Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STMO123 on 16 August 2006, 19:36:02
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Just been looking at Elite Petes thread omega v BMW and it brought to mind a question I've always pondered on.
The 0-60 times given for autos are usually about 1sec-1.5sec slower than manuals.
On TG I once watched how these times were achieved. On the manual the driver(professional, of couse)
had to 'snatch' the gears very quickly to get the fastest time. On an auto theres much less of an art to it, foot down and away you go.
Now, taking into account that, even though most of us fancy ourselves,we are not pro drivers, in the past I've found that I can usually get away more quickly in an auto.
My 2.3 saab LP turbo was a beast. Not much, including BMW diesels, got away quicker than me.
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AUtos can be slower off the line due to high gearing.
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Yes,in everyday driving an auto will usually leave for dead a similarly powered manual without trying,IMHO,unless the manual driver powershifts with no regard for the life of the clutch and gearbox.
I cannot fathom the British obsession with changing gear countless times on every journey,what a waste of effort when a modern auto will always be in the right gear. A guy was boasting the other day that his new diesel eurobox had a six speed gearbox! He was upset when it was pointed out that the six speeds were needed to keep the horribly peaky engine on the boil.Car makers are clever(or at least their marketing departments are) making the hinderence of an extra gearchange every timeyou want to reach cruising speed into a selling point!
When asked,most people who detest autos have never driven one for any length of time,citing 'lack of engine braking' or feeling'less in control' as the reason they would never buy an auto.Speaking personally, I wouldn't buy a manual for everyday motoring,I hate wasting time and energy on doing unneccesary chores. :)
BTW does anybody else use their left foot for braking when driving an auto ?I dont mean when just parking or low speed manouvering,but exclusively.I picked up this wierd habit in the sixties whilst running a mk2 Ford Zodiac auto with a tendency to stall when braking,hence the need to brake with the left foot whilst keeping the engine running with the right foot! It was suprisingly easy to learn how to modulate my braking with my left foot,even in a emergency situation.Yet when a drive a manual I automatically(no pun intended) brake with my right foot.
Still ,if it's good enough for F1 drivers its good enough for me,although,apparantly I would fail a drivng test nowadays for doing what comes naturally-left foot braking!
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Left foot braking hurts too much. The first and last time I did it I nearly ended up through the windscreen and the wife gave me a slap ;D
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I drive an auto most of the time. I prefer auto. However, there is no doubt that a manual gives more control mid corner and better acceleration (even with similar ratios). Economy should be better in manual as well. The torque converter in an auto has a lot to answer for...
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Along country roads or towing autos are much easier. Manuals are more fun when pushing on but a big V6 makes an auto fun
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being young i still like the manual, however if my millage increases a lot in a few years i will want an auto...
Manual is still bags more fun though :D
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Most modern autos are of the tiptronic type which can be driven like a manual on the twisty bits when you're in the mood and you still get to relax in crawling trafic.However,steer clear of the 'Selespeed' system as fitted to Alfas and Fiats,it's very jerky and unreliable. My girlfriend's Alfa 156 at 60k is on it's third gearbox ! No wonder they are worthless.....the cars I mean,not girlfriends. :)
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No contest - Auto every time [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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I definitely prefer an auto, it's much easier, and, I think, more economical, around town.
With a big V6 engine, I don't notice the loss of power.
Manuals are probably more economical on motorways.
Twice a week I drive a manual gearbox mini-bus around the town. It reminds me how much easier it is with an auto-box.
There's no way I'd go back to a manual. [smiley=happy.gif]
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No contest - Auto every time [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Here here, i agree. :)
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Well it's quite clear to see the difference between the drivers, and the "get from a-b with as little effort as possible" :D
"An auto will leave for dead a similar manual".... LOL what rubbish, the autos almost always have higher gearing which kills acceleration (IMO the manual in the Omega is over-geared for an engine that needs 4500+ RPM to get going, the autos with only 4 ratios are woefully over-geared), and that's before you take into account the torque convertor burning up a fair chunk of your horsepower as heat.
Oh and manufacturer's 0-60 times for manual cars tend to be conservative in my experience, it's quite easy to beat them without being overly harsh on the clutch and gearbox, provided you can drive properly! One of the advantages of a clutch is that you can get the revs up before launching so the engine doesn't bog down... OK do it every time you take off and you'll wear out the clutch eventually, but it'll knock a fair bit off the quoted 0-60 time. The BMW SMG gearbox even has a "launch control" button that does this for you via hydraulic actuators!
