Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tomTVR on 30 March 2008, 02:57:50

Title: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 30 March 2008, 02:57:50
Hi guys. Just bought myself an ebay special 2.5 CDX manual 1998. Bit of a fool i am i handed over the cash and drove off, because i was in a convoy with my elderly mother it wasnt until i got home 200 miles away that i realised the car was seriously down on power. It struggles below 4000 rpm and will not go over 90mph down hill foot planted to the floor on the motorway.

It sounds like it might not be running on all cylinders although having no idea about car mechanicals whatsoever i might be mistaken.

Any ideas what the problem is? Is there a series of checks i should do? And what are the chances that the whole lot is mullered?

Thank you VERY much for any suggestions and advice, Hugely appreciated.

Tom
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Gaffers on 30 March 2008, 09:00:23
Check for a spark in all the plus, lack of which would point to DIS pack.
Check accelerator cable adjustment
Check breathers (oil  in plugwells is a good indicator)

Welcome to the V6 world, once she running good you're gonna love it  :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 09:17:37
Quote
Hi guys. Just bought myself an ebay special 2.5 CDX manual 1998. Bit of a fool i am i handed over the cash and drove off, because i was in a convoy with my elderly mother it wasnt until i got home 200 miles away that i realised the car was seriously down on power. It struggles below 4000 rpm and will not go over 90mph down hill foot planted to the floor on the motorway.

It sounds like it might not be running on all cylinders although having no idea about car mechanicals whatsoever i might be mistaken.

Any ideas what the problem is? Is there a series of checks i should do? And what are the chances that the whole lot is mullered?

Thank you VERY much for any suggestions and advice, Hugely appreciated.

Tom

It may be "limp mode" which is designed to prevent you from "seeing what she'll do" until whatever is wrong that could cause problems is resolved.

I wouldn't panic, you're engine is a real brick and is unlikely to be a wreck. People on here will help you.

Your 1st step is to look up the "paperclip" test on here somewhere. Do that and then report back on here as to what fault codes come up. I think it may be under FAQ or Technical Guides, but it is easy to find.

Oh, and update your profile, with at least what car you drive as this will help in diagnosis and save you having to remind other members what you're driving each time.

On a final note, have a look at your PM for a mail from me with the OOF map password. Click on the "map" button above which will take you to http://www.zeemaps.com/omegaowners, use the password, log in and add a marker for your location. This will help you find other nearby members if you need hands on help or advice. :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Gaffers on 30 March 2008, 09:22:24
Hmmm he didnt mention the eml light being on.  I wonder if the seller took the bulb out? :o

Does the eml light switch on and then off when you start the car?
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 09:25:56
Quote
Hmmm he didnt mention the eml light being on.  I wonder if the seller took the bulb out? :o

Does the eml light switch on and then off when you start the car?

Very good point!

If it does then continue as stated ^^.

If there is no orange "engine" light that comes on briefly whilst you start the car then:

That in fact should now be your first step. There's a thread under the advice section on how to get to the back of the dash (10 minute job) and check / replace that Engine Management Light (EML) bulb.

It's either somehthing like limp mode or, judging by your username, you have become accustomed to a TVR and the 2.5 CDX will feel a little down on power.

You do know that don't you ;D


Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Gaffers on 30 March 2008, 09:29:37
Quote
Quote
Hmmm he didnt mention the eml light being on.  I wonder if the seller took the bulb out? :o

Does the eml light switch on and then off when you start the car?

Very good point!

If it does then continue as stated ^^.

If there is no orange "engine" light that comes on briefly whilst you start the car then:

That in fact should now be your first step. There's a thread under the advice section on how to get to the back of the dash (10 minute job) and check / replace that Engine Management Light (EML) bulb.

It's either somehthing like limp mode or, judging by your username, you have become accustomed to a TVR and the 2.5 CDX will feel a little down on power.

You do know that don't you ;D

PMSL  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 09:51:32
Quote
Hi guys. Just bought myself an ebay special 2.5 CDX manual 1998. Bit of a fool i am i handed over the cash and drove off, because i was in a convoy with my elderly mother it wasnt until i got home 200 miles away that i realised the car was seriously down on power. It struggles below 4000 rpm and will not go over 90mph down hill foot planted to the floor on the motorway.

It sounds like it might not be running on all cylinders although having no idea about car mechanicals whatsoever i might be mistaken.

