Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: marinis69 on 02 June 2008, 23:00:05

Title: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: marinis69 on 02 June 2008, 23:00:05
It apears that the engine started to run only on 4 cilinders. Doing 10mpg and has no power at all. Very shaky. I have changed coil pack, leads, and spark plugs but nothing got better. Have send ECU to check coz havent got a clues what else might be. EGR works fine. Engine diagnostic didn't come up with any codes. Just dont know what to do. Any ideas???
THAnks
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2008, 23:05:10
If paperclip test comes back blank, its normally HT related,  Check exhaust for blocking as well.
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: Entwood on 02 June 2008, 23:05:15
Check plug wells for oil, and the DIS pack at the back for "dryness".

The v6 uses a "wasted spark" system so that HT goes to 2 plugs at the same time, even though only one needs it, thus any HT breakdown tends to affect 2 cylinders at the same time.

Cam cover gasket leaks can fill the plug wells with oil and cause shorting, water leaks fromt he HBV or the scuttle can get to the DIS pack and also cause shorting.

The EML light will not detect HT problems as it does not monitor the HT side.
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: marinis69 on 02 June 2008, 23:09:31
Exhaust is fine. Have removed both cats and its still the same. No oil leak on plugs at all. No water leaks as well. Where does the coil pack gets the signal from ???
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: TheBoy on 02 June 2008, 23:17:24
Quote
Exhaust is fine. Have removed both cats and its still the same. No oil leak on plugs at all. No water leaks as well. Where does the coil pack gets the signal from ???
Direct from ECU
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: marinis69 on 02 June 2008, 23:19:01
so it might be ecu fault.
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: caolan_p on 03 June 2008, 10:00:06
i have the same prob with mine and i got 2 new disc packs they were both faulty so they are getting me an upgrade on wed so il hope it works  :y
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 June 2008, 14:10:56
I trust that when you fitted the new DIS pack you paid close attention to the lead connectiosn for the 2-4-6 bank as thye do not connect in a logical order.......
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: marinis69 on 03 June 2008, 21:34:15
I dont know actualy :) It wasn't me who fitted it. I dont think that mechanic was stupid enough to mix the sequence
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: Lazydocker on 03 June 2008, 21:47:13
Quote
I dont know actualy :) It wasn't me who fitted it. I dont think that mechanic was stupid enough to mix the sequence

Don't count on it... Everyone's done it at some point!!!
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: perfferle on 03 June 2008, 22:30:39
Personally, I would go back to basics and check that sparks are present at all the plug wires. You can use an old sparkplug (any type) for this check and have someone turn the ignition keyswitch and crank the engine while you look for sparking for each HT plug lead.
At least you will know if you are getting sparks which is a good start. If not then you may have a fuel system fault.
 :y
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: caolan_p on 04 June 2008, 13:42:12
Quote
It apears that the engine started to run only on 4 cilinders. Doing 10mpg and has no power at all. Very shaky. I have changed coil pack, leads, and spark plugs but nothing got better. Have send ECU to check coz havent got a clues what else might be. EGR works fine. Engine diagnostic didn't come up with any codes. Just dont know what to do. Any ideas???
THAnks
I just put my new coil pack in there now in it is still running as if it still of a cylinder, the computer showed it was of cyl1 and cyl4 last week :( :(any one els have any other thoughts????
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: Markjay on 04 June 2008, 14:55:33
Did you check the condition of the spark plugs in cyl 1 and 4, i.e. are they oily? And are they in general good order?

Can you do a cylinder compression test to ensure it is not valve or head-gasket issue etc?

Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: caolan_p on 04 June 2008, 16:24:52
Quote
Did you check the condition of the spark plugs in cyl 1 and 4, i.e. are they oily? And are they in general good order?

Can you do a cylinder compression test to ensure it is not valve or head-gasket issue etc?

 
all new plugs in it...How do i do this - can you do a cylinder compression test to ensure it is not valve or head-gasket issue etc
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: Markjay on 04 June 2008, 22:55:17
Quote
Quote
Did you check the condition of the spark plugs in cyl 1 and 4, i.e. are they oily? And are they in general good order?

Can you do a cylinder compression test to ensure it is not valve or head-gasket issue etc?

 
all new plugs in it...How do i do this - can you do a cylinder compression test to ensure it is not valve or head-gasket issue etc

The compression test is used to compare the compression between the cylinders. If one or more have significantly lower compression than the others, the reasons could be burnt or leaking valves, or worn compression rings. Adding a spoonful of engine oil into the plug hole and repeating the test will help identify the problem - if the compression rises following the oil addition then the problem is with the compression rings, if it does not then it is with the top part i.e. valves.

Other causes for low or no compression are wrong timing (though this would typically affect all cylinders), or blown head gaskets. If two adjacent cylinders have low compression, it is possible that the gasket has blown between the two cylinders.

