Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: edwardmickey on 23 January 2008, 14:37:34
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This morning, I completed a short journey, the CID showed coolant loss.
When I have stopped, I checked and found that the expansion tank was only about 1/3rd full of coolant.
Under the oil cap, I could see a creamy light brown mayonnaise substance :(
There is no oil in the water.
I can see no obvious oil leaks.
Engine runs fine.
Having topped the collant up, it is still losing coolant. I put about 2 litres of water in and it's below 1/3rd again?
A local garage have diagnosed a head gasket problem. They put some kind of glass cylinder over the coolant opening that put some gas expelled through a dark fluid. He claimed that - as it changed to a lighter blue colour, that it was a sure sign that H/G was to blame!
Please tell me that he's wrong!!
Thanks for any help guys :-/
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Mayo under the oil cap is not anything to worry about alone, especially if the car does short trips. Do you see any mayo on the dipstick?
Testing the gas from the expansion tank is normally one of the more conclusive checks for head gasket problems, I', afraid. However, I would still have a very careful check for coolant leaks before condemning it because it's a rare failure.
Check the heater bypass valve for any signs of leakage and also for any signs of water having dripped down the rear of the engine. Oil filter cover plate, coolant bridge, thermostat housing and the coolant transfer pipe at the rear of the engine are the things I'd want to rule out before going any further. Might be worth taking the time to remove the plenum and manifold so that these can be inspected properly.
Does it smell of coolant at all after a run?
Edited to add: Any signs that the coolant has overpressurised and forced its' way out of the expansion tank cap? Any cracks around the expansion cap lid?
Kevin
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Thanks Kevin.
There's no mayo around the dipstick.
It just seems puzzling that, for the first time ever, I've noticed this mayo at the same time as the coolant loss? Is there anything else that could explain this?
I can't see any obvious leak around the HBV or expansion tank!! :-[
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Mayo under the oil filler is a result of moisture that enters the crankcase as blow-by gases which inevitably get past the seals in the engine. They'd normally be removed by the breathers but in colder weather more of them will condense, and also if the breathers are not as efficient as they could be or the engine doesn't frequently get thoroughly warmed up as it would on a long journey. So, quite possible it'd be noticeable this time of year and not present previously.
In addition, a head gasket failure is less likely to lead to coolant getting into the oil because there is a ring of water jacket around each cylinder in this engine, so the only likely failure is from the cylinder into the water jacket.
I would discount the mayo for the moment, and keep an eye on the water situation. The fact that exhaust gases were found in the expansion tank is a concern. Do you see any bubbles rising into the expansion tank when the engine is run at a fast idle?
Kevin
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A compression test will also give idea..But I also dont think for HG failure..
Edit: even a leaky heater matrix can drop the coolant level..
And hard to see traces as its under the plastic cover unless a serious
leak that will make the carpets really wet..
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I would say, from my vast experience of bits falling off, that it's the heater bypass valve or the heater matrix. Without checking the receipt I can't confirm which bit it was or how much it cost.
I had the exact same symptoms and after spending a couple of weeks putting in three or so litres of coolant in I got bored and took it to my ever helpful Vx stealer.
Mr Hagon
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The other possibility is that you could take it for compression test as cem says and better still a leakdown test, but given that the engine is running perfectly I would say that you may not have a sufficiently severe failure for any tests to be conclusive. :-/
That's why I was hoping there would be an obvious water leak somewhere to discount the possibility...
Does it ever struggle to start, or run on 5 cylinders after first starting?
Kevin
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Confirm the following:
Mayo under oil filler cap?
No mayo on dipstick (check just after a run)?
Coolant loss?
No signs of oil in coolant?
If all that is correct, I would suggest just a coolant leak, with the mayo being short runs in the cold weather.
If they detected exhaust fumes in coolant, oh dear :(
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forgot to say the previous owners of my omega sell the car with the fear of HG failure as it was loosing serious amounts of coolant. ;D
turned out to be HBV+oil cooler area+heater matrix
And was oil also in plug wells >:(
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I have the same problem, I had it tested with what sounds like the same instrument as you had, it is a plastic tube with a squeezy pump at the top and 2 cylinders both with blue fluid in?
I think the garage are having you on, because it is only a sign of HG failure when the bottom cylinder turns yellow (not light blue).