This though is the funniest part: "a modern auto will always be in the right gear"... hmm, I guess you've never done any advanced driving (that is, road driving not race type stuff). The "right gear" takes into account a lot of factors, some of them being road conditions and what's coming up ahead. Now I can't say for sure but I'd suspect even "modern" autos don't yet have sensors monitoring the road conditions, and cameras reading the road ahead? Now if you're a "point and squirt" type driver who just wants to get to the destination, then it probably is in what you'd consider to be the right gear. But I'm my experience, other than cruising on the motorway they're often in the wrong gear... I'd hazard a bet that if you sat an advanced driving test in a manual car, but selected the gears as an auto does then you'd be pretty certain to fail. Pro-active driving is as much about reading what's ahead and selecting the appropriate gear, rather than just naively basing it on engine revs and load.
In summary: yes, driving auto is easier; yes it takes less skill to do a 0-60.... but the reality is many people (myself included) consider that the better performance, better fuel economy, more driver involvement (and thus enjoyment) of a manual gearbox far outway any of the disavantages. If using your left hand to move a small stick now and then is such a chore then that's your prerogative, but personally I don't see it as much different to turning the wheel, or pressing the brakes - it's just as much part of the driving, and I quite enjoy it.
BTW Tiptronic is utter crap, absolutely nothing like a manual to drive... typically reaction is quite slow, it's still got the dreaded torque convertor, and best of all the computer is smarter than you so it can over-ride your gear selections - all humans are inherently stupid aren't they? If you really can't be bothered moving a stick, but want to feel like you're controlling the car, then I'd suggest BMW's SMG-II or Audi's DSG or similar. Proper "manual" gearboxes with a proper clutch, but all hydraulically activated so it's shifted for you. Shifts can be done really quickly, and it retains the proper control of a clutch, unlike the elastic band effect of a torque convertor - not to mention the power-sapping heating of transmission fluid.
But in the end, maybe you should consider a chauffeur to drive you around... can you really be bothered turning that stupid big circle every few minutes just to get the car to go around corners? Pah!
8-)
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I quote from the RoSPA website, from an article about driving more safely with regard to slush-o-matics, this is not about getting from A-B as quickly as possible, in which case I expect the benefits of manual are pretty obvious.
The torque converter, as the name implies, converts the torque or turning effort of the engine power through the gear ratios to the drive wheels. Basically, the torque converter consists mainly of an impeller, which is driven by the engine and a turbine that drives the gearbox. Each is bowl shaped and contains a number of partitions or vanes. They are mounted face-to-face in the oil filled gearbox but there is no physical contact between them. Put simply, when you press the accelerator you increase the speed of the impeller, which forces the gearbox oil through the vanes of the turbine, making it rotate. An increase or decrease in torque has the same effect as changing to a higher or lower gear.
This almost fluid connection between the engine, through the gearbox, to the drive wheels means that leaving the gear lever in ‘D’ when negotiating a hazard is not the same as leaving a manual gearbox in top gear.
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Many drivers of automatics leave the gear selector in D and never consider other options built into the gearbox even though there are times when this might be clearly desirable to optimise flexibility and control of the vehicle. In many cases this is due to ignorance of the potential benefits of using the full range of the gearbox.
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Manually selecting a set of ratios may be in response a particular hazard where there is a need for more control through use of the accelerator. This will prevent the gear changing up automatically, which may result in the vehicle ‘running on’ and increasing speed when this is not required. Manually locking a ratio also provides the flexibility to control speed during and after an overtaking manoeuvre, as an alternative to a ‘kick-down’ or when approaching an area of uncertainty. However, when the specific or general need for flexibility has passed the ‘D’ (Drive) option should be reconsidered.
Candidates may also choose to retain a lower ratio, for instance within a built-up area, to improve control through the accelerator. However, the upper ratio selected should be appropriate to the circumstances. Selecting 3 in a 5 speed automatic box may be suitable for urban driving but 4 may be the better and more flexible choice for winding rural roads. Leaving the gearbox in ‘D’ may be appropriate for open bends where the flexibility of a lower ratio is not considered necessary.
Candidates should remember that, as with a manual gearbox, selecting a specific ratio on an automatic box should take place when the correct speed for the hazard has been attained. As with a manual gearbox secondary braking should be avoided.
