Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: v6coop on 13 May 2008, 20:46:02
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Newbie to this forum. Hope someone here can help. Found a couple of threads with similar issues but no conclusions so thought I would start again. Slow loss of coolant (several weeks to empty header tank) with drip coming off the bottom of the autobox bellhousing. Already checked HBV, coolant bridge, oil cooler cover, and thermostat all of which look to be OK. Last thought is where the stainless steel coolant transfer pipe enters the oil cooler chamber at the back of the engine. Anyone else had this problem? I understand there is an O ring seal on the pipe. Advice on best way to check and replace if necessary would be appreciated.
Jon
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Welcome to the forum :)
Yes the transfer pipe has a o-ring which can become hard and leak :(
The only real way to check it is to remove the inlet manifold system and look at it, also at the same time you can check the thermostate, coolant bridge and oil cooler properly.
Your positive its not the HBV then??? have you felt all around it for leaks??
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Thanks Dazzler.
Just been and checked it again. Completely dry, I replaced it for the second time in April 2007. There is a small puddle under the car as we speak so not from HBV. How easy is it to remove the transfer pipe with the plenum chamber and induction gubbins removed? Had it all off at the weekend to check the other parts mentioned but did not think about the transfer pipe until I had put it back together and did some more searching in other posts. Expected the coolant bridge to be the problem.
Jon
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Transfer pipe is a real nightmare to do, although some claim it can be done from under the car just by the sense of touch. From the top, you will need to remove intake plenum, injector assembly and coolant bridge ( not forgetting the scuttle and wipers first) and gently nudge the oil cooler pipe out of the way.
Have you considered replacing the exhaust manifold gasket whilst you are this far? Another 1/2 hour and peace of mind for years to come.
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Ahoy there Captain!
Friendly place this two responses in less than an hour is great. Thanks.
By 'nudge out of the way' I take it you mean bend? So no need to free up all the way round to the front and remove or is your reference to the exhaust manifold gasket implying otherwise? I suspect the gasket does need doing (drivers side) as I do have metalic tapping on cold start which goes after a few minutes. Slightly concerned that I will have broken stud(s) to contend with though. Is it really only half an hour more? Peace of mind in what respect, what is the worse that could happen if I don't?
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im reading this thread with interest as i have a similar problem... once the plenum, injectors, manifold and coolant bridge are off is it easy enough to get to the transfer pipe? anyone got any pics?
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Been here recently ALL sorted now but at high cost.
In my case the leak was from a tiny hose, RIGHT at the back and down quite a way. My mechanic took an age to find it and repair it because it was SO hard to get at...had to replace the pipe by touch mostly.
DON'T let it go ANY further. The £1.50 hose cost me over £200 in the end because the leak killed my Dis pack. If your car starts "mis firing" its a good sign that the dis pack is damp/wet. UNLIKE me, its at that point that you shouldn't drive her until the leak is sorted....or expect a large bill.
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Thanks Duggs.
I'm trying to fix it for just the reason you describe. Just need to find someone who has actually done this with engine in situ to give me some tips and I will have a go myself. Would particularly like to know if the transfer pipe needs to be completely removed or if it can be done by just unbolting it.
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In fairness, I don't know if it was the so called "transfer pipe".
From mechanics desription he just said it was "way down out of sight", about 4-6 inches further down from the HBV (which he replaced also) and that it was held into position via the circlar clips. "A bugger to get off and an ABSOLUTE bugger to put back on" Quote:
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I did my exhaust manifold gasket at the Shifnall cambelt Do which meant I had to remove the transfer pipe. One you have removed the Plenum, inlet manifold, coolant bridge wiper and skuttle you will be able to get at the two bolts holding the coolant transfer pipe to the block but there is another bolt above the exhaust manifold which also holds the transfer pipe. A word of warning, when refitting the transfer pipe, put something on the O ring to keep it in place on the transfer pipe, I used camcover gasket sealant the second time, the first time I found the O ring on top of the bell housing after reassembling and found Niagra Falls coming from the back of the engine ::)
Good luck :y
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did any of you have to have the car on ramps / four post hoist to do this or could it be done 'on the driveway'? just wondering how much access required from under the car...
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did any of you have to have the car on ramps / four post hoist to do this or could it be done 'on the driveway'? just wondering how much access required from under the car...
I had mine up on axle stands, but I was doing the exhaust manifold gasket. To do the coolant transfer pipe, the car would be better on the ground.
