Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: jerry on 05 March 2008, 12:19:06
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could help me with a couple of queries regarding improving the performance of my CDX 2.5V6? On my previous car, an old 4th gen. Honda Prelude I had a Dastec unichip fitted, which gave me around a 10% bhp gain as well as improved fuel economy once the car had been set up and tuned on a rolling road, a BMC CDA induction kit and Magnecor leads and Denso iridium plugs. When I contacted the tuning shop about fitting a chip to the Omega I was told that the chip wasn't transferable as they weren't universal, which didn't really come as a surprise, but that because it was an automatic and also an older 1998 model, they couldn't fit one anyway.I have no reason to doubt the guy's knowledge, but does anyone know of a similar chip that would work and the approx cost and gains? As for the CDA kit, I still have it as it is still fine to use, but is it worth fitting to the Omega (I'm aware that it'd only give me 4-5bhp at best)? The Magnecor leads and the iridium plugs worked really well on the Prelude, sorting out a lot of the problems and out performing the more expensive Honda leads and Bosch plugs, but how easy are they to fit on the Omega?
thanks, jerry :)
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could help me with a couple of queries regarding improving the performance of my CDX 2.5V6? On my previous car, an old 4th gen. Honda Prelude I had a Dastec unichip fitted, which gave me around a 10% bhp gain as well as improved fuel economy once the car had been set up and tuned on a rolling road, a BMC CDA induction kit and Magnecor leads and Denso iridium plugs. When I contacted the tuning shop about fitting a chip to the Omega I was told that the chip wasn't transferable as they weren't universal, which didn't really come as a surprise, but that because it was an automatic and also an older 1998 model, they couldn't fit one anyway.I have no reason to doubt the guy's knowledge, but does anyone know of a similar chip that would work and the approx cost and gains? As for the CDA kit, I still have it as it is still fine to use, but is it worth fitting to the Omega (I'm aware that it'd only give me 4-5bhp at best)? The Magnecor leads and the iridium plugs worked really well on the Prelude, sorting out a lot of the problems and out performing the more expensive Honda leads and Bosch plugs, but how easy are they to fit on the Omega?
thanks, jerry :)
The best mod is to fit the cams out of a 3.0 engine....gives about 20bhp...
Leads and plug changes will do nowt....
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Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could help me with a couple of queries regarding improving the performance of my CDX 2.5V6? On my previous car, an old 4th gen. Honda Prelude I had a Dastec unichip fitted, which gave me around a 10% bhp gain as well as improved fuel economy once the car had been set up and tuned on a rolling road, a BMC CDA induction kit and Magnecor leads and Denso iridium plugs. When I contacted the tuning shop about fitting a chip to the Omega I was told that the chip wasn't transferable as they weren't universal, which didn't really come as a surprise, but that because it was an automatic and also an older 1998 model, they couldn't fit one anyway.I have no reason to doubt the guy's knowledge, but does anyone know of a similar chip that would work and the approx cost and gains? As for the CDA kit, I still have it as it is still fine to use, but is it worth fitting to the Omega (I'm aware that it'd only give me 4-5bhp at best)? The Magnecor leads and the iridium plugs worked really well on the Prelude, sorting out a lot of the problems and out performing the more expensive Honda leads and Bosch plugs, but how easy are they to fit on the Omega?
thanks, jerry :)
The best mod is to fit the cams out of a 3.0 engine....gives about 20bhp...
Leads and plug changes will do nowt....
Unless the old ones are knack'd
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Think it's fair to say, service the vehicle to tip top performance.... see if it improves.. it may be that the car has been neglected and just needs tlc..
DC
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To be fair, I've only just got the car and made sure that cambelt was changed, oil and filter done as well as a new rocker cover gasket fitted before I bought and the car seems to run fine, I'm just looking to the future really to see what options there are to improve on what I've got without spending the earth. As I'm not very mechanically minded, I guess that's a bit limiting!! An increase of 20bhp by fitting cams from a 3.0l sounds good, but what sort of price would I be looking at and are there any drawbacks to doing this? Fitting a chip, on the face of it seems more straightforward and it worked well on my last car which was an automatic. At the time I was told that ,as it was an autobox, it couldn't be dyno'd as accurately as a manual but I have the comparison graphs to prove that it worked but I keep coming upon sites and posts where they say it can't be done on the Omega autobox. I'm waiting for a response from Dastek to see what they say. :)
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if your cars mileage is high , changing the lambdas and MAF will improve the performance..