Some police forces advocate a more direct manual use of the automatic box, particularly in ‘pursuit’ or ‘response’ situations. However, for the purposes of the RoSPA test, where that degree of flexibility and maximum performance is neither required nor necessary, the manual over-ride facility must not be used excessively.
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Single bends can normally be negotiated in D. For a series of bends consider locking the vehicle into a suitable ratio prior to the first bend, and on exit from that bend, when the accelerator is eased to set the vehicle up for the next bend, the vehicle will not automatically change up and the driver will have the benefit of engine braking which will give better control.
Of course, all this depends on the driver's willingness to exert the "unnecessary time and effort" to move that big stick between the front seats now and again in the pursuit of driving more safely ;)
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No contest - Auto every time [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Here here, i agree. :)
Bunch of lazy old gits....MANUAL!!! ;D
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Maybe I gave the wrong impression about my driving style.Just to clarify, my motoring experience includes competing in countless road and special stage rallies,short circuit racing ,hillclimbs,and autotests quite successfully in the 60's and 70's,before a wife and kids stopped play .I have also driven over 2million road miles on three different continents during the course of my career without major incident.I can change gear without thinking like any experienced driver-but why should I?
No,I was talking about real world motoring,and in the the real world an average driver in an auto will outdrag an average driver in a manual-power and weight being more or less equal.
As for needing a manual to have control over a car,todays vehicles have huge reserves of roadholding and braking ability that needing to change down to 'steady the ship'as it were is an archaic old wives tale.
Manuals have their uses,all my competition cars were manual as were all the commercial vehicles I owned for business use.In fact my first truck was ex WW2 with a crash gearbox which took some mastering!
BTW,I passed my Advanced Driving test in 1981.
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When I started the thread I was talking about Mr Average v Mr Average from a standing start, hence, I was talking very genarally. I'm sure both options have their merits in any given circumstance.
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I find that an auto gearbox is fine as long as you have a reasonably powerful engine, I find them frustrating with an under powered engine.
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I completely agree with royston1945. The anti-auto/I want to be in control brigade will never change their view - complete obsession with manual gearboxes. Some cars don't sell (as easy) second hand if the original owner specified a manual ie Jags.
I too use my left foot for braking.
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You're right about spec affecting values of executive cars,Andy B,a manual S class Merc or 7series BMW is virtually unsellable as a used vehicle.
The whole auto vs manual thing IMHO boils down to horses for courses.A track day car,a Sunday toy or a tiny hatchback should of course be manual ,but an everyday big engined car like the Omega shuld be automatic,it suits the character of the car.
Of course ,if you actually relish changing gear ,why not go the whole hog and have manual window winders,non-powered steering,no syncromesh,cable brakes ,no heating and an opening windscreen for ventilation!
;D ;D
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Oh, and a seven speed gearbox ;D
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Well, I drive both auto and manual V6 Omegas and I would choose the manual every time......
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I can definitely see both points of view on this.
I was a manual gearbox devotee, I never wanted an auto, until I bought my first one. It was an Audi 100, and the only reason I bought it was because it was a bargain.
After that, I never wanted another manual.
The mini-bus that I drive is manual, I don't know what size the engine is, it's a Transit diesel. If I get the clutch and the revs right, I can beat most things away from the lights. Of course, they don't know that they are in a race. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]
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i have an auto in my cabin cruiser (thats not a cute name for the omega) and thats the place for it. oh and i can left foot brake in a manual
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i have an auto in my cabin cruiser (thats not a cute name for the omega) and thats the place for it. oh and i can left foot brake in a manual
How do you get your right foot onto the clutch?
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The auto in my 2.0 is generally ok (not the first auto i've owned) but when a quick increse in speed is required it is slow to get it's arse into the right gear or just bogs down when coming out of country corners. I know holding it back via the stick is an option but in preference give me a manual
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i have an auto in my cabin cruiser (thats not a cute name for the omega) and thats the place for it. oh and i can left foot brake in a manual
How do you get your right foot onto the clutch?
generaly speaking when im left foot braking its on the twistys at red line flat out and im not changing gear just dont want to hit tree
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So you drive your car pretty hard just noticed yours is a manual, what sort of mileage do you get?
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Well......for what its worth.
I have always driven manual cars.
Swore i wouldnt drive an auto.
Actually swore i wouldnt drive a vauxhall :o
I now drive an auto MV6.