Any ideas what the problem is? Is there a series of checks i should do? And what are the chances that the whole lot is mullered?

Thank you VERY much for any suggestions and advice, Hugely appreciated.

Tom

Your symptoms rang a bell; I was right (which is surprising considering the brain damage I inflicted upon myself in my youth) and they sound similar to those described in quite a recent thread:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1206723219

Multi-rams?

Stick to the original plan, but I'd keep an eye on that thread too :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2008, 11:30:08
To diagnose this, I would do paperclip test (to read engine fault codes for free!) - see Maintenece Guides section for guide to do it.

If that doesn't shed any light, is it missing, or just holding back?

Missing/rough running - check HT side, ie DIS, leads, plugs

Smoothish, but just holding back - check for bloacked cat/exhaust.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 30 March 2008, 15:44:32
Thank you for the help. I will check those things out this afternoon and update the bits and pieces on here.

I did have chance to have a look at the spark plugs (again being useless with cars) is it usual for them to be dripping with oil when you take them out?

Tom
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 15:46:33
Quote
Thank you for the help. I will check those things out this afternoon and update the bits and pieces on here.

I did have chance to have a look at the spark plugs (again being useless with cars) is it usual for them to be dripping with oil when you take them out?

Tom

Not generally :(, but I'd stick to the plan at the moment otherwise any diagnoses are simply stabs in the dark.

You need to post your fault codes if you have any. You don't say whether the Orange Engine light comes on as you start the car and then goes out again.


Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 15:46:55
no mate thats not good !! cam cover gaskets and breathers need doing !! there is a guide in maint sec  :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: jonathanh on 30 March 2008, 15:49:51
NO!

Not clear what you mean:

1) the plug itself is covered with oil before you take it out (look around the hole) - this means your cam cover gaskets are leaking or

2) the electrode is covered in oil - i.e. looks wet - means there is something wrong with engine.

Update your profile with a bit more info.  Post some pics if you want.  Someone will be along to help
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 30 March 2008, 16:53:23
Yes i have just checked and i have the engine light on (the orange one above the handbrake light?)

The hole that the spark plug goes into is totally full of oil see picture.

(http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn80/degenerationtom/leak.jpg)
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Martin_1962 on 30 March 2008, 16:57:51
Breathers, cam cover seals and possibly new leads
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Entwood on 30 March 2008, 17:00:48
As he said ^^^  ...  about a days work

The maintenance guides give you all the info you need, including part numbers. For EVERYTHING but the leads   ONLY use VX parts .. or they'll just fail again
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: wozza on 30 March 2008, 17:01:43
thats the rocker cover gaskets gone common problem on v6 engine my calibra does this also..
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 17:09:39
Quote
thats the rocker cover gaskets gone common problem on v6 engine my calibra does this also..

Easy job to fix on the V6. This is a symptom of a blocked breather system. Clean that lot out 1st.

There's a post in the maintenance section.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 30 March 2008, 19:07:47
Nice one guys. Anyone know where in the North of England i can get this work done at a reasonable price? (i.e. not main dealer) Or someone on the forum who can do it for some cash?

Dont mind having a bash at it myself but i need to reset the ECU to tell it its been fixed?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 19:11:55
Quote
Nice one guys. Anyone know where in the North of England i can get this work done at a reasonable price? (i.e. not main dealer) Or someone on the forum who can do it for some cash?

Dont mind having a bash at it myself but i need to reset the ECU to tell it its been fixed?

Thanks again.


update your profile tom to show your location bud !! then we can see were you are in realation to us !! :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 30 March 2008, 19:42:14
Done  :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 19:51:49
well your only about an hour from me matey !! :y :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Dave-C on 30 March 2008, 19:57:06
Tom, firstly, DON'T WORRY about this small problem...  make sure that GENUINE VX cam cover gaskets are used... others will NOT LAST... that's whoever does the job... also it's reasonably easy..  it's a shame there isn't a cambelt party very soon... could get it sorted good style and moderately cheaply too!

Loads of help on here... keep posting updates, we'll get it all sorted,  a cambelt change is advisable too, in the very near future, that's if no service record or proof of a recent change...

And a big OOF welcome to you too..

Dave C :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 19:59:51
Quote
Quote
Nice one guys. Anyone know where in the North of England i can get this work done at a reasonable price? (i.e. not main dealer) Or someone on the forum who can do it for some cash?

Dont mind having a bash at it myself but i need to reset the ECU to tell it its been fixed?

