Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TeeVeeTee on 27 August 2007, 14:04:15
-
Hi Guys,
I have a W reg 2.5 Elite Estate with a vibration problem, I've had the car for just over 2 years and have added probably 8000 miles in that time (yes 8k). In total it has done around 49k.
The vibration has always been there I suppose but because of the low miles I've never really been that concerned but it is now becoming an annoyance and is spoiling what otherwise would be a lovely car.
This is what I've done so far to address the prob - wheels balanced about 4 times at different outlets (all of which seem to have their own idea and say whoever did it last was a plonker), Tracking done once, rears on front with new rubber. I'm at the point now where I need to use the car more frequently but don't want to chase the problem around my bank balance. The wheels are the 5 spoke alloys that seem quite popular with you guys and I'm told none are buckled and there are no bulges on tyres.
Can one of you kind souls give me a bullet point list in order of likely cause so that I can take a sensible and economic approach - thank you.
Incidentally, I did search the forums and didn't really see anything that pinpointed the prob.
I put the car in neutral briefly and the vibration was still there and no, the vibration cannot be driven through, at least without seriously upsetting our wonderful Police, so I only went so far.
Many thanks, TVT
-
Welcome... someone more knowledgeable will come along soon I'm sure, all I can suggest is a trip up the M25 to Watford to see Tony, he will adjust the suspension geometry properly and will also be able to advise re any perished bits e.g. bushes, drop links, etc. He is a member on this forum, and see also his website http://wheels-inmotion.co.uk.
-
I also had similiar problems in the past..Wishbones and joints will be good points to check..
PS: some 5 arm alloys make problem in the balance.For that reason I changed to 19-20 arm profiles..Now no problem for balance
except washing them :(
-
Can you feel the vibration through the seat ? or through the steering wheel? if you can feel it through the seat i would suggest it is the prop shaft out of balance. the big rubber joint at the front of the shaft near the box have a tendancy to go soft and cause a vibration through the car.if not then suspension joints or bushes next on the list.Good luck let us know what you find. :y
-
the vibration cannot be driven through, at least without seriously upsetting our wonderful Police
With a V6 Estate, just tell em you ARE the police, special branch 8-) ;D
Yeah, there are a few known problems, and there have been a few threads recently (I find the search facility on this site poor too!). With the Omega being such a heavy car with a big engine, it can take its toll on the suspension. You see alot of people replacing wishbones/bushes etc.
I don't see the wheels/alloys really being a problem, i'm guessing they are the 17" flat 'Dish' design wheels so should be pretty tough.
'Wheels In Motion' is the guy on here that can 'work his magic', and there's only a limited number of things it can be so sit tight and don't start opening your wallet just yet!
All the best :y
-
Have you had a read of this thread?
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1187649557
Though yours is a facelift so a bit of a shot in the dark, there's a bit of a 'checklist' though!
-
I had a problem like yours. Spent ages checking everything and getting all the tyres balanced.
Eventually (after 25k miles) replaced the rear tyres because they wore out and the problem disappeared.
Wheel balances are only good to about 70mph, after that it's pot luck and I had a duff tyre (and it was a good make).
-
I had a problem like yours. Spent ages checking everything and getting all the tyres balanced.
Eventually (after 25k miles) replaced the rear tyres because they wore out and the problem disappeared.
Wheel balances are only good to about 70mph, after that it's pot luck and I had a duff tyre (and it was a good make).
I agree... most shops check the balance with slow speeds (on the machine) even very few grams of erroneous weight in high speeds will have big effects..
Once see a shop with really measuring the balance on the car turning the wheels 60-70 mph with light flashes results were really perfect but was dangerous..
-
I have a similar problem, although mine doesn't start until about 90mph. Obviously I'm not doing that kind of speed every day so I live with it. Nevertheless, it would be interesting if we could get to the bottom of it. Vibration at that speed has got to affect handling characteristics and cannot be good for general tyre wear.
-
That's odd, I've had my estate for 15 months and experienced a high speed vibration for the first time on Friday. Couldn't feel anything thro' steering wheel or floorpan but the noise was deafening! So I assume it was an unusual crosswind condition causing turbulance over that huge roof panel.
Maybe your vibration is similar?
Eddie.
-
Many rapid fit tyre places do not balance very well. Omega has wide wheels and is very much affected by poor balancing...
-
Eddie
Sorry if you think Im teching grandmother to sich eggs and all that, but did you have a rear window open at the time? I have experienced some horrible ear-numbing vibrations which are instantly cured by closing all the windows - it's just the air vibrating in the cabin, and, as you witnessed, not felt through the body of the car.
