Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 24 December 2007, 17:17:51
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Right - I have checked out the ICV and the wiring. The ICV is fine, and I've cleaned it out really well. The wiring is absolutely fine, no breaks/shorts etc can be detected or visually seen.
Since filling up from empty at a different LPG garage tonight it does feel SLIGHTLY better, and hasn't hunted / cut out, yet, on either fuel.
I will say that on petrol / lpg, there is no real noticable difference, the idle feels just ever so slightly lumpy on both... you can feel an intermittent "vibration" through the gear stick when stood ticking over, as if it's almost, but not quite missing a beat.
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm considering possibly ignition components may be worn. I recently put new plugs in, but I'm aware that double electrode plugs are no good for LPG, and that single electrode plugs should be used. I've also read that the plug gap for LPG should be .7mm rather than the factory standard 1.0mm.
I think I might just try avoiding the previous garage for a while, and fill up at the new "flogas" one where I did tonight, and see what changes. It's more expensive, but worth it as a test.
If that brings no joy, I think my next course of action is going to be to strip down the inlet, right down to the platic inlet bridge. Get a different set of trumpets with better mounted LPG nozzles, and build it all up with new genine seals / O rings right up to the plenum, and also do breather seals. Just to totally ensure no air leaks. At the same time, fit some NGK plugs with the appropriate gaps. Expensive option, but I'm not sure what else to do.
Any thoughts / ideas? Am I talking rubbish?
Any help is much welcome
Cheers
J
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Ha, what did i tell ya in your last post.... yep dodgy lpg and i said fill up else where... :y :y :y
Bet it was the cause...
rob
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Oh and a new set of plugs and check all vac hoses are in good nick...
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Right - I have checked out the ICV and the wiring. The ICV is fine, and I've cleaned it out really well. The wiring is absolutely fine, no breaks/shorts etc can be detected or visually seen.
Since filling up from empty at a different LPG garage tonight it does feel SLIGHTLY better, and hasn't hunted / cut out, yet, on either fuel.
I will say that on petrol / lpg, there is no real noticable difference, the idle feels just ever so slightly lumpy on both... you can feel an intermittent "vibration" through the gear stick when stood ticking over, as if it's almost, but not quite missing a beat.
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm considering possibly ignition components may be worn. I recently put new plugs in, but I'm aware that double electrode plugs are no good for LPG, and that single electrode plugs should be used. I've also read that the plug gap for LPG should be .7mm rather than the factory standard 1.0mm.
I think I might just try avoiding the previous garage for a while, and fill up at the new "flogas" one where I did tonight, and see what changes. It's more expensive, but worth it as a test.
If that brings no joy, I think my next course of action is going to be to strip down the inlet, right down to the platic inlet bridge. Get a different set of trumpets with better mounted LPG nozzles, and build it all up with new genine seals / O rings right up to the plenum, and also do breather seals. Just to totally ensure no air leaks. At the same time, fit some NGK plugs with the appropriate gaps. Expensive option, but I'm not sure what else to do.
Any thoughts / ideas? Am I talking rubbish?
Any help is much welcome
Cheers
J
Seriously .. if that is all that is wrong .. is it really worth stripping and rebuilding ?? I know striving for perfection is generally good .. but it can become a bit of a crusade if you are not carefull .... woods and trees come to mind .. :)
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Right - I have checked out the ICV and the wiring. The ICV is fine, and I've cleaned it out really well. The wiring is absolutely fine, no breaks/shorts etc can be detected or visually seen.
Since filling up from empty at a different LPG garage tonight it does feel SLIGHTLY better, and hasn't hunted / cut out, yet, on either fuel.
I will say that on petrol / lpg, there is no real noticable difference, the idle feels just ever so slightly lumpy on both... you can feel an intermittent "vibration" through the gear stick when stood ticking over, as if it's almost, but not quite missing a beat.
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm considering possibly ignition components may be worn. I recently put new plugs in, but I'm aware that double electrode plugs are no good for LPG, and that single electrode plugs should be used. I've also read that the plug gap for LPG should be .7mm rather than the factory standard 1.0mm.
I think I might just try avoiding the previous garage for a while, and fill up at the new "flogas" one where I did tonight, and see what changes. It's more expensive, but worth it as a test.
If that brings no joy, I think my next course of action is going to be to strip down the inlet, right down to the platic inlet bridge. Get a different set of trumpets with better mounted LPG nozzles, and build it all up with new genine seals / O rings right up to the plenum, and also do breather seals. Just to totally ensure no air leaks. At the same time, fit some NGK plugs with the appropriate gaps. Expensive option, but I'm not sure what else to do.
Any thoughts / ideas? Am I talking rubbish?
Any help is much welcome
Cheers
J
similiar symptoms ...mine sometimes do it..seals and o-rings is a better approach I think 'cause I changed my DIS,plugs and all related cables and no change..
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always ran my lpg,d 24v on triple electrode plugs!!!!! BPR6ET NGKs never had a problem with them and they easily did 30,000 between changes in spite of lpg needing biger sparks!!
