Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Sideways on 05 September 2006, 08:17:45
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Hi Guys
I was chatting to Terry the other day and he mentioned he was dropping an Astra flywheel into his MV6.
I was planning the same job but with the Courtenay flywheel, which obviously is significantly more expensive (£260).
Can anyone give me some advice on the Astra method. Exactly what Astra is it from, is it difficult to do, are there any other consideration I should bear in mind before tackling this task., what is the weight difference (I think the 3.0's is around the 15Kg mark).
Also, I was having a gander at the V6 area of Courtenay's website and they offer quite a few upgrade products (leads, plugs, fuel pressure regulator, thermostat etc). Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of these.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi Guys
I was chatting to Terry the other day and he mentioned he was dropping an Astra flywheel into his MV6.
I was planning the same job but with the Courtenay flywheel, which obviously is significantly more expensive (£260).
Can anyone give me some advice on the Astra method. Exactly what Astra is it from, is it difficult to do, are there any other consideration I should bear in mind before tackling this task., what is the weight difference (I think the 3.0's is around the 15Kg mark).
Also, I was having a gander at the V6 area of Courtenay's website and they offer quite a few upgrade products (leads, plugs, fuel pressure regulator, thermostat etc). Does anyone have any knowledge or experience of these.
Thanks in advance.
I think what terry wants to use a flywheel from a C20XE engine which can be found under the bonnet of calibras, cavalier, astra mk2 GTE, mk3 GSI etc. Yes the light flywheel will reduce the inertia of the rotating masses of the engine but it will do f*** all with regards to horsepower, i wouldn't do it last after i have exhausted all other improvement opportunities with regards to engine performance.
I think what courtenay offers is okish with a tendency for high cost useless modifications such as upgrade plugs, water wetter, airbox buchering etc. I used the cool stat once in my old omega with very good results as the car feels more powerfull when below 93 degrees. Wait untill february when i will be carrying major tuning DIY work and i will let you know what is what.
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Hi Mark, yes i've bought an early type (flat style) flywheel and clutch from a C20XE (redtop) engine. I think the dual mass flywheel may even weigh as much as 18kg's? But the xe flywheel weighs 8.5kg's! Obviously this won't do anything for my HP and infact will knock my high end torque, but it should pull through the revs quicker and from lower down. As for cost, mine set me back £30 delivered ;D And i've been told the standard xe clutch should handle the power and not wear out quickly like i first thought.
As for other performance mods, i wouldn't touch a fuel pressure reg. The fuelling on the V6's is perfect for a standard engine, anything more would probably over-fuel it and actually slow you down. I nearly went for a cool stat. when rebuilding mine because as OmegaV6cd said, the V6's are noticeably quicker at around 92-93 degree's. For a free/cheap mod i'd be tempted to butcher the airbox slightly and get a cold air feed running to it....Or get a carbon fibre surrounded filter, like a BMC can.
Still need to meet up! But i'm really busy lately, working from 10-6 Mon-Sat ::)
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For a free/cheap mod i'd be tempted to butcher the airbox slightly and get a cold air feed running to it....Or get a carbon fibre surrounded filter, like a BMC can.
Isn't there already a cold feed to the airbox? On mine there is a pipe that connects to the front of the airbox and goes around in front of the radiator, just behind the grill.
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Yes there is, though I'll probably do away with this altogether and have straight induction into the throttle bodies via an air filter and do away with the multiram or have a direct feed into the airbox from a more sensible location and profile than the standard intake pipe.
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I think you probably need to think this through a bit. If you do away with the cold air intake and go for straight induction won't you then be pulling in hot air after it's been through the radiator? If you get rid of the multiram you will need to reprogram the ECU otherwise it's going to think the multiram has failed and go into limp mode I think. Both of which will reduce your performance.
A lighter flywheel is only likely to be of benefit if you have an auto, it will be able to speed the engine up quicker for down changes but it's not going to make any difference to the power or torque that the engine can provide.
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WTF... I don't think you have a flywheel with an auto!?! You've got that great big sodding torque converter and its associated inertia.
The reason for lightening the flywheel is to reduce the intertia (effectively angular weight) that the engine has to spin. So even though it produces no more power, that power can accelerate a lower angular mass more quickly (and slow more quickly too).
There are of course downsides, not least of which is reduced damping effect causing a reduction in smoothness, but also potential engine damage if the flywheel is design to dampen harmonics from the crankshaft! I don't know enough about the Omega setup to comment with any authority though...
