Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: SP_3.2 on 02 October 2007, 16:49:53
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I have been having problems with the EML coming on over the past few months or so.Had it checked over and told that it was one of the the Lamber sensors one after the cat. Had this changed BUT it was not one of Vaux own and the light has been on and off evey 4 weeks or so.
Just this weekend it was back on so changed it for a Vaux one which was almost £100. and after about 20-30 miles of driving EML has gone out.
Can having a not Vaux lamber sensors make that much of a diff.Have any of you had the same kind of problem.
Thank.
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Well all I can say is that my emissions lamp has come on again after about four weeks, Perhaps there is an inherrant weakness with the Vauxhall / GM originals - They all appear to be originals on my car so 60K / 4 Years old.
Unfortunately ours being the 3.2's (not sure if 2.6's are the same) have a slightly different cat & lambda setup to the 3.0 and 2.5's, typical really because you can only seem to source them new.... 4 * sensors at those prices is a lot of money!!!
Unless OEM quality I think i'd steer clear of none genuine lambda sensors.
One thing I do know is that the CAT's are absolutely fine.... at £711 each (genuine VX) I'm glad!
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Hi VXL
Tell me about it that a lot of money. Having 4 of the sensors is a pain the cost is mad i am going to give it a month or so and see how it is hopeful not back on aging Must say the the new GM Original i fitted looked diff to the non original diff head and colure of wires .Dont know if that means much.
Hope yours gets better soon,
if you are like me you could do with out having to spend extra money on the car with chirsmas in a few months. :-[
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Thing is, the codes for mine were both sensors post CAT's..... I don't believe that it's anything to do with the sensors or the CATs (Well I know it's not!) because quite simply for both sides to fail at the same time is highly unlikely.
There is something more common and more central to this fault, something like a wiring issue where the sensors plug into the main loom or poor fuel / air (unlikely though because there are no bad running symptoms or other codes).
If the Emissions Lamp comes on, as long as it's not flashing, I really don't worry too much now!
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It can run perfectly and still have a problem and. In my case the light was coming on regularly with the codes for fuel trim malfunction on both banks. Vx dealer did a lot of investigation ( for which they did not charge me in the end) and suggested that either both cats had gone or the ecu was faulty. After doing a lot of investigation myself I suspected the airflow meter, changed it and the problem has gone. The car was getting a false ready from the maf sensor and was adjusting the mixture to compensate but when it runs out of adjustment it puts the light on.
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Please ignore the typos in the last post. I am sure that you will still understand it.
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http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/diagnosis/diagnostic_index.asp#q16
This made for intresing reading, put up by on of the guys on the forum
as you say unlikly both will fail and as Martbax said it could also be a diff sensor.
Thank guys.
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The clue to all this is that on the later Omega's (Don't know much about the earlier cars setup) there is an Emissions lamp and a seperate Engine Management Lamp. It's the emission lamp that the 3.2's are triggering, not the Engine Management.
The Emissions lamp is the same icon as the Engine management lamp on most other Vauxhalls - the picture of the engine. The Engine management light is the picture of the car with the spanner through it, this can and does confuse most garages, even VX themselves.
If the emissions light flashes you are supposed to only lightly use the throttle because something (contamination probably) is possibly going to damage the CATs. If the light is on permanently then you can drive normally but the emissions system (Ie the CATs and the lamda sensors) thinks the emissions are slightly to high over a period of time, ie. it's reached it's threshold or limits over a period of time.
In my case I had the lamp on continuosly, I had the Emissions checked at an MOT Station and the CAT's are working well within the MOT requirements, infact they are virtually as good as new, all four Lambda sensors were working as they should, the only test that wasn't run was running live data over a period of time to gain a better picture.
I have a theory that the sensors on the 3.2, being a different design to the other V6's are slightly unproven over a long term, I also think the varying prices of petrol is a good indication of different qualities of petrol. The emissions light has only come on again since I started using V power, If I stick to the same brand for a few months I don't think the lamp will return, if I go and put a tank of Tesco cheap 'n' cheerful in I bet it comes back on.
If the engine side of the sytem is at fault (on my car at least) then it's not a fault that the Engine Management is recording, so really all you can do is swap a part every few months to try and solve the problem.....
