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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: cdbdiis on 11 March 2008, 20:58:16

Title: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 11 March 2008, 20:58:16
Hello everyone, I'm new here by the way !
Anyway I have an M reg 2.5td auto estate and the fuel consumption is terrible, at best 25 mpg at worst I dare not calculate it ! There is a lot of black smoke from the exhaust, could the two things be connected ?
My suspicion is the pump timing, can anyone tell me how this is adjusted or are there any other opinions ? The car is relatively new to me and has covered just on 160,000 miles it will be used to tow a car transporter trailer.
Thanks
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: TheBoy on 11 March 2008, 21:03:01
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Hello everyone, I'm new here by the way !
Anyway I have an M reg 2.5td auto estate and the fuel consumption is terrible, at best 25 mpg at worst I dare not calculate it ! There is a lot of black smoke from the exhaust, could the two things be connected ?
My suspicion is the pump timing, can anyone tell me how this is adjusted or are there any other opinions ? The car is relatively new to me and has covered just on 160,000 miles it will be used to tow a car transporter trailer.
Thanks
Could well be the chain has slipped - happens with people do not change oil as per schedule (every 4.5k MAX) on these engines  :'(

Could also be a simple sensor issue, but you'll need to get it hooked up to a Tech1 to read it...
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 11 March 2008, 21:37:18
thanks, "but you'll need to get it hooked up to a Tech1 to read it..."  
I've read quite a lot about this, how do you go about it and what is it likely to cost ?
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: M Kerr on 11 March 2008, 21:39:57
Black smoke from diesels can be caused by timing or worn injectors.  Timing can be fairly easily adjusted but best left to someone with reasonable knowledge.  Given the mileage it is possible that recon'd injectors might be required.  Possible both.  It shouldn't cost too much to get the timing checked and adjusted if required so try this first.  I won't put a price on injectors but you'll dip into your pocket if they need changing.  The job is easy but the parts cost a bit!

Cheers,

Martin
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: TheBoy on 11 March 2008, 21:46:47
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thanks, "but you'll need to get it hooked up to a Tech1 to read it..."  
I've read quite a lot about this, how do you go about it and what is it likely to cost ?
Need to find someone with a Tech1 near you.  A Tech2 will not read that engine.
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: waspy on 11 March 2008, 21:48:53
My first thing to look at before we get technical is- check for obstructions in/around the air filter box. The Rover Diesel of old where known to suck up plastic bags & debri. It happened to me with a misplaced rag that my mate used to check the oil.
Black smoke galore

You never know  ::)
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 11 March 2008, 21:49:06
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thanks, "but you'll need to get it hooked up to a Tech1 to read it..."  
I've read quite a lot about this, how do you go about it and what is it likely to cost ?
Need to find someone with a Tech1 near you.  A Tech2 will not read that engine.
I spend a lot of time at Silverstone.... not far from Northampton, can you see where this is going  ;D
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: TheBoy on 11 March 2008, 21:51:30
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thanks, "but you'll need to get it hooked up to a Tech1 to read it..."  
I've read quite a lot about this, how do you go about it and what is it likely to cost ?
Need to find someone with a Tech1 near you.  A Tech2 will not read that engine.
I spend a lot of time at Silverstone.... not far from Northampton, can you see where this is going  ;D
I actually live near Silverstone, a small town called Brackley.

Unfortunately, I do not own a Tech1 :(
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 11 March 2008, 22:01:19
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thanks, "but you'll need to get it hooked up to a Tech1 to read it..."  
I've read quite a lot about this, how do you go about it and what is it likely to cost ?
Need to find someone with a Tech1 near you.  A Tech2 will not read that engine.
I spend a lot of time at Silverstone.... not far from Northampton, can you see where this is going  ;D
I actually live near Silverstone, a small town called Brackley.

Unfortunately, I do not own a Tech1 :(
No probs ! Can I reasonably expect to get 35mpg out of it when it's sorted, mixed driving A-B roads ?
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: TheBoy on 11 March 2008, 22:05:36
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thanks, "but you'll need to get it hooked up to a Tech1 to read it..."  
I've read quite a lot about this, how do you go about it and what is it likely to cost ?
Need to find someone with a Tech1 near you.  A Tech2 will not read that engine.
I spend a lot of time at Silverstone.... not far from Northampton, can you see where this is going  ;D
I actually live near Silverstone, a small town called Brackley.

Unfortunately, I do not own a Tech1 :(
No probs ! Can I reasonably expect to get 35mpg out of it when it's sorted, mixed driving A-B roads ?
i get 37 from my tractor, though is chipped
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 11 March 2008, 22:31:55
So how is the pump timing adjusted ?
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: TheBoy on 11 March 2008, 22:38:23
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So how is the pump timing adjusted ?
3 bolts hold in place, when loosened, you can rotate it slightly.  A gauge is put in back of pump to get it timed right.

If it has jumped a tooth (or the plastic guides broken), there won't be enough adjustment, plus it will happen again. The solution to that is changing the chains and guides - thats a head and sump off job sadly (silly BMW design!)

