Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: AndersH on 01 November 2007, 13:58:55
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Having lots of problems with my gearbox so took it to a specialist who said there were no error codes but drove it around and encountered the same problems as me. To get a reconditioned box in there would cost me £1600 :o Or they would fit one if I supplied for around £300 Looks like I may have to get rid of the car although I won't be able to sell with the box in the state it's in. What would others do in this situation? Find another gearbox and hope it's ok and spend £300 fitting?
:( :( :( :( :( :'(
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Never done one myself but have been told not to bad a job to put a Auto box in if you could drop on a second hand one from a breakers:-?
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Still way beyond me though!
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Still way beyond me though!
No-one near you on the forum who could lend a hand?
Maybe worth PM ing JamesV6 he does mobile repairs I think :y
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Almost got James to look at my car before but for whatever reason never happened - If anyone could help for some cash it would be much appreciated! :y
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Worth PM'ing him again I believe he has been busy :-?
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What problems are you having?
I know people on here have in the past reported problems with auto boxes, which were rectified by a simple fluid and filter change.
Anyone?
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What are the symptoms?
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Ok, if I'm accelerating to 30 then take my foot off the accelerator, after I've slowed down a bit I then put my foot back on and the car has put itself back into 1st again. If I hold the acceleration when it's like this it will eventually show a warning light and go into limp mode. When it's like this, the only way I've found to get out of it is to stick it in sport mode, it will then change up with a thump after a few seconds. It used to do this once every couple of weeks or so, but now does it at least once on every journey. Seems worse when cold and I don't seem to have problems at higher speeds. It's not happy!
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When you put your foot back down, does it act as if there is no gear selected and the revs rise before clunking into third, putting the fault message up and carrying on?
If so, its the classic thrust washer failure symptoms.
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Yep that could be it, I said it goes into first but thinking about it, it could well be like there's no gear at all - I tend not to push it much when it's like that! So if this thrust washer is fixable, is ther anyone who could help me?! By the way, they read the gearbox codes again to make sure and an error code did come up second time - P0730 Incorrect Gear Ratio...
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Yep that could be it, I said it goes into first but thinking about it, it could well be like there's no gear at all - I tend not to push it much when it's like that! So if this thrust washer is fixable, is ther anyone who could help me?! By the way, they read the gearbox codes again to make sure and an error code did come up second time - P0730 Incorrect Gear Ratio...
That error is a standard code, meaning the gearbox is not mechanically doing what the ECU is asking it to.
Thrust washer easy enough - pop off the gearbox, remove bellhousing, throw in near thrust washer, put it all back together and treat it to new fluid.
If it is thrust washer, normally evidence in one of the 2 sumps...
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You make it sound so easy ;D
Would anyone be able to help me with this? Happy to do any grunt work - would travel and pay!!
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You make it sound so easy ;D
Would anyone be able to help me with this? Happy to do any grunt work - would travel and pay!!
The hard part is realigning the box when refitting to engine (lift it up on a jack, but even so, getting the first bolt in is a bugger).
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You make it sound so easy ;D
Would anyone be able to help me with this? Happy to do any grunt work - would travel and pay!!
Yes, our service didn't happen in the end did it, I'm sorry, I was simply too busy to find a free day to get over :'(
I am still extremely busy, but I can send you some dates when I am potentially free. A good day will see the box changed.
I've never changed the thrust washer on it's own, but you can get a good secondhand box for less than £100, so that would be the route I'd take.
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That would be great if you could help me, there's a cheap one on Ebay at the moment but it's 230 miles away... If anyone knows of a cheap one closer???! If you could PM me some dates I'd be more than grateful, thanks again.
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how are you fixed tomorrow,fancy a trip to sunny trowbridge?
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I could do that! do you think you could sort out my existing gearbox or know of one I could swap?
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im working on the basis of fixing your existing box, if it is the thrust washer then i have one in stock.
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An excellent offer from Mr Sassanch.....I would take him up on it.
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That would be perfect as you're not too far away really. If you could PM me any details I'd need I'll take you up on your offer!
Many thanks,
Andy
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About 50 miles up the A350 I seem to recall.
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Not bad off the top of your head! apparently 51 miles from my house to the centre of Trowbridge!
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Any update? Was the box fixed?
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removed original box and checked the thrust washer which turned out to be intact.plan b time,i dismantled and replaced the thrust washer in jamesv6cdx,s old box and fitted that instead.oh dear it was worse than the original,could barely pull itself off the ramp.so you guessed it i had to reassemble the original box and refit it,net result of six and a half hours of labour=zero still sometime this week i will conduct a post mortem of james ar35, fix it, and then there will be a rematch.
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removed original box and checked the thrust washer which turned out to be intact.plan b time,i dismantled and replaced the thrust washer in jamesv6cdx,s old box and fitted that instead.oh dear it was worse than the original,could barely pull itself off the ramp.so you guessed it i had to reassemble the original box and refit it,net result of six and a half hours of labour=zero still sometime this week i will conduct a post mortem of james ar35, fix it, and then there will be a rematch.