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Good point sound like we are in the very same boat. This seem to happen with me also, always use V-power was runing low so used supermarket superunlead.Also find it comes on when have been low on petol.I have replaced one on the 02 sensors so will keep an eye on thing and as you say stick to the same petol ie V-power.
I,m also going to try to keep the tank topped up i think by runing low a lot of the muck is getting into the system which would not help things.
By the way how do you find yours runs on V-Power any better or the same?.
Thank Steve. :y
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Me likey the V power!!!!! ;D
However, try not to over use the higher octane 'umph', at that price it needs to be giving me more miles to balance the extra cost out, if it ends up being more expensive overall I will switch to BP or good quality equivalent unleaded.
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Same here . I have found that there is a Shell in barshall common that it good on price 99p but that could change then will have to move to a good unleaded.
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EML Light off again as from last night....
How does this sound..... Change to a different brand (quality) of fuel, Lambda's a bit too sensitive, emissions light on.... 20 or so good starts of the car without code reoccuring = Emissions Lamp extinguished.... ::)
I know on earlier Vauxhalls that if you had 20 or 30 clean starts without any DTC's occuring the Engine Managament lamp would be extinguished, wonder if the Emissions control system is the same?
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HI VXL
sounds right to me that happens to me mine when out after putting in £10 of V -power over the weekend i think that they seem to be Very Very sensitive to quality.And thinking about it from the time the light came on to the time it went out it would have been about 20 starts or so. You could be on to something.
Hope it stays off for you :).Let me know how it goes and i will keep you updated.
Thanks
Steve
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On the way back home last night and was runing low so stopped off to get some petrol put £10 of V-power in and after about 20 miles the emisions light came back on. Now for the pass 3-4 days i have been using Sainsburys Supperunlead. Do you think this can make a diff. Seem to happen when i change from V-power?
I have put £30 of V-power to see if it cleans things up. I think it could be the 02 sensor but i have just replaced a faulty one last weekend.
Any advice guys.
Thanks
Steve
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Hi, This may be completely off the wall but I have a similar problem with my Saab 3.0 Arc which has the similar engine to the earlier Omega's.
On this I have changed both lambda's and also the cat and still have the problem (cat was bust anyway). I think I know what it is because my simple ODBII reader also gives a code for the MAF sensor at the same time (changed that too) but a Tech 2 test doesn't, just the cat inefficiency.
However I noticed that it comes on when on little or no throttle so investigated for air leaks and have tracked one down to the servo which does lose vacuum when the engine is switched off. Got the servo but haven't got around to fitting it yet.
I would suggest putting post MAF sensor air leaks on your list to check as this could be confusing the ECU with it getting different readings from the what it expects, throwing on the EML light.
Hope this is useful.
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Thanks will put that on the growing check list.
:'(
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Has anyone else had a similar problem and if so how did they fix it?
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I was thinking perhaps knock sensor fault as well.... never really heard of on an Omega though....
We could always get a shared MAF and trial it on each car for a few months!!! Need about five others to chip in as well!!!!
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I have also just seen this and made me think about the fuel side of things again.
Silicon - blowing a head gasket can allow silicon to enter the exhaust and contaminate the sensor. Some fuels are also prone to high levels of SiO2 (Silicon Dioxide) in them and this will poison your catalytic convertor too. We recommend only filling your car up at branded filling stations (eg. BP, Shell), and not at supermarket filling stations, which source petrol from less advanced refineries. Other contaminants exist in cheaper fuels, and you are doing many parts of your engine a favour by not using them.
from http://www.lambdapower.co.uk/diagnosis/diagnostic_index.asp#q16
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I was thinking perhaps knock sensor fault as well.... never really heard of on an Omega though....
We could always get a shared MAF and trial it on each car for a few months!!! Need about five others to chip in as well!!!!
I think that would be a good move. Can the MAF be cleaned was thinking of trying it over the weekend.
How is yours runing any lights as yet.
I would be up for that.
