Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Albus Dumbledore on 21 February 2008, 19:55:24
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Hi!
I have recently done a motorchange on my Omega B 8 valve engine (I had a crack in the motor block, so all the engine oil came in to the expansion tank).
My problem now is that the engine overheats!
When I first started the new engine it worked fine, but I broke the temperatur sensor (the one that shows the temperatur of the coolant on the dash). I decided not to drive the car untill I had replaced the sensor, and just to be sure I fitted a new thermostat as well.
Since I did these things, the engine has overheated. When I was replacing the thermostat, one of the skrews broke, so I had to replace the thing the thermostat is fitted on (don't know what its called). It's a metal thing, that is fitted on the front of the cylinder head, and (standing in front of the car) the thermostat is fitted on the left on the thing, and on the right side there are two hoses connected. On the "thing" the temperatur sensor is fitted as well, on the left by the thermostat.
Now, I have tested the thermostat, and it works fine, checked the waterpump and that works fine too, tried to run the engine with the filler cap off and on, with the bleeding hose from the radiator to the eks. tank off, tried to blow in various hoses to get the water circulating (and check that nothings blocked), tried to elevate first the front, then the rear, and the sides to get the water flowing...!
If I have the filler cap off and start the engine, the coolant level rises slightly, so in my head that means that the water pump is working. I tried to take the thermostat of while the engine is running, and hardly and coolant came through, but if I take the filler cap off when the thermostat is off, the water poors out:( I don't have any coolant loss eather, (from what I can see).
To me the problem seems to be that the coolant doesn't want to circulate! The coolant never reaches the radiator in order to be cooled off!
I'm sorry if this is a veeeeery long post, but I'm desperate and feel I have tried everything (obviously not, since I have the problem still), and I have been working on the car since November (with various other things) to get it in prime condition!
Please help!!
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You say you checked the water pump, how did you check it, removed and inspected?
It does sound like coolant is not circulating, what is the history of the engine?
With pipes removed and stat out, can you flush water through the block with a hose pipe?
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Yes I removed and inspected the pump, and I compared it to the old pump (from the engine I changed). The "propeller" that circulates the water was whole (made of metal, not plastic like som are), and the timeingbelt sprocket turned like it should.
I haven't tried to flush the block with the pipes out, I just took it for granted that it wasn't clogged. I tried to take the stat out, and then took of the filler cap to the eks. tank, and then the water came pouring out, but only if I removed the filler cap.
And when I start the engine, and put the ventilation system on full heat, it only comes cold air, even when the engine is over a 100 Celsius.
Should I try to flush anyway? What do you mean with the history of the engine?
It comes from a Vectra:) but its the same engine (8valve)
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If you had oil in the water expansion tank from the old engine then it is likely that the radiator is blocked with an oil / water emulsion, and the heater also.
You try flushing radiator and heater with a hose pipe, once you get some flow you can try filling the system with a detergent or degreaser and run the engine.
Keep degreasing and flushing until the system is clean then refill with antifreeze.
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Ok, I'll try that!
When you say heater, do you mean the heater matrix?
How do you flush the heater? Gardenhose trough the bottom radiator hose?
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Garden hose through radiator bottom hose with top hose disconnected.
Remove heater hoses and flush heater matrix.
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Ok! thanks! I'll try and give an update!
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Well, her is an update!
I have flushed the radiator, the engine, the eks. tank and all hoses i could find. When I flushed through the bottom hose (the one connected to the radiator, it came out where the thermostat should be.
I tried to run the engine with the thermostat of, and felt that som hot water came to the thermostat hose, but it wouldn't circulate.
I tried to fill ut the whole system from the radiator top hose (with a garden hose, and it didn't help!
Ok, I just modified this post. I thought that I had petrol in the cooling system, but a friend of mine told me that oil will also show these rainbow colours in contact with water, and since I had oil in the cooling system I'm guessing thats what it was.
But still I have the circulation problem. Any suggestions?
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Or do I have to give in and have a garage check it out? (even though I don't want to)...
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Did much oil get into the coolant, could your radiator be partially blocked with an oily emulsion?
Flushing with a degreaser solution may help.