Maybe?
-
Eddie
Sorry if you think Im teching grandmother to sich eggs and all that, but did you have a rear window open at the time? I have experienced some horrible ear-numbing vibrations which are instantly cured by closing all the windows - it's just the air vibrating in the cabin, and, as you witnessed, not felt through the body of the car.
Maybe?
Got me worried there. I havn't touched the window buttons since then, so I've just rushed out to see if any windows were still open. They aren't but it was a point worth checking.
Thanks,
Eddie.
-
Thanks very much for the responses guys, I must say I do like this site! ;D
The vibration is at the wheels as far as I can tell, knocking it into neutral and slowing the drive train down made no difference so I'm guessing it is wheels/geometry etc and not the propshaft or the engine (it was a Mercedes mechanic that suggested that, so don't shoot) but what do I know.
There is no noise associated with the vibration and thankfully it isn't violent, just enough to be a pain and spoil things. Windows were not open but the the sunroof has been in a variety of positions, including closed, so that isolates that I think, on that subject though I do get lots of 'turbulent' air in the cabin with the roof fully open, so I generally keep it one or two clicks towards closed, depending on speed.
Yes Davlad22, I did read http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1188219855/0, thanks for that - I would add that the car passed an MOT about two weeks ago, but keep em coming and I'm not discounting anything, if there's any left of course
Thanks again.
-
I'm afraid the propshaft could be the culprit as in neutral, it rotates with the rear wheels, not with the engine.
But if your tyres are old, they can go out of shape, and as stated above, sometimes the only cure is a pair of new tyres.
Good luck (and don't shoot that Mercedes mechanic yet).
-
At the time I buy the car..Also the tires had lost the correct shape although they were new..The previous owner was a soldier and dont use the car for a long time...
-
Many rapid fit tyre places do not balance very well. Omega has wide wheels and is very much affected by poor balancing...
I sat and watched a local place balancing them once. They run them up on the machine, added weights where indicated and chuck back on the car. No check to make sure it is now balanced after adding weights, although this would have taken them about 5 seconds >:(.
Have you tried swapping over the front and rear wheels on each side in turn? If the vibration moves from the chassis to the steering or vice versa, you know when you've moved the troublesome wheel. If it doesn't move with both wheels you can suspect something in the braking / transmission / suspension.
Because the propshaft rotates much faster than the wheels I'd expect it to show signs of vibration from lower speeds - around 30-40 MPH is typical IME. If the vibration doesn't start until motorway speeds I'd be surprised if it were something rotating at propshaft speed.
If the car has been sitting on the tyres for a while it could be that they are out of shape and it may be that they'll regain their shape over a period of time during regular use, meaning that if you have them balanced they'll quickly go out of balance again...
Kevin
-
Don't think this will help TVT but may be worth sharing.
I had a new set of tyres fitted and all seemed well for a couple of weeks and then a vibration set on at around 70- I don't do alot of motorway miles. Vibration was felt through the seat and was bad. All sorts of dire thoughts ....prop sahft 'wrong tyres. Took it back to the tyre outlet and the balance weight had come off arear tyre. Exscuse from the tyre fitter was they now use zinc balance weigts instead of lead and they detach easily. Hope you solve your problem as they are a lovely car.
-
I feel the problem is balancing.
Most tyre centres use the wheels centre hole to mount the wheel on the balancer. The centre hole is cosmetic and not guaranteed to be surgically central.
The correct way to mount the wheel is on a "studded plate" this mimics the same method as the wheel is bolted to the car.
Peugeot/ citroen realised this years ago and that's why most of their wheels have solid centres.
Phone around and ask the tyre shop if they can balance wheels with solid centres like Peugeot 205/6 then have them test the balance.
-
Is it worth trying to find a centre that does "on car" balancing ?? This may be beneficial to tracing the source if it is a single wheel that is out, and will ensure that all rotating parts are in the equation, ie brake discs, drive shafts etc etc ?
-
Is it worth trying to find a centre that does "on car" balancing ?? This may be beneficial to tracing the source if it is a single wheel that is out, and will ensure that all rotating parts are in the equation, ie brake discs, drive shafts etc etc ?
Think you have right..On car balancing is very important but here is rare..Only old people use that way..The new ones trust the machines too much..
-
I feel the problem is balancing.
Most tyre centres use the wheels centre hole to mount the wheel on the balancer. The centre hole is cosmetic and not guaranteed to be surgically central.
