Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Proz on 15 May 2008, 14:47:02
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Hi all.... looks like i found this forum too late .... i had my cylinder head gasket and timing belt/ tensioners done 2 yrs ago ... the car had only covered 14'000 miles since the change and guess what ??? Ping goes the belt ...the local garage that did it ( non vauxhall ) have basically washed thier hands and said thats tough ... i thought they would have been a bit more helpfull .... trading standards say they should be responsible .... anyway instead of a long drawn out battle because i need the car on the road i've bought a reconditioned engine with a 6 month warranty ... this engine has done 39'000 so i enquired if the timing belt would be needing changed ....they say no because this will have been done ...would the 6 month warranty cover it if heaven forbid the belt on that goes as well ....
Mark
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are you certain they changed the tensioners ?
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..and water pump
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For piece of mind I would replace the belt, tensioners and water pump. Better safe than sorry :y
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Hi all.... looks like i found this forum too late .... i had my cylinder head gasket and timing belt/ tensioners done 2 yrs ago ... the car had only covered 14'000 miles since the change and guess what ??? Ping goes the belt ...the local garage that did it ( non vauxhall ) have basically washed thier hands and said thats tough ... i thought they would have been a bit more helpfull .... trading standards say they should be responsible .... anyway instead of a long drawn out battle because i need the car on the road i've bought a reconditioned engine with a 6 month warranty ... this engine has done 39'000 so i enquired if the timing belt would be needing changed ....they say no because this will have been done ...would the 6 month warranty cover it if heaven forbid the belt on that goes as well ....
Mark
So was it a failing water pump that caused the belt to go?
What year is this 'new' engine from, ideally 1998 onwards to benefit from the balance shafts etc.
I assume the engine is from an Omega or there will be the need to swap sumps, ancillaries and mounts over etc.
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In the 50k I had my 2L, I did 2 belt changes - and I mean that - no tensioners/pulleys or water pump (per My Haynes who just mentions the belt as a service item). Think I was very lucky!
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Hi all.... looks like i found this forum too late .... i had my cylinder head gasket and timing belt/ tensioners done 2 yrs ago ... the car had only covered 14'000 miles since the change and guess what ??? Ping goes the belt ...the local garage that did it ( non vauxhall ) have basically washed thier hands and said thats tough ... i thought they would have been a bit more helpfull .... trading standards say they should be responsible .... anyway instead of a long drawn out battle because i need the car on the road i've bought a reconditioned engine with a 6 month warranty ... this engine has done 39'000 so i enquired if the timing belt would be needing changed ....they say no because this will have been done ...would the 6 month warranty cover it if heaven forbid the belt on that goes as well ....
Mark
So was it a failing water pump that caused the belt to go?
What year is this 'new' engine from, ideally 1998 onwards to benefit from the balance shafts etc.
I assume the engine is from an Omega or there will be the need to swap sumps, ancillaries and mounts over etc.
I dont think it was anything other than the belt ... the garage did look at it and said the tensioners / rollers and pump were fine .. it was just the belt that broke .... i did ask the if they were sure the engine came from an Omega... the reply was yes so fingers crossed it should slide straight in
Part requested VAUXHALL OMEGA Engine
Quotation from engines uk limited (sales@enginesuk.co.uk)
Telephone 0845 838 7083
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Mileage 39000
Price £275.00
Delivery £25.00
Subtotal £300.00
VAT £52.50
Total £352.50
Warranty 6 Months
Comments
Quote Brought To You From http://www.findanengine.co.uk
the above is part of the email i got from them .... im now wondering if i should get the pump / belt stuff changed now too... but surely they wouldnt send out a reconditioned engine without doing them would they ??
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well they are charging you £275. A belt/tensioner kit and water pump would have cost them around £100 plus fitting. So are you sure they would have spent that without having had to?
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well they are charging you £275. A belt/tensioner kit and water pump would have cost them around £100 plus fitting. So are you sure they would have spent that without having had to?
I did ask the woman on the phone about the belt when i paid for it this morning .... she said that the belt would have been done ..... mmmm now im not so sure ... guess i'll maybe give them a call back
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Hi all.... looks like i found this forum too late .... i had my cylinder head gasket and timing belt/ tensioners done 2 yrs ago ... the car had only covered 14'000 miles since the change and guess what ??? Ping goes the belt ...the local garage that did it ( non vauxhall ) have basically washed thier hands and said thats tough ... i thought they would have been a bit more helpfull .... trading standards say they should be responsible .... anyway instead of a long drawn out battle because i need the car on the road i've bought a reconditioned engine with a 6 month warranty ... this engine has done 39'000 so i enquired if the timing belt would be needing changed ....they say no because this will have been done ...would the 6 month warranty cover it if heaven forbid the belt on that goes as well ....