This is needed after oil cooler failure when the coolant becomes contaminated with oil.
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Yes, quite a lot of oil vent in to the coolingsystem. The engine (the old engine that is) was drained of engine oil twice (since I started with changing the cylinder head gasket, then the cylinder head, before it changed the whole engine), and all the oil went in to the eks. tank.
But I flush the radiator today with a garden hose, and clean water came out (after a while), and I flushed the engine. Should I still use the degreaser?
Could it be my heater matrix? or cylinder head gasket?
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I would flush using a degreaser, maybe several drain/refill cycles and see if the temperature comes down.
What is the outside air temperature where you are?
If it's low there must be a serious flow reduction to have the engine overheat.
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The air temperatur here's about 7-8 celsius, that's about 44-46 fahrenheit (use fahrenheit in the UK right?).
So, if one passage is completely blocked, would the degreaser open it?
Do I flush the system with the degreaser, or pour it in the system, then run the engine and drain after?
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Ok, I've booked time with a garage. I can't figure out what the problem is. I'll give an update on what the problem is/was, after I've been there, in case anybody else has a similar problem in the future:)
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My beloved car is in the shop now (finally), after 2 weeks waiting.
Will update with the problem:)
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When using degreaser in the cooling system, do you have to flush the sytem with a gardenhose afterwards? I have just used a degreaser, and ran the engine, and after a while some heat came from the heater in the car (hasn't happed before, since cir. problem). Then I waited 30 minutes and started the engine again, and this time more and more constant heat came. Then i waited another 30 min and drained the system (screw under the radiator) and put water inn instead. The heater then stopped giving heat, even thought the engine was starting to overheat! And I noticed that the hose from the thermostat to the radiator was scoulding hot, but the bottom hose from the rad. was cool. When I disconnected the bottom hose cold water came out. Does that mean all the oil has blocked the rad?
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It can take several "goes" and quite a long time to remove oil from a radiator ... the degreaser can only "attack" the surface every time and has to work its way through the .. possibly congealed ... muck :(
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So, how's the best way to get rid of it? Flush, then degreaser then flush and so on?
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Its a long time since I had to use a system degreaser but if memory serves (no rude comments plese !!) the instructions are on the package !!!
Many years back when I couldn't afford proper "stuff" I "obtained" :) some "low foaming detergent" from a mate who's mother was a cleaner and put a 25 % mix of that in a Cortina, left it idling for 5 hours then flushed thoroughly, did that 3 times until the flushing solution was clear ... sorted the problem out brilliantly :)
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I haven't found a degreaser that's for the coolant system, so I asked a garage and they told me what to use, and how much, so it doesn't say on the package:(
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Its a long time since I had to use a system degreaser but if memory serves (no rude comments plese !!) the instructions are on the package !!!
Many years back when I couldn't afford proper "stuff" I "obtained" :) some "low foaming detergent" from a mate who's mother was a cleaner and put a 25 % mix of that in a Cortina, left it idling for 5 hours then flushed thoroughly, did that 3 times until the flushing solution was clear ... sorted the problem out brilliantly :)
....you`d need a bank-loan to do that these days! :'(
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This problem must be very frustrating for you. Curing the problem is a lengthy job.
Flushing should solve the problem eventually, but remember that the oil will be very congealed and will resist breaking down in the narrowest parts of the circulation system, ie. radiator and heater matrix, and narrow pipes, ie. heater hoses etc. It sounds as if you are making progress if some heat is starting to get through to the heater, and you'll just have to persist, and run, flush, disconnect pipes and repeat as often as necessary. 'Massaging' the pipes whilst the engine is running may help to hurry up the break down process, but watch out for the danger of these bursting through softening because of the oil contamination. Wearing strong gloves would be wise.
The radiator is obviously the most important part to get clear first. You could run the car with a blocked heater if necessary, but you may have to consider changing the radiator as a final step.
If the garage trade in Norway is anything like here, you will pay a fortune for this work which you can clearly do yourself. Keep trying, and post the results.
Cheers,
Bill.
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if you do go for a new radiator, don't fit it until the system is clear.
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Thanks for the reply! I'll try to flush till my hands look like raisins, but it is very frustrating!!