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To be fair, I've only just got the car and made sure that cambelt was changed, oil and filter done as well as a new rocker cover gasket fitted before I bought and the car seems to run fine, I'm just looking to the future really to see what options there are to improve on what I've got without spending the earth. As I'm not very mechanically minded, I guess that's a bit limiting!! An increase of 20bhp by fitting cams from a 3.0l sounds good, but what sort of price would I be looking at and are there any drawbacks to doing this? Fitting a chip, on the face of it seems more straightforward and it worked well on my last car which was an automatic. At the time I was told that ,as it was an autobox, it couldn't be dyno'd as accurately as a manual but I have the comparison graphs to prove that it worked but I keep coming upon sites and posts where they say it can't be done on the Omega autobox. I'm waiting for a response from Dastek to see what they say. :)
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About a 100 quid for a set of cams.....and you can get a chip to
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As for dynoing an auto box, once its locked in a cog then whats the big deal.....
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Like I said, I'm not mechanically minded and I don't get that bit either!
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Like I said, I'm not mechanically minded and I don't get that bit either!
Autos are a pain on a rolling road but not impossible. You won't get such an accurate "power at the crank" figure because the coastdown can only be done in "N" and you don't see most of the losses in the gearbox, but rolling road figures are only really useful as a before and after comparison anyway. TBH, unless he's actually going to tweak the map on the rollers and burn you a custom chip I'd say there's little point in using a rolling road except to generate a figure to brag about down the pub.
Cam change is the best route to more power, with a cjhip as well if you feel inclined. Quite an involved job but can be done in a day no problems.
Ignition and induction system are reckoned to be perfectly adequate as standard.
Kevin
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Well, having just spoken to Dastek I'm a bit better informed! Using a Unichip can be done on an auto, it's just that the time to set it up properly on a rolling road is considerably longer as, unlike a manual, you can't just hold it in one gear and rev it up and play around with it to tweak your optimum performance levels without it then changing gear so you have to restart the whole process again. It's the time it takes to get it right that is obviously more costly and therefore puts a lot of tuners off doing autoboxes. Moreover the guy I spoke to has done quite a few V6 Omegas and Vectras and says that top end power increases aren't that great on them, probably only around 5bhp more. The real improvement , perhaps as expected, is in getting more mid-range punch, which would be far more noticeable on a manual than on an auto. I think part of the reason I got such a good increase when I had the Prelude chipped was 1) the vtec actuation point was also lowered ,giving me more mid range punch and 2) the car was quite old and in need of a tuneup in anycase. Oh well, maybe the chipping idea will go out the window for now---but if anyone has any other ideas.....
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From what Mark and Kevin are telling me maybe new cams are the best option , but would I have to change anything else in order to avoid potential problems and I take it that my fuel economy would change a bit for the worse too?
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The 3.0 cams will work with the 2.5 engine management but you'll obviously get more out of them if you chip it too, as the maps in the 2.5 will be to suit the milder cams.
I'd expect the idle quality to degrade a little and perhaps for the fuel consumption to increase a tad.
Obviously, which you're there, you should clean the breathers, change the cam cover gaskets, camshaft oil seals, cam belt and tensioners if it's anywhere near due, as that all has to come off. Probably a good time to change the plugs if they're due too.
Kevin
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The 3.0 cams will work with the 2.5 engine management but you'll obviously get more out of them if you chip it too, as the maps in the 2.5 will be to suit the milder cams.
I'd expect the idle quality to degrade a little and perhaps for the fuel consumption to increase a tad.
Obviously, which you're there, you should clean the breathers, change the cam cover gaskets, camshaft oil seals, cam belt and tensioners if it's anywhere near due, as that all has to come off. Probably a good time to change the plugs if they're due too.
Kevin
Idle seems to be equally as good and fuel economy seems to be down to the right foot!
There is nothing wild about the 3.0 cams!
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The 3.0 cams will work with the 2.5 engine management but you'll obviously get more out of them if you chip it too, as the maps in the 2.5 will be to suit the milder cams.
I'd expect the idle quality to degrade a little and perhaps for the fuel consumption to increase a tad.
Obviously, which you're there, you should clean the breathers, change the cam cover gaskets, camshaft oil seals, cam belt and tensioners if it's anywhere near due, as that all has to come off. Probably a good time to change the plugs if they're due too.
