Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Dusty on 05 July 2008, 20:14:40
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Recently bought a 2.6 Omega.
I know it has Traction Control, but does it also have an ESP or equivalent system?
By this I mean electronics that can cut power to individual wheels and brake them in order to counter understeer and oversteer.
Or does it just cut power to the rear wheels when they spin?
Thank you
:-/ :-/
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no ESP on UK models.
TC only.
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Recently bought a 2.6 Omega.
I know it has Traction Control, but does it also have an ESP or equivalent system?
By this I mean electronics that can cut power to individual wheels and brake them in order to counter understeer and oversteer.
Or does it just cut power to the rear wheels when they spin?
Thank you
:-/ :-/
Yup, the Omega only has t.c
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TC only. And a bit crude as well if you ask me, but it does work.
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As far as I understand it, later cars with 4 channel ABS (so why did my earlier Senator already have 4 ABS sensors? ;)) also use the brakes aswell to curb wheel spin if backing off via the engine ECU isn't enough.
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post 98 cars apply brake to spinning rear wheel, then cut power if still slipping.
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As far as I understand it, later cars with 4 channel ABS (so why did my earlier Senator already have 4 ABS sensors? ;)) also use the brakes aswell to curb wheel spin if backing off via the engine ECU isn't enough.
same reason that all abs cars do - detect locking on any wheel. earlier systems only had 3 channels so released both back brakes together if one rear started to lock ;)
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....same reason that all abs cars do - detect locking on any wheel. earlier systems only had 3 channels so released both back brakes together if one rear started to lock ;)
My 1986 Carlton only had 3 channel ABS so why the apparent step backwards when the Omega appeared, when the Carlton/Senator ABS had progressed to looking at all 4 wheels?
GM couldn't really have saved that much by leaving a sensor off the back - could they?
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....same reason that all abs cars do - detect locking on any wheel. ....
Some cheap run-a-bouts only have 2 channel ABS! ie just on the front wheels ;) ;)
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....same reason that all abs cars do - detect locking on any wheel. earlier systems only had 3 channels so released both back brakes together if one rear started to lock ;)
My 1986 Carlton only had 3 channel ABS so why the apparent step backwards when the Omega appeared, when the Carlton/Senator ABS had progressed to looking at all 4 wheels?
GM couldn't really have saved that much by leaving a sensor off the back - could they?
The senator was a 3 channel system.
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....same reason that all abs cars do - detect locking on any wheel. earlier systems only had 3 channels so released both back brakes together if one rear started to lock ;)
My 1986 Carlton only had 3 channel ABS so why the apparent step backwards when the Omega appeared, when the Carlton/Senator ABS had progressed to looking at all 4 wheels?
GM couldn't really have saved that much by leaving a sensor off the back - could they?
The senator was a 3 channel system.
No it wasn't! There was a sensor either side of the diff. Off to find my Senator Haynes! ;) ;)
You have pm re something else! ;)
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....same reason that all abs cars do - detect locking on any wheel. earlier systems only had 3 channels so released both back brakes together if one rear started to lock ;)
My 1986 Carlton only had 3 channel ABS so why the apparent step backwards when the Omega appeared, when the Carlton/Senator ABS had progressed to looking at all 4 wheels?
GM couldn't really have saved that much by leaving a sensor off the back - could they?
The senator was a 3 channel system.
No it wasn't! There was a sensor either side of the diff. Off to find my Senator Haynes! ;) ;)
You have pm re something else! ;)
It had 4 sensors to detect if a back wheel was about to skid. But it controlled back wheels together as a pair. So 3 channel. Just like early Omegas (up to MY98). All Omegas have 4 wheel sensors as well.
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....It had 4 sensors to detect if a back wheel was about to skid. But it controlled back wheels together as a pair. So 3 channel. Just like early Omegas (up to MY98). All Omegas have 4 wheel sensors as well.
Go then. I'll bow to your superior knowledge! ;) It's something that I'd just assumed when I saw 4 sensors, the face lift Mk1 Carlton did only have 3. The third was built into the top of the diff & looked at the crownwheel.
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....It had 4 sensors to detect if a back wheel was about to skid. But it controlled back wheels together as a pair. So 3 channel. Just like early Omegas (up to MY98). All Omegas have 4 wheel sensors as well.
Go then. I'll bow to your superior knowledge! ;) It's something that I'd just assumed when I saw 4 sensors, the face lift Mk1 Carlton did only have 3. The third was built into the top of the diff & looked at the crownwheel.
not familar with carlton setup, but that would have to wait for both rears to lock before detection :-/
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.....not familar with carlton setup, but that would have to wait for both rears to lock before detection :-/
I'm talking 1986 C reg 2.2 cih Carlton NOT Omega A. Apparently very rare.
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.....not familar with carlton setup, but that would have to wait for both rears to lock before detection :-/
I'm talking 1986 C reg 2.2 cih Carlton NOT Omega A. Apparently very rare.
yes, i know.
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....yes, i know.
Just checking! ;) :y
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3 channel/4 channel refers to how many chamber there are on the ABS unit - 3 channel has 2 fronts, one rear; 4 channel a bit obvious.
4 channel is obviously better, but due to the individual wheel control can be used for ESP-style control as well.
If i remember correctly, 3 channel would (as TB said) would look for both rears locked up before acting on the back brakes.