I am converted, prefer the auto - lazy performance driving.
So i dont think the anti auto crew ( as i was one of them) will never change there minds :)
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Well......for what its worth.
I have always driven manual cars.
Swore i wouldnt drive an auto.
Actually swore i wouldnt drive a vauxhall :o
I now drive an auto MV6.
I am converted, prefer the auto - lazy performance driving.
So i dont think the anti auto crew ( as i was one of them) will never change there minds :)
I'm exactly the same - never wanted auto, always said never own another Vauxhall. I too now drive an auto MV6. Spooky.
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So you drive your car pretty hard just noticed yours is a manual, what sort of mileage do you get?
bad mid to low twentys when im havin fun hense my constant whingeing about havin to get something more economical
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After having a 2.5 omega auto and selling that to buy 2.0 manual rover 75 (I KNOW :-[) then back
again to a 2.5 auto omega i can proudly say i will hopefully never go manual ever again.
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A few years ago I said I'd never have an auto
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A few years ago I said I'd never have an auto
And????? You can't leave it there. Some of us don't know how this ended.
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What a great thread to contibrute to for my first postings on this super forum.I think I'm going to like it on here.Thanks everyone for the debate,it makes a change to discuss something other than the depressing mechanical maladies of our favourite marque. ;D
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What a great thread to contibrute to for my first postings on this super forum.I think I'm going to like it on here.Thanks everyone for the debate,it makes a change to discuss something other than the depressing mechanical maladies of our favourite marque. ;D
We'd recently had a similar 'debate' (...... but I can't find the topic) Same result though. :-/
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A few years ago I said I'd never have an auto
And????? You can't leave it there. Some of us don't know how this ended.
Had a GLS 2.0 - crashed due to over tired, only decent Omega was the 2.0 CD Auto I ran for four years
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The anti-auto/I want to be in control brigade will never change their view - complete obsession with manual gearboxes.
The anti-manual crew will never change their view - complete obession with exerting as little effort as possible, no interest in enjoying the driving experience. Most of them would have a pair of escalators in their house too given the option, what a chore having to walk up stairs! ::)
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Stairs? Too much like hard work,i bought a bungalow! ;D
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You're right about spec affecting values of executive cars,Andy B,a manual S class Merc or 7series BMW is virtually unsellable as a used vehicle.
My 840Ci would sell in a flash if I wanted to sell it, I've had people ask me to sell it before completely unsolicited. The reason being it has a 6-speed manual gearbox which makes it much more desirable than the 5-speed sludge-o. So it works both ways. Yes, big executive cars generally aren't purchased by people who give a rat's ass about the driving experience, hence why most of them as well as having a slushy, also feel like a boat to drive! But buy an M3, M5 or 850CSi etc and it'll be a manual or SMG... no torque converter goes near those cars.
The whole auto vs manual thing IMHO boils down to horses for courses.A track day car,a Sunday toy or a tiny hatchback should of course be manual ,but an everyday big engined car like the Omega shuld be automatic,it suits the character of the car.
I guess you also have an opinion on what colour an Omega should be, and what bodystyle a Vectra should be... and what type of radio should be fitted to a Fiat, etc etc. Nothing to do what the owner wants, the type of car dictates everything that should be decided about it ::)
Of course ,if you actually relish changing gear ,why not go the whole hog and have manual window winders,non-powered steering,no syncromesh,cable brakes ,no heating and an opening windscreen for ventilation!
LMAO... I've heard that one before. So exactly what has opening the window got to do with the driving experience? I guess Colin McRae didn't win his last WRC season cos he was spending too much effort winding the windows up and down, and trying to get the windscreen open while doing 120 MPH!
Oh and I don't know about in your car, but in mine I have to press a button to put the windows down or up! Yes, a complete chore I know... I bet you auto transmission freaks have a modification that lets the car decide when the windows should be down, and does it automatically! Brilliant, another thing you don't have to think about, nor move your hand off the donut you're about to take a bite from! Just drive along, and every now and then the electronics open all the windows and sunroof, then close them again a bit later. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I used to drive from Blackpool to Bristol and back in a day to pick up my Daughter, I have done this journey in manual and auto cars. when the traffic is free flowing it's ok in either but as soon as you hit a slow to stationary piece of traffic (which happened on most of these journeys) I was always happier and more comfortable in the auto.
