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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 17 September 2008, 00:13:52

Title: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 September 2008, 00:13:52
Hi all,

A bit of a strange one here.

I have a leak on my 3.0 V6 Auto. Symptoms are as follows.

1) No noticable oil loss on the dipstick and no noticable ATF loss.

2) Oil is dripping from the bolts on the bottom of the engine, by the bellhousing. Parked overnight after a run, there are about 3 or 4 drops - enough to stain the road and annoy the neighbours ::)

3) The oil is a light browny colour. My ATF and engine oil are pretty much same colour, so hard to tell visually - but Kev W and I both agreed it didn't smell anything like ATF.

4) PAS fluid is leaking VERY slightly but doesn't need topping up between thousands of miles, and is the wrong colour and smell.

So in a nutshell, I think it is engine oil. There is also a little oil in the starter motor area and ABOVE the oil filter.

When I had the oil cooler out I noticed the pipe to cooler unions were leaking a fair amount, and these were changed, in the V.

The pipe to block unions are also dry.

So - guess this leaves two culprits. Cam cover gaskets, or rear crankshaft oil seal, (behind the flex plate) - in that order.

Does anyone agree / disagree?

I need to sort this - else it will be winding up the neighbours moreso than the lack of exhaust silencer  ;D


Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 September 2008, 00:14:40
Just an aside - the plug wells are all dry...
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: albitz on 17 September 2008, 00:18:08
Ive had the same (or similar)leak on my car since I bought it,still dont know where its from. :'(
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 September 2008, 00:20:14
I reckon there is a small external leak from the camcover gaskets - I just want someone to agree, before I

A) Shell out for new genuine ones and
B) Disturb my current ones, if they are actually sealing alright!
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: johnnycboy on 17 September 2008, 00:21:25
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Ive had the same (or similar)leak on my car since I bought it,still dont know where its from. :'(

Me too, but i've only had the car three weeks.

James what about putting a bit of board down underneath the car for now, just to stop the neighbours complaining.

It must be a common fault with red facelift estates :'(
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 September 2008, 08:41:27
Taste it....Would not be surprised given the location if it was coolant picking up some small amount of oil on its way down.
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: DaveyDavey on 17 September 2008, 09:43:21
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Taste it....Would not be surprised given the location if it was coolant picking up some small amount of oil on its way down.
 :o

Crikey Mark I thought your knowledge of Omegas was good but that's going a little far isn't it?  ;)
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Entwood on 17 September 2008, 09:46:47
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Taste it....Would not be surprised given the location if it was coolant picking up some small amount of oil on its way down.


making sure the local stray pooch has been nowhere near the car first ..........  ????

 :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 September 2008, 10:04:35
Quote
Quote
Taste it....Would not be surprised given the location if it was coolant picking up some small amount of oil on its way down.
 :o

Crikey Mark I thought your knowledge of Omegas was good but that's going a little far isn't it?  ;)


Lol, an old trick which really upstes the PC brigade.....works very well when you ahev antifreeze in a system!
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 September 2008, 10:08:57
I have smelt it... I can't smell sweet coolant in it, and I'm not losing coolant either  :-/
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 September 2008, 10:17:59
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I have smelt it... I can't smell sweet coolant in it, and I'm not losing coolant either  :-/

You wont be able to smell it.....taste it!
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 September 2008, 10:25:46
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I have smelt it... I can't smell sweet coolant in it, and I'm not losing coolant either  :-/

You wont be able to smell it.....taste it!

Ok - I'll give it a lick when I get home tonight  ::)
It stains the road quite badly though - would it do that if it was largely coolant?  :-/

It also burns off the cats on a fast run - stinks ..
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 September 2008, 10:32:52
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Quote
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I have smelt it... I can't smell sweet coolant in it, and I'm not losing coolant either  :-/

You wont be able to smell it.....taste it!

Ok - I'll give it a lick when I get home tonight  ::)
It stains the road quite badly though - would it do that if it was largely coolant?  :-/

It also burns off the cats on a fast run - stinks ..

Yes it would as I suspect there may be oil and crudd in the mix.

Need to rule out coolant as this mixed with a small amount of oil spreads a long way!


What I am effectively saying is.....rule out the coolant first as that seriously narrows the possibles down  :y

Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: albitz on 17 September 2008, 10:33:40
If the neighbours see you licking the road,you might end up in a padded cell. :D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 September 2008, 10:52:56
There's still some on my driveway. >:( I'll let you come and lick it though. :P

I remember having a feel in the bottom of the bellhousing as we initially wondered if it was the TC seal. It was dry in there IIRC, making the rear crank seal less likely. I think you would have noticed that when you had the autobox off too.

Another option is to touch it with something hot I.E. a soldering iron. If there's water content it will fizz as the water boils off. If it's all oil it will just smoke.

Kevin


Kevin
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: dbug on 17 September 2008, 18:56:24
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There's still some on my driveway. >:( I'll let you come and lick it though. :P

I remember having a feel in the bottom of the bellhousing as we initially wondered if it was the TC seal. It was dry in there IIRC, making the rear crank seal less likely. I think you would have noticed that when you had the autobox off too.

Another option is to touch it with something hot I.E. a soldering iron. If there's water content it will fizz as the water boils off. If it's all oil it will just smoke.

