Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Slime on 28 March 2008, 14:17:22

Title: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 28 March 2008, 14:17:22
Hi fellas,
I have a '97 V6 manual that suffers from random coolant loss.
It is so random, that if I had hair, I would pull it out!
I sometimes have to top the coolant up after 40 or 50 miles & sometimes it will be fine for 1000 miles!! There seems to be no pattern at all & this confuses me.
I've fitted a new expansion bottle, the old one had a hairline crack around the filler neck, & I've pressure tested the cooling system 3 or 4 times now, with no pressure or water loss.
This problem has been around for over a year now & is really bothering me.
The temp gauge has never gone over 95 degrees C and I'm sure the head gaskets are fine.
Twice I have seen steam appear from under the glove box area & occasionally the screen will suddenly mist up very quickly, mid journey, accompanied by the horrid hot water/anti-freeze smell. When this first occurred I put some paper in both footwells & left the car running for nearly two hours. NO overheating, NO water on the paper & NO dampness on the carpets which makes me think that the heater matrix is okay.
Sorry about the essay & thanks for reading this,
please shed the light,

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Dazzler on 28 March 2008, 14:31:21
Have you checked the HBV at the rear of the engine???
There is a guide with pictures in the Maintenance section.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Marie on 28 March 2008, 17:57:18
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1193594464

Here is how to get to it!
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 28 March 2008, 18:01:49
Thanks both,
just need to know if there is a way of testing the thing before replacing it?

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Marie on 28 March 2008, 18:05:21
you could try and place a peice of kitchen roll around it and take it for a short drive / run it for a while, then removee the kitchen roll and if its wet its leeken.

not sure it would work but its worth a try.
the lads might have some ideas.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Andy B on 28 March 2008, 18:09:15
Quote
Thanks both,
just need to know if there is a way of testing the thing before replacing it?

Slime.

They're not too expensive to replace. £25/30?
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Marie on 28 March 2008, 18:11:55
Just a bugger to get to and replace!
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Andy B on 28 March 2008, 18:20:50
Quote
Just a bugger to get to and replace!

You should be OK .... little hands are just what's needed :y  :y
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Marie on 28 March 2008, 18:22:08
Quote
Quote
Just a bugger to get to and replace!

You should be OK .... little hands are just what's needed :y  :y

im not doing mine....mine is fine :) :)
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Andy B on 28 March 2008, 18:24:14
Quote
......mine is fine :) :)

So's mine ..... now. ;)
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Gaffers on 28 March 2008, 18:30:14
I think mine might be shot......

....and I have huge hands!!!  Getting to the DIS was like a Krypton Factor challenge for me!
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Andy B on 28 March 2008, 18:33:03
Quote
I think mine might be shot......

....and I have huge hands!!!  Getting to the DIS was like a Krypton Factor challenge for me!

The HBV is a little easier in that you can at least see the bugger when the scuttle is removed. The first I saw of my DIS pack was when the final bolt had been removed.  ;)  ;)  :y
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 28 March 2008, 18:33:24
Me got big hands,  fingers like bananas,

Slime
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Gaffers on 28 March 2008, 18:43:25
Quote
Me got big hands,  fingers like bananas,

Slime

Must be from the same stock as me.  Irish blood?
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Marie on 28 March 2008, 18:44:59
get your wives to do it!

they have small hands ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Gaffers on 28 March 2008, 18:50:24
Quote
get your wives to do it!

they have small hands ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You havent met my wife!  Yes small hands but apart from petrol and oil, she doesn't know anything about looking after cars.  Oh she knows where to put oil because of the big letters on the cap.... OIL pfffft

You are an anomolie miss (leading hand?) Marie
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Marie on 28 March 2008, 18:52:55
Quote
Quote
get your wives to do it!

they have small hands ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You havent met my wife!  Yes small hands but apart from petrol and oil, she doesn't know anything about looking after cars.  Oh she knows where to put oil because of the big letters on the cap.... OIL pfffft

You are an anomolie miss (leading hand?) Marie

what?
i get my rate on the 31 july, well i should :)

as for the wife stand next to her and tell her step by step we all have to start from some where! :)
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Andy B on 28 March 2008, 18:55:07
Quote
....You are an anomolie miss (leading hand?) Marie

what?   ...[/quote]

anomaly (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=define%3A+anomaly&spell=1)

he's saying you're odd!  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Gaffers on 28 March 2008, 18:55:42
Quote
Quote
Quote
get your wives to do it!

they have small hands ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You havent met my wife!  Yes small hands but apart from petrol and oil, she doesn't know anything about looking after cars.  Oh she knows where to put oil because of the big letters on the cap.... OIL pfffft

You are an anomolie miss (leading hand?) Marie

what?
i get my rate on the 31 july, well i should :)

as for the wife stand next to her and tell her step by step we all have to start from some where! :)

All she'll do is b!tch about messing up her manicure, I have plenty of REME soldiers who will dance for beer!!   :y :y
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Marie on 28 March 2008, 18:57:09
Arh bless thank you! :-*

hey we have drifted off topic again.

hope you figure out whether its leaking!
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Gaffers on 28 March 2008, 19:02:25
Here's fingers crossed for 31st July   :y
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 28 March 2008, 23:16:28
What's happening 31st July?