Thank
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No more Emissions Lamp, don't think there will be until I fill up with something different! Just going to stay on V-Power for the time being and see if it comes on, if it does without changing the fuel supplier then i'm going to look at the MAF idea, if it doesn't then it has to be something about fuel and how the ECU adjusts the mixture to match up..... that to me is knock sensor(s)
One thing that is worth checking on yours is the brake vacuum pipe that goes from the servo, around the back of the engine and to the R/H side of the plenum, on that right hand side, where the pipe runs by the air conditioning pipe, is it touching / rubbing at all.
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Can the MAF be cleaned was thinking of trying it over the weekend.
I think it is a very fragile device, have a read up of MDTMS guide to it on here
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1155126172
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Good point i will have a check of that after work. Would that cause the light to come on?
Hope yours stay,s off .I am going to also stick to V-power now and see if that clears things up any.
Thank for the help.
ps Are the Knock sensors alot or hard to fit?
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I was thinking perhaps knock sensor fault as well.... never really heard of on an Omega though....
We could always get a shared MAF and trial it on each car for a few months!!! Need about five others to chip in as well!!!!
I think that would be a good move. Can the MAF be cleaned was thinking of trying it over the weekend.
How is yours runing any lights as yet.
I would be up for that.
Thank
There was a post some weeks ago regarding cleaning the MAF. It linked to a US website I believe. I have a 2001 2.2 and the emissions light came on and gradually became more frequent. This proved to be the MAF.
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I am going to also stick to V-power now and see if that clears things up any.
ps Are the Knock sensors alot or hard to fit?
Bet it does if you have twenty 'clean' starts with no error code!
Don't know on knock sesnors, but read this:-
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1157560905
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I hope good old v - power does the job them.
or as SIR say,s to could be a new MAF :'(
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Just a bit of an update on the way back on Friday from work got home and swiched car off and back on againg and no Emission Lamp :D.Ihave stayed with V-power put £30 IN last night hopfuly this will keep it off.
Thanks
Steve
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Just to say my 3.2 put its' emissions lamp on in February when we had a bout of fuel contaminated with silicone. I had it reset and it hasn't recurred.
I would tend to suspect poor quality fuel if it keeps coming on and appears to be fuel related, but it may be related to other problems which affect fuel mixture such as restrictions in the fuel supply and air leaks in the induction system, clogged air filter or a MAF problem. I wouldn't say a knock sensor is a likely cause.
The post-cat Lambda sensors are in a cooler part of the exhaust than the pre-cat sensors so this may well mean they're more prone to contamination, or at least any contamination doesn't immediately burn off in the hot exhaust gases.
Kevin
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Good point Kevin Going to stick with V-power had the fule filler chaged a few months ago but thinking of checking my air filter as i have a tig panle one fitted just to check that it is not playing around with the MAF. The thing is i have used it and keep it clean for the past 2 years no prob,s :-?
On well it never dull which you have an Omega.
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If the filter needs to be oiled, use the oil very sparingly as it can contaminate the MAF sensor.
Kevin
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Hi I have made a point not to re oil as i was told that this can cause probs with the MAF just left it as it is.Will give a check this week end.
Thanks
Steve.
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Ive filled up the 3.2 at Sainburys today for my weekly jaunt to Durham so lets see if the light comes on.
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Have a good trip hope that it does not. How do you find the 3.2 have you had it long?.Seems to be a few 3.2 on the Forum. :)
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I can't belive how quick it is and its quite economical as well, considering :y
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That is true have you used V-power in it.Seem to help mine a bit PLUS it seem to be the only thing that keep,s that light off. :)
Have you had to do much work on yours as yet.
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That is true have you used V-power in it.Seem to help mine a bit PLUS it seem to be the only thing that keep,s that light off. :)
Have you had to do much work on yours as yet.
I bought it with a busted gearbox so ive replaced that and as a precaution I did the breathers, cam cover gaskets and an oil change. I want to keep it but the wife is insisting on me selling it :(
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As said before, I reckon if you stick with one fuel for a while the Emissions Control systems will sort themselves out, I think the system is VERY sensitive and until it's run on a different fuel for a reasonable mileage it's not entirely happy. the reason why the lamp stays on is because you haven't restarted the car 20 times to clear it (ie if you reset the code with TechII the day after I bet it wouldn't come back on), it's the 20 starts that is fooling us into thinking there is 'more' of a problem.