The most primitive version must have been the old mechanical 2 channel on RS Escorts...belts, i ask you?!?!?
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The most primitive version must have been the old mechanical 2 channel on RS Escorts...belts, i ask you?!?!?
Derived from the same set-up that the Intercepter used in the 60's. At the time it was the best available although as you suggest, silly con chips had arrived on the scene by the time the Escort had arrived! :y
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3 channel/4 channel refers to how many chamber there are on the ABS unit - 3 channel has 2 fronts, one rear; 4 channel a bit obvious.
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I never looked any further than the sensor either side of the diff when just assumed it'd be 4 channel. As I say, my Mk1 Carlton had 3 sensors for its 3 channel set up so ......
Never assume ..... ;D ;D ;D
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ESP was available from factory since Nov.2001. I do not know which market had it as an option, but one could think that adding ESP is not that difficult; same components, jus to add some sensors? and re-program... But then again, who needs one? TC is enough to help me in the winter time :) 2,6 does not have the power to spin wheels on dry asphalt (at least not an auto, or is there something wrong with mine?)
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Not sure if it was ever offered as a UK option.
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also guessing it would be a replacement ABS
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Thanks guys. Dont pretend to understand everything you have all spoken of,but i get most of it.
You certainly know your Omegas. :y :y :y
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I always drive with Traction Control off, well at least the light is off and if I press the button the light goes on.
However, during some rather enthuiastic driving through Adenau Forst in 2nd gear, the TC light was flashing like mad.
So does it overide the driver when you have it OFF, if you reach a certain point of loss of traction (more so than when ON)? Or is mine just broken (light going off isn't actually turning TC off)? It was certainly sliding about a fair bit but that was more to do with the speed of the car through bends, rather than lighting the rear up via the throttle.
EFA
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I always drive with Traction Control off, well at least the light is off and if I press the button the light goes on.
However, during some rather enthuiastic driving through Adenau Forst in 2nd gear, the TC light was flashing like mad.
So does it overide the driver when you have it off, if you reach a certain point of loss of traction (more so than when on)? Or is mine just broken (light going off isn't actually turning TC off)? It was certainly sliding about a fair bit but that was more to do with the speed of the car trough bends, rather than lightly rear up via the throttle.
Light off means TC ON. Light on means TC disabled. Light flashing means TC switched on, and your giving it a little bit too much large
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LOL!! Bugger, well that explains it then!
Still it was probably a good thing that I had it on in hindsight..... ;)
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LOL!! Bugger, well that explains it then!
Still it was probably a good thing that I had it on in hindsight..... ;)
Mine stays enabled except when I want to play. It resets to enabled at every switch on anyway
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The most primitive version must have been the old mechanical 2 channel on RS Escorts...belts, i ask you?!?!?
Derived from the same set-up that the Intercepter used in the 60's. At the time it was the best available although as you suggest, silly con chips had arrived on the scene by the time the Escort had arrived! :y
Granted -in the 60's most radios were still valve driven. But in the 80's? Must have been 10p cheaper, knowing Ford's accountants...
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...... But in the 80's? Must have been 10p cheaper, knowing Ford's accountants...
IIRC the electrickery type that we all now know & trust was £1000 option. The 'V' belt driven set up was £400. I don't know why those figures have stuck :-[ probably the same reason I can still remember that s=ut+1/2atsquared :-[ ;D ;D
I've also read that the belt driven type was a derivation itself on ABS that was developed for planes. As planes got slimmer, the room available for the landing gear also got smaller so wheels had to become slimmer. Planes then started to burst tyres as they landed 'cos the pilots had less 'feel' of what was happening on the ground due to other assistance, so planes crashed. ABS was developed to try to help. V belt system was the best they were able to come up with untill modern systems were developed.
Entwood will probably be able to confirm or tell me I'm talking out of my 4r$e! ;) :y :y
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...... But in the 80's? Must have been 10p cheaper, knowing Ford's accountants...
IIRC the electrickery type that we all now know & trust was £1000 option. The 'V' belt driven set up was £400. I don't know why those figures have stuck :-[ probably the same reason I can still remember that s=ut+1/2atsquared :-[ ;D ;D
I knew you were old ... but related to Sir Issac ???
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I think you'll find the original ABS systems were developed for the English Electric Lightning which had so thin wings that the tyres were at very high pressure because of their narrow size to fit in the wings! If memory serves correct it was designed/built by Ferguson the same people who dabbled with 4WD Senators and Monza's in the 80's. If memory serves correct!!
When you have such a high pressure tyre you can't afford any lockups as the additional heat would burst the tyre with the obviously disastrous consequences :o
The English Electric Lightning, the last of the Interceptors....!
Humpy
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Quote from Motor magazine Joune 12 1982
Road test Jaguar XJS HE 5.3.
For powerful rear wheel drive cars,the answer may be to fit an electronic anti wheelspin device which works like an anti lock brake in reverse.
26 years of progress? :y :y
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Quote from Motor magazine Joune 12 1982
Road test Jaguar XJS HE 5.3.
For powerful rear wheel drive cars,the answer may be to fit an electronic anti wheelspin device which works like an anti lock brake in reverse.
26 years of progress? :y :y
He He. The TWR tuned version I once test drove had a large lump of concrete bolted to the boot floor in an attempt to get the power down. ;D
Kevin