Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Entwood on 14 October 2007, 16:43:02
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A friend has a W reg 2.5 CDX estate, I've not yet seen the car but by telephone this is the situation...
Symptoms are ... leaking water at a GREAT rate, apparently leaves a slug trail when moving !! Oil in header tank, water on dipstick, mayo on oil filler cap, and when running a "ticking" sound.
I don't know how many miles it has done since the problem started, but I do know his wife drove it home whilst leaking water at a great rate.
Local garage (none-Vauxhall - just a village garage) has diagnosed an irrepairable head gasket failure and quoted £2200 for a new engine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My thoughts are possibly an oil cooler failure ?? and the "ticking" caused by valve lifters with no decent oil in them ??
I'm hoping to get over to him during the week and put a compression tester on it, does anyone have any other thoughts that may help ??
Regards.. Entwood
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edit - how much water on dipstick?
HG failure is rare, but if there's a lot of sludge on the stick then it's possible...
A compression test may not show a HG fail on one of these.
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The head gasket is very unlikly to have failed on the v6 but as james said it could have. i WOULD pressure check the cooling system first to try and find the leak, then drain and flush the system with forte, refill and drain untill you get most of the mayo in the water out, then pressure check again. if you dont see a leak then suspect the oil cooler. the ticking will almost certainly be the valve lifters lacking oil and a system flush and change with filter should cure this. Do these first before you go stripping heads off. There is also no such thing as irripairable head gasket failure. the bloke just didnt know how to do it, or what was wrong.
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Either that, or couldn't be arsed to fix it, hence over pricing.....
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...... the bloke just didnt know how to do it, or what was wrong.
Or didn't want to do it. When the DIS & cranck sensor packed up on my car I asked for opinions from a few of garages, one even said 'we don't work on the V6 Omegas .... they're too complicated' :o :-? :-?
(James .....is that acase of like minds etc or some other proverb? ::) ::) )
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...... the bloke just didnt know how to do it, or what was wrong.
Or didn't want to do it. When the DIS & cranck sensor packed up on my car I asked for opinions from a few of garages, one even said 'we don't work on the V6 Omegas .... they're too complicated' :o :-? :-?
Before I was competent working on them, I asked one garage for a cambelt change, and was told exactly the same thing.
Too complicated...
Pay peanuts, get monkeys!!
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'we don't work on the V6 Omegas .... they're too complicated'
Read: "I don't work on Omegas cos I'm a total gibbon" Honestly! Its a car, you call yourself a mechanic... >:(
At least he was honest and told you it was beyond his capabilities before he made a mess of it.
Kevin
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Sounds HG to me.
I am guessingm due to coolant leak, they have cooked it, destroying HG and possibly heads...
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Update 1.
Spoke to him a while back ... got him to start it up with full header tank and correct oil level, ran it for 15 minutes whilst telling him do do things ....
"Ticking" noise - loud enough to hear on mobile phone stopped after 90 secs. No sign of any water leak for 5 minutes. Got him to remove header tank cap after 5 minutes, he says there was no pressure in there at all, after 7 minutes the water in the header tank started to "move" - I assume as thermostat opened - at about the same time he said water had started to appear - slowly - from right at the back of the engine.. he was unsure where.
Now the engine started instantly, and sounds like it is running very smoothly, I got him to blip it to about 2500 a couple of times, and by phone it picked up well and no unusual sounds. I don't have any kit to "pressure test" the cooling system.. is there any other way ?
Could the oil/water problem be an on-going one he's never noticed.. seeping oil cooler (still needs changing but not totally fubarred) and he's just had HBV fail on him ?? or am I clutching at straws ??
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Compression test the cylinders.
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Actually, that doesn't sound like HG.
Can you confirm there is defo oil in heade tank?
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Actually, that doesn't sound like HG.
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Agreed. CHG failure would've presurrised the header tank.
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Actually, that doesn't sound like HG.
Can you confirm there is defo oil in heade tank?
Not until I drive over during the week ... I'm going by what I'm being told .. :) I'm really starting to think HBV and "dirty" coolant, and I know the car only does mostly short runs... 20 odd miles am / pm so the mayo/water on dipstick could just be condensation.
Do HBV valves leak at constant rate? or is it dependant on coolant temp/temp selected on heater ?
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Actually, that doesn't sound like HG.
Can you confirm there is defo oil in heade tank?
Not until I drive over during the week ... I'm going by what I'm being told .. :) I'm really starting to think HBV and "dirty" coolant, and I know the car only does mostly short runs... 20 odd miles am / pm so the mayo/water on dipstick could just be condensation.
Do HBV valves leak at constant rate? or is it dependant on coolant temp/temp selected on heater ?
Tends to be dependent on temp in my experience
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Actually, that doesn't sound like HG.
Can you confirm there is defo oil in heade tank?
Not until I drive over during the week ... I'm going by what I'm being told .. :) I'm really starting to think HBV and "dirty" coolant, and I know the car only does mostly short runs... 20 odd miles am / pm so the mayo/water on dipstick could just be condensation.