I feel I've tried a hundred different things till now, but this is the first time something different has happened. I tried something called "radiator clean", but the garage told me it wouldn't do anything about the oil, and that I should try a degreaser mixed 50/50 with water (if I only used degreaser it could damage the engine:( ).
And I don't know how the garage priced are in the UK, but it's reeeeeealy expensive here. If you go to a proper Opel (Vauxhall) garage, the prices are rippoff >:(
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I'm afraid I can't remember the details, but somebody did post details of a product specially designed for this job, available on the Internet.
Hopefully they will see this and repeat the details, or you could start a new specific thread.
Good luck.
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Thanks for the reply! I'll try to flush till my hands look like raisins, but it is very frustrating!!
I feel I've tried a hundred different things till now, but this is the first time something different has happened. I tried something called "radiator clean", but the garage told me it wouldn't do anything about the oil, and that I should try a degreaser mixed 50/50 with water (if I only used degreaser it could damage the engine:( ).
And I don't know how the garage priced are in the UK, but it's reeeeeealy expensive here. If you go to a proper Opel (Vauxhall) garage, the prices are rippoff >:(
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The real problem here is that whilst most prices for labour are rip offs, it is almost impossible to find people who are competent enough to do good work. Their training seems to leave a lot to be desired.
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Now I have degreased my effing ass off! :)
The heater now works, and I sorted the EML I had :y
Now, when I start the car and push the gas pedal ( to make the waterpump work faster), there seems to be as build up of pressure in the col. system. When I feel on the hose from the thermostat to the rad. it's rock hard, and the same is the bottom hose from the rad. When I then take the filler cap on the eks. tank off the pressure is released and the hoses are easy again. Put the filler cap back, and slowly the pressure comes again. If the filler cap is off and the engine is running, no bubbles come in the coolant, but hear gurgling sound. Also see som sort of steam coming from eks. tank (with cap off), even though the coolant is cold/luke warm. Could this be exhaust? And then the HG?
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I'm gonna take a guess at the head gasket. Need to get it now before easter kicks inn, so I don't have to wait a week for the new gasket :'(
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I have just replaced the head gasket, taken off ALL the coolant hoses, thoroughly flushed them everyway possible, cleaned the cylinder block water channels (found parts of old rubber gasket inn there), cleaned the cylinder head, changed aux belt, cleaned breather hoses (inlet manifold), and STILL, it overheats. ALL the collant hoses, except the radiator bottom hose and the radiator itself gets scoulding hot. The radiator top hose (from thermostat to radiator) gets lukewarm.
This circulation problem has cost me about 50-60 hours of fruitless labour. I'm considering dumping the car :'(
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Are you relying on the car guage to tell you its overheating or are the fans cutting in and running all the time?
Reason I ask is my 3.0 MV6 was giving me concern as the guage was always up around the 100 mark but without the red overheat warning light or fans running. Turns out that a good tech2 session showed that the dash guage was not tech2 connected properly to the car. A reset with the correct information saw an instant drop of the running temp, as per the guage, down to proper levels....
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Yes I look at the car gauge. But also I feel the hoses, and when all the hoses are scoulding (except bottom rad. hose) I drain the rad and cold water comes out. The warm water doesn't want to enter the rad. The top rad hose gets lukewarm, and the rads cold, no matter how warm the other hoses are. It does sound like the rad core is blocked, but if I put a garden hose through the top hose, water comes out the bottom :-/ It's so frustrating! And the fan isn't starting at all, since there's no warm water to cool down :-[
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I would suggest a good session with a tech2 and a competent operator reading live data from the car.
Sounds similar to mine in that guage was waaaay too high and hoses seemed very hot and pressurised. Took TheBoy and M_DTM at a meet to find out that it was the guage that was not properly recognised by the ECU. Once the correct parameters were set, the needle visibly dropped by 5 or 8 degrees on the guage or more with no other work done.....
Could be the solution to your problems?
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Sorry if I sound a bit dim, but I don't understand what you mean? If the gauge isn't recognized by the ECU the water won't flow through? I changed the temp. sensor (actually that's when the problem started. changed temp. sensor and thermostat) a while ago. My temp. gauge on the dash doesn't stop at 100, I just goes up to the red area after a while :-[ Pitty I don't know anyone with a tech2
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I am not most clear on this myself, I can only recount what TB and M_DTM accomplished for me.