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 28 March 2008, 23:29:35
Quote
Hi fellas,
I have a '97 V6 manual that suffers from random coolant loss.
It is so random, that if I had hair, I would pull it out!
I sometimes have to top the coolant up after 40 or 50 miles & sometimes it will be fine for 1000 miles!! There seems to be no pattern at all & this confuses me.
I've fitted a new expansion bottle, the old one had a hairline crack around the filler neck, & I've pressure tested the cooling system 3 or 4 times now, with no pressure or water loss.
This problem has been around for over a year now & is really bothering me.
The temp gauge has never gone over 95 degrees C and I'm sure the head gaskets are fine.
Twice I have seen steam appear from under the glove box area & occasionally the screen will suddenly mist up very quickly, mid journey, accompanied by the horrid hot water/anti-freeze smell. When this first occurred I put some paper in both footwells & left the car running for nearly two hours. NO overheating, NO water on the paper & NO dampness on the carpets which makes me think that the heater matrix is okay.
Sorry about the essay & thanks for reading this,
please shed the light,

Slime.

I had this exact same problem a few years back with a Cavalier.
What i did was removed the two heater pipes from the heater matrix under the bonnet on the bulkhead. Then got a U pipe and connected both pipes up so i was missing out the heater, this solved my problem, but it was bloody cold until I replaced the heater matrix :y
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 28 March 2008, 23:39:39

I had this exact same problem a few years back with a Cavalier.
What i did was removed the two heater pipes from the heater matrix under the bonnet on the bulkhead. Then got a U pipe and connected both pipes up so i was missing out the heater, this solved my problem, but it was bloody cold until I replaced the heater matrix :y
[/quote]


Thanks buddy,
how easy is it to change the matrix on my Omega?
From where it's positioned, it looks like a mare of a job, particularly for banana hands!

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 28 March 2008, 23:54:25
I have not done one on an Omega yet.............

It was a pain in the arse on Cav and a 2.8 Capri I did.... unside down in the footwell.... ;D

I was just suggesting you try bypass the matrix to make sure that is your problem. If HBV and the rest leak it will leak under the bonnet not in your footwell. The only other thing that could leak in your footwell is the water from a blocked scuttle drain but I wouldn't have thought it would have created steam...
Check it though, only takes a few seconds before you take the dash bits to get at the heater matrix, plus there is a How To now in the Maintence Section if it is the scuttle drain blocked :y

Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 29 March 2008, 00:02:35
Hi again,
I seem to remember a while ago about a shortcut when changing a matrix which saves hours. Something to do with cutting/bending/breaking a piece of trim that doesn't show when the job has been done.
Anyone heard of this?

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 31 March 2008, 22:58:31
Hi again,
just to confirm, before I dive headlong into this thing, if the HBV is the problem, would that cause the screen to mist up very quickly & go all smeary when I try to wipe it off?
Thanks for your time guys & lasses,

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Steve1077 on 31 March 2008, 23:06:53
I had a tiny pin hole in the hose from the radiator to the bit that goes to the thermostat, it only showed a leak when I pulled the hose about, took me a few weeks to find that damn leak
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: shyboy on 01 April 2008, 11:16:51
Quote
you could try and place a peice of kitchen roll around it and take it for a short drive / run it for a while, then removee the kitchen roll and if its wet its leeken.

not sure it would work but its worth a try.
the lads might have some ideas.
[/highlight]

I thought you were one of the lads.  ;D
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 01 April 2008, 23:21:05
Hi,

anyone out there in Omegaland know of a short cut when changing the heater matrix.
I've been told it's about a 10 hour job!!!
Any short cut tips would be welcome, as long as I don't have to use any semtex!!!

Regards as always,

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 04 April 2008, 22:13:17
Hi,
a bit more info.

Car loses coolant only when heater is set to hot.
Get steam coming from under the glove box. (Carpets stay dry though).
Screen mists up very quickly & is very greasy.
HBV is always dry.
Anti-freeze is dripping from the air con vent pipe under the car.

Me thinks it is probably the heater matrix & wonder whether anyone out there could confirm.