Kevin


Kevin

Might be better than licking it off the drive :-/
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: maria on 17 September 2008, 19:59:54
doesn't taste sweet, and no coolant loss. The oil, coolant, ATF levels are all spot on and not dropping. PAS has lost about a quarter of the reservior over the last couple of thousand miles, but WHAT is dripping off the bellhousing - unless it's getting swept backwards?  :-/

Just to add there is no tray under this engine.. .never was...
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Andy B on 17 September 2008, 20:00:50
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I have smelt it... I can't smell sweet coolant in it, and I'm not losing coolant either  :-/

You wont be able to smell it.....taste it!

Exactly what I did to the trail of, what turned out to be coolant, from my car when darn sarf.
Stick your finger in the liqued on the floor & then lick your finger.  :y
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: The Cambelt Kid on 17 September 2008, 20:53:30
I have exactly the same kind of leak.  I did the rocker seals a while back so i don't its coming from there.  I have my eyes on either the cam shaft 'o' seals or the crank oil seal.

But after reading this thread, i'll go out and start licking the driveway  :P

Good point about the soldering iron  trick, although if i'm seen licking the drive tonight and then soldering the the drive tomorrow i may well be on my way to Rampton secure unit!

Cheers
M
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Chang on 18 September 2008, 10:26:41
Check the Crankshaft position sensor (next to the oil filter). I replaced mine with one that has a plastic ring which the O ring goes around. I suspect the oil is passing under the ring. It should be able to be sorted with some silicone sealer.
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 September 2008, 11:47:09
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doesn't taste sweet, and no coolant loss. The oil, coolant, ATF levels are all spot on and not dropping. PAS has lost about a quarter of the reservior over the last couple of thousand miles, but WHAT is dripping off the bellhousing - unless it's getting swept backwards?  :-/

Just to add there is no tray under this engine.. .never was...

Oh, James, you didn't get Maria to taste it for you, did you?  ::)

 ;D

Kevin
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: sophos9 on 18 September 2008, 13:15:30
I've got the same thing with what looks like engine oil going down the passenger side of the block (from oil cooler unions etc)

When stopped, you can smell it burning - stinks! Changed cam cover gaskets, no leaks - thought it was head gasket giving in. I can also see oil running down the bell housing and slowly dripping from the two male torx bolts...

Will read this thread with interest!  :y
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 September 2008, 16:05:27
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I've got the same thing with what looks like engine oil going down the passenger side of the block (from oil cooler unions etc)

When stopped, you can smell it burning - stinks! Changed cam cover gaskets, no leaks - thought it was head gasket giving in. I can also see oil running down the bell housing and slowly dripping from the two male torx bolts...

Will read this thread with interest!  :y

Yours sounds like somebody has changed the oil cooler and taken the short cut of bending the pipes which tends to loosen the oil cooler pipe to block unions.
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: sophos9 on 18 September 2008, 16:09:06
Quote

Yours sounds like somebody has changed the oil cooler and taken the short cut of bending the pipes which tends to loosen the oil cooler pipe to block unions.

I changed the oil cooler and yep, bent the pipes. I've since checked over the unions and tightened (crowsfoot bit). The oil is coming from above the unions which is why I was think HG?!?
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 18 September 2008, 16:11:15
Thing is, it's the water jacket which is on the edge - so if the HG failed, it would leak into the coolant, not the outside?  :-/
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: sophos9 on 18 September 2008, 16:13:34
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Thing is, it's the water jacket which is on the edge - so if the HG failed, it would leak into the coolant, not the outside?  :-/

I really hope you are right! If the HG is FUBAR then I'll have to break the car  :'(
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Martin_1962 on 18 September 2008, 16:30:14
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Quote
Thing is, it's the water jacket which is on the edge - so if the HG failed, it would leak into the coolant, not the outside?  :-/

I really hope you are right! If the HG is FUBAR then I'll have to break the car  :'(


Change them - can't be that bad
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 September 2008, 16:37:16
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Quote
Thing is, it's the water jacket which is on the edge - so if the HG failed, it would leak into the coolant, not the outside?  :-/

I really hope you are right! If the HG is FUBAR then I'll have to break the car  :'(


I assume the seal around the oil cap and the base of the filler neck are ok?
Consider this.

There is one very small high pressure oil way through the head gasket (close to the cam belt end) which is way inboard of the edge of the head.

There are many cooling points in the headgasket (at pressure of course) around all the combustion chambers and a further one at the front and rear (close to the stat and coolant bridge).

There are then two oil return passages (front and rear) which are less than atmospheric pressure (as the engien is kept at some level of vac by the breather setup.

When you consider the above.....how likely is it to be head gasket?
Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: sophos9 on 18 September 2008, 16:47:37
First thing - sorry if I'm thread hijacking  :-[

Whatever is happening is only resulting in a minimal loss of oil, I've not had to top up in about 6k miles.

When the car is up to temperature when you stop, burning oil smell enters the cabin.

I've check, replaced then checked cam covers again - no leaks.

Oil is visible coming from above the oil cooler unions (on the block) and coming down over the crank sensor. Oil also visible on the bell housing

From the engine bay, there is no visible oil leak above the exhaust manifold


Need to check
I will need to check the neck to cam cover seal (in case a small bit is leaking)
Also degrease whats on the block and see what returns (old oil from failed cam covers - have done 400miles since replacing)

Mark, in response to your question - I guess HG is not probable?

Title: Re: Oil Leak - but where?
Post by: Banjax on 18 September 2008, 16:59:00
when i had the car serviced he said to me "just keep an eye on the ******* - these things are notorious for dripping oil from them"

if only i could remember what he said (i was just glad it only cost £100 to service and wasn't paying attention - stupid dumb tinker that i am!)
next time i see him (soon) - i'll get him to show me!! :y

but sounds like that - tiny oil leak - i'll get back to you