Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 15:08:36

Title: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 15:08:36
hi Guys,

Just noticed that since i started to change the oil every 200 miles for the past 1k miles that i seem to have taken another oil leak on board  >:(

I changed the cam seals for genuine GM ones last april and it's been ok since then, so i'm a bit grumpy that a leak has returned now i'm doing short oil changes.

I'm not certain that the oil is coming from the cam seals, but being as this is the most common leaking point on the V6 lump i bet a few quid the leak is from the seals.  I don't mind taking the covers off once more as it wasn't too difficult to do the last time... but if it is the seals and i do need to do them i may clean out my lifters too, see below:-

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1163080380

MarkDTM (hi) noticed that i had a slight lifter noise at tickover a few months back so i may as well clean them out too if i'm to do the seals.  But my question is - Do i need to take the cams out to do one lifter, or can i take them out one by one and put them back as i go?

Also the oil leak seem to be at the front (passenger side) of the engine and seems to be near the power steering pump and below.  The sump is covered with oil top and bottom, so i'm not too sure where it's coming from and if it's near the timing belt can i damage the belt at all?

I will take the plenum off next weekend to identify exactly where the leak is coming from, so only then i'll know for sure.

Cheers

Marc
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: kevinv6 on 17 February 2008, 15:41:46
i had lifter problem's after the oil cooler packed up. the only way to get them out is to take the cams out.  send my lifters of to be stripped down and cleaned which cost me 70 quid better then buying a new set for well over a ton  ;D i was quoted £7.50 each one and thats trade price not good once x24
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 15:41:56
Right i've just been out under the hood and noticed that there is a rubber pipe that has torn off (Arrghh)  The pipe comes from a breather box, splits into to smaller pipes like a 'y' shape and connects to pipes 1 + 4 of the plenum.  I'm guessing i disturbed this when doing the HBV a few weeks back...  ::)  The pipe has torn off from where it's clipped onto the box.

Could a tear in this pipe cause an oil leak?  or lead me to think so?

Cheer
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: kevinv6 on 17 February 2008, 15:45:09
you can mix the lifters up there all the same. in fact you can use lifters out of a 16v eco engines
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 15:49:04
Quote
i had lifter problem's after the oil cooler packed up. the only way to get them out is to take the cams out.  send my lifters of to be stripped down and cleaned which cost me 70 quid better then buying a new set for well over a ton  ;D i was quoted £7.50 each one and thats trade price not good once x24

Hi Kev,
I see, i thought as much.   If the seals are not to blame (see my last post) then i would rather leave the lifters, even more so if i need to remove cams, belt etc...  :o

I hope the torn breather pipe is to blame as this is an easy fix.  The kind of fix i like when it's -55 deg's outside.

Cheers
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 February 2008, 19:04:18
Quote
i had lifter problem's after the oil cooler packed up. the only way to get them out is to take the cams out.  send my lifters of to be stripped down and cleaned which cost me 70 quid better then buying a new set for well over a ton  ;D i was quoted £7.50 each one and thats trade price not good once x24

Interesting seeing as the later ones cant be taken apart.....they can be flushed through but, thats something anybody with a vice can do.

Cams have to come out to get to the lifters.

A torn breather might put an oil mist round the back but, also check the power steering pipes for oil and make sure the jubilee clips are nice and tight.

Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 21:30:44
Thinking about it, if the breather at the rear will only spew an oily mist then the oil leak to the front of the engine probably isn't related.  I think i best take a closer look at the power steering equipment.  I must admit that the oil seems quite clean and not at thick as the engine oil...?

On the other hand, if i need to install a new set of cam seals (which were perfectly installed the first time round!) then i may well do the lifters too.  I'm guessing that to get to the lifters i'd need to remove teh following:-

Plenum, Bridge, coil per plug, LPG wiring and gas pipes, trumpets, cam cover, cam belt, cam sprokets, cams and then onto the lifters...  :'(

WOW sounds like a big job.  What do you guys recon it'd take the average job bloggs like me to do?  I'm thinking start sat morning and complete sunday in time for lunch.

