Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Derek_in_Penzance on 03 July 2008, 17:59:09
-
I've done a search for Safe and also for Check and nothing comes up opn the threads, so sorry if I'm asking something that is obvious...
Just finished my nightmare ABS ECU replacement/RH exhaust manifold gasket replacement job. Everything is back together again, on turning on ignition the display shows Coolant Low and SAFE. Car won't start (Omega 3.0 Elite 1998). The Owner's Handbook says nothing about SAFE mode but I'm assuming that the system thinks the coolant level is too low and won't let me start the engine (although it turns over). The coolant level is not too low -it is full right up -but I gather that the level sensor may be faulty.
Am I thinking right? In which case I need to fiddle with the plug and and/or coolant level switch and persuade the car that it is OK to start.
There are no other warning signs that I know of, eg engine warning symbol is not flashing.
-
SAFE will be the stereo in safe mode as you no doubt disconnected the battery for a while??
-
Yes, the battery has been off for two weeks!
-
Yes, the battery has been off for two weeks!
do a paper clip test mate and post results ! :y
-
And your coolant low is the float switch in the bottle that's palying up. To prove, just short across the plug as you would a Senator/Carlton header tank.
If your car won't start you've other problems.
-
And your coolant low is the float switch in the bottle that's palying up. To prove, just short across the plug as you would a Senator/Carlton header tank.
If your car won't start you've other problems.
OK thanks, I will do paperclip test and see what it shows. I never imagined it would start first time -that would have been just too much to hope for! Watch this space...
-
Just double check all your connections that you have disturbed, you may well have left one off, its easily done on these things ;)
-
Paperclip test shows 19 -Incorrect RPM signal.
No other faults shown.
Maybe I have left a wire or plug disconnected?
I'll go and check.
-
19 shows crankshaft failure...is failing or has failed...as you cant start the car, suggest its the second one...but check its connected ok and you havent somehow dislodged it...
-
19 shows crankshaft failure...is failing or has failed...as you cant start the car, suggest its the second one...but check its connected ok and you havent somehow dislodged it...
OK will do, thanks for the help. I'll have to try later tonight or first thing tomorrow now, as I have to go to the supermarket.
-
They go anyway - so may be worth getting another
-
Well, paperclip test says crank sensor, advice on here is that they fail, so I've ordered a new one. I moved the original when trying to undo the oil pipes....tried to move the oil pipes to get the water pipe off the back... had to get the water pipe off to get at my RH exhaust manifold...you get the picture. Then it turned out that it wasn't the manifold gasket blowing after all, but a thick rubber coupling piece on the Secondary Air Injection exhaust takeoff pipe. It was split. But I couldn't see that when the engine was all together (and with LPG stuff also in the way) and I didn't even know it existed. So I jumped to a conclusion which turned out to be wrong. I could have saved myself all this heartache if I'd only known!
Anyway, so I've spent most of this late evening searching for the elusive plug on the end of the sensor lead, which is supposed to be at the back of the engine. Can't find it. Eventually, after having dismantled half the back end again, I twig that it has already been relocated (as per advice on this site). It's down by the steering idler, cable tied to brake pipes, with the lead wrapped around the exhaust. So it's a pretty sure bet that it was on the verge of failing and me moving it finished it off.
Why did GM decide to put all this stuff at the back of the engine, then cover it up with the scuttle cover? I'm sure there's a good reason but I am sure that this V6 engine has driven car mechanics bonkers. I know that given time I will cope with all the ins and outs, and I'm learning fast, but it's going to be a knuckle-grazed learning curve.
So, hopefully our local motor factors will deliver tomorrow, and I'll be fitting it tomorrow, trusting that my Omega will be running again by this time Friday evening! I will position it as per advice in the Maintenance section, avoiding the hot exhaust pipes etc.
Somebody please tell me that it's all going to be worth it... I've only had the car three weeks and I am tearing my hair out already ::) :'(
-
Good stuff mate, as for safe mode...ignition in position II, turn radio off, holding down AS button turn radio back on keeping hold of AS until it beeps (about 3 secs), enter code using 1 2 3 4 5 6 buttons, press AS again to store and off you go...
-
I have now fitted a new crankshaft sensor. Still no go. Help! (3.0 Omega 1998 mini-facelift with LPG).
The EML was showing code 19 -crank sensor. No other codes showing. It still shows 19 -is that because the fault is still there or because I have not wiped the fault code from the ECU memory (how do I do that?).
Not sure where to go from here... these cars are a nightmare!