Do HBV valves leak at constant rate? or is it dependant on coolant temp/temp selected on heater ?
Tends to be dependent on temp in my experience
So the no leaking when cold up to very large leak/coolant level warning when stopped after driving 30 miles to the shops makes sense then. I think I need to see this beast now but an HBV is fast becoming my guess. Methinks I'll print a few pages on "how to change an HBV" ....
:)
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Actually, that doesn't sound like HG.
Can you confirm there is defo oil in heade tank?
Not until I drive over during the week ... I'm going by what I'm being told .. :) I'm really starting to think HBV and "dirty" coolant, and I know the car only does mostly short runs... 20 odd miles am / pm so the mayo/water on dipstick could just be condensation.
Do HBV valves leak at constant rate? or is it dependant on coolant temp/temp selected on heater ?
Tends to be dependent on temp in my experience
So the no leaking when cold up to very large leak/coolant level warning when stopped after driving 30 miles to the shops makes sense then. I think I need to see this beast now but an HBV is fast becoming my guess. Methinks I'll print a few pages on "how to change an HBV" ....
:)
Sorry, I meant dependent on temp setting in the car...
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Just goes to show that the grease monkey at the little garage did not want the job. HBV can dribble coolant one moment but almost dump the lot next. so chances are that it if fubard. A good flush and fresh red vx coolant will no dought return the motor to a happy v6.
:y
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HBV leaks also seem to vary if you have AC on or off. My Elite had a blown HBV when I bought it and I drove 30 miles home with AC off - didn't leak at all.
You said water on the dipstick. Do you (he) mean mayo? (I realise you haven't seen it yet).
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Update #2
Okies .. info I had was wrong .. his old omega ! This one is actually an 02 2.6 !!
I saw the car for about 10 minutes this morning (don't let my boss know about the slight "detour" !!)
Header tank has a VERY small amount of mayo in it, no more than a spoonful sitting on the top of the level sensor.
Oil filler cap totally clean - no mayo at all, dip stick also clear of water .. oil is fairly manky but it is due a service.
His SWMBO had the "Check coolant warning" then drove about 80 miles (!!) but says it never got above 100 degrees.
Started it up .. no odd noises, no pressure in header tank, a little bit of blowing from oil filler cap but nothing drastic, nothing odd from exhaust system, and no leaks from any area I could see. Picks the revs up freely, with no rattles at all other than the "ticking" on initial start which goes after about 1-2 minutes.
I only had a short time to spare so could do little more. Madcowman has now started a flushing regime and called me to say he got a load of cr*p out of it and it now runs cooler than it used to. He is going to flush a few more times and let me know what the level does when he runs it to fully hot. I've told him to watch the level very closely and to look at the back of the engine (HBV area) especially.
Plan is to see if the car is suitable for a 40 mile drive to get it to me. I intend, at the moment, to change the HBV and have a look at the oil cooler if I can. Unless of course things change in the meantime !!
Anything else anyone can think of ???
Regards
Entwood
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His SWMBO had the "Check coolant warning" then drove about 80 miles (!!) but says it never got above 100 degrees.
I sometimes wonder why we have these warning devices on cars. ::)
I think if a warning is ignored for a mile or more the car should stop, refuse to start and, if the driver gets out, lock its' doors and refuse to let them back in until someone rectifies the problem.
;)
Glad it sounds like he's probably got away with it without serious engine damage. Maybe just manky coolant, possibly HBV and possibly the beginnings of oil cooler issues?
Kevin
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His SWMBO had the "Check coolant warning" then drove about 80 miles (!!) but says it never got above 100 degrees.
I sometimes wonder why we have these warning devices on cars. ::)
.. what's the problem? the car was still going wasn't it.. ;D ;)
The HBV is only about 25 quid on TC so given how common a failure they are, worth changing I would say.
Did the coolant look like it had antifreeze in it? If he'd been running it on a weak mixture/pure water - especially if he has been topping up a lot with water for a while, that would eventually see off the oil cooler. (But aren't the oil coolers stainless on the later cars?)
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Remember, low coolant can lead to artifically low coolant reading - so using the gauge as a guide to temp with low coolant is a bad idea.
I would keep a very close eye on coolant, sounds like the beginnings of cooler failure, which would be in line with the obvious poor servicing (going by the 'manky oil').
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Remember, low coolant can lead to artifically low coolant reading - so using the gauge as a guide to temp with low coolant is a bad idea.
I would keep a very close eye on coolant, sounds like the beginnings of cooler failure, which would be in line with the obvious poor servicing (going by the 'manky oil').
Ironcially, this is exactly why you have a low coolant warning. Without one, if you suddenly lost all your coolant the gauge would never get a chance to read hot before it was high and dry.
.. so to ignore the low coolant warning based on the gauge reading.... ::)
I think a "Pull over. You have 20 seconds to comply" warning would be much better. ;)
Kevin