Thanks again.


update your profile tom to show your location bud !! then we can see were you are in realation to us !! :y

You done the map yet?
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 20:02:44
yea mate do the map thing then we can all see !! :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: achoo81 on 30 March 2008, 20:10:37
Hey Albatross hows about letting me put my place on your great map pleeeeasssssse.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 20:12:53
you dont need permission fella just the password !! :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 20:20:50
Quote
Hey Albatross hows about letting me put my place on your great map pleeeeasssssse.

Check your PM :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 20:22:14
Quote
yea mate do the map thing then we can all see !! :y

He's done it and hit his house bang on :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: achoo81 on 30 March 2008, 20:24:11
Thank you kind sir will do it shortly.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 30 March 2008, 21:17:27
Just done a paperclip test and no faults found (other than 31 for no RPM) - i dont know if that is a good or bad sign?

Though the bloody bonet release handle seems to have broken so i cant even see the engine anyway grrrr  :(
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: TheBoy on 30 March 2008, 22:12:47
Quote
Just done a paperclip test and no faults found (other than 31 for no RPM) - i dont know if that is a good or bad sign?

Though the bloody bonet release handle seems to have broken so i cant even see the engine anyway grrrr  :(
The paperclip results are good :y

I think you've found the fault - oil in plug wells.  These causes a poor spark, and lack of power. If its been like it for a while, the leads may be damaged.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 22:30:46
and so could dispac !! :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: bighed on 30 March 2008, 23:11:08
Can I have password for map or do I need more posts??  :'(
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 23:12:51
Quote
Can I have password for map or do I need more posts??  :'(
pm sent fella  :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 23:14:41
Quote
Can I have password for map or do I need more posts??  :'(

Check your PM

Also have a look here:

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1206144652/
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 23:15:36
Quote
Quote
Can I have password for map or do I need more posts??  :'(
pm sent fella  :y

Cheers Mark :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: markey mark on 30 March 2008, 23:16:44
Quote
Quote
Quote
Can I have password for map or do I need more posts??  :'(
pm sent fella  :y

Cheers Mark :y

no worries fella  :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: bighed on 30 March 2008, 23:17:03

Thanks!!!!
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: MutantCav on 30 March 2008, 23:21:59
Password please Albatross :)
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Albatross on 30 March 2008, 23:39:53
Quote
Password please Albatross :)

Have a look at the thread under general chat folks. It will tell you that if you need the password, please PM me.

Chris: Check your PM :y
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 03 April 2008, 02:30:53
Well just to keep you guys updated. The car had a new rocker gasket fitted today on one side (the other was ok), the breather cleaned out and the plugs cleaned up.

Cost me £151 for everything.

Once the plooms of smoke had stopped comming from the exhaust (normal?)the car is definatley a bit faster but i still feel that its not 100%.  The car pretty much stops accelerating when it gets to 90mph to such a slow creep which cant be right for a 142mph car. My mothers mondeo 2.0 would leave it for dead.

New plugs, leads or distributor perhaps?
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: FRE07962128 on 03 April 2008, 06:07:29
Personally, even though I can maintain and repair most cars (just selling a 1989 Toyota that I have driven and kept going to over 240k) I would advise going to a reputable Vauxhall main dealer, getting them to do their computer anylisis of your cars systems, and I note you know little about mechanics, so to save wasting your time and money, finding out (for free!) what they believe is wrong.  It will give you an idea of EXACTLY what the problem could be, or if you are wealthy enough perhaps encourage you to let them do the work required. Working on these lovely computer  set up beasts can be difficult for the novice!  Lizzie Zoom  ;)
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: rickyboy on 03 April 2008, 08:06:29
Since when did the Vaux dealers start doing free computer analysis???  :o  I hope you're right but very much doubt it.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: CaptainZok on 03 April 2008, 08:08:18
Quote
Personally, even though I can maintain and repair most cars (just selling a 1989 Toyota that I have driven and kept going to over 240k) I would advise going to a reputable Vauxhall main dealer, getting them to do their computer anylisis of your cars systems, and I note you know little about mechanics, so to save wasting your time and money, finding out (for free!) what they believe is wrong.  It will give you an idea of EXACTLY what the problem could be, or if you are wealthy enough perhaps encourage you to let them do the work required. Working on these lovely computer  set up beasts can be difficult for the novice!  Lizzie Zoom  ;)
Anyone know of one :-/.
Seriously search for paperclip test on the forum search and post any fault codes here I'm sure you'll get better advice and save yourself £50+ for a tech2 session at the dealer, or if your near to TheBoy or MarksDTM they have Tech2 and know how to use them properly.
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: FRE07962128 on 03 April 2008, 08:16:08
Quote
Quote
Personally, even though I can maintain and repair most cars (just selling a 1989 Toyota that I have driven and kept going to over 240k) I would advise going to a reputable Vauxhall main dealer, getting them to do their computer anylisis of your cars systems, and I note you know little about mechanics, so to save wasting your time and money, finding out (for free!) what they believe is wrong.  It will give you an idea of EXACTLY what the problem could be, or if you are wealthy enough perhaps encourage you to let them do the work required. Working on these lovely computer  set up beasts can be difficult for the novice!  Lizzie Zoom  ;)
Anyone know of one :-/.
Seriously search for paperclip test on the forum search and post any fault codes here I'm sure you'll get better advice and save yourself £50+ for a tech2 session at the dealer, or if your near to TheBoy or MarksDTM they have Tech2 and know how to use them properly.