I imagined that the car would fire up straight away, even though the 19 fault code is still stored. If I've done nothing wrong with the crank sensor then maybe there is some other additional fault that does not show up on the paperclip test.
Any ideas? Thanks!
-
I have now fitted a new crankshaft sensor. Still no go. Help! (3.0 Omega 1998 mini-facelift with LPG).
The EML was showing code 19 -crank sensor. No other codes showing. It still shows 19 -is that because the fault is still there or because I have not wiped the fault code from the ECU memory (how do I do that?).
Not sure where to go from here... these cars are a nightmare!
I imagined that the car would fire up straight away, even though the 19 fault code is still stored. If I've done nothing wrong with the crank sensor then maybe there is some other additional fault that does not show up on the paperclip test.
Any ideas? Thanks!
back to basics. fuel? spark?
-
I have now fitted a new crankshaft sensor. Still no go. Help! (3.0 Omega 1998 mini-facelift with LPG).
The EML was showing code 19 -crank sensor. No other codes showing. It still shows 19 -is that because the fault is still there or because I have not wiped the fault code from the ECU memory (how do I do that?).
Not sure where to go from here... these cars are a nightmare!
I imagined that the car would fire up straight away, even though the 19 fault code is still stored. If I've done nothing wrong with the crank sensor then maybe there is some other additional fault that does not show up on the paperclip test.
Any ideas? Thanks!
back to basics. fuel? spark?
Yes, looks like it -just wanted to make sure that I hadn't missed something peculiar to Omegas like having to open and shut the bonnet six times while dancing a jig before the car would agree to start.
OK -back to basics then. Probably I have left a wire or a plug off somewhere. I'll see whether I have a spark first, then fuel.
-
All so tight so they can drop a complete lump in.
Where do you get LPG from?
-
All so tight so they can drop a complete lump in.
Where do you get LPG from?
I haven't got as far as buying any LPG yet. At the rate I am going, I may never do so. Instead the car may end up in pieces. But I'm not giving up yet...
There is no spark, fault code insists that there is still code 19 -interruption of crankshaft sensor circuit (according to Haynes Fault Codes book). Having just fitted a new sensor, and cleared the original fault code by disconnecting battery for 5 minutes, code 19 still persists. The three wires from the sensor all go to the injection ECU and earth so I am now thinking that one wire has become damaged between the sensor plug and the ECU. This figures as I did push it about a bit in the battery/relay box area when replacing my ABS ECU.
There are no other fault codes.
Before looking at the crank sensor, I did check the plug to the ignition coil pack and all seems OK -there is power to the 2.5mm black wire Pin 4 (I think) when I turn the ignition on. So all it is waiting for (I think) is the signal from the crank sensor to generate a spark.
That's all I can think of so far tonight. I'm going home to clear my head and tackle it again when I feel inspired.
Good news on one front -the speedo and rev counter needles flicker when I turn the ignition on, so maybe the ABS ECU repair has been successful and it has come back to life!
-
(3.0 Elite 1998)
So this afternoon I did a continuity test on the three wires that go from the crank sensor plug to the engine ECU (according to the wiring diagram). All showed no continuity, as per fault code 19. I can't quite figure this out. It's as if a plug is disconnected, but I can't for the life of me see any plug in the short section of wire that goes from the crank sensor plug straight to the ECU, disappearing in the thick mass of main loom wires as it does so.
The car has LPG, so I thought maybe this wire has been interrupted, for a takeoff to the LPG brains, but I can't see anything.
I'm going to bypass the whole lot with some new wiring straight from the ECU pins to the crank sensor plug. Is there any reason why I should not do this?
Before I do I suppose I'd better try to check the wires where they go into the plug, as it does happen that pins get dislodged -but all three of them? I'm flummoxed! The plug by the way is not where it is supposed to be, it is cable tied to brake pipes just above the steering idler.
Before I started on this major job (ABS ECU replacement and RH exhaust manifold "blow") the car was running fine, other than no speedo etc, so it's obviously something that I've done that has caused this problem. :-[
-
Welcome back to my nightmare! Just to remind readers, it's an April 1998 mini-facelift 3.0 Omega Elite Estate. I bought it with a duff ABS ECU and a blow from the exhaust. I drove about 30 miles trying it out and it ran fine on petrol and LPG. So I then fixed the two major faults. After much work, new oil, water, etc, all ready to fire up -and nothing. No spark. Paperclip test shows 19 -interruption/failure? of crank sensor/circuit. No other faults show, not even 31, engine not running.