If the pump timing has moved/slipped, I think that is a job best left to a specialist with the right equipment :(


Hopefully it will not be that, and it is a simple sensor issue (I am assuming you have checked obvious like filters etc
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 11 March 2008, 22:49:53
Right so with the Tech 1 it should be possible to check sensors etc. ?
Will this also reveal an out of time pump ?
Great informative forum you have here by the way  :)
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: TheBoy on 11 March 2008, 22:57:53
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Right so with the Tech 1 it should be possible to check sensors etc. ?
Will this also reveal an out of time pump ?
Great informative forum you have here by the way  :)
Tech1 will show if ECU not happy with sensors.

Its not the easiest bit of kit to use for live data views for in depth analysis though.
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 12 March 2008, 18:39:38
An update on this then.
After removing the air filter and driving the car with the top of the filter casing lifted off, not recommended I know but it's do or die, there was a marked improvement both in smoke output and performance. After some initial smoking it cleared completely.
I could find no blockage in the inlet piework going to the air filter housing but the flexible pipe was detached completely (2" gap) from the plastic inlet tube behind the grille. Could this be the problem ?
Before I found the pipework problem I fitted a new air filter and it went back to how it was.
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: Andy B on 12 March 2008, 18:47:39
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...
After removing the air filter and driving the car with the top of the filter casing lifted off, not recommended I know but  ......

Last year as I was getting my diesel  Astra road going I took out the horrible scabby air filter with the intension of getting another at some stage ...... Several months later & the car was getting more & more lethargic I had a look round the induction. The fine gauze filter in front of the MAF sensor was all but blocked with crap. It was amazing how much better the car ran when I cleaned it & the car could breathe. :-[
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: perfferle on 12 March 2008, 19:26:25
As a general guideline - Black smoke from diesel engines is a sign of a rich fuel-air mixture for combustion. This and can occur in the following situations:
- Low engine compression caused by wear or defective/worn Turbocharger(if Fitted).
- Defective/worn fuel injection pump / injectors (as mentioned earlier).
- An obstruction in the air inlet system - Clogged air filter, or blockage before inlet manifold.

Hope this helps ;).

regards,
P.
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: platty on 12 March 2008, 20:56:42
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An update on this then.
After removing the air filter and driving the car with the top of the filter casing lifted off, not recommended I know but it's do or die, there was a marked improvement both in smoke output and performance. After some initial smoking it cleared completely.
I could find no blockage in the inlet piework going to the air filter housing but the flexible pipe was detached completely (2" gap) from the plastic inlet tube behind the grille. Could this be the problem ?
Before I found the pipework problem I fitted a new air filter and it went back to how it was.

Have you tried it with the new filter in and the pipe re-connected?

If its still the same I would rip all the induction parts out and check them all. If theyre all clear, at least this eliminates something.

Mine smokes a bit - but only when I really boot it, the power seems good but I haven't ever driven another TD to compare it with.

Maybe we should compare some 0-60s?  ;D
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: Omegatoy on 12 March 2008, 21:03:38
if your running supermarket diesel it will smoke!!! and please dont think a tankfull of proper diesel will clear it , you need to run the real stuff permanently to see the smoke ease off and proper servicing as well, it will take at least 3tanfuls to see a major improvement
Omegatoy
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 12 March 2008, 21:25:55
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Quote
An update on this then.
After removing the air filter and driving the car with the top of the filter casing lifted off, not recommended I know but it's do or die, there was a marked improvement both in smoke output and performance. After some initial smoking it cleared completely.
I could find no blockage in the inlet piework going to the air filter housing but the flexible pipe was detached completely (2" gap) from the plastic inlet tube behind the grille. Could this be the problem ?
Before I found the pipework problem I fitted a new air filter and it went back to how it was.

Have you tried it with the new filter in and the pipe re-connected?


Maybe we should compare some 0-60s?  ;D

I'm going to use it for work Tomorrow with the pipe re-connected, I'll let you know how it is.
As for 0-60.... wait 'till the end of the month I may be able to afford the fuel when i get paid again  ;D
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: Pitchfork on 13 March 2008, 09:54:43
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if your running supermarket diesel it will smoke!!! and please dont think a tankfull of proper diesel will clear it , you need to run the real stuff permanently to see the smoke ease off and proper servicing as well, it will take at least 3tanfuls to see a major improvement
Omegatoy
I run mine on Sainsbury's City Diesel
It had an MOT last week & emissions were 0.69 (3.0 is limit) so I do not understand why you should advise against Supermarket Fuel.
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: platty on 13 March 2008, 10:45:39
I use supermarket fuel the majority of the time and find that its ok, but on a few occasions I have used "proper" fuel then it does seem to go a bit further and run slightly nicer. Although this could be me just thinking it.

I do think supermarket fuel is inferior, just not by much.
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: TheBoy on 13 March 2008, 13:42:34
I have to agree with Omegatoy here, after a couple of tanks of normal shell, mine goes a little better, and smokes a lot less (watching it in car headlights at night with foot pinned to floor)
Title: Re: 2.5td smoking
Post by: cdbdiis on 13 March 2008, 21:03:45
Another update.
The pipe was the problem  :)
Smoking is much reduced and the car is using far less fuel now... it goes better too.
So if you are having similar problems, check that pipe connection ;)
Thankyou to everyone