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but also potential engine damage if the flywheel is design to dampen harmonics from the crankshaft! I don't know enough about the Omega setup to comment with any authority though...
That's a very good point. Might give that some consideration.
Re the direct induction I will move or modify the radiator to allow straight cold flow, or just put a bonnet scoop on.
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but also potential engine damage if the flywheel is design to dampen harmonics from the crankshaft! I don't know enough about the Omega setup to comment with any authority though...
That's a very good point. Might give that some consideration.
Re the direct induction I will move or modify the radiator to allow straight cold flow, or just put a bonnet scoop on.
That is exactly what I was planning to do. 8-)
Maybe get hold of a Monaro style bonnet vent.
I think it would be possible to run the straight induction to the TBs, providing all the Multi-Ram parts are still in place.
Duel Filters are probably out of the question, as there is only one MAS, maybe just one huge filter behind the new bonnet vent.
Still drawing up plans, and measuring stuff.
Main problem at this point is to find a filter of the correct size...a K&N Filter though, not some other random make.
**I wonder if I could use the existing airbox** :-?
Cheers.
Matt
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Sounds good Matt
I reckon K&N or Pipercross would make ayou one to spec.
Or you could just buy the foam then make it yourself. It's not that difficult.
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Dont get an oiled filter thoughk, the oil knackers the MAF sensors.....
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Dont get an oiled filter thoughk, the oil knackers the MAF sensors.....
I have a K&N panel filter ATM, it's slightly oiled.
The next one I get will defo be a PiperCross viper though
I kinda have 3 choices really:
Either use a scoop on the bonnet, Monaro Style - Would look cool, but a lot of work involved
Use the front airdamn - An awfult lot of re-plumbing the intake system, but would be very discrete
Or vent the wing, next to the existing airbox - Althouth the twin intake pipes would remain in place, the "induction kit" (Piper x make a good one), would be fed by a vent either on the bonnet or on the wing.
On the Fly Wheel front, the weight saving is your biggest asset there, although accelaration will be helped a fair bit, but no direct BHP increase.
Thats why F1 engines rev so quickly, as they have have berly no flywheel.
But be carful as Flywheels are often balenced for a specific engine, to help it run smoother, and iron out any shakes etc... you may have to re-balance your new one.
Cheers.
Matt
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Reckon the bonnet scoop would be the neatest or just drop your rad by 4-6 inches.
I'd love to see it when your done. What else are you doing to it?
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WTF... I don't think you have a flywheel with an auto!?! You've got that great big sodding torque converter and its associated inertia.
The reason for lightening the flywheel is to reduce the intertia (effectively angular weight) that the engine has to spin. So even though it produces no more power, that power can accelerate a lower angular mass more quickly (and slow more quickly too).
It hadn't occurred to me that the auto wouldn't have a heavy flywheel, it could just have a light starter ring.
I did think about the angular mass slowing the acceleration but I'm not sure what difference knocking a few kgs off that will make to acceleration. I know my auto doesn't take long to accelerate the engine alone but I've never compared it to how long a manual takes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the idea, I'm just interested in what difference it would make.
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Not convinced you'll see much performance benefit from modded intakes....
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Not convinced you'll see much performance benefit from modded intakes....
There's on way to find out ;)
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Absolutely ;)
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Sorry guys, I think you need to remember that to increase performance from increased airflow coming in, you also need to shift that increased volume out the other side! :)
Take a look at your exhaust manifolds. If you want to improve performance, change them, they are far too restrictive.
Oh and if you find a quote that doesn't make you shudder, let me know! ;D
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Why do people keep talking about increasing BHP or torque by changing the flywheel?? Obviously there will be no BHP increase, the flywheel has NOTHING to do with the amount of power the engine produces!! It's merely an intermediary for transfering the power from the crank to the clutch/gearbox/drivetrain. As previously mentioned, dropping the weight of the flywheel means the inertial forces on the flywheel are reduced, thus allowing it to 'spin up' a lot quicker.
As for damaging the engine, it wont. Yes it'll be a lot less smooth, revs will drop off quicker, shock from the clutch will be felt a lot more etc But imo the drop in the amount of shock being absorbed by the flywheel wont be anywhere near enough to do any engine damage. Most of the shock will be felt by you, not the engine.
The main point that i'm highly considering is that the Omega is a very heavy car and a reduction in flywheel weight may not be hugely noticeable, it would be a lot more noticeable in a lighter car. There will be a small improvement pulling through the revs, but the loss of momentum in the flywheel may make hills (or carrying a lot of weight) not much fun....