The correct way to mount the wheel is on a "studded plate" this mimics the same method as the wheel is bolted to the car.
Peugeot/ citroen realised this years ago and that's why most of their wheels have solid centres.
Phone around and ask the tyre shop if they can balance wheels with solid centres like Peugeot 205/6 then have them test the balance.
I thought the wheels on most cars are hub-centric, that is the centre hole in the wheel actually sits on the hub, then the bolts are tightened to lock the wheel in place. In which case the hole would have to be perfectly centred, otherwise the wheel would never sit centred on the hub.
That's the reason you have to buy wheels with the correct centre bore, as even if the stud pattern is correct an oversize centre bore will allow the wheel to move and place more force on the bolts than they were designed for. An undersize centre bore obviously won't allow the wheel to be fitted at all.
-
I feel the problem is balancing.
Most tyre centres use the wheels centre hole to mount the wheel on the balancer. The centre hole is cosmetic and not guaranteed to be surgically central.
The correct way to mount the wheel is on a "studded plate" this mimics the same method as the wheel is bolted to the car.
Peugeot/ citroen realised this years ago and that's why most of their wheels have solid centres.
Phone around and ask the tyre shop if they can balance wheels with solid centres like Peugeot 205/6 then have them test the balance.
I thought the wheels on most cars are hub-centric, that is the centre hole in the wheel actually sits on the hub, then the bolts are tightened to lock the wheel in place. In which case the hole would have to be perfectly centred, otherwise the wheel would never sit centred on the hub.
That's the reason you have to buy wheels with the correct centre bore, as even if the stud pattern is correct an oversize centre bore will allow the wheel to move and place more force on the bolts than they were designed for. An undersize centre bore obviously won't allow the wheel to be fitted at all.
I think its the studs/bolts that centre it - though that was why they had the taper bits on....
-
OK, thanks again for all the replies, this is what I'm going to do -
1. Take the spare and replace each wheel in turn and run it up the MWay to 70 (it's only around the corner so it wont take long.
2. Look for an outlet that balances wheels on the car or a specialist alignment centre (like rocking horse droppings I suspect)
3. Wait until I need new tyres - not long now
4. Start looking at replacing bits and pieces.
Like many of you, I'm almost certain that it's some kind of wheel related problem like balancing.
This will be done as soon as I can and I'll update the thread asap
Cheers
TVT
-
Please look at my post 'Wheel Balance !!!!', try to make a friend of a tyre garage (you know what i mean), they have the equipment but the wheel balance maybe fine for the local school run, but not for prolonged motorway/higher speeds.
Please check all wheels and tyres first before you spend loads of money on other things.
regards
richard
-
finding alloys 15-16-17 with original opel/vauxhall bolt distance and count 5 x 110 is problem here..
I see some garages offer 5 x 112 (possibly beamer) that I think will cause problems..
5 x 110 dont let any gap for bolts and centre...Its perfect fit. No need for bandage..
In my previous car this was nightmare..
-
finding alloys 15-16-17 with original opel/vauxhall bolt distance and count 5 x 110 is problem here..
I see some garages offer 5 x 112 (possibly beamer) that I think will cause problems..
5 x 110 dont let any gap for bolts and centre...Its perfect fit. No need for bandage..
In my previous car this was nightmare..
5x112 do give a huge vibration on an Omega ::)
-
I have recently had four brand new tyres, wheels balanced etc etc
And also had new front discs and pads, all needed doing anyway,
Because I had a slight vibration through the steering wheel, so I thought all the above would have solved it, but its still there, so my next thing to do is now check my bushes.My car has done 75,000 miles.
You didn't mention how long you have had your front discs on your car, as they can warp and cause a similar vibration..................its just a thought,
I'm now going to check my bush ;D
Kev,
-
The disks, hmm - yes I had thought of that, I will check them too. My wife's old fiesta Auto went through a set every six months.
(Something to do with a faulty gearbox Valve, meaning the 'creep' was almost the equivalent to to a racing start)
Couldn't get shot of it quick enough. (Not sure I want to know about your bush though) ;D
TVT
-
I had this problem last year identical to yours and it turned out to be the front Camber it was too near to the vertical should be around -1.20 or there abouts
im sure this is your prob as the speed increases the vibration gets worse if you drop the camber a bit you will find that the vibration comes in later ie if going 50 and vibrates it will start at 60 if you can understand that, omegas need negative camber my friends omega was set at vertical and it vibrated like hell after droping it in stages the vibration came later and later till all gone camber was - 1.15