If I fancied a bit of aggresive/quick driving generally getting to the motorway I always found a manual more engaging and entertaining.
i think there are merits for each type of gearbox depending on what sort of driving you are doing. if I were running two cars I would have a big comfortable auto(omega) for the motorway runs, and sporty little manual number for when I fancied a good thrash.
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The anti-auto/I want to be in control brigade will never change their view - complete obsession with manual gearboxes.
The anti-manual crew will never change their view - complete obession with exerting as little effort as possible, no interest in enjoying the driving experience. Most of them would have a pair of escalators in their house too given the option, what a chore having to walk up stairs! ::)
Not quite! It really depends on the car. When I was younger my Dad had auto's ... still does and I was happy to get back in my manual. But now having had an auto for 15 years or so I wouldn't choose to drive a manual on a daily basis. However if I was to buy a toy for summers days eg Griffith 500 I'd want a manual.
My brother had a tiptronic FTO and then bought a manual Honda (Omega sized - can't remember model) and thought he'd be happy to waddle a gear lever about. Within a month or 2 he couldn't wait to get another auto.
I used to find I ran out of hands in a manual - it's a lot easier to set off and light a cig (I've since reformed) & put your seat belt on at the same time with an auto! :o
....no interest in enjoying the driving experience ....
That's cos you never know what the next thing to break is on your Omega! :-?
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You're right about spec affecting values of executive cars,Andy B,a manual S class Merc or 7series BMW is virtually unsellable as a used vehicle.
My 840Ci would sell in a flash if I wanted to sell it, I've had people ask me to sell it before completely unsolicited. The reason being it has a 6-speed manual gearbox which makes it much more desirable than the 5-speed sludge-o. So it works both ways. Yes, big executive cars generally aren't purchased by people who give a rat's ass about the driving experience, hence why most of them as well as having a slushy, also feel like a boat to drive! But buy an M3, M5 or 850CSi etc and it'll be a manual or SMG... no torque converter goes near those cars.
The whole auto vs manual thing IMHO boils down to horses for courses.A track day car,a Sunday toy or a tiny hatchback should of course be manual ,but an everyday big engined car like the Omega shuld be automatic,it suits the character of the car.
I guess you also have an opinion on what colour an Omega should be, and what bodystyle a Vectra should be... and what type of radio should be fitted to a Fiat, etc etc. Nothing to do what the owner wants, the type of car dictates everything that should be decided about it ::)
Of course ,if you actually relish changing gear ,why not go the whole hog and have manual window winders,non-powered steering,no syncromesh,cable brakes ,no heating and an opening windscreen for ventilation!
LMAO... I've heard that one before. So exactly what has opening the window got to do with the driving experience? I guess Colin McRae didn't win his last WRC season cos he was spending too much effort winding the windows up and down, and trying to get the windscreen open while doing 120 MPH!
Oh and I don't know about in your car, but in mine I have to press a button to put the windows down or up! Yes, a complete chore I know... I bet you auto transmission freaks have a modification that lets the car decide when the windows should be down, and does it automatically! Brilliant, another thing you don't have to think about, nor move your hand off the donut you're about to take a bite from! Just drive along, and every now and then the electronics open all the windows and sunroof, then close them again a bit later. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Ok now here is the point
You live in Scotland and have lots of nice driving roads and never get stuck in jams
We get stuck in jams!
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Ok now here is the point
You live in Scotland and have lots of nice driving roads and never get stuck in jams
We get stuck in jams!
If only! I am currently commuting to Edinburgh from the west coast each day, 150 miles in total along the M8. That includes the Kingston Bridge, which is (allegedly) the busiest in Europe. Usually I time it right and miss the worst of it, but I do spend time sitting in traffic. The fact is though, it's the impatience that gets me way before I get fed up changing gear, so being manual doesn't really make any difference to me in traffic. Usually the traffic doesn't stop dead so you don't have to shift much if you don't want to, 2nd gear will go down to 5 MPH and up to 60 MPH so that covers 90% of the time in slow traffic (personally I do still shift up and down as speed changes but that's because it doesn't bother me).
I was in San Francisco a few weeks back for 2 weeks and hired a Mustang convertible, needless to say it was auto cos there are so many Americans who can barely drive at all, let alone drive manuals, that the mainstream rental companies don't rent out manuals. I got caught in a really bad jam on the freeway when driving to Yosemite, and to be honest the fact the car was an auto didn't make it any less of a nightmare... I was just totally p155ed at being stuck going nowhere fast. And of course when I got onto some really twisty roads nearer Yosemite (it's very hilly) that gearbox was a nightmare.