My coolant tank is 1/3rd full aswell, and the warning comes on everynow and then, i have been topping it up and again it goes down, but now i've left it, and the level does not go below the mark its at (1/3rd), i think it just settles at this level, dosent like anything more than that, i've just left it how it is now, and keeping an eye on the engine temperature to make sure it dosent get too hot. Its been 3 days and so far so good, no overheating, and no more loss (never goes lower than about a 3rd) so im touching wood!
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Hi, I've got a similar problem on my 3.0 facelift Omega, but I've not lost as much coolent and I don't have mayo on the oil cap, but the coolent level goes down very slowly. I resorted to buying a UV coolent dye from the US to track my leak, so far I've not found any.
I'm beginning to think that it might be the water pump leaking. I'm due my 80k timing belt change so I will find out soon enough when I strip it down and get my UV lump out ::)
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Just had pressure test; it's the HBV :D
Gonna be sorting this out next week. Just looked at the How To Guide!
It seems that even a Muppet like me should be able to fix this (famous last words.....)
I'll let you all know how I get on, thanks for everybodys help :y
(Head Gasket my ar$e!!!!!)
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Just had pressure test; it's the HBV :D
Gonna be sorting this out next week. Just looked at the How To Guide!
It seems that even a Muppet like me should be able to fix this (famous last words.....)
I'll let you all know how I get on, thanks for everybodys help :y
(Head Gasket my ar$e!!!!!)
Good news then :y
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Phew! Stories of 3.2s blowing head gaskets are worrying :-/
;)
Kevin
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Just had pressure test; it's the HBV :D
Gonna be sorting this out next week. Just looked at the How To Guide!
It seems that even a Muppet like me should be able to fix this (famous last words.....)
I'll let you all know how I get on, thanks for everybodys help :y
(Head Gasket my ar$e!!!!!)
Glad you find it :y
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A word of warning to all who have read and responded to this thread.
1) Never top the coolant system up with water only!
2) The chemical coolant system testers which claim to be able to detect head gasket failure are VERY prone to false readings particularly with modern anti freeze.
3) You all know that the V6 head gaskets done tend to go.
What the garage should have done is a pressure test on the cooling system when the engine is cold......and then look for leaks!
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A word of warning to all who have read and responded to this thread.
1) Never top the coolant system up with water only!
2) The chemical coolant system testers which claim to be able to detect head gasket failure are VERY prone to false readings particularly with modern anti freeze.
3) You all know that the V6 head gaskets done tend to go.
What the garage should have done is a pressure test on the cooling system when the engine is cold......and then look for leaks!
the test I had done had nothing to do with coolant, the tube goes in the header tank (but does not get coolant/water in it) and only works on fumes, it has nothing to do with the coolant or water.
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In terms of topping up the coolant I think I've alway just put in coolant and never water. I'm sure the manual says to not dilute it.
I'll have to check to be sure.
Mr Hagon
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Off topic mark, what number is your DTM? Have you put it on the DTM register on clubcalibra.net?
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Off topic mark, what number is your DTM? Have you put it on the DTM register on clubcalibra.net?
This was sold a long time ago, meega's only now ;)
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ah right cheers!
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ah right cheers!
Yes, a white turbo DTM Calibra on an N plate originaly supplied by Steve Thompson Cars of Litchfield.....LONG since sold.
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A word of warning to all who have read and responded to this thread.
1) Never top the coolant system up with water only!
2) The chemical coolant system testers which claim to be able to detect head gasket failure are VERY prone to false readings particularly with modern anti freeze.
3) You all know that the V6 head gaskets done tend to go.
What the garage should have done is a pressure test on the cooling system when the engine is cold......and then look for leaks!
Apart from diluting the fluid - rendering it prone to freezing on cold days, is there any other reason (sorry to be thick :-/)
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More important than preventing it freezing, antifreeze inhibits corrosion in the engine. In a mixed metal engine this is vital.
Kevin
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Exactly as KW says above, corrosion inhibitors. This is vital, even over short periods.
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A word of warning to all who have read and responded to this thread.
1) Never top the coolant system up with water only!
2) The chemical coolant system testers which claim to be able to detect head gasket failure are VERY prone to false readings particularly with modern anti freeze.
3) You all know that the V6 head gaskets done tend to go.