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I did my exhaust manifold gasket at the Shifnall cambelt Do which meant I had to remove the transfer pipe. One you have removed the Plenum, inlet manifold, coolant bridge wiper and skuttle you will be able to get at the two bolts holding the coolant transfer pipe to the block but there is another bolt above the exhaust manifold which also holds the transfer pipe. A word of warning, when refitting the transfer pipe, put something on the O ring to keep it in place on the transfer pipe, I used camcover gasket sealant the second time, the first time I found the O ring on top of the bell housing after reassembling and found Niagra Falls coming from the back of the engine ::)
Good luck :y
Think we stripped and re-built it within 1.5hours when it leaked the first time.
All done WITHOUT ramps.
You only need to get underneath if your also doing the manifold gasket.
And as for breaking studs......very rare on the V6, particularly after 1996 production
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Interesting topic... I too have a similar problem.
I had a coolant leak, was pouring tons of water. I replaced the HBV with one off ebay - cost me £13.99 :) but still have a much slower leak. After a 20 mile trip if I immediately pop the bonnet I see a bunch of steam floating around behind the plenum.
There is a slight chance that I punctured the hose on the offside of the HBV during fiting (I'm a monkey when it comes to spanners and engines and stuff like that lol) but I still have not had a chance to investigate further.
I am now concerned about this 'transfer pipe' as a possible cause of the issue as my car is occasionally starting up lumpy every now and then (sorts it self out after 10-20 seconds) and makes me wonder if my dispack is getting soggy.
The guide for the HBV replacement was really useful, is there a guide for the transfer pipe? or any of the other common causes of coolant leak?
Thanks,
Ben
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OK sounds like I need to take the pipe off completely, found the post about exhaust manifold gasket replacement so feel I know what to do to get the transfer pipe off. Is there anything else it could be. If the headgasket had gone is leaking coolant a possible consequence? Finally, Marks DTM Calib, should I do the manifold gasket at the same time. Bearing in mind it has probably been blowing for 5 years what might be the result of leaving it be, out of interest?
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OK sounds like I need to take the pipe off completely, found the post about exhaust manifold gasket replacement so feel I know what to do to get the transfer pipe off. Is there anything else it could be. If the headgasket had gone is leaking coolant a possible consequence? Finally, Marks DTM Calib, should I do the manifold gasket at the same time. Bearing in mind it has probably been blowing for 5 years what might be the result of leaving it be, out of interest?
whats the link to the post?
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Interesting topic... I too have a similar problem.
I had a coolant leak, was pouring tons of water. I replaced the HBV with one off ebay - cost me £13.99 :) but still have a much slower leak. After a 20 mile trip if I immediately pop the bonnet I see a bunch of steam floating around behind the plenum.
There is a slight chance that I punctured the hose on the offside of the HBV during fiting (I'm a monkey when it comes to spanners and engines and stuff like that lol) but I still have not had a chance to investigate further.
I am now concerned about this 'transfer pipe' as a possible cause of the issue as my car is occasionally starting up lumpy every now and then (sorts it self out after 10-20 seconds) and makes me wonder if my dispack is getting soggy.
The guide for the HBV replacement was really useful, is there a guide for the transfer pipe? or any of the other common causes of coolant leak?
Thanks,
Ben
ben, possible common causes :
thermostat,
oil cooler,
heater bypass valve,
oil coolant bridge,
coolant transfer pipe,
split hose,
oil cooler plate unsealed
etc etc
i know as i have systematically tried them all!!
this might help your diagnosis:
http://
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1208207933
not sure how wise it is to use a heather bypass valve from ebay... geniuine vx one might be a better idea but others may tell you otherwise. :y
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i just called vx to try and get an o ring for this coolant transfer pipe but they said without more specific info they cant work out which bit i need... i used description here which was 'stainless steel coolant transfer pipe entering oil cooler chamber at back of engine'
anyone got any more info?!? vx said so many pipes in that area not sure which one it is
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i just called vx to try and get an o ring for this coolant transfer pipe but they said without more specific info they cant work out which bit i need... i used description here which was 'stainless steel coolant transfer pipe entering oil cooler chamber at back of engine'
anyone got any more info?!? vx said so many pipes in that area not sure which one it is
Assuming the seal you're after is no 15 in the diagram, try asking for a 9128362 SEAL, RING, WATER INLET NECK TO CYLINDER HEAD
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/ctpipeseal.jpg)
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i just called vx to try and get an o ring for this coolant transfer pipe but they said without more specific info they cant work out which bit i need... i used description here which was 'stainless steel coolant transfer pipe entering oil cooler chamber at back of engine'
anyone got any more info?!? vx said so many pipes in that area not sure which one it is
Assuming the seal you're after is no 15 in the diagram, try asking for a 9128362 SEAL, RING, WATER INLET NECK TO CYLINDER HEAD
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/ctpipeseal.jpg)
thats awesome, many thanks, i'll be calling them back in the morning! :y
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The thread I was refering to regarding the exhasut manifold gasket replacement was this one.