:( - a lot of time and effort, but no result.
Still, I have 100% confidence in your abilities to get a box working - esp with all those spares scattered over your floor ;D :y
On the upside, despite the lack of success, I'm sure it was a very enjoyable day :)
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kept me amused i must admit :)
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kept me amused i must admit :)
LOL, never happier than when within the depths of an autobox?
;D
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Thanks ever so much for your help, and was very impressed how calm you were when we realised that the AR35 didn't work and it had to come out again ;D
You are lucky TheBoy apparently the AR35 was earmarked for you?!
So, anybody got a spare gearbox? :P
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Thanks ever so much for your help, and was very impressed how calm you were when we realised that the AR35 didn't work and it had to come out again ;D
You are lucky TheBoy apparently the AR35 was earmarked for you?!
So, anybody got a spare gearbox? :P
Phew!
Mind you, I deserved some luck with that tractor!
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I have the same problem. Any solution yet? I'm trying to get in touch with Sassanach but he's very busy.
My post http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1195475008
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Since putting the gearbox back in with the new fluid things are much better - there was an almighty clunk which shook the car on the way back from Sasanach's place and the next day it slipped into neutral a couple of times but since then, for the last 2.5 weeks I haven't had a single problem with it, infact it seems better than it's ever been! whereas before it would happen every time I used the car. Don't really know what to conclude from that I'm afraid, just that I'm glad it's working better now!
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So, you still have your old gerbox in and nothing was changed except oil and everything is ok now? + whole afternoow of work... ;) I was told that it might cost £1000 to refurbish my gearbox so even if there is just a few things to be done, I will pay minimum of £500. I will try to check oil level today (I changed the oil when the engine was cold). Second thing is that oil wasnt change since new, I add 5.5l and ca 3-3.5l was left in the gearbox (which is in the system, not in the oil lump). Is there any way to get out that 3.5l of oil from the gearbox apart from "active oil change"?
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I checked oil level in my gearbox. It was even to much oil, so some of it came out to container.
Oil was changed 2 weeks ago!! It looks like I need to change it ONCE AGAIN.
Look what I found and compare with new Dexron III. Old one is more...abrasive, new is more... oily and slippery (don't know it that's a good word)
(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6339/p1030975yk3.th.jpg) (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1030975yk3.jpg)
(http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/120/p1030968sf6.th.jpg) (http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1030968sf6.jpg)
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9653/p1030969wr3.th.jpg) (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1030969wr3.jpg)
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/7369/p1030972tm3.th.jpg) (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1030972tm3.jpg)
(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9572/p1030974fa0.th.jpg) (http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p1030974fa0.jpg)
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Yes, looks like its burning it, probably due to the slip in the box.
As the oil breaks down, it will increase in volume.
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How does it work? When the gearbox starts slipping, sensors will immediately fill find out that the vehicle speed, engine speed and selected gear don't match,. The gearbox then will switch to "limp" mode and go to "N" (revs will go up, and car will not accelerate). After 30 seconds I will get a error message. Am I right?
If yes, then it happened for 3 times since I've changed oil and only for few seconds. Is it possible that whole oil might be burnt from that? If the gearbox is broken, then the old oil (which wasn't changed from new) should be more like grease. It was darker than this one but wasn't that bad. Isn't it so dark because, there was still ca 3l of old oil left in the gearbox and new oil starts to clean the gearbox now?
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How does it work? When the gearbox starts slipping, sensors will immediately fill find out that the vehicle speed, engine speed and selected gear don't match,. The gearbox then will switch to "limp" mode and go to "N" (revs will go up, and car will not accelerate). After 30 seconds I will get a error message. Am I right?
If yes, then it happened for 3 times since I've changed oil and only for few seconds. Is it possible that whole oil might be burnt from that? If the gearbox is broken, then the old oil (which wasn't changed from new) should be more like grease. It was darker than this one but wasn't that bad. Isn't it so dark because, there was still ca 3l of old oil left in the gearbox and new oil starts to clean the gearbox now?
No, its not that instant - it can't be due to wat TC works. Hence there can be a lot of slip[ before it limps.
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I don't have TC. (Traction Control)
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I don't have TC. (Traction Control)
TC = Torque Converter
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So when do you know that it's slipping? When you feel the result ("limp" mode, "N") or the reason (gear slipping)?
How can I check the reason? Car is accelerating, revs are going up with speed. If it would slip all the time together with "TC" then revs would easily go up and the vehicle wouldn't accelerate.
What gearboxes were installed in Omegas and which I should be looking for?
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The thrust washer failure results in a low oil pressure.
As a result the box fails to shift occasionaly, the output shaft sensor detects this and throws a fault code (normaly related to the fact that the output speed does not match that expected based on engine RPM, TC slip and gear) and the box drops into limp mode with a clunk.
The colour of your oil is probabaly due to the remaining 3 litres mixing with the new stuff......its pretty much impossible to change the oil totaly without rmoving the box and even then, removing it from the TC wont be easy.