Mark
So was it a failing water pump that caused the belt to go?
What year is this 'new' engine from, ideally 1998 onwards to benefit from the balance shafts etc.
I assume the engine is from an Omega or there will be the need to swap sumps, ancillaries and mounts over etc.
I dont think it was anything other than the belt ... the garage did look at it and said the tensioners / rollers and pump were fine .. it was just the belt that broke .... i did ask the if they were sure the engine came from an Omega... the reply was yes so fingers crossed it should slide straight in
Part requested VAUXHALL OMEGA Engine
Quotation from engines uk limited (sales@enginesuk.co.uk)
Telephone 0845 838 7083
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mileage 39000
Price £275.00
Delivery £25.00
Subtotal £300.00
VAT £52.50
Total £352.50
Warranty 6 Months
Comments
Quote Brought To You From http://www.findanengine.co.uk
the above is part of the email i got from them .... im now wondering if i should get the pump / belt stuff changed now too... but surely they wouldnt send out a reconditioned engine without doing them would they ??
I dont beleave that for a minute, I am yet to see a belt fail other than due to a tensioner, idler or water pump seizure!
Is that for a second hand engine (I assume it it)
You DO need to know the year of car it came from as there were signifcant changes during production.
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im no mechanic but after they left the car at my house i looked at the rollers etc ... they all move freely .. water pump too ... none of them are stuck or dont move ......but then i dont know what to look for ...just spoken to the people about the engine again and they assure me the belt etc will have been done and tested ... but im not sure about the year ... i did fill out the online form with 1997 2 ltr ecotec automatic .... i hope i'll get the right one now .... maybe i should have just scrapped her :-/
edit : just spoken to them again and it is from a 97 omega
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erm :o
PLEASE NOTE THIS WARRANTY REFERS TO ENGINES AND GEARBOXES ONLY
Note: THIS WARRANTY IS VOID IF NEW CAM BELTS
ARE NOT FITTED BEFORE RUNNING ENGINE-PROOF OF WHICH MUST BE OBTAINED
from here : http://www.enginesuk.co.uk/?p=p_14&sName=warranty
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erm :o
PLEASE NOTE THIS WARRANTY REFERS TO ENGINES AND GEARBOXES ONLY
Note: THIS WARRANTY IS VOID IF NEW CAM BELTS
ARE NOT FITTED BEFORE RUNNING ENGINE-PROOF OF WHICH MUST BE OBTAINED
from here : http://www.enginesuk.co.uk/?p=p_14&sName=warranty
OH dear .... wat have i done :(
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I would ask them to confirm in writing that a new cambelt has been fitted (as they told you verbally), in order that you comply with their warranty in future.
However this isn't really adequate at all - it needs to be the full kit inc water pump as previously discussed, so you would be better off getting yourself a full kit/pump and fitting yourself (easy job on 2L).
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well they are charging you £275. A belt/tensioner kit and water pump would have cost them around £100 plus fitting. So are you sure they would have spent that without having had to?
I did ask the woman on the phone about the belt when i paid for it this morning .... she said that the belt would have been done ..... mmmm now im not so sure ... guess i'll maybe give them a call back
sadly it really doesn't matter whether they have changed the belt or not, what there warranty clearly states is that if you can't prove YOU changed the belt before running the engine, if it snaps within six months their warranty will not be honoured.
rather sneaky really.
Personally I would walk away fro this one, you have rights under the sale of goods (mail order customer not present) to a cooling off period in which to change your mind.
If however you can get an assurance in Writing from them that the belt has been done then they would have to honour their warranty within the six months.
J
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It was two years ago, and you didn't specifically instruct the garage to replace the water pump which is a fundemental part of the cambelt setup.
I'm afraid, I don't think there is any recourse on the garage after this time.
If they had fitted it incorrectly, it would have failed a lot sooner than 2 years / 14k miles.
It was either a component failure on an ancilliary, such as the pump or a tensioner/idlers.
Either way, I don't think the responsibility lies with whoever fitted it, I don't blame them for washing their hands after that amount of miles.