Kevin
Idle seems to be equally as good and fuel economy seems to be down to the right foot!
There is nothing wild about the 3.0 cams!
Thats what I want to hear :y
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Like I said, I'm not mechanically minded and I don't get that bit either!
Autos are a pain on a rolling road but not impossible. You won't get such an accurate "power at the crank" figure because the coastdown can only be done in "N" and you don't see most of the losses in the gearbox, but rolling road figures are only really useful as a before and after comparison anyway. TBH, unless he's actually going to tweak the map on the rollers and burn you a custom chip I'd say there's little point in using a rolling road except to generate a figure to brag about down the pub.
Cam change is the best route to more power, with a cjhip as well if you feel inclined. Quite an involved job but can be done in a day no problems.
Ignition and induction system are reckoned to be perfectly adequate as standard.
Kevin
The coast down is done in the same gear, and it creates extremely high transmission losses, thats the problem, when i went on the rollers with Sir Sideways last year we were both getting near 90bhp transmission loss.
The other problem is you cannot lock it in one gear, you need '3rd' to get the magical 1:1 and as soon as you plant the right foot to do the power run it kicks down, and as stated below you have to start again.
The berk at Northampton motorsport was going to pull the fuse for the gear box to stop this!! ::)
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The 3.0 cams will work with the 2.5 engine management but you'll obviously get more out of them if you chip it too, as the maps in the 2.5 will be to suit the milder cams.
I'd expect the idle quality to degrade a little and perhaps for the fuel consumption to increase a tad.
Obviously, which you're there, you should clean the breathers, change the cam cover gaskets, camshaft oil seals, cam belt and tensioners if it's anywhere near due, as that all has to come off. Probably a good time to change the plugs if they're due too.
Kevin
Idle seems to be equally as good and fuel economy seems to be down to the right foot!
There is nothing wild about the 3.0 cams!
Just re-iterating ClarCE's findings. More temptation for the right foot probably doesn't help fuel economy. After all, you need to "test" any upgrades!
Kevin
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Hi there, looking at what everyones put all seems fine for what your looking for i've done nearly everything to the engine i'e gas flowed heads, cams, lightweight flywheel clutch, exhaust etc, the 1 st thing i did after making sure the engine/car was up to it were magnecore ignition leads 8.5mm (the red ones) Ngk irridium spark plugs and an uprated fuel pressure regultor from 3bar to 4bar. i did these jobs whilst doing the cam cover gaskets, its a relativly straight forward job and definatley made the car more responsive. Further mods like a free flow air filter and exhaust etc came later but try the leads, spark plugs and fuel regulator 1st a see what you think, if happy just carry on from there hope that helps a bit! :y
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Like I said, I'm not mechanically minded and I don't get that bit either!
Autos are a pain on a rolling road but not impossible. You won't get such an accurate "power at the crank" figure because the coastdown can only be done in "N" and you don't see most of the losses in the gearbox, but rolling road figures are only really useful as a before and after comparison anyway. TBH, unless he's actually going to tweak the map on the rollers and burn you a custom chip I'd say there's little point in using a rolling road except to generate a figure to brag about down the pub.
Cam change is the best route to more power, with a cjhip as well if you feel inclined. Quite an involved job but can be done in a day no problems.
Ignition and induction system are reckoned to be perfectly adequate as standard.
Kevin
The coast down is done in the same gear, and it creates extremely high transmission losses, thats the problem, when i went on the rollers with Sir Sideways last year we were both getting near 90bhp transmission loss.
The other problem is you cannot lock it in one gear, you need '3rd' to get the magical 1:1 and as soon as you plant the right foot to do the power run it kicks down, and as stated below you have to start again.
The berk at Northampton motorsport was going to pull the fuse for the gear box to stop this!! ::)
That's right. Coast down in gear and you've got engine braking and some porridge-stirring in the torque converter to contend with so the losses will be high. Coast down in "N" and very little of the gearbox is turning. You might as well just look at the "at the wheels" figure. After all, the important thing is that you get some idea if you are improving matters or not. Relative measurements don't really need accurate compensation.
With a manual box, of course, you can just declutch at the top of the run and all of the drivetrain continues to spin during the coastdown. You can get a very accurate power at the crank measurement with care.
You should be able to get as near as damn it to full throttle before kickdown, especially at higher RPM. Not fun when they kick down, though especially when they were close to climbing out of the rollers beforehand! :o
Kevin