The guage on the dash relies on one temp sender in the engine and the ECU relies on another, seperate one, as I understand it. There needs to be some setting made such that both are reading 'similar' values and this requires tech2 intervention.
TB or M_DTM will be able to explain better, sorry...... :-/
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The guage on the dash relies on one temp sender in the engine and the ECU relies on another, seperate one, as I understand it. There needs to be some setting made such that both are reading 'similar' values and this requires tech2 intervention.
TB or M_DTM will be able to explain better, sorry...... :-/
I think I understood it as it's the dash that's at 'fault' & needs calibrating to the temp sensors.
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The guage on the dash relies on one temp sender in the engine and the ECU relies on another, seperate one, as I understand it. There needs to be some setting made such that both are reading 'similar' values and this requires tech2 intervention.
TB or M_DTM will be able to explain better, sorry...... :-/
I think I understood it as it's the dash that's at 'fault' & needs calibrating to the temp sensors.
In a nutshell, yes. The gauge incorrectly reports a high temperature which is in conflict with the info that the ECU is gathering, despite both reading the same water temperature from differring sensors....
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Don't give up!!! Sounds like you've done a load of work to get this far!
Somebody help this guy over the final hurdle! Must only be the radiator that's causing the problems now!?!
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In a nutshell, yes. The gauge incorrectly reports a high temperature which is in conflict with the info that the ECU is gathering, despite both reading the same water temperature from differring sensors....
Another example of being far too complex to achieve a simple end. Cars used to just have a temperature dependant resister that talked to a gauge .................. that was it!
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If the pressure builds up that quick, then it sounds like either the head gasket or a cracked head. As for the temperature going through the end stop of the gauge - another stupid question, but the thermostat is the right way round, isn't it? I can't think of any other way the bottom hose can get hot and the top hose not.
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Please don't give up! When you eventually crack this one there will be many people on here who will share your pleasure at your success.
You've done so much work now that your Omega will be in great shape once this problem is solved. You must be nearly there.
It really does sound like a blocked radiator matrix, even though some water is getting through when you flush it. Have you been able to establish whether the thermostat itself is working properly? The bottom hose would get hot through heat transferring back from the engine block even though it was not passing through the radiator.
As I mentioned in a previous reply, it looks like a replacement radiator might be the answer.
Keep right on to the end of the road. :y :y
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Thank you all for the support :)
Hmm, maybe a new rad is a good idea.
just to clarify: It's not the bottom hose that gets hot, it's all the other hoses. The only one that doesn't get hot is the rad bottom hose. The rad top hose gets lukewarm. Even the ex.tank gets scoulding. It's only the rad left, that's not getting hot.
Yes the thermostat is on the right way. It comes with a housing so it only goes on one way ;) (and I have tried running the car without the thermostat). I tried to test the thermostat (put in water and bring to boiling) and it opens, but I didn't have anything to measure the temp. with to see when it opens.
Maybe I should get a new radiator
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Thank you all for the support :)
Hmm, maybe a new rad is a good idea.
just to clarify: It's not the bottom hose that gets hot, it's all the other hoses. The only one that doesn't get hot is the rad bottom hose. The rad top hose gets lukewarm. Even the ex.tank gets scoulding. It's only the rad left, that's not getting hot.
Yes the thermostat is on the right way. It comes with a housing so it only goes on one way ;) (and I have tried running the car without the thermostat). I tried to test the thermostat (but in water and bring to boiling) and it opens, but I didn't have anything to measure the temp. with to see when it opens.
Maybe I should get a new radiator
You have had a hard time with this but it is still fixable.
Firstly, it is normal for the coolant system to pressurise as the water heats up and expands, that is why the header tank must only be half full.....the remaining air space is compressed by the expanding water. If the pressure was getting too high then the pressure relief valve built into the header tank cap would release coolant.
Your heater, throttle body and bypass hoses are getting hot so the pump is circulating coolant.