I'm currently running on V-Power, after a couple more tankfuls, if the lamp doesn't come back on i'm going to use BP / Shell normal unleaded, I'm guessing the light will come back on but once settled if I stick to the above it won't come back on.
Well that's my theory anyhow.
Question is... why has the emissions control system become so sensitive and why only on a few 3.2's
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I know the 3.2 has 4 Lambda sensors but the 3.0 has 2 so dont know if that will make a difference :-/
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I know the 3.2 has 4 Lambda sensors but the 3.0 has 2 so dont know if that will make a difference :-/
It does indeed, we've had two threads on this subject and as you say, the issue seems to be with the 3.2 cars with the later lambda / emissions set up.
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I think that it is the 2 after the cat i belive that they are a diff set up to the the ones pre cat. I think that they have a VERY VERY fine tolarance to changes. So hopefully sticking to the same petrol will keep them happy withing there tolarance range.
It,s kind of nice in a way to know that i am not the only one that have had this prob.
GOT to love the old 3.2 ::)
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It,s kind of nice in a way to know that i am not the only one that have had this prob.
Ditto!
I could go with the earlier theory about contamination of the sensors and the fact that the post CAT sensors are not getting hot enough to 'burn' this contamination off.
Tempted to buy two new post CAT sensors when the finances allow.... also they are the easiest ones to change!
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Yes not cheep £100 + i think. The point abut the heating is a good one becuse i was told that the prob with the non Vaux 02 i had was the heating part of the system. As you say easy to fit aswell. I did mine a few weeks ago :y.Also opened the car up on the motorway to get it over 4,000 revs with the sports button on just for a sec as i could see the petrol needle decreasing almost as fast as i could see the speed increasing.
Just hope it stays off now MOT next month. :(
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Ran out of Petrol a few days ago. Was looking at a long walk to get some then i recaled that i had some in a container in the boot.The thing is this was just unleaded for a Jet staion and i have been trying to run the car on V-power from shell as this is the only thing that keeps the Emissions light off. Put what i had in the can in the car which just got me to the Shell staion where i put in £20 of V-Power.
The next day the Emiss light came back on and has been on over the weekend :'(. Just thinking if you think using the petrol in the container which as about 6 weeks old would have put on the light. The 02 sensors on the 3.2 seem to have a very fine tolarnce to changes. I am going to run the car and see if it goes out over the next few day with the V-power as this is what happend last time.
What do you guys think.
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Your car seems more sensitive than most. Only time I've ever had a problem was on the contaminated fuel we had in February and it has been clear since. It's had all sorts of fuel through it since then, all 95 RON, it's been down to Italy and back without a murmur and had the odd tank from a supermarket when I've been desperate :o
I wonder if changing between Super and Regular unleaded is the problem in your case?
6 Week old fuel shouldn't have gone bad if it had been in a sealed can.
Kevin
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It,s kind of nice in a way to know that i am not the only one that have had this prob.
Ditto!
I could go with the earlier theory about contamination of the sensors and the fact that the post CAT sensors are not getting hot enough to 'burn' this contamination off.
Tempted to buy two new post CAT sensors when the finances allow.... also they are the easiest ones to change!
Take them out and clean them in an ultrasonic bath (jewellery cleaner).....
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Take them out and clean them in an ultrasonic bath (jewellery cleaner).....
Yeh I read that on here recently!
I've just gone back from V power to BP regular and no lamp yet (It's been 5 days). I really want to get some live data from the sensors / ECU over a period of time to fathom out what's going on. If I could definatively prove that the rear sensors are at fault or misreading i'd happily buy two new sensors.
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I'm currently running on V-Power, after a couple more tankfuls, if the lamp doesn't come back on i'm going to use BP / Shell normal unleaded, I'm guessing the light will come back on but once settled if I stick to the above it won't come back on.
Well that's my theory anyhow.
Question is... why has the emissions control system become so sensitive and why only on a few 3.2's
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Well just when i was giving up hope that the light would go out.Started the car last night after getting home and no light. No light on today so will just hope it stay,s off and keep it topped up with Shell V-power. :y.
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Ive filled up a couple of times at Sainsburys and upto now (touching wood) (and NO not Kevin ;D) the lights not come on