor replaced. The new one did fit ok, even though the
shape was different.
All seems to be behaving itself.
Starts fine, no rev limiting.
Idle speed steady at 750.
Engine temp steady around 93 to 96.
Took it for a good run. No stalling or cutting out, so far.
Time will tell.
No point in doing paper clip test yet, as no EML and I believe
you need a certain number of clean starts to purge the fault
codes from memory.
Job is very awkward to do, due to access. If you have dinner plate
hands, or don't have a 1/4" inch universal drive socket adaptor, or
mechanical fingers to refit the bolt, I doubt you'll manage it by my
method of removing the exhaust manifold heatshield and working
blind from above.
If you follow the oil dipstick tube down to the crankcase, the crank
sensor is mounted about 2" forward of that behind the power steering
pump. You can't actually see it.
Haynes suggests jacking and removing the engine mount. This may just let
you see it, but I doubt it will improve access. The oil dipstick tube restricts
access something terrible.
If you can't access it from the top, I suggest an easier method would be to
remove the power steering pump, not the engine mount.
This job would be made easier from the top if the oil dipstick tube was removed.
But I have no idea how it's fixed in position.
Has anyone ever removed one?
Is it screwed in?
A push fit?
Secured inside the crankcase?
Shout up if you've actually removed one.
No guessing or anecdotal evidence please, if you give duff gen
someone may snap it off. You need to have 'walked the walk' here.
Right, ready for the next job, whatever that may be.
Never a dull moment in Omega ownership, is there. ::)
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hi
there's always something ready to go on these cars, i'm just waiting for the next thing on mine!!!!
but at least we all have you lot on oof to come to for help!!
steve leeds
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i'm just waiting for the next thing on mine!!!!
So's SWAMBO ! She's got a deep, pathological, mistrust of this car now. :)
She's learned a few new curses and swearwords off me the last few days,
and is none too impressed. :(
Reckons I've become very coarse since buying our first Vauxhall. ;D
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:y
Think how much you've saved ;)
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A quick update, as I think it's useful if folk give some feedback
as to what actually fixed a certain set of symptoms.
Just got back from 4 day mini-break. The car did approx 600 miles
under all sorts of conditions. Motorway, stop/start urban, up and down
Cumbrian mountain passes.
Ran like a Swiss watch. Not a cut-out or hiccup in sight.
Moral of the story, at the first sign of a Crank Sensor fault code , get
it changed before it bites you on the bum. :)