The test is done by removing the fuel pump fuse and allowing the engine to idle and die out (you don't want fresh petrol flooding the cylinders and contaminating the cats), then removing all spark plugs, removing the HT leads to avoid spark, throttle fully open, stick the compression gauge into each plug hole one at the time and crank the engine a few times until the reading peaks.

If you have a screw-on compression gauge, as opposed to a press-on one, you can do it yourself and don't need a helper.

The reason for this test is that the engine needs four things (at the right time) to fire: fuel, air, compression, and spark. If one cylinder does not work, then it would typically be due to lack of any of the above....


Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: Entwood on 04 June 2008, 23:03:04
Excellent description that ....  :y :y :y :y

however ....  :(

this is a V6 engine .. so 1 & 4 are on different banks .. so a head gasket is highly unlikely .. :(

Due to the "wasted spark" system .. 1 & 4  both get a spark at the same time every cycle, only one uses it each time (compression) the other ignores it (exhaust) .. this seems to point very strongly at an HT problem ..

As the DIS has been changed   and I assume correctly and serviceable,  it could be a lead/plug breaking down and causing loss of spark on both simultaneously.

Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: caolan_p on 05 June 2008, 10:33:15
Quote
Excellent description that ....  :y :y :y :y

however ....  :(

this is a V6 engine .. so 1 & 4 are on different banks .. so a head gasket is highly unlikely .. :(

Due to the "wasted spark" system .. 1 & 4  both get a spark at the same time every cycle, only one uses it each time (compression) the other ignores it (exhaust) .. this seems to point very strongly at an HT problem ..

As the DIS has been changed   and I assume correctly and serviceable,  it could be a lead/plug breaking down and causing loss of spark on both simultaneously.

Thanks for the replys :y,i dont no what the HT is and what part of the exhaust do i check??
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: Markjay on 05 June 2008, 12:04:16
Quote
Quote
Excellent description that ....  :y :y :y :y

however ....  :(

this is a V6 engine .. so 1 & 4 are on different banks .. so a head gasket is highly unlikely .. :(

Due to the "wasted spark" system .. 1 & 4  both get a spark at the same time every cycle, only one uses it each time (compression) the other ignores it (exhaust) .. this seems to point very strongly at an HT problem ..

As the DIS has been changed   and I assume correctly and serviceable,  it could be a lead/plug breaking down and causing loss of spark on both simultaneously.

Thanks for the replys :y,i dont no what the HT is and what part of the exhaust do i check??

HT is short for High Tension and refers to the six thick black leads going from the DIS pack (prev. known as 'Distributor') to the spark plugs.

Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: marinis69 on 07 June 2008, 19:27:37
anyway can it be ECU ??? coz I have put a second hand DIS and still the same. I just dont want to buy new DIS for 100 quid and it will make no diference. although I am not sure if my second hand DIS is perfect.
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: TheBoy on 07 June 2008, 19:33:56
Quote
anyway can it be ECU ??? coz I have put a second hand DIS and still the same. I just dont want to buy new DIS for 100 quid and it will make no diference. although I am not sure if my second hand DIS is perfect.
Never seen a failed Motronic ECU.

Check continuity between ecu and DIS.  And double and treble check the leads are fitted in right order on DIS.
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: marinis69 on 07 June 2008, 19:53:16
well just an hour ago I striped all the engine in parts. Leads are connected by the numbers as it says on DIS number 1 to cil1 2 to cil2 and so on. the problem is that I have year 2000 omega cd model and it has absolutely diferent coil pack as this Elite. And there are 3 diferent types of them one vertical and two horizontals. I was just thinkin maybe there is somewhere a special tweak made for Elite model coz the engine is the same as CD model just the coil pack diferent.... I am loosin hope. Three weeks already playin with it and see no light in the tunnel. Anyway monday will try new coil pack. it might work. hopefuly.
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: TheBoy on 07 June 2008, 20:12:47
Quote
well just an hour ago I striped all the engine in parts. Leads are connected by the numbers as it says on DIS number 1 to cil1 2 to cil2 and so on. the problem is that I have year 2000 omega cd model and it has absolutely diferent coil pack as this Elite. And there are 3 diferent types of them one vertical and two horizontals. I was just thinkin maybe there is somewhere a special tweak made for Elite model coz the engine is the same as CD model just the coil pack diferent.... I am loosin hope. Three weeks already playin with it and see no light in the tunnel. Anyway monday will try new coil pack. it might work. hopefuly.
3 different coil packs, purely decided by age.
Title: Re: MISSFIRE !!!
Post by: marinis69 on 10 June 2008, 11:33:11
YAHOOO :) everything sorted. Just dont undertand why 2 out of 3 coil packs were faulty. Third one sorted the problem ! :) Thanks for everyone help !!