The top hose and radiator do not heat up so there is no coolant flow through them. Therefore, you either have a blocked radiator or a blockage in the radiator circuit or the thermostat is not opening.
The thermostat opens at around 95c, it takes quite a time to get to this temp when idling on a cold day....have you tried driving it?
If you remove the thermostat from the housing and drive the car does the radiator warm up?
Remove top and bottom hoses, check inside for any sign that the inner and outer layers or rubber have separated.....this can cause a blockage without any sign on the outside of the pipes.
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I have driven it (with the thermostat in) and it overheats, just faster then if standing still.
Oh, there is another symptom I don't understand. If I have the heater off, and the temp. gauge says 100, if I then turn on the heater the temp. gauge rises to about 105 :-/ Same happens if it's 90, or a 105. If I have the heater on, then turn it off and on again the temp. rises?
Usually (on other cars I have encountered) if the car starts to overheat, you should turn on the heater (on full heat) and the temp gauge goes down (thus cooling som of the water).
I could do this on this car before this problem, but not now. Does this tell anybody anything???
And, is it possible to test a radiator, or maybe dismantle it?
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When I had overheating problems with my 2.5, eventually I removed the radiator and took it for flow testing.
It was effectively blocked, flushing on the car was misleading as the water was probably passing through the auxiliary pump instead of the radiator.
Do you have Companies who repair/recore radiators?
Mine was recored and all problems solved.
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I do actually know of a company called Radiator service, so I'm guessing they recore.
I'm gonna try taking the rad to a tester.
If I put a garden hose through the top hose of the rad, and water comes out of the bottom hose, can it still be blocked?? Or is it only blocked if no water at all comes out?
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As I found, the core was blocked, flushing appeared to be bypassing the core, probably through the auxiliary pump.
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It really does sound like a blocked radiator core. I'm not completely certain about this, but if your heater is off, static water will still be heating up to differing high levels in parts of the system, (eg. the engine block perhaps), and as it is not being cooled through the radiator this could show a temporary increase on the temp. guage when you open the heater matrix until that hotter water mixes with the rest of the system and equalises in temp., albeit too high.
I'm not sure that's a good description of what I mean, but I hope you understand.
Don't you dare give up on this yet. :y
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i would defeinatly go for a new rad bud classic signs cold bottom hose !! :y :y
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I think I know what you mean, and no I haven't given up ::) I thought I should have my radiator testet, to se if it's working properly.
I does sound like my problem is the rad, but what confuses me is that when I disconnect the rad from the rest of the system, and put a garden hose through the top rad hose, water comes out of the bottom hose. Can it still be blocked then?
Or maybe sufficiently block for my problem? :)
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I think I know what you mean, and no I haven't given up ::) I thought I should have my radiator testet, to se if it's working properly.
I does sound like my problem is the rad, but what confuses me is that when I disconnect the rad from the rest of the system, and put a garden hose through the top rad hose, water comes out of the bottom hose. Can it still be blocked then?
Or maybe sufficiently block for my problem? :)
yes mate it will find a way round with higher pressure but when connected to engine pressure is lower and struggles to get round hence why it gets too hot !! :y
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New radiator, no change. Same problem :'(
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sorry, just read this.
I'm wondering about blockage along coolant transfer pipe or coolant bridge (or hbv), preventing circulation.
Additionally, the rad switches for fans are near top hose so they should come on when hot, though frequently fail after oil cooler...
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Hi,
I am only familiar with the 3.2 V6 engine, but have been following this very intriguing problem. More twists than watching Eastenders!!
I just wonder that at the very start when you did the engine change etc, have you used the correct head gasket, and is it the correct way up? maybe there is no passage from cyl block to cyl head? (as I say, don't know about your engine, but on 3.2 hot water exits engine from the cyl block)
You have done so much work and seeming tried just about everything it's surely got to be something so simple wer'e all missing it !!
Keep up the good work.
Roger
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Another stab in the dark (which may not even be relevant to this engine). You say the engine came from a Vectra. Is the water pump driven by the cam belt or the aux. belt on this engine?
I have seen engines where the aux belt run is different on different models, so the water pump turns the opposite way. This requires a different water pump since the impellers are angled incorrectly.