So I buy a new crank sensor and fit it. Still no joy. Realise that 19 is "interruption of rpm signal" according to Haynes manual, so I do a continuity test on the wires that go from the sensor plug to the ECU. Brown, grey/red, grey/black. No continuity on any of the three wires. Strange. So I think, well, I moved the big fat loom around while doing the ABS ECU, so maybe I have disturbed the wires -maybe even broken them. Also realise that LPG ECU must need the same info, so there must be a takeoff from the wiring somewhere for that. A plug maybe? Have I left it unplugged?
I search high and low for a missing plug, and can find nothing. However there is a loose plug over by the LPG ECU, the plug is the crank sensor type, and it has three wires -blue, brown and white. White rings a bell -it is shown in a back-of-the-envelope schematic diagram of the LPG system that came with the service history folder. White wire for rpm signal. Looking at my photos of the engine bay before I started the major work on it, it shows this wire disappearing under the scuttle cover just by the brake cylinder. But I can't find anything for it to plug into. I have searched and searched. The three pins in the plug look dirty and unused. So I assumed that this lead and plug was redundant and just stuffed under the scuttle out of the way. See third photo below.
Eventually I decide to connect the new crank sensor directly to the engine ECU, as in the photo below. I adapted a crank sensor plug off a scrap Carlton, and wired it directly to the ECU pins 19 (earth) and 48 & 49 (grey/red, grey/black). The original wiring was left in place, other than disconnecting the original female plug. So any taps into it for the LPG etc are still there. My new wiring simply bypasses everything.
The battery is disconnected all this time of course, so the original fault code should have been cleared. Switch back on, knowing that crank sensor is now firmly connected to the ECU and guess what -still fault code 19! Still no spark! (Go to next paragraph below)
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/Derek_at_GM6_Spares_Co/Omega%2030%20Elite/P1010177.jpg)
My new wiring. Of course if the Omega deigns to start, I won't leave it like this, it will all be tidied up neatly.
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/Derek_at_GM6_Spares_Co/Omega%2030%20Elite/P1010178.jpg)
General view of the engine bay.
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/Derek_at_GM6_Spares_Co/Omega%2030%20Elite/P1010179.jpg)
Here is the mysterious plug branching off from the LPG ECU wiring.
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/Derek_at_GM6_Spares_Co/Omega%2030%20Elite/P1010180.jpg)
Here is the LPG ECU.
So I am now at my wit's end. I just cannot figure out what is wrong. I have also tried it with the LPG ECU disconnected -same result. Whatever I do, the car tells me I have fault 19. Still no spark.
If anyone can shed any light on this, I will be eternally grateful, because at the rate I am going, this car will end up in pieces on eBay. That would be a shame, because I really need this capacious, 3-litre estate to work for me, so that I can visit my family in Essex without having to sell my soul for petrol. There is also a good chance that I will slash my wrists, as the car has cost me a fair amount in parts and time that would otherwise have earned me money restoring Monzas.
In fact if it ever runs again, the cost will have far outweighed the saving in LPG over petrol!
Help! I'm sure that I have done something silly, like leave a plug disconnected, but I just can't see where, and I have searched all over this engine with my halogen head torch in the dark (the best ever way to spot rust under a car when thinking of buying -look at it in the dark witha halogen head torch).
Any ideas are welcome!
-
if your getting code 19 it wont go mate but a new genuine crank sensor from vx will help and the code will be stored for 20ish clean starts so even if you fit a brand new the code will still be there untill the car has been started and run at least 20 times ! :(
-
:o You brave man!
....as markey says, crank sensors have known to be faulty out of the box on more than one occasion ::) Lads on here suggest only genuine GM crank sensors.
Hell, 10% of the AV electronics we unbox at work are faulty...straight out of the box. Go figure!
Good luck mate :y
-
Oh happy day! It is running!
Yes, it really is :) :) :) :y :y
I can't believe it, after all the trauma of the last few weeks. The hellish Saturday trying to extract six screws from the ABS ECU, not knowing where they really were or even what they looked like. The relief when it went back on after being repaired, without as much trouble as I'd expected. The buying of various tools that I hadn't needed for older, less complicated cars. One spanner just to undo one torx bolt! (on the exhaust) etc etc etc etc :'(
The embarrassment of realising that I'd set out to change an exhaust manifold gasket when it was just a rubber pipe, fixable in ten minutes. The further red face :-[ when I turned the key and it wouldn't start. And so on and so on.