Horses for courses... I hate driving autos (including tiptronic and all that crap), and clutching and changing gear isn't the least bit of a hindrance to me, it's as much part of driving as steering. If I'm tired enough that I can't be bothered changing gear, then I'm also tired enough to not be bothered driving at all, and will get someone else to do so. I guess I take the driving instinct from my dad, he's obviously a lot older than me, currently drives a BMW 330Ci sport manual (cracking car to drive BTW, even if it does have a bit of an image problem) and has no intention whatsoever of buying an auto, he still enjoys every bit of driving, even though he's not as aggresive as me in his style these days.
On a sidenote, I've never tried an SMG on the road... I'm absolutely sure I'd prefer it over an auto, getting rid of the torque converter with its rubber band effect is a big plus, but no guarantees I'd like the experience of it even though it's technically superior to a manual (same gearbox and clutch as a manual, just hydraulically activated so can shift really quickly and also blips the throttle on downshifts!)
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.... I am currently commuting to Edinburgh .....
Argh! Enidburgh & commute in the same sentance. I used to have to drive (manual Cortina) through most weeks before the A720 had been even thought of. Hour & a half from Rosyth to the top of the A702! Nightmare!
It's best to walk in Edinburg! Or take a bus/taxi along Princes St.
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.... I am currently commuting to Edinburgh .....
Argh! Enidburgh & commute in the same sentance. I used to have to drive (manual Cortina) through most weeks before the A720 had been even thought of. Hour & a half from Rosyth to the top of the A702! Nightmare!
It's best to walk in Edinburg! Or take a bus/taxi along Princes St.
I don't actually commute into the city, that would be insane! Use the park & ride at the bypass, much easier and at £1 each way a bargain, you'd use about a tenner of petrol driving from the bypass to Princes Street in rush hour!
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Ok now here is the point
You live in Scotland and have lots of nice driving roads and never get stuck in jams
We get stuck in jams!
Horses for courses... I hate driving autos (including tiptronic and all that crap), and clutching and changing gear isn't the least bit of a hindrance to me, it's as much part of driving as steering. If I'm tired enough that I can't be bothered changing gear, then I'm also tired enough to not be bothered driving at all, and will get someone else to do so. I guess I take the driving instinct from my dad, he's obviously a lot older than me, currently drives a BMW 330Ci sport manual (cracking car to drive BTW, even if it does have a bit of an image problem) and has no intention whatsoever of buying an auto, he still enjoys every bit of driving, even though he's not as aggresive as me in his style these days.
On a sidenote, I've never tried an SMG on the road... I'm absolutely sure I'd prefer it over an auto, getting rid of the torque converter with its rubber band effect is a big plus, but no guarantees I'd like the experience of it even though it's technically superior to a manual (same gearbox and clutch as a manual, just hydraulically activated so can shift really quickly and also blips the throttle on downshifts!)
I am not anti manual just that with todays driving conditions an auto is better for me. I still enjoy driving and to be honest I do get peed off when the car bogs down JUST into second on a steep hill while towing. But constant gear change and clutch operation does get a PITA.
That said a GOOD manual (like Avenger/Sunbeam or RWD Escort) is a pleasure when you are in the mood
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The anti-auto/I want to be in control brigade will never change their view - complete obsession with manual gearboxes.
The anti-manual crew will never change their view - complete obession with exerting as little effort as possible, no interest in enjoying the driving experience. Most of them would have a pair of escalators in their house too given the option, what a chore having to walk up stairs! ::)
I guess that means anyone with a bad back/hip doesn't deserve to drive? ::)
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Lets drop a brick on Paul Ms toe and loan him an auto - he would understand then
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When I had my DTI manual I thought it was great, BUT now owning a 2.6 v6 cdx auto I go against what i said, Now, auto everytime for me, total comfort, sit back and enjoy the grunt of the v6
:y :y :y :y
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Lets drop a brick on Paul Ms toe and loan him an auto - he would understand then
;D ;D ;D
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Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
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The anti-auto/I want to be in control brigade will never change their view - complete obsession with manual gearboxes.