I'm wondering if the engine, as fitted to the Omega, therefore requires a different water pump and the pump you have is running backwards and thus not effective.
I said it was a stab in the dark, but you seem to have covered all obvious issues.
Has the head been off this engine, or was it a replacement after you changed the HG on the old engine?
Kevin
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Couple of other things to try:
Run it with the thermostat completely removed. Do you get circulation of warm water through the radiator hoses? Does it go the right way (top hose warm, bottom hose cooler)?
Bypass the heater circuit completely with a length of hose (taking out the HBV and everything else, so you just come out of the engine and back in). Does the system now flow coolant through this hose?
Kevin
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The new engine (from a Vectra) is identical to the old Omega engine I had. Only had to change sump, block brackets and inlet manifold. The new engine was complete with cylinder head fitted (I asked so I wouldn't need new head gasket and cyl. bolts:) ). The water exits from the cyllinder head through a coolant bridge (think it's called that), and on the coolant bridge the thermostat is fitted. Then now in easter times I decided to change Headgasket (just so I could rule that out), in addition I fitted my old cylinder head (since I new it worked properly). The HG is the right way ut :y It's printed on the gasket witch way's up:) (and I tripple checked too ;D), and I cleaned the block water channels and the new cylinder head since I was down there.
The waterpump is driven by the timing belt (cambelt), and I compared the waterpump already fitted to the new engine with the pump from the old Omega engine.
I haven't tried bypassing the heater circuit, so I'll try that, and see want happens. I'll try just about anything, cause I don't know what else to try:)
witch is the coolant transfer pipe? and with the coolant bridge, if I disconnect the retur hose (one that goes from CB to inlet man. and then continues to eks. tank) hot water comes out. It's fitted right before the thermostat.
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OK. As I said, a stab in the dark. :(
There should also be bypass flow through the thermostat housing. Sometimes this is provided by the heater circuit, sometimes there is a separate hose or two, perhaps routed from the thermostat housing through the throttle body down to the bottom hose connection (pump inlet). (wish I knew this engine better)
If the bypass flow is not there due to a blockage, etc. and the thermostat is on an external housing, which it sounds like it is, it could be that the thermostat doesn't respond to true engine temperature becase it is sitting in a "dead end" of cold coolant. It's vital that the base of the thermostat has coolant circulating around it when the 'stat is closed, son that it responds quickly to coolant temperature.
I'm not sure how this happens on this engine but perhaps a faulty HBV or something is preventing this bypass flow - hence the suggestion to bypass the heater circuit. Running it without the stat temporarily will also eliminate this as a sanity check that the coolant is being pumped around OK.
Kevin
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Don't let's forget that the start of this problem was oil contamination of the cooling system. I haven't experienced this (yet :-?), but know that clearing the narrower parts of the system can be very very difficult. Have you found and used the specialist degreaser to which I referred in an earlier post?
Was the replacement radiator brand new or had it seen previous service?
BTW, the coolant transfer pipe is the metal tube connecting the thermostatat housing to the top radiator hose, (it runs through a tunnel in the block), and the coolant bridge is at the back of the V connecting the two cylinder heads.
Kevin Wood's 'by-pass' suggestion should provide some more clues.
I know we all seem to be clutching at straws now, but have you actually removed all the hoses, (even large bore ones), to be certain that they are quite free of obstructions.
The only other thing I can suggest is to bring the car over to the Lake District meet and let everyone have a go at it. ;D
Sorry to be frivolous. :-[ I do hope you get this sorted out soon. it must be driving you mad.
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I've just remembered that this is a 2.0l engine, so i don't think my comments about the coolant transfer pipe etc. applies. Sorry!.
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Well, my fantastically long thread is back :) I had the car at one garage, waited 2 weeks so they could look at it, when they finally did, the recommended another garage that had more experience with Opel, so then I waited another 2 weeks for THEM to look at it. They changed the rad thermo- switches, and said that now there is some circ. but not enough. That the fan didn't cut in till about 100 Celsius. I took the car out of there (right after they ripped my arm of for payment), and found out: still no circulation, and the fan DIDN'T cut in.