Grateful as always,

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: MutantCav on 04 April 2008, 22:27:41
Well ILoveMyElite is looking at a £700 bill for heater matrix...but then thats from Vauxhall at £85 an hour...
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: hotel21 on 04 April 2008, 22:31:58
gasaxe.....  but watch for the carpets!   ;D

saounds like the heater matrix.  search through the previous threads and see whats there.  Don't think there is a howtoo.....  :-/
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 04 April 2008, 22:33:10
Quote
gasaxe.....  but watch for the carpets!   ;D

Carpet is totally dry. Totally.
Thanks anyway,

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: psnimv6 on 04 April 2008, 22:40:31
Quote
Hi again,
I seem to remember a while ago about a shortcut when changing a matrix which saves hours. Something to do with cutting/bending/breaking a piece of trim that doesn't show when the job has been done.
Anyone heard of this?

Slime.
i think this can be done on ford granada,s but i don,t know about omega,s i would suspect it is a dash out job which is not that difficult just time consuming,when i bought my 01 omega ex cop car i had to replace the complete dash because for some reason the cops had cut of the glove box mounts so i had no choice but replace the dash or no glove box >:( so i had to remove one in scrap yard then my own and then refit it :y
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: humbucker on 04 April 2008, 22:42:37
complete dash out job unfortunately. long ole process too. i remember someone i know replacing the heater matrix on a vauxhall viceroy and that took them over a day to do with a lot of cash finding its way into the swear box. not much has changed it seems.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 04 April 2008, 22:43:18

[/quote]
i think this can be done on ford granada,s but i don,t know about omega,s i would suspect it is a dash out job which is not that difficult just time consuming,when i bought my 01 omega ex cop car i had to replace the complete dash because for some reason the cops had cut of the glove box mounts so i had no choice but replace the dash or no glove box >:( so i had to remove one in scrap yard then my own and then refit it :y[/quote]
  

How much time to take a dash out, approx?

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: hotel21 on 04 April 2008, 22:44:27
Done the heater matrix on my Carlton GSi by moving the pedalbox assempbly out the way, rather than dismantle the whole dash.  May be the same with the Omega?
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: psnimv6 on 04 April 2008, 22:50:37
Quote
i think this can be done on ford granada,s but i don,t know about omega,s i would suspect it is a dash out job which is not that difficult just time consuming,when i bought my 01 omega ex cop car i had to replace the complete dash because for some reason the cops had cut of the glove box mounts so i had no choice but replace the dash or no glove box >:( so i had to remove one in scrap yard then my own and then refit it :y[/quote]
  

How much time to take a dash out, approx?

Slime.[/quote]
i did it on a facelift omega and it was not to bad but i would have thought your would be similar as for time can,t remember as it was 1.5 years ago but i know it was removed and refitted in less than a day as in maybe 4-6 hours i think but then i am a gluten for punishment anyway ;D
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: humbucker on 04 April 2008, 22:50:52
Quote
How much time to take a dash out, approx?

VX quoted me approx 7 hours to do the job, on a good day. ive read horror stories online of it taking a lot longer but i guess its how experienced you are at this stuff.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Slime on 04 April 2008, 22:53:25

VX quoted me approx 7 hours to do the job, on a good day. ive read horror stories online of it taking a lot longer but i guess its how experienced you are at this stuff.
[/quote]

Never done one before.
Ahh well.
No guts, No glory.

Slime.
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: humbucker on 04 April 2008, 22:55:41
Quote
VX quoted me approx 7 hours to do the job, on a good day. ive read horror stories online of it taking a lot longer but i guess its how experienced you are at this stuff.
Quote
Never done one before.
Ahh well.
No guts, No glory.

Slime.

agreed. sadly mine emptied itself completely all over the cabin floor 45 miles from home and pi55ed coolant all over the road more or less right outside the vx garage i had just been in to collect the sealant i need to do my cam cover gaskets. it couldnt have happened at a worse time either. AND this is just two weeks after we scrapped our second car! so its our only motor. sheesh.

 :(
Title: Re: Random Coolant Loss???
Post by: Mike Collins on 05 April 2008, 09:36:03
I changed the matrix in my 2.5 last weekend, yes dash padding off.

There are many catches, TIS lists most of the steps, I found you could not really shortcut any. Watch out for the clips holding the cable loom, two or three behind the climate control panel, one each behind fuse box and relay panel.

Don't expect the new core to come with o rings or captive nut. I used 14mm dia, 2.5mm section rings from a general kit. The captive nut can be changed over to the new core but may need to filed down.

My new core was thinner than the existing one, needed packing and sealing to prevent air leakage.

It took me all weekend.

I can see how it may be possible to cut away the padding in the driver's foot area. That may just allow the matrix out, it would not help with sealing the gaps if it's a different thickness. I'm afraid I could not bring myself to do it.

Best of luck.