The anti-manual crew will never change their view - complete obession with exerting as little effort as possible, no interest in enjoying the driving experience. Most of them would have a pair of escalators in their house too given the option, what a chore having to walk up stairs! ::)
I guess that means anyone with a bad back/hip doesn't deserve to drive? ::)
You can drive whatever you like, with whatever reasons you choose, whether that be medical or otherwise. The point I was making is that for those of us who are enthusiastic about driving, it is much more rewarding to drive a manual car -- gear selection is as much a part of the driving as steering. Not to mention that the torque converter is one of the most horrid devices you can have on your car in terms of fine throttle control, it's akin to having about 30 degrees of movement in the steering wheel before the car actually starts to turn!
Each to their own, if anyone wants to drive an auto that's fine. Just don't pretend that it has no effect on the car's control, or that it's "always in the right gear" when it has no idea of the road ahead, etc. If you're car is simply about getting from A to B as effortlessly as possible that's fine, mine is about getting from A to B and having some fun along the way :y
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Lets drop a brick on Paul Ms toe and loan him an auto - he would understand then
I'd just take a taxi.... and charge it to the insurance claim :P
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Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
And Americans ;)
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Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
And Americans ;)
I thought that you would like Americans, what with your absolute ideas of right and wrong and he!! with anyone who disagrees. ::)
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Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
And Americans ;)
I thought that you would like Americans, what with your absolute ideas of right and wrong and he!! with anyone who disagrees. ::)
PMSL ;D
PaulM is absolutely right, manual will give more control. The newer firmwares are much better, but still not up to a decent brain (though better than the brain of the chav I was following home yesterday - silly arse had no idea how to set up for corners)
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Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
And Americans ;)
I thought that you would like Americans, what with your absolute ideas of right and wrong and he!! with anyone who disagrees. ::)
PMSL ;D
PaulM is absolutely right, manual will give more control. The newer firmwares are much better, but still not up to a decent brain (though better than the brain of the chav I was following home yesterday - silly arse had no idea how to set up for corners)
I'd rather have a manual for when I want to drive, and an automatic for when I have to drive. These days I don't drive because I want to very often. >:(
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Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
And Americans ;)
I thought that you would like Americans, what with your absolute ideas of right and wrong and he!! with anyone who disagrees. ::)
PMSL ;D
PaulM is absolutely right, manual will give more control. The newer firmwares are much better, but still not up to a decent brain (though better than the brain of the chav I was following home yesterday - silly arse had no idea how to set up for corners)
I'd rather have a manual for when I want to drive, and an automatic for when I have to drive. These days I don't drive because I want to very often. >:(
My sentiments exactly - though when we were PaulM's age, we probably drove more for fun anyway...
-
Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
And Americans ;)
I thought that you would like Americans, what with your absolute ideas of right and wrong and he!! with anyone who disagrees. ::)
PMSL ;D
PaulM is absolutely right, manual will give more control. The newer firmwares are much better, but still not up to a decent brain (though better than the brain of the chav I was following home yesterday - silly arse had no idea how to set up for corners)
I'd rather have a manual for when I want to drive, and an automatic for when I have to drive. These days I don't drive because I want to very often. >:(
My sentiments exactly - though when we were PaulM's age, we probably drove more for fun anyway...
I certainly drove more back then. 3,000 miles in 3 days by myself in a manual was feasible. This summer I did 3,000 miles in 3 weeks, mostly in a manual. Feasible, but wouldn't have wanted to do a lot more.
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Wasn't the automatic gearbox invented so women could drive cars too? :-/
And Americans ;)
I thought that you would like Americans, what with your absolute ideas of right and wrong and he!! with anyone who disagrees. ::)
PMSL ;D
PaulM is absolutely right, manual will give more control. The newer firmwares are much better, but still not up to a decent brain (though better than the brain of the chav I was following home yesterday - silly arse had no idea how to set up for corners)
I'd rather have a manual for when I want to drive, and an automatic for when I have to drive. These days I don't drive because I want to very often. >:(
My sentiments exactly - though when we were PaulM's age, we probably drove more for fun anyway...
Same here
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I generally prefer manuals, they do give better all round power on & off response/engine braking etc & are usually cheaper/easier to repair when needed. However there is alot to be said for a big car that you hop in select "D", sit back & relax. Who does'nt love the feel of a good kickdown & they're much easier in traffic.
I'm glad mine's manual but would've still bought it if was auto, it's ok in a big car.
I'm not one to sit on the fence but i think either has their merits in a big porky motor! [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]