Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Ross on 08 January 2008, 00:09:08
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I have bought a chip set off eBay for about 60 pounds. The seller says it will give my omega 2.5TD an extra 35 bhp on top of the stranded 130 bhp. I have found a mechanic to install them. Has anyone done this before? Could it damage my engine? What would be the best thing to do?
Ross
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As 2.5 TD is de-tuned, theoriticaly possible..But practically not sure..
Some people here may know about the upgrade chip models and codes..
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Post up a link to the product....
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2.5TD is chippable. not sure of the actual figures, however, if your car is an auto and is on the original AR25 box it'll rip it to shreds due to the extra torque.
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Dos anyone know of someone who has done this before? And how to I upload a picture to show you?
Ross
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He says it will add 170HP and 330NM. Its called X25DT chip. Here is the link to eBay- www.ebay.co.uk/OPEL-VAUXHALL-2-5-TD-X25DT-chip-170HP-330NM-Omega-B
if that doesmt work just type x25dt into the eBay serch.
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page moved..
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Just type x25dt into the serch bar in e-bay and it should be easy to find.
Ross
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(http://i13.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/d0/4b/119b_1.JPG)
(http://i9.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/a1/e4/6647_1.JPG)
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Just checked the feedback page..possibly will work..Lets see What TD experts think.
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I fitted a "Tunit" box to my '94 2.5TD Auto. Took about 20 mins to fit and get it adjusted. That knocked it up by 30bhp. Big difference in performance...'til it blew 3rd gear. Yep, the AR25's don't last long if you increase the ponies, but it sure made me grin...for a day or so !!
If it's a manual...go for it ! :y
Once you stop using the loud peddle so much and drive normally you should also see about a 10% saving on fuel..apparently. I didn't get that far to speak from experience. Put "Tunit Diesel Tuning" in a search engine.
Chipping gives about the same performance gains, works out a fair bit cheaper to buy and fit, but can't be returned to std so easily.
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Its likely it can add that much preformance increase......but I am yet to see a diesel ECU with a socketed EPROM, every one I have done required the old chip de-soldering and a socket fitting.
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Its likely it can add that much preformance increase......but I am yet to see a diesel ECU with a socketed EPROM, every one I have done required the old chip de-soldering and a socket fitting.
So I am assuming that the soldered chips are not SMDs?
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Its likely it can add that much preformance increase......but I am yet to see a diesel ECU with a socketed EPROM, every one I have done required the old chip de-soldering and a socket fitting.
So I am assuming that the soldered chips are not SMDs?
No, through hole....
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That sort of figure is achievable, though I would have gone through a member here, Omegatoy.
I have a chip fitted in mine, and it was soldered, so Mr DTM had to fit a socket for me.
I went for a chip that is the best compromise of power/economy, which should be around BMW spec (140bhp ish). Just for a laugh, I may try a more powerful one soon, simply as it has to be done!
If you have an automatic gearbox, ANY chipping will melt the box unless you have put a strong one in...
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I have got to emit im very intreged. I find the 2.5TD a bit slow and the fuel consumption a bit high, I have even put magnets on the fuel line to save diesel. My cars an auto and it sounds like there are higher risks with autos, But I still would like to see the difference. Can anyone recommend a tunning company or a good chip set?
Ross
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I have got to emit im very intreged. I find the 2.5TD a bit slow and the fuel consumption a bit high, I have even put magnets on the fuel line to save diesel. My cars an auto and it sounds like there are higher risks with autos, But I still would like to see the difference. Can anyone recommend a tunning company or a good chip set?
Ross
With the std AR25 auto, you can't do anything. The engine is detuned to 250Nm/120bhp to match the gearbox max torque (250Nm). Running the car standard, being right on the limit of what gearbox can take, often causes premature failure of autobox.
To increase power, you need to either:
1) Replace AR25 with AR35 (slightly higher geared, which is apparent around 45-55mph)
2) Convert to manual.
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cars up to P reg all have eprom carriers, after that you have to solder!!
based on the 7 or 8 we have done, only one we couldnt was an Rplate as it was without a carrier its not insurmountable but ,in the time we had we were unable to do it,
Omegatoy
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Can an ECU with surface mounted components be substituted with one that doesn't have surface mounted components?
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I have got to emit im very intreged. I find the 2.5TD a bit slow and the fuel consumption a bit high, I have even put magnets on the fuel line to save diesel. My cars an auto and it sounds like there are higher risks with autos, But I still would like to see the difference. Can anyone recommend a tunning company or a good chip set?
Ross
With the std AR25 auto, you can't do anything. The engine is detuned to 250Nm/120bhp to match the gearbox max torque (250Nm). Running the car standard, being right on the limit of what gearbox can take, often causes premature failure of autobox.
To increase power, you need to either:
1) Replace AR25 with AR35 (slightly higher geared, which is apparent around 45-55mph)
2) Convert to manual.
Is this also true if the 2.5V6 is chipped, as I thought this also used the AR25?
Mine has been chipped (using an M-tek chip) for around 2 yrs now, and have had no problems up to now.....