Now I have resumed degreasing and flushing, and it seems that there's still (after already 10 ltr of degreaser) alot of gunk in the system.
And then I noticed today, when the car was running, I tried turning on the A/C and suddenly the rad fan came on with the A/C fan, and the car cooled down!! When I turned of the A/C the rad fan stopped too, and when I turned it on again the rad fan came on again!??! It cooled the car down to 70 Celsius (then I turned the A/C off).
When I turn on the A/C (push the A/C button in the car) are both fans supposed to start?? I thought it was only the A/C fan behind the front/grill that was supposed to start, to cope with the extra heat?? Or have garage no. 2 done a wrong turn with the wiring??
At least I am happy now 8-)
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The fans are indeed supposed to run with the A/C on. If the fans don't come on with the A/C off, even when the engine is overheating, and it behaves OK with the A/C on, it points to the fan switch in the radiator. Might be worth removing it and checking that the surface is not contaminated with oil, and if that doesn't help, replacing it.
Kevin
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So both fans are supposed to start? Just to clarify :) : The radiator fan hangs on the radiator (between the radiator and the engine), on the other side of the radiator (between grill and radiator) sits what looks like another radiator (is that the heater exchange?), and on the outside of that again (between grille and rad no.2) sits the other fan (what I call the A/C fan).
Both those fans are supposed to start?
I will check the thermo- switches:) Is there any way of testing them? Dipping them in boiling water maybe, and see if the fan goes on?
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Not sure what fans are supposed to run on a 4 pot. On the v6 there are 2 fans in front of the rad that run with A/C. The one behind the rad. only runs with increased engine temperature.
You can sometimes test a fan switch by suspending it in boiling water but the trigger temperature is so close to boiling point it's not a 100% accurate test. It will certainly need to be in a pan of boiling water for a few minutes to get it to switch.
Best way is to take it off the car and put a multimeter on ohms across the contacts while it's in a pot of water on the stove.
Kevin
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Thanks! I will try taking it off and use a multimeter. What is Ohms?? And do you know when the switch is supposed to trigger?
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.....What is Ohms?? ......
Resistance. the symbol is a horse shoe shape, appropiately called Omega. ;) (http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:MGJYs0yNZ01CEM:)
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To prove its fan switch (which often fails after getting oil/coolant mix), unplug it and short the loom out with paperclip. If fans come on, then your issue is faulty switch, or the switch isn't getting hot enough.
If you have oil in coolant, Forte do a special coolant cleaning solution that is quite good, call Forte coolant cleaner for oil cooler failures or something. Forte's normal coolant flush is good for general dirty coolant.
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The boy wrote:
To prove its fan switch (which often fails after getting oil/coolant mix), unplug it and short the loom out with paperclip. If fans come on, then your issue is faulty switch, or the switch isn't getting hot enough.
I have tried to short the look, and the fan came on:)
I just read in my Haynes manual, the fan I was talking about earlier, is attached to the condenser :)
So, when I turn the A/C on (push the button in the car) the condenser fan and the radiator fan starts. Are both supposed to start?
Sorry if I'm nagging, just tired of this problem and don't want to missunderstand :)
Also (in my head), when the car is almost overheating, and I turn the rad fan on (via the A/C) and the car cools down, that means that there is som circulation. Since the the cooling happens in the radiator, and the temp sender unit is mounted before the radiator (meaning the cooled coolant needs to go through the whole engine to get to the temp sender). Does that seem right? Or am I way off??
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Not sure about both fans with A/C, hopefully another owner can check.
If the fans can control it, I'd be looking at efficiency of rad. If fans aren't coming on until 100C, I'd be looking at fan switch.
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Today was the first time I could drive the car home since december, the car has been at my parents house (they have a garage, and garden hose) and there was no problems whatsoever:) When I drove on the freeway the air through the grille sufficently cooled the engine down, and when the temperatur went over 90 C, I turned on the A/C and the temp went down again 8-)
So, PROGRESS!!
But, when the car is hot, and I turn it off, it won't start till is cold again.. Sounds like the battery is flat when I try to start again, but I have measure the battery, and it isn't flat?
And, when measuring ohms (resistance), what should the reader show? (I am thinking of the thermo- swiches)