Cheers
Marc (spending more time taking care of my car than driving it)
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: tunnie on 17 February 2008, 21:39:48
Quote
Thinking about it, if the breather at the rear will only spew an oily mist then the oil leak to the front of the engine probably isn't related.  I think i best take a closer look at the power steering equipment.  I must admit that the oil seems quite clean and not at thick as the engine oil...?

On the other hand, if i need to install a new set of cam seals (which were perfectly installed the first time round!) then i may well do the lifters too.  I'm guessing that to get to the lifters i'd need to remove teh following:-

Plenum, Bridge, coil per plug, LPG wiring and gas pipes, trumpets, cam cover, cam belt, cam sprokets, cams and then onto the lifters...  :'(

WOW sounds like a big job.  What do you guys recon it'd take the average job bloggs like me to do?  I'm thinking start sat morning and complete sunday in time for lunch.

Cheers
Marc (spending more time taking care of my car than driving it)

For us normal folk who breathe on air, its half a day to strip down to the cams and get the lifters out...

Even I managed to strip down there fairly easily... just out of interest where did you mount the evaporator? if its on the drivers side wing, then getting the aux belt tensionor off is a pain!
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 February 2008, 21:42:07
Quote
Plenum, Bridge, coil per plug, LPG wiring and gas pipes, trumpets, cam cover, cam belt, cam sprokets, cams and then onto the lifters

There you go. It's a little smaller now. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 February 2008, 21:43:35
Ohh, actually, maybe the trumpets will have to come off... :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: tunnie on 17 February 2008, 21:45:15
Quote
Ohh, actually, maybe the trumpets will have to come off... :-/

Kevin

Its easier with them out...
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 22:02:58
Quote
Quote
Thinking about it, if the breather at the rear will only spew an oily mist then the oil leak to the front of the engine probably isn't related.  I think i best take a closer look at the power steering equipment.  I must admit that the oil seems quite clean and not at thick as the engine oil...?

On the other hand, if i need to install a new set of cam seals (which were perfectly installed the first time round!) then i may well do the lifters too.  I'm guessing that to get to the lifters i'd need to remove teh following:-

Plenum, Bridge, coil per plug, LPG wiring and gas pipes, trumpets, cam cover, cam belt, cam sprokets, cams and then onto the lifters...  :'(

WOW sounds like a big job.  What do you guys recon it'd take the average job bloggs like me to do?  I'm thinking start sat morning and complete sunday in time for lunch.

Cheers
Marc (spending more time taking care of my car than driving it)

For us normal folk who breathe on air, its half a day to strip down to the cams and get the lifters out...

Even I managed to strip down there fairly easily... just out of interest where did you mount the evaporator? if its on the drivers side wing, then getting the aux belt tensionor off is a pain!

Evaporator is mounted on the subframe, just behind the drivers fog lamp, to the right of the rad.  There is even a wide hole in the inner wing, so no need to start cutting holes.   I tell you what, i'll take a pic in the morning if i remember and will post up.  This all depends how late i am for work though.  ::)

The LPG examiner passed it and was happy it was strong and safe place to put it.  having seen my omega he went and bought one for himself an Elite few weeks later, so i can only image he put it in the same place when he converted his.  

As for the work i need to do.  If i plan to strip and clean one day and rebuild on a sunday morning i can't go far wrong.  I would try and do it in a day but i hate racing against time to get the job done before dark.
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 22:08:57
Quote
Quote
Ohh, actually, maybe the trumpets will have to come off... :-/

Kevin

Its easier with them out...


I was going to say... I can't even see much past the trumpets, let alone remove the aux and timing belt... oh f****ng hell i've got to remove the belt again :(  I'm not looking forward to that.

Do you know why they call me the cambelt kid?  ;D

Anyway as soon as the outside temp starts to hang about double figures all day i will give it a shot.