Stu
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I have got to emit im very intreged. I find the 2.5TD a bit slow and the fuel consumption a bit high, I have even put magnets on the fuel line to save diesel. My cars an auto and it sounds like there are higher risks with autos, But I still would like to see the difference. Can anyone recommend a tunning company or a good chip set?
Ross
With the std AR25 auto, you can't do anything. The engine is detuned to 250Nm/120bhp to match the gearbox max torque (250Nm). Running the car standard, being right on the limit of what gearbox can take, often causes premature failure of autobox.
To increase power, you need to either:
1) Replace AR25 with AR35 (slightly higher geared, which is apparent around 45-55mph)
2) Convert to manual.
Is this also true if the 2.5V6 is chipped, as I thought this also used the AR25?
Mine has been chipped (using an M-tek chip) for around 2 yrs now, and have had no problems up to now.....
Stu
On a normaly aspirated petrol you are unlikely to do much to peek torque by chipping and the petrol has quite a bit less torque than the 250 max of the box.
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I have got to emit im very intreged. I find the 2.5TD a bit slow and the fuel consumption a bit high, I have even put magnets on the fuel line to save diesel. My cars an auto and it sounds like there are higher risks with autos, But I still would like to see the difference. Can anyone recommend a tunning company or a good chip set?
Ross
With the std AR25 auto, you can't do anything. The engine is detuned to 250Nm/120bhp to match the gearbox max torque (250Nm). Running the car standard, being right on the limit of what gearbox can take, often causes premature failure of autobox.
To increase power, you need to either:
1) Replace AR25 with AR35 (slightly higher geared, which is apparent around 45-55mph)
2) Convert to manual.
Is this also true if the 2.5V6 is chipped, as I thought this also used the AR25?
Mine has been chipped (using an M-tek chip) for around 2 yrs now, and have had no problems up to now.....
Stu
On a normaly aspirated petrol you are unlikely to do much to peek torque by chipping and the petrol has quite a bit less torque than the 250 max of the box.
Thanks Mark, thats what I was hoping..... :y
Stu
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Can an ECU with surface mounted components be substituted with one that doesn't have surface mounted components?
They are not surface mounted eproms. Later ones aren't socketed, so you need to unsolder chip, solder in new socket, then fit new chip.
You can not swap the earlier ECU for later one and vice versa
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I have got to emit im very intreged. I find the 2.5TD a bit slow and the fuel consumption a bit high, I have even put magnets on the fuel line to save diesel. My cars an auto and it sounds like there are higher risks with autos, But I still would like to see the difference. Can anyone recommend a tunning company or a good chip set?
Ross
With the std AR25 auto, you can't do anything. The engine is detuned to 250Nm/120bhp to match the gearbox max torque (250Nm). Running the car standard, being right on the limit of what gearbox can take, often causes premature failure of autobox.
To increase power, you need to either:
1) Replace AR25 with AR35 (slightly higher geared, which is apparent around 45-55mph)
2) Convert to manual.
Is this also true if the 2.5V6 is chipped, as I thought this also used the AR25?
Mine has been chipped (using an M-tek chip) for around 2 yrs now, and have had no problems up to now.....
Stu
On a normaly aspirated petrol you are unlikely to do much to peek torque by chipping and the petrol has quite a bit less torque than the 250 max of the box.
yep..according to book 227
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What is an AR25 and a AR35? And where do I buy it from?
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What is an AR25 and a AR35? And where do I buy it from?
AR25 is the name for a type of Automatic gearbox
25 stands for 250Nm of torque it can handle, ie the AR35 can handle 350nm.
You are chipping your TD to produce 300Nm, so if you do chip it, you WILL blow your auto gearbox very quickly.... talking few hundred miles here ;)
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What is an AR25 and a AR35? And where do I buy it from?
AR25 and AR35 are the automatic gearboxes fitted to most Omegas. The AR25 is fitted to all but the 3.0 and 3.2 petrols, which have AR35 fitted.
You can pick them up from scrapyards or people breaking car, but make sure that its a good working one, as they are a bit of a pain to change
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I have had my 2.2DTI chipped from the standard 118bhp and is now in or around 145bhp. Well it was not really chipped, rather remapped. Nice big difference in power and torque but my g/f's 130bhp passat can still blow it out of the water.
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I have had my 2.2DTI chipped from the standard 118bhp and is now in or around 145bhp. Well it was not really chipped, rather remapped. Nice big difference in power and torque but my g/f's 130bhp passat can still blow it out of the water.
I think the references to destroying the AR25 box refer to the BMW 6 cylinder engine rather than your 2.2 GM one
IW
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I have had my 2.2DTI chipped from the standard 118bhp and is now in or around 145bhp. Well it was not really chipped, rather remapped. Nice big difference in power and torque but my g/f's 130bhp passat can still blow it out of the water.
I think the references to destroying the AR25 box refer to the BMW 6 cylinder engine rather than your 2.2 GM one
IW
2.2DTi never had an auto option, they are all manuals, so don't suffer the melting gearbox issue
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Yep I know, just bragging! ;-)
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You say that I would need a AR35 gearbox but does that apply to 2.5 td bmw engine?
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You say that I would need a AR35 gearbox but does that apply to 2.5 td bmw engine?