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Sorry guys, I think you need to remember that to increase performance from increased airflow coming in, you also need to shift that increased volume out the other side! :)
Take a look at your exhaust manifolds. If you want to improve performance, change them, they are far too restrictive.
Oh and if you find a quote that doesn't make you shudder, let me know! ;D
Dave,
the standard manifolds are not as restrictive as people think they are due to the firing order of the engine being 123456, you get enough time for the engine to create negative pressure waves that will aid the the gasflow. For example the 1, 3, 5 sequence causes 3 sequencial waves think about it. I'm sure that if someone would set up a model on WAVE there would be no issue flaged up. Yes it would have been better to have nice and smooth headers but thet are not necessary unless you want to achieve 100hp/lt. ;)
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Well this weekend, I'm going to barstardise my intake System... I'll let you know you how goes.
Also on a slight tangent... how do I clean the Engine Bay?
On my landy, it was simply, drive to a car wash, pop the hood and get spraying while the wife held the throttle at 2000RPM.. :D
But with the 'meega's sheer amount of electroinic wisardry I would't dare.
See I have a leak but can't find the source, so I figure cleaning the engine up a bit might show me where it is comming from, pus it's a right state under the hood anyway... :(
Suspension- Any good makes people could recommend, that work well at lowering and stiffening the ride up a bit?
I already have the EBC Discs and pads put on. (did them when I changed the wishbones.)
One final thing..... as every boy racer knows graphics on your car, gain you 50BHP, maybe 60BHP if the graphics reads "TECHNICS". Whatever they are....
I was thinking of getting mine done in the touring car colours of the old Vectra, you know the white and yellow scheme. (At least 100BHP more).
Cos I really would quite like to use the Omega for Castle Coombe track Days, and I thought cool Graphics would make it look the part.
Anyone know of a good reputable company that does this kind of thing. Thought I would ask here first instead of randomly calling companies from the internet.
Cheers.
Matt
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Matt,
Matt
It would appear you and I are at similar stage re bastardisation and oil leeks.
I am in the same boat re cleaning the engine and apparently a good soaking with gunk does the job then either very carefully jet wash it with electrics taped up or hand wash it.
My leek seems to be coming from the rocker cover gasket. I found there was oil beneath the HT leads which means it can only really come from one place. Apparently this is very common on V6's. It took me about an hour to get the intake manifold, ali casing and rocker cover of for the first time and I am no expert to might be worth checking it out yourself, or you can just pull the HT leads out and check for oil.
Re graphics. There are a number of methods of producing the graphics. If you have complex colours with fades in you will need to get the graphics "printed" which is more expensive but better quality. If the graphics you are getting are all block colours you just need to get the colours cut then layer them. This is cheaper but you have more chance of them coming off as you have more graphics. Just a thought you might like to bear in mind when getting quotes. If you need any help with the images give me a shout as I'm quite handy with illustrator etc.
Best of luck.
Look forward to hearing how you got on over the weekends.
Mark
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Matt
How did the bastardization go?
Mark
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Check the Post Entitled... "Air Intake Barstardisation"
I thought I would start a new thread, as it's kind of a new Item... :)
Cheers.
Matt
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Oh, also the wife is going to murder me!!!!!
I have just brought... : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=012&item=220020144956&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1#ebayphotohosting
Hell I need that before I graphics applied.... :)
Thats my excuse anyway.
Cheers
Matt
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hi guys, can I pick up onthe old flywhel thread. A lighter flywheel transforms the v6. True it doesnt make any more power but a lighter flywheel means that less power is absorbed in accelerating the flywheel. That saved power is then available to the wheels. Check out Puma race engines site for all the tech stuff. But if you do nothing else change the flywheel. you will be smiling. ps it doesnt change the torque at all, and hill climbing is not effected. acceleration will be dramatically improved in the lower gear so at the end of the straight you will be going more quickly. its only physics. Regal and chris astley can help with direct replacements flywheels or the xe option but I dont think the xe is a direct replacement, particularly for the dual mass. have fun
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..... its only physics. .........
So is the 1700 kgs of Omega! :-/
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..... its only physics. .........
So is the 1700 kgs of Omega! :-/
1690kg's if youve got a light flywheel :y lol
Has anyone done this yet? ill be changing the clutch in mine in a few weeks and will be looking to do this at the same time. any info would be greatly appreciated.