I will never know whether the crank sensor was really at fault, because I've fitted a new one now and I can't be bothered to hook up the old one again (but it's still there for the moment, wrapped around the exhaust as per original). But the reason for no spark? Simple really -just bad connections at the plug onto the distributor pack. I thought it might be suspect because it was a bit dirty (cloudy terminals from dampness) but because this car is new to me, I was blinded by its complications, made worse by the extra pitfalls of the LPG installation. I assumed it was something more complex that was wrong when really it was dead simple. How many times have we made that mistake? ::)
So now, the engine is running, it sounds sweet as a nut, and all I have to do is tidy up and make sure that there are no wires etc dangling about. Oh, and figure out where that long vacuum pipe goes!
So all I have to do now is go for a quick drive up the lane, just to assure myself that it really is true, set the radio and CD code, and enjoy blissful Omega motoring. Until the MOT that is, which is the next hurdle.
Many thanks to all those who have helped with various posts, and to the helpful guides in the Maintenance section. Don't rest though, I'm sure I will soon be back with more problems! :y
-
Oh happy day! It is running!
Yes, it really is :) :) :) :y :y
.......
Wahey!! Well done Derek for your perseverance.
-
So now, the engine is running, it sounds sweet as a nut, and all I have to do is tidy up and make sure that there are no wires etc dangling about.
Is this the first time it's been running properly then since you purchased it!?! Credit to your hard work mate! The omega V6 does sound absolutely silky though when it's running right! Everybody these days are buying diesels but it's really nice to get in a petrol motor like the omega and not realise the engine is even ticking over!...until you plant your right foot :D Soooo much better than our clattery diesels!
Oh, and figure out where that long vacuum pipe goes!
Is that one near the HBV (heater bypass valve)??? People are always going on about that...if it's that, i'm not sure, but I don't think it goes anywhere!?! :-?
-
If its auto Derek and at the back of the engine then its just the overpressure tube for the auto box, it goes nowhere, just leave it where it is ;)
Glad you finally got it running, a top job :y
-
Halleluyah!!!!! 8-)
Well done mate, that's sterling work! There is a real nest of nasties under the bonnet and as soon as you have a problem, it all looks a bit dodgy!
Glad it's sorted.......Now you have to tidy it all up again ;)
-
top man well done top job !! :y :y
-
Cable - computer terminal (for programming ECU)
Pipe - auto box breather
-
Thanks for the identification of the mysterious redundant plug, that makes a lot of sense and it had not even occurred to me.
The pipe isn't the auto gearbox breather pipe (about 8mm dia) that is at the back of the engine. It's this one:
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u139/Derek_at_GM6_Spares_Co/Omega%2030%20Elite/P1010181.jpg)
I'm sure I could find a home for it but if anyone knows instantly where it goes that would save me a bit of headscratching! There's a bit of a melt on it which suggests it was close to the exhaust at some point in its travels around the engine bay.
Latest drama: I went for a 10-mile test drive last night and was quite impressed by how lively it is. When I got back though as soon as I switched off, the temperature gauge went right up past 100 degrees. Turns out that none of the fans were working. It has taken me all afternoon to figure out why. I had left two red wires off the positive terminal on the battery. Again, I felt a bit of a twit, but with all that stuff around the battery and fuse/relay box they had slipped down out of sight. So I've just returned from another test drive and this time all is well, with the fan(s) whirring away for a minute or so after I'd switched off, and the temperature normal.
So as far as I can see, everything works; speedo, ABS, TC, cruise, electric seats, sunroof, all four windows, central locking, stereo, CD, even the Carin sat nav guided me faultlessly to my test destination. Gas has stopped working though as I've run out of LPG! I'll fill up tomorrow. If I can get it through the MOT without any significant further expense I will be a happy man.
Thanks again to all those posters who have offered advice and encouragement thus far. :)
-
Oh I meant to say that in the course of all this work I fitted a new heater bypass valve, just to be safe, as a result of what I've learned on this forum. How did we ever cope without the Internet?
-
Update on my woes ('98 3.0 Elite estate auto, LPG, 166,000 miles.....)
I adjusted the throttle cable and I now have kickdown. Great. But the gears are still slipping. During a ten mile drive to fill up with LPG the TC light came on and the EML started flashing quickly at me, as the gearbox went into limp-home mode.
Are these warning lights and gearbox behaviour what you'd expect with a knackered auto gearbox? It does work, after a fashion, and still manages to struggle up hills, but the writing is on the wall!
I've got a good gearbox en route to me and we are all set to change the gearbox as soon as it arrives.