Thanks for your input anyway guys...  :)
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 February 2008, 22:13:47
In fact while i have your attention:-

How common is a gunked up lifter(s), i take it this is directly related to the crazy 20k miles service interval from the Vx service book?

i've just done x4 changes in 1k, so that makes the 20k look like engine abuse to me.
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 February 2008, 22:22:30
Lifters are probably the first thing to suffer as a result of dirty oil.

The 10k service interval was too long for an engine with hydraulic lifters, let alone 20k. Several manufacturers went back to bucket and shim solid lifters when service intervals got pushed up to silly mileages, presumably on the basis that they wouldn't need adjustment until the car was out of fleet ownership anyway.

Certainly worth doing regular changes if they're DIY. Could do quite a few for the cost of a tank of petrol after all!

Kevin
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: Matchless on 17 February 2008, 22:39:14
Oil leak..
If the oil is sitting around the sump flange at the front it could be coming from the crankshaft oil seal rather than running down from above.
If you clean and degrease the area you should be able to see where it is coming from. If its not obvious, try dusting some chalk dust around and run then go for a short run...should see trails in the chalk.
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 18 February 2008, 16:48:31
Matchless.... holy sh**********te

That sound like a pig of a job.  The oil does seem to be splashed around the front cambelt cover plate and onto the sump flange.  I really can't see that it's coming from either of the cam seals so the crank oil seal sounds like the one.  Are there any other tell tale signs to a knackered crank seal?

On the other hand:- If the very front of the cam seal, just behind the cam cover plate were to give way, could this dribble down behind the plate and get splashed around the sump?

Cheers
Marc (who wan't to buy my car for free?)
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: tunnie on 18 February 2008, 16:53:08
Quote
Matchless.... holy sh**********te

That sound like a pig of a job.  The oil does seem to be splashed around the front cambelt cover plate and onto the sump flange.  I really can't see that it's coming from either of the cam seals so the crank oil seal sounds like the one.  Are there any other tell tale signs to a knackered crank seal?

On the other hand:- If the very front of the cam seal, just behind the cam cover plate were to give way, could this dribble down behind the plate and get splashed around the sump?

Cheers
Marc (who wan't to buy my car for free?)

Good job Nottingham is so close  ;)
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: Andy B on 18 February 2008, 16:56:06
Quote
......
Cheers
Marc (who wan't to buy my car for free?)

Go on then. It'll be handy for the battery to put on mine!  :y
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 18 February 2008, 20:35:58
LOL...

Just been out in the fer fer freezing cold to investigate this leak.  There is quite a bit of oil around the steering pump housing and more to the left on the sump flange, which runs the whole width of the sump and collects in the channels.  I also noticed that the steering fluid bottle is running quite low on juice, nowhere near the plastic level tester on the cap.  In fact it's so low I am thinking this is the oil I can see on the sump flange....??

As I say the power steering pump, if that's the pump on the bottom right hand corner of the aux belt, seems to have quite a bit of oil around it, so hopefully this is at fault?

I will get some cleaning agents and a few old rags tomorrow so I can clean up the area in question and investigate.
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 February 2008, 21:13:44
PAS pump is the upper of the two pulleys on the RHS as you look at the engine, air con being the lower. However, if the PAS pump has been leaking it could have doused the air con compressor in fluid.

Kevin
Title: Re: Lifter clean/replacemernt and oil leak.
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 18 February 2008, 21:33:29
Quote
PAS pump is the upper of the two pulleys on the RHS as you look at the engine, air con being the lower. However, if the PAS pump has been leaking it could have doused the air con compressor in fluid.

Kevin

Ahh that sounds quite likely.  The AC pump is covered in oil leaking from the PAS pump...  :)  I can live with that!

Interestingly there only seems to be oil on the right hand side of the water pump  fly wheel/cam cover, as if the oil was fired left from the PAS pump.  Also as i already mentioned the PAS fluid is quite low, not even touching the plastick dip stick on the lid!

Cheers
Marc