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
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When buying a second hand engine (from whoever) I doubt you'll find any which have a guarantee that the cambelt has been done recently. Not in my experience anyway. As said by ians it would cost them close to a hundred quid to fit a new cambelt kit.
I would get the engine and it's up to you whether you change it yourself or not. The cambelt change on a 2 litre is very easy. The price doesn't look unreasonable for an engine with so little miles. Your other option is to search the scrappys yourself and you will find one cheaper but the likelyhood is they'll have more miles on them.
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well they are charging you £275. A belt/tensioner kit and water pump would have cost them around £100 plus fitting. So are you sure they would have spent that without having had to?
I did ask the woman on the phone about the belt when i paid for it this morning .... she said that the belt would have been done ..... mmmm now im not so sure ... guess i'll maybe give them a call back
sadly it really doesn't matter whether they have changed the belt or not, what there warranty clearly states is that if you can't prove YOU changed the belt before running the engine, if it snaps within six months their warranty will not be honoured.
rather sneaky really.
Personally I would walk away fro this one, you have rights under the sale of goods (mail order customer not present) to a cooling off period in which to change your mind.
If however you can get an assurance in Writing from them that the belt has been done then they would have to honour their warranty within the six months.
J
Well i would like thank you for that link ... the woman on the phone to begin with said it would all be done and wouldnt need changing ... then when i pointed out there warranty she quickly changed her tune and said it would ... needless to say i cancelled the order ... i need the car running but i dont think its worth just throwing money at it like that ..... i was prepared to pay for the engine and fitting but to change all those things aswell just put the bill too high .... my garage is going to see his contacts to see if he can source one for me ... Thanks :y
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Right, just noticed where you live.
Contact Mike Stewart performance engineering in Errol, Perth.
Get him to quote for a repair or replacement. He may know where to get a good cheap engine. His work is top class, he did my replacement engine in the Hundy when the big ends went and it's been running sweet as a nut for 4 years !!
Muirhouses, The Grange,
Errol,
Perth,
Perthshire
PH2 7TB
Tel: 01821 642576
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It was two years ago, and you didn't specifically instruct the garage to replace the water pump which is a fundemental part of the cambelt setup.
I'm afraid, I don't think there is any recourse on the garage after this time.
If they had fitted it incorrectly, it would have failed a lot sooner than 2 years / 14k miles.
Im not a mechanic so i didnt know the water pump needed done aswell ... it went in for a cylinder head gasket , it was the garage who advised the belt aswell while they were in there ...maybe they should have advised me about the pump .... just a point of interest ... they left the car here with the belt covers off ... all the pullys / tensioners and water pump rotate freely with no noise or roughness ... i dont know if that makes any difference to what actually made the belt break
Mark
It was either a component failure on an ancilliary, such as the pump or a tensioner/idlers.
Either way, I don't think the responsibility lies with whoever fitted it, I don't blame them for washing their hands after that amount of miles.
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
No offence taken .... would you be happy if yours broke after only 14,000 miles or under 2 years .... service life is supposed to be 4 years or 40,000 :-/
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
No offence taken .... would you be happy if yours broke after only 14,000 miles or under 2 years .... service life is supposed to be 4 years or 40,000 :-/
It shouldn't fail that soon.
What we will never know is if it was ever fitted and tensioned correctly or what make of kit it was.
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
No offence taken .... would you be happy if yours broke after only 14,000 miles or under 2 years .... service life is supposed to be 4 years or 40,000 :-/
It shouldn't fail that soon.
What we will never know is if it was ever fitted and tensioned correctly or what make of kit it was.
He could get photos of the kit and belt and we could guess ?
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Im not a mechanic so i didnt know the water pump needed done aswell ... it went in for a cylinder head gasket , it was the garage who advised the belt aswell while they were in there ...maybe they should have advised me about the pump .... just a point of interest ... they left the car here with the belt covers off ... all the pullys / tensioners and water pump rotate freely with no noise or roughness ... i dont know if that makes any difference to what actually made the belt break
Mark
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
No offence taken .... would you be happy if yours broke after only 14,000 miles or under 2 years .... service life is supposed to be 4 years or 40,000 :-/
It shouldn't fail that soon.
What we will never know is if it was ever fitted and tensioned correctly or what make of kit it was.
He could get photos of the kit and belt and we could guess ?