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Ow yes, the gearbox es installed are:
AR35 - 3.0
Ar25 - all others
These are otherwise known as the 4L30E Gm box (as used on 5 series BMW's, Isuzus , yank tanks etc)
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Sometimes, after accelerating, when I release the pedal, revs are going down (to ca 1000) like in "N" mode, and when I press it aging, revs are going up and car is accelerating. Sometimes, when I release the pedal, revs are going down slowly with the speed (like still on gear) and vehicle is slowing. And now I remember when it happens - when I accelerate up to ca 30mile/h and release the throttle, then revs are going down and when I press it again it stays in "N" mode, especially when it's on cruise control. Same thing happens with that clunk, same situation, just I don’t press the throttle again and when the car is moving I can feel the clunk. I thought about it and it really looks like the gearbox is loosing pressure and goes crazy.
I read this post: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1183142571 It looks easy, but I'm sure it's not.
So when looking for a gearbox, I can take any, apart from 3.0 one.
Does the green field has to be machined (flattened)?
(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/4584/663148122c1bb15a28bboa7.th.jpg) (http://img512.imageshack.us/my.php?image=663148122c1bb15a28bboa7.jpg)
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I personaly would go for a 3.0 one as its stronger.....and before fitting replace the thrust washer.
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The thrust washer failure results in a low oil pressure.
As a result the box fails to shift occasionaly, the output shaft sensor detects this and throws a fault code (normaly related to the fact that the output speed does not match that expected based on engine RPM, TC slip and gear) and the box drops into limp mode with a clunk.
The colour of your oil is probabaly due to the remaining 3 litres mixing with the new stuff......its pretty much impossible to change the oil totaly without rmoving the box and even then, removing it from the TC wont be easy.
Not sure I agree on the oil colour being just due mixing with old oil. I had a similar issue with my box, and it turned my nice red atf (done on your drive) to a horrible dark oil within weeks. I know it was still fairly red about a week after we changed my ATF, as I rechecked level.
Also, when it starts to burn it, the volume increases quite a bit.
Now, I'm disagreeing with Marks_DTM_Calib. I'm bracing myself to be 'educated' ::)
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TheBoy - Was you autobox burning oil? What happened to it? Can you please tell us more?
Once again - two weeks to burn 5 liters of oil while it was driving on the same oil for 78k and nothing happened? It should burn it to grease.
The oil level didn't increased. I just add too much of it last time.
I can buy a set of Transtec gaskets and Raybestos clutches. That’s for ca £130. What do you think about these parts? It’s on Polish e-bay.
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I switched to "1" and was driving for a while to find out if there is any slip. Revs were relevant to speed.
I also counted (driving on "3") how many times revs will drop. It was 3 times. Don't know if that's ok (1->2, 2->3 and what about third time?).
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I am more convinced that TheBoy was right....unfortunately. Well, I recorded a small video of revs drops when accelerating. Theres up to 4 when driving on "3" so or it's a gearbox slipping or I am really wrong. I dont know if there's any conjunction but after installing the heat shield on my manifold (it was out since i was doing my manifold) I found that the engine temperature was rising too much and even thought it was ca 90 degrees I found the engine very hot.
Suddenly I got more problems with revs. It felt when it;s slipping. The gearbox itself was wary hot and when I checked the oil there was more oil coming out! Like TheBoy said.
I made two videos. Can you please have a look at and tell me if I'm right and my gearbox is really slipping.
Please advise me what to do? Sassanach is away and he wasn't online for almost two weeks. Everyone's going on holiday, and most of the garages wants ca 1000 pound for that...
http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=6062146892747108189
http://video.google.pl/videoplay?docid=7109458115230329748
I found this gearbox: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-omega-automatic-gearbox_W0QQitemZ150187899349QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Buxton? Is there anyone from Buxton?
or this (150 miles away from me as everything cheap) http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VAUXHALL-OMEGA-2-5-Automatic-Gearbox_W0QQitemZ150175974968QQihZ005QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
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I found the gearbox, but was told that this is from 2.5 (dont know if diesel or petrol) and they not sure is it will fit to my engine. Seller told me that it might not fit and I will have to do it on my risk.
So, can you please tell me if I can take the automatic gearbox from any 2.5 any fit it to my 2.0 16V (99)? I cant find any other autobox for that price and with 3 months warranty.
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Its an AR25 on a 2.5 and a 2.0 so should be fine.....
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I am more convinced that TheBoy was right....unfortunately. Well, I recorded a small video of revs drops when accelerating. Theres up to 4 when driving on "3" so or it's a gearbox slipping or I am really wrong.
You will get an extra rev drop in 3rd when the torque converter locks up. It can feel like an extra gear but you'll notice that before this "change" theres some "slip" in the transmission (TC gives a variable ratio) and afterwards it's fixed, like a manual.
Kevin
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Mark - I was told that the bell housing might be diffrent, and Tc is different. They dont have any 2.0 autobox.
Kevin, I was driving on position "3" and I felt revs drop 4 times. Can you have a look on my video and tell me if thats how it should be.
Thanks guys.