Yes.
If you chip your BMW 2.5 diesel, it WILL blow your gearbox.
You need an AR35 which is fitted to 3.0 & 3.2 Omega's
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You say that I would need a AR35 gearbox but does that apply to 2.5 td bmw engine?
Yes, this thread is specifically about 2.5TD (crappy BMW unit) and chipping. You most definately do not want to chip a 2.5TD auto without doing something to stop the box melting...
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...2.5TD (crappy BMW unit) ???
If 225k is crappy, with just a change of heater plugs and a water pump in the last 100k...then crappy suits me fine !! ;D
Just don't go boosting it if it has an AR25. Mine lasted about two days. Ok, it had done about 160k, so it would have been tired, but the best AR25 just won't last.
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...2.5TD (crappy BMW unit) ???
If 225k is crappy, with just a change of heater plugs and a water pump in the last 100k...then crappy suits me fine !! ;D
Just don't go boosting it if it has an AR25. Mine lasted about two days. Ok, it had done about 160k, so it would have been tired, but the best AR25 just won't last.
Yes, crappy. 'Designed' by a bloody imbecile.
A bloody pain to do most jobs on, stupid and weak tensioner for belt, a bloody viscous fan, most jobs need the inlet to come off, but BMW 'designed' it so the intake is a pain to remove, prone to silting radiators, water pumps prone to shedding impellors. Oh boy, I could go on all day.
But then, I have become intimately familar with these engines ;D
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if it's that bad, why drive one?
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if it's that bad, why drive one?
I don't think he realised before he bought it! ;)
Kevin
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True, the waterpump did just that on mine.
I suppose it's pretty much a typical example of German over-engineering. When it's right, there's not much to match it...but when it goes wrong...!!
Maybe I've just been very,very...very lucky with both mine. ;)
(Oh Lord...Why do I get the feeling I've just tempted fate ??)
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if it's that bad, why drive one?
I don't think he realised before he bought it! ;)
Kevin
there is a lot of truth in that statement.
Its future depends on the chancellor, and Kevin Wood's availability....
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True, the waterpump did just that on mine.
I suppose it's pretty much a typical example of German over-engineering. When it's right, there's not much to match it...but when it goes wrong...!!
Maybe I've just been very,very...very lucky with both mine. ;)
(Oh Lord...Why do I get the feeling I've just tempted fate ??)
The engine is overrated (due to badge?), and prone to very expensive failures, even in BMW spec. In detuned Omega spec, its awful.
I hate my bloody tractor, yet and endeared to it. Odd really. No idea why I have a secret soft spot for it....
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Its future depends on the chancellor, and Kevin Wood's availability....
:o
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Its future depends on the chancellor, and Kevin Wood's availability....
:o
Oh yes, your name is in the frame :-X
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...2.5TD (crappy BMW unit) ???
If 225k is crappy, with just a change of heater plugs and a water pump in the last 100k...then crappy suits me fine !! ;D
Just don't go boosting it if it has an AR25. Mine lasted about two days. Ok, it had done about 160k, so it would have been tired, but the best AR25 just won't last.
Yes, crappy. 'Designed' by a bloody imbecile.
A bloody pain to do most jobs on, stupid and weak tensioner for belt, a bloody viscous fan, most jobs need the inlet to come off, but BMW 'designed' it so the intake is a pain to remove, prone to silting radiators, water pumps prone to shedding impellors. Oh boy, I could go on all day.
But then, I have become intimately familar with these engines ;D
Is it still in bits in the garage then ::)
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Its future depends on the chancellor, and Kevin Wood's availability....
:o
Oh yes, your name is in the frame :-X
Right. I have a can of petrol and a box of matches. When are you free?
;D
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Its future depends on the chancellor, and Kevin Wood's availability....
:o
Oh yes, your name is in the frame :-X
Right. I have a can of petrol and a box of matches. When are you free?
;D
Don't open the garage, they may take bits off your garage door to mend the tractor! :o
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I have had my 2.2DTI chipped from the standard 118bhp and is now in or around 145bhp. Well it was not really chipped, rather remapped. Nice big difference in power and torque but my g/f's 130bhp passat can still blow it out of the water.
Yer but what's the point of bragging about it, if you girlfiends VW blow's you out of the water ;D ;D, it might have something to do with her car is a 8v engine (better low down torque) than your 16v and it's possible a lot lighter car as well (10 kgs = 1bhp of free power) 8-)
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Yeah I think it down to her having a better engine, lower weight and better turbo.
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Its future depends on the chancellor, and Kevin Wood's availability....
:o
Oh yes, your name is in the frame :-X
Right. I have a can of petrol and a box of matches. When are you free?
;D
Don't open the garage, they may take bits off your garage door to mend the tractor! :o
Nah, that hooligan Omegatoy has been deported ;D
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Don't open the garage, they may take bits off your garage door to mend the tractor! :o
Mrs. KW has already almost trashed my electric door opener by driving her MX 5 into it >:(
If they look in my garage they'll find a sack of coal and some logs - so maybe it could also be upgraded to a cleaner fuel while we're thinking about things like LPG! :P
Kevin