What the garage should have done is a pressure test on the cooling system when the engine is cold......and then look for leaks!
the test I had done had nothing to do with coolant, the tube goes in the header tank (but does not get coolant/water in it) and only works on fumes, it has nothing to do with the coolant or water.
Yes, correct, they do not touch the coolant but, they are not hugely effective at testing because if the coolant is hot you get steam and vapour which corrupt the test.
And its rare for a mechanic to ensure the engine is cold when carrying out such diag work.
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Have managed to replace the HBV today. No more leaks, no more steam, thanks to everyone for their help and advice :)
What's gonna go wrong next? .......
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What's gonna go wrong next? .......
I know you've had the emissions light...
Had the crank sensor yet? :-X
Kevin
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What's gonna go wrong next? .......
I know you've had the emissions light...
Had the crank sensor yet? :-X
Kevin
I hope that's a joke >:(
I do have EML on. TheBoy tech2'd it and we reached an inconclusive verdict.... It then passed MOT with both Cats functioning correctly.
The light then reappeared. I had to disconnect the battery for about 30 mins while I changed some instrument panel bulbs. The light stayed off....... for about 3 days. It's back on now.
When I wear my sunglasses 8-) it's hardly noticable ;D
In all seriousness, it does need sorting as I'm gonna sell up and get a more economical car...
I love this bloody government. "We've got to keep inflation under control by limiting public sector wage increases to under 2%" they say. Then they rob us blind at the petrol stations.... There's another 2p per litre duty increase in April :o :o :o
Petrol price increases are the mother of inflation!! Brown's a robbing w@nker! First, he sells our gold reserve for 10% of its value. Then he freezes pensioners' state pensions. Then he shafts private sector pensions as he raids them for 'investment' leaving them in pieces. Now he's pushing up inflation by keeping fuel duty rises in place while blaming the likes of me for being greedy when I just want to earn the same pay - relatively as I did last year!
I'd love to meet the ugly greasy haired boring gruesome disfunctional control freak down a dark alley one night...... >:( >:(
Have I gone off thread?
[smiley=grin.gif]
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I know, I know ::) Must sort out some LPG kits. They'll shaft us on that eventually, of course, but they've got less of a head start.
.. and Brown defines the word "snake" IMHO. he's looted everything in this country to prop up his famously "good economy", and how that's not his job any more we stand to suffer the consequences.
Anyway, when you say the light has been on do you mean the emissions light? (picture of engine). Mine has been on recently but before I got round to reading the codes it went out again. Came on after I drained the tank to vapours then filled up at a different garage to my normal one. Came on within 1/2 a mile of taking on fuel, and cleared after a week or so.
Having said that, I have seen trouble codes relating to the cat efficiency appear on my car without the light. I think they have to occur with a certain freqency to light the light but are stored regardless. At 60k miles I find it hard to believe there's a real problem and the emissions at MOT were down in the noise.
Mark posted some thoughts about this being due to the pre-cats (which is what are monitored) being a bit marginal on a 3.2 and thus they trip the warning every so often. Because emissions are taken after both cats, the second cat cleans up anything that the pre-cat doesn't, so MOT emissions are never an issue.
Apparently a dose of cataclean helps, so if you are thinking of passing the car on, that might be an idea, followed by a reset of the light. IME, sticking to one brand of fuel helps too. Maybe it allows the long term fuel trim to stabilise.
Kevin
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Thanks for that Kevin.
I'll try the cat cleaner suggestion. Since the Tesco contam fuel problem last February, I've tried sticking with Shell but the fluctuation in prices means I sometimes pop to Tesco!!
Keith
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Hi Keith,
My local Shell is normally the cheapest so I fill up there 9 times out of 10 and have no problems. Maybe it's a coincidence that the light came on the one time I was heading out of town in the other direction and went to Texaco - or maybe fuel quality is an issue. :-/
Kevin
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Yup, try some cataclean first, then we can reset light again.
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Hi Keith,
My local Shell is normally the cheapest so I fill up there 9 times out of 10 and have no problems. Maybe it's a coincidence that the light came on the one time I was heading out of town in the other direction and went to Texaco - or maybe fuel quality is an issue. :-/
Kevin
rather thing. >:( I should have kept quiet. Light came on again yesterday.
Hopefully my ELM cable will arrive soon so I can have a poke around.
Kevin