Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: amba on 02 August 2008, 10:12:48
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If the coolant to water mix was above 50% each what would be the effect on temperature,as I am still puzzling with why my temperature is reading 90-92.5 despite replacing the thermostat/both coolant sensors.Just might have more "red stuff" mix than water and curious if problem could really be the mix.
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Temp sounds spot on to me? Don't think the wrong mixture would effect the temperature - the additive is there mainly to stop your water freezing and to stop corrosion of parts.
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Thats what I thought but was unsure if coolant tended to make the engine run cooler.
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Thats what I thought but was unsure if coolant tended to make the engine run cooler.
During a bad water leak i was pouring in coolant so fast
I ran out. So had to use tap water. Eventually it was
running with pure water. Not good. But it made fa
differance to the temp. Maybe check your fan fuses
They come in at various speeds but it does not
sound to bad to me? What was it running at before?
I presume something has changed to concern you?
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Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium. "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..
Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
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Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium. "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..
Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.
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I might be wrong -- but though 90-ish was about right.
Have been recently informed that one fan kicks in around 95 and t'other around 100
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Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium. "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..
Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.
With respect, I'm not sure that you do remember correctly. Have a look at the first table on this page: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html
I imagine Vx coolant will be propylene glycol based these days. The table only goes up to 60% concentration, but the trend is clear.
;)
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Wouldn't take too much notice of the scale on the dash - scales seem to have changed between early and late dashboards, needle should sit somewhere around the middle in normal circumstances.
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Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium. "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..
Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.
With respect, I'm not sure that you do remember correctly. Have a look at the first table on this page: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html
I imagine Vx coolant will be propylene glycol based these days. The table only goes up to 60% concentration, but the trend is clear.
;)
totaly agree :y 100% glycol would be perfect mix as regards feezing and boiling points but it comes down to specific heat capacity i.e. how much heat the medium can carry away where 100% water would be perfect (but your block would rust quickly and there would be reactions between disimilar metals).
so i guess somebody decided a 50/50 mix would be best??? not convinced though so gonna investigate more :D
(opens can of worms and stands back) ;D
:y
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Before I did a coolant change about 3 months(4000 miles) ago my temperature never went above 95..mid point..and reached that fairly quickly after starting car.Since coolant change car has struggled to get above 90 and this was only after a fair time running.Was advised that thermostat could be stuck open so replaced the stat/transfer pipe and to be totally sure did both temperature sensors under tye plenum.Car now seems to get a temperature quicker but does not go beyond 90 even when in stationary traffic like today on M25.Was wondering if I had ended up with too stong a mix now and this was causing temperature to run low.Cannot imagine anything else is playing up as have changed it all(except the gauge)but that must be working as it has registered different temperaure with new and old stat.
Don,t think I have a problem just a question of logic ???
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So long as it gets to a certain temperature reasonably quickly and stays there, i wouldn't worry. Mine sits at an indicated 90 all the time, and gets there pretty quickly. It's abnormal action that should be cause for concern.
As for relying on the gauge? I wouldn't trust the gauge figure too much..my old engine showed a constant 95 and got there just as quick. Only difference is the sensors as i didn't swap them over.
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Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium. "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..
Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.
With respect, I'm not sure that you do remember correctly. Have a look at the first table on this page: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html
I imagine Vx coolant will be propylene glycol based these days. The table only goes up to 60% concentration, but the trend is clear.
;)
totaly agree :y 100% glycol would be perfect mix as regards feezing and boiling points but it comes down to specific heat capacity i.e. how much heat the medium can carry away where 100% water would be perfect (but your block would rust quickly and there would be reactions between disimilar metals).
so i guess somebody decided a 50/50 mix would be best??? not convinced though so gonna investigate more :D
(opens can of worms and stands back) ;D
:y
Sorry guys - this is the bit I didn't remember correctly. 100% glycol freezes about -12 deg. Not 6.
Have a look at what happens after 60%.
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/680.html
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Very interesting article, Bandit 127..thats a two-fold reason for not going overboard on antifreeze strengths, then!
I tend to stick to about 1/3rd strength myself - moreso given the cost of the stuff! Sods law say you disturb the cooling system and a new leak appears...well in my case, anyway!
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Very interesting article, Bandit 127..thats a two-fold reason for not going overboard on antifreeze strengths, then!
I tend to stick to about 1/3rd strength myself - moreso given the cost of the stuff! Sods law say you disturb the cooling system and a new leak appears...well in my case, anyway!
Yes, agree with your earlier comments. The specific heat of 100% ethylene glycol is lower (0.59 at ~25 deg) than water (1.0)
You are right about leaks too. Some years ago we added glycol to an injection moulding tool's cooling system - with some 50 odd connections per tool and we had 6 tools. Yes - it finds leaks.... :( :( :(
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Hi,
I would just like to comment of one of the replies in this thread.
Th Vx red anti freeze is ethylene glycol based and definately not propylene glycol based so do not base any assumptions on the ratio / freezing tables in the link.
I understand the ideal mix for anti freeze is 30% to 50% which will cover just about all the conditions likely to be encountered in Europe.
A stronger mix does not improve anything, and is a waste of money.
In extreme conditions, ie Polar regions, engine coolant is based on glycerin or Poly Alkd Glycol oils, not stronger mixes of anti freeze.
The so called long life anti freeze, Vx red being one of them, are rated for about 5 years, this is nothing to do with their effectiveness as anti freeze, but for how long the anti corrosion inhibitors are effective for.
The "old" anti freeze used to be rated 2 years, but few drivers, or garages ever changed antifreeze, hence the problems of corrosion with oil coolers and the V 6 engines on susceptible cars such as the Omega.
Most of us are happy to change engine oil at regular intervals, just apply the same logic to the engine coolant and save yourselves a lot of uneccessary possible expense.
Roger.
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Yeah, apologies Bandit 127 (and other readers), I made a couple of unwarranted assumptions; sorry to have supplied potentially misleading info. Thanks Big_Roger for the clarification on what's in the Vx coolant.
:-[ ;)
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Water is nearly the most efficient heat carrying medium. "Coolant" in the terms of antifreeze is added to counteract the side effects of water - i.e. supports corrosion (as is holds dissolved gasses far too easily), freezes at 0 degrees and boils at 100 degrees..
Add to much and the "coolant mix" can't actually transfer the heat away from the engine internals efficiently enough. Run a car on 100% antifreeze, and you actually stand a chance of it overheating....
...and freezing. The freezing point INCREASES as the mix gets greater amounts of anti freeze than 50%. The freezing point of 100% is -6 deg C, IIRC.
With respect, I'm not sure that you do remember correctly. Have a look at the first table on this page: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propylene-glycol-d_363.html
I imagine Vx coolant will be propylene glycol based these days. The table only goes up to 60% concentration, but the trend is clear.
;)
totaly agree :y 100% glycol would be perfect mix as regards feezing and boiling points but it comes down to specific heat capacity i.e. how much heat the medium can carry away where 100% water would be perfect (but your block would rust quickly and there would be reactions between disimilar metals).
so i guess somebody decided a 50/50 mix would be best??? not convinced though so gonna investigate more :D
(opens can of worms and stands back) ;D
:y
Sorry guys - this is the bit I didn't remember correctly. 100% glycol freezes about -12 deg. Not 6.
Have a look at what happens after 60%.
http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/680.html
very well found Bandit :y guess that ideal mix is 60% glycol so suggested 50/50 mix allows for a bit of tolerance and gets best properties. :y
(Puts lid back on can of worms and logs off :-[)