I could get some pics if you guys want just for curiosity ... the belt and covers were left lying in the rear footwell :-/... its not a clean break ..its all split from the untoothed side ...i dont know the fancy words lol but it looks as if its started to seperate the layers from the smooth side
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
No offence taken .... would you be happy if yours broke after only 14,000 miles or under 2 years .... service life is supposed to be 4 years or 40,000 :-/
No-one is doubting how annoyed you would be having it snap at 14,000 miles, I would be livid! >:( The point is though there was clearly a fault of some kind and there would never have been any way of knowing unless there was some noise coming from that area beforehand or you checked the condition of it every few thousand miles which would be ridiculous. It certainly should last a lot longer than that but in life there are no real guarantees of anything unfortunately! C'est la vie. ::) ;)
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Very true, just recently we bought a Scenic from an independent dealer.
Very tidy clean and pristeen car, 85K on a Y plate.
I asked the dealer would he change the timing belt included in the price, he said no need there is a reciept in the pack for a change at 80K which was true.
Bought car, got ten miles towards home, belt broke !!! :'(
AA took car back to dealer and left keys through letterbox, when I phoned in the morning the car was in the workshop being repaired - NO CHARGE !!!
;D
Why did belt break ? Cowboy garage had changed belt but NOT tensioner >:(
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Very true, just recently we bought a Scenic from an independent dealer.
Very tidy clean and pristeen car, 85K on a Y plate.
I asked the dealer would he change the timing belt included in the price, he said no need there is a reciept in the pack for a change at 80K which was true.
Bought car, got ten miles towards home, belt broke !!! :'(
AA took car back to dealer and left keys through letterbox, when I phoned in the morning the car was in the workshop being repaired - NO CHARGE !!!
;D
Why did belt break ? Cowboy garage had changed belt but NOT tensioner >:(
Oh dear ...thats awfull .... but at least they repaired it though :y
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
No offence taken .... would you be happy if yours broke after only 14,000 miles or under 2 years .... service life is supposed to be 4 years or 40,000 :-/
No-one is doubting how annoyed you would be having it snap at 14,000 miles, I would be livid! >:( The point is though there was clearly a fault of some kind and there would never have been any way of knowing unless there was some noise coming from that area beforehand or you checked the condition of it every few thousand miles which would be ridiculous. It certainly should last a lot longer than that but in life there are no real guarantees of anything unfortunately! C'est la vie. ::) ;)
I think we would all sympathise , no question, but that doesn't mean that the garage is culpable.
However I do agree with you that you shouldn't have to know that the water pump needs changing too (as I said, even Mr Haynes doesn't know that).
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Ps - no offence intended - just an opinion :y
No offence taken .... would you be happy if yours broke after only 14,000 miles or under 2 years .... service life is supposed to be 4 years or 40,000 :-/
No-one is doubting how annoyed you would be having it snap at 14,000 miles, I would be livid! >:( The point is though there was clearly a fault of some kind and there would never have been any way of knowing unless there was some noise coming from that area beforehand or you checked the condition of it every few thousand miles which would be ridiculous. It certainly should last a lot longer than that but in life there are no real guarantees of anything unfortunately! C'est la vie. ::) ;)
I think we would all sympathise , no question, but that doesn't mean that the garage is culpable.
However I do agree with you that you shouldn't have to know that the water pump needs changing too (as I said, even Mr Haynes doesn't know that).
I knew myself that the garage wouldnt do anything weather thats right or wrong ... around here they have " half a job " as a nick name ...however i spoke to trading standards and they said that it was unacceptable ... but i cant be bothered with a long drawn out battle ...at the time i was unaware of the garages poor reputation or i would have gone somewhere else .... oh well , we live and learn ;D
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I used to have an '88 Cavalier 1.6 Mk3... timing belt snapped while I was driving past Luton airport. RAC came out and fixed it in half an hour, car drove fine and gave me another 30k use before I got rid of it.
Those were the days.... SOHC engine, £30 Dunlop tyres, so much space in the engine bay you could stand in it to work on the motor lol. Life was simpler back then! :)
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Mrs TB's dad has just had his audi cambelt done by a backstreet garage. He niavely assumes that garages have the expertise and experience to do this sort of thing. Obviously its been back a number of times since for them to fix their mistakes.
Number of garages around that also say you can do a v6 belt without the timing kit is shocking.
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I think the best words of advice I've seen in here - live and learn.!