Omegatoy
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Yes, Entwood, it is worth it. ;)
On the occasional moment when it cuts out approaching a roundabout pulling off the M4 at 70mph, losing PAS and hence effective control over the vehicle is not fun.
So I want it sorted.
And plus, for someone competent with how Omega's bolt together, it is only a couple of hours work at absolute most, to do that job....
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Ha, what did i tell ya in your last post.... yep dodgy lpg and i said fill up else where... :y :y :y
Bet it was the cause...
sorry Mate, I'm not convinced.
While I agree it's a potential variable.. I don't think it's a particularly likely one.
I'd have personally thought if the LPG was dodgy, then it wouldn't run as well as it does up to the red line, and pull like a train etc.
It's like contaminated petrol, it would cause more problems than just hunting at idle.
Either way, it may never be conclusive, because the outside temp is about 5 deg warmer now.
But... I'm not disregarding the idea of the car being unhappy with one type of LPG, so I'm giving it a try :y
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Hmmm, maybe if you do strip the in let side down and fit all new gaskets and seals might help and for the price of plugs i'd chuck some of them into.
Might be a simple air leak on the in let manifold side ? :-?
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im running dual electrodes on mine and so far the seem to be OK.
I don't know if you have tried this but have you tried to put one of the old maps in that you knew worked?
if you are down this way and want to try swapping injectors to eliminate those let me know :y
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im running dual electrodes on mine and so far the seem to be OK.
I don't know if you have tried this but have you tried to put one of the old maps in that you knew worked?
if you are down this way and want to try swapping injectors to eliminate those let me know :y
Cheers Jay...
If It continues, I'll pay you a visit. However today, it changed over at 25deg, and has remained absolutely fine! Didn't cut out once, and didn't falter (apart from a tiny bit until the evap was red hot). So it does seem air temp related....
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Tiz a tricky one this one mate all the faults that u describe point one way then in a blink of an eye it does summit else or starts to work fine,,, gotta be some thing simple mate for sure...
Funny how letting it warm up on fuel first helps ? im lost bud? ::)
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Funny how letting it warm up on fuel first helps ? im lost bud? ::)
Put in a basic way, The LPG evaportator needs heat from the coolant system, before it can effectively use the LPG in the engine. So when the engine is cold, it can't do this - hence v poor running on gas.
This is why you get the engine up to temperature on petrol, to get hot coolant flowing around. Once the engine is up to temp, the evaporator becomes hot - at which point it's OK to flick onto LPG :y
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So could this be case solved then bud ?
Just let her warm up before you swap to gas, or is it still lumpy on petrol ? :y
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Mine's always been just slightly lumpy at idle - otherwise pulls like a train. But that might just be how the car idles and me being over fussy. The gearstick is directly above the gearbox and the engine mounts are quite soft on the Omega. Most FWD cars have linkages or even cables between the gearstick and engine.
I've replaced all the inlet manifold gaskets, plugs, HT leads, DIS pack, cleaned the ICV. I've done the cambelt and timed it up properly, replaced the exhaust. Never had a fault code show either.
I think that leaves me with the following possibilties:
Exhaust manifold gasket leak
Coolant temp sensor
Cam followers not being quite right (slight noise from one or two)
Dirty injector (they don't hold pressure)
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Right - I have checked out the ICV and the wiring. The ICV is fine, and I've cleaned it out really well. The wiring is absolutely fine, no breaks/shorts etc can be detected or visually seen.
Since filling up from empty at a different LPG garage tonight it does feel SLIGHTLY better, and hasn't hunted / cut out, yet, on either fuel.
I will say that on petrol / lpg, there is no real noticable difference, the idle feels just ever so slightly lumpy on both... you can feel an intermittent "vibration" through the gear stick when stood ticking over, as if it's almost, but not quite missing a beat.
I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm considering possibly ignition components may be worn. I recently put new plugs in, but I'm aware that double electrode plugs are no good for LPG, and that single electrode plugs should be used. I've also read that the plug gap for LPG should be .7mm rather than the factory standard 1.0mm.
I think I might just try avoiding the previous garage for a while, and fill up at the new "flogas" one where I did tonight, and see what changes. It's more expensive, but worth it as a test.
If that brings no joy, I think my next course of action is going to be to strip down the inlet, right down to the platic inlet bridge. Get a different set of trumpets with better mounted LPG nozzles, and build it all up with new genine seals / O rings right up to the plenum, and also do breather seals. Just to totally ensure no air leaks. At the same time, fit some NGK plugs with the appropriate gaps. Expensive option, but I'm not sure what else to do.
Any thoughts / ideas? Am I talking rubbish?
Any help is much welcome
Cheers
J
Ive got dual electrode plugs in my Omega, always have fitted them. My VeccyC had quad ones fitted. tho i changed them to dual ones, didnt seem to make any difference to it.
I dont think single/dual ones make much difference..Mark has suggested quad plugs might shield the lpg from the spark. If you fit single electrodes ones, expect to change em twice as often, plus plug gap should be increased slightly to get a bigger spark not a smaller one.
Tho as Kevin mentioned in another thread if your dis pack is getting 'tired' increasing the plug gap might cause more missing, but if its giving a strong output, a bigger spark is what you need :y