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1207782262/15#15
Jon
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Got home early yesterday so started pulled everything off in anticipation of the fine Bank Holiday weather ruling out easily working on the car Sunday or Monday. No real problems getting everything off even the exhaust manifold which was actually helped by the fact that all the nuts stayed where they were and the studs screwed out of the head! Any advice on the best way to refit the studs and what torque setting to use? Slightly more sinister was that with the manifold off it was apparent that there has been a long standing oil leak somewhere in the back corner of the head, below the manifold, which has dripped down onto the starter motor. I have felt all the way round the cam cover and cannot find a leak so assume it is either seaping out of the head gasket or from the breather box thingy just behind the head. I don't know anything about this 'box' could there be an oil leak from this and if so can it be fixed or am I looking at HG failure?
Jon
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At risk of talking to myself (forgive me) I thought I would update the thread with the final outcome as I had been so frustrated by others reporting the problem and not the solution.
I refitted the exhaust manifold studs with two nuts locked together. I couldn't get much torque onto them without the nuts slipping. So I decided this point was enough on the basis of not wanting to strip the thread on nuts, studs or head and that they were obviously not in very tight to start with. Manifold refitted fine but decided to take off the auxillary drive belt tensioner to ease access to the forwardmost nut.
WRT the oil leak, it was the breather box. This was absolutely caked with oil deposits and both the hoses were blocked, so after a long soak in petrol, all cleaned up and hoses cleared I refitted it using the grey sealant that is applied using a (silicon sealant type) sealing gun. I also refitted the transfer tube with a new sealing ring and the coolant bridge with new sealing washers and a smaer of the above mentioned sealent on all the metal surfaces (ie head, bridge and banjo bolts) before fitting the washers between.
So far so good. The start up exhaust manifold ticking is gone which is so much better than waking the neighbours every time it was started from cold. Most importantly though there is no sign of a water leak! I have had to top the expansion tank up but assume this was air trapped in the system. Fingers crossed I now have a V6 lump which is no longer speing fluids and breathing properley again. Thanks for the initial advice which encouraged me to have a go.
J
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At risk of talking to myself (forgive me) I thought I would update the thread with the final outcome as I had been so frustrated by others reporting the problem and not the solution.
I refitted the exhaust manifold studs with two nuts locked together. I couldn't get much torque onto them without the nuts slipping. So I decided this point was enough on the basis of not wanting to strip the thread on nuts, studs or head and that they were obviously not in very tight to start with. Manifold refitted fine but decided to take off the auxillary drive belt tensioner to ease access to the forwardmost nut.
WRT the oil leak, it was the breather box. This was absolutely caked with oil deposits and both the hoses were blocked, so after a long soak in petrol, all cleaned up and hoses cleared I refitted it using the grey sealant that is applied using a (silicon sealant type) sealing gun. I also refitted the transfer tube with a new sealing ring and the coolant bridge with new sealing washers and a smaer of the above mentioned sealent on all the metal surfaces (ie head, bridge and banjo bolts) before fitting the washers between.
So far so good. The start up exhaust manifold ticking is gone which is so much better than waking the neighbours every time it was started from cold. Most importantly though there is no sign of a water leak! I have had to top the expansion tank up but assume this was air trapped in the system. Fingers crossed I now have a V6 lump which is no longer speing fluids and breathing properley again. Thanks for the initial advice which encouraged me to have a go.
J
good work, keep us informed of progress and how you get on in the coming days. great to hear you got it sorted. my drip isn't proving as easy to isolate, but fingers crossed...
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good work, keep us informed of progress and how you get on in the coming days. great to hear you got it sorted. my drip isn't proving as easy to isolate, but fingers crossed...
I am not familiar with this engine, but doesn't a failed coolant pump cause leakage?