Yes, I take your point entirely!!

However I did find one once; Vauxhall Main Dealer Patchway Motors of Filton Bristol.  They maintained six of my company high mileage (80-100k per year) cars from new, with none letting me down.  Also used them for three private Vauxhalls with great service overall.
Lizzie Zoom  :y :y :D
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 April 2008, 08:29:36
Quote
Well just to keep you guys updated. The car had a new rocker gasket fitted today on one side (the other was ok), the breather cleaned out and the plugs cleaned up.

Cost me £151 for everything.

Once the plooms of smoke had stopped comming from the exhaust (normal?)the car is definatley a bit faster but i still feel that its not 100%.  The car pretty much stops accelerating when it gets to 90mph to such a slow creep which cant be right for a 142mph car. My mothers mondeo 2.0 would leave it for dead.

New plugs, leads or distributor perhaps?


Next step...

Is the fuel filter and air filter reasonably new?

Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: keith2.2 on 03 April 2008, 11:30:01
Quote
However I did find one once; Vauxhall Main Dealer Patchway Motors of Filton Bristol.  They maintained six of my company high mileage (80-100k per year) cars from new, with none letting me down.  Also used them for three private Vauxhalls with great service overall.
Lizzie Zoom  :y :y :D

I suspect the points might not be entirely exclusive of eachother  ;)
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: tomTVR on 24 April 2008, 09:26:56
Right i thought i would post my story as a bit of a warning to people to do preventative maintainance with this problem.

I first took the car to a garage to chance the rocker cover gasket which i thought would cure the problem, it didnt and cost me £51. I took it back to the garage to do the coil and ht leads as the next step, they also discover the gasket has gone again so suggest a warped rocker cover so that will need replacing and along with it another gasket. This bill comes to about £440. The stupid garage after having the car for a week decided to tell me that they had been busy with other jobs so after a week without a car (pissed me off as they knew they were busy yet didnt bother to tell me) i took it back as i needed it for a long trip. On the motorway due to the overfueling caused by poor running caused the exhaust to explode after filling with petrol. The car sounds like a chav racer its so loud. Return to garage who quote about £200 for the exhaust repair. Also they set about to finally fix the original problem but find that the bolts on the manifold are past their best (manifold needs to be taken off to change the coil) and will most likely sheer off and require recoring, this will add another couple of hundred to the bill. Add that lot to the cost of new spark plugs and the amount of money i am spending on fuel due to the dreadful mpg the cost of getting the car back to full health will be getting on for £800! This is at a trusted garage with reasonable labour rates.

As its happens i decided not to fix it and am just going to run it with reduced power and a broken exhaust. Cant justify that sort of money right now, especially as the car only cost me £500 in the first place.

I guess the moral to my story is that a seemingly small problem can snowball into a right ballache. Also dont drive the car too much when it is overfueling as that was a serious explosion and knackared exhaust!
Title: Re: V6 hugely down on power
Post by: Kevin Wood on 24 April 2008, 09:37:21
That garage are having a laugh. All the usual excuses. Warped rocker covers to cover up the fact that they messed up with the first gasket change, and I have no idea what manifold they are talking about removing to get to the coil pack.

If I were you I'd have a look at some of the maintenance guides and sort it yourself. It's probably something silly and you can have it running well pretty cheaply.

Kevin