Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: ngrainqey on 29 October 2008, 20:57:38
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is it possible to have the calipers and discs off the front of the omega and put them on the back?
just wondering as it'll help the old barge stop a bit quicker (it's 2.5 so it'll be 296's on the front and 286 on the rear but twin instead of single) :P
thanks
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is it possible to have the calipers and discs off the front of the omega and put them on the back?
just wondering as it'll help the old barge stop a bit quicker (it's 2.5 so it'll be 296's on the front and 286 on the rear but twin instead of single) :P
thanks
facelift rears are vented.
If yours doesn't stop quickly, there is a problem.
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is it possible to have the calipers and discs off the front of the omega and put them on the back?
just wondering as it'll help the old barge stop a bit quicker (it's 2.5 so it'll be 296's on the front and 286 on the rear but twin instead of single) :P
thanks
facelift rears are vented.
If yours doesn't stop quickly, there is a problem.
hmmm mines prefacelift though :(
just fancy the bragging rights :P it stops very quick but with it being auto just thought it'd keep it a bit cooler and be interesting to fit :P
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hmmm mines prefacelift though :(
just fancy the bragging rights :P it stops very quick but with it being auto just thought it'd keep it a bit cooler and be interesting to fit :P
I think you stand a chance of upsetting the front / rear bias and will tend to lock the rears up too easily if you put front discs etc on the back.
AIMHO :y :y
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is it possible to have the calipers and discs off the front of the omega and put them on the back?
just wondering as it'll help the old barge stop a bit quicker (it's 2.5 so it'll be 296's on the front and 286 on the rear but twin instead of single) :P
thanks
facelift rears are vented.
If yours doesn't stop quickly, there is a problem.
Don't think mine are :-?
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personally i didnt think any of the omegas had vented rears, only saabs
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is it possible to have the calipers and discs off the front of the omega and put them on the back?
just wondering as it'll help the old barge stop a bit quicker (it's 2.5 so it'll be 296's on the front and 286 on the rear but twin instead of single) :P
thanks
facelift rears are vented.
If yours doesn't stop quickly, there is a problem.
Don't think mine are :-?
I think that just applies to those with a full compliment of cylinders! ::) :y :y
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is it possible to have the calipers and discs off the front of the omega and put them on the back?
just wondering as it'll help the old barge stop a bit quicker (it's 2.5 so it'll be 296's on the front and 286 on the rear but twin instead of single) :P
thanks
facelift rears are vented.
If yours doesn't stop quickly, there is a problem.
Don't think mine are :-?
I think that just applies to those with a full compliment of cylinders! ::) :y :y
just checked and it only applies to the 2.6 and 3.2
if it's on the 2.5 that im on about swapping to the vented rears then would it matter? think the 3.2 and 2.6 only have the same 296's that the 2.5 and 3.0 have which would make it the same brakes on front and rear between facelift and prefacelift....
might experiment for the improved braking on my mig and for the factual benefit of oofers! lol
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the braking power of the front and rears are not the same..rears utilizing a small portion unless the car is loaded..So will not be very effective on brake distance.. Better let the car checked by a proffesional from the group may be some other problem causes the picture.. :-/
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is it possible to have the calipers and discs off the front of the omega and put them on the back?
just wondering as it'll help the old barge stop a bit quicker (it's 2.5 so it'll be 296's on the front and 286 on the rear but twin instead of single) :P
thanks
facelift rears are vented.
If yours doesn't stop quickly, there is a problem.
Don't think mine are :-?
I think that just applies to those with a full compliment of cylinders! ::) :y :y
:-X ;D
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well what about if the fronts are being uprated to 308's for example, surely it wouldnt really matter aslong as the abs can cope with it
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the braking power of the front and rears are not the same..rears utilizing a small portion unless the car is loaded..So will not be very effective on brake distance.. Better let the car checked by a proffesional from the group may be some other problem causes the picture.. :-/
Very good point. The brake balance may well be wrong if you fit the front setup to the rear, and that's not a good thing.
I'm sure a facelift V6 rear caliper and disk would give you a vented rear without issues but personally I wouldn't bother unless I had problems with the rears overheating. It's a fair bit more unsprung weight for a start.
Kevin
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might help get it sideways ;) lol could be INTERESTING to say the least.
whats the offset on the rear facelift discs and calipers?
might be after some if they're the same.
it's just the fact i can rip the twin vented's off my 2.0 for free!
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I had an interesting experience..if you want more effective brakes play with the compression ratio of the engine itself..on my previous car I modified the engine increased the comp ratio with some headwork..and brakes become superb.. :)
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No handbrake if you do that
FL V6 rear set if desperate
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No handbrake if you do that
FL V6 rear set if desperate
ok matey, i'll see how i get on and then pm if i get stuck
thanks
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I had an interesting experience..if you want more effective brakes play with the compression ratio of the engine itself..on my previous car I modified the engine increased the comp ratio with some headwork..and brakes become superb.. :)
does increasing the comp ratio increase the vacuum so increasing the response from the brake servo?
i only had the idea because you can get the single disc upgrades, surely if the upgraded singles are so good then wouldnt they have a similar effect to the standard spec twin vented ones?
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I had an interesting experience..if you want more effective brakes play with the compression ratio of the engine itself..on my previous car I modified the engine increased the comp ratio with some headwork..and brakes become superb.. :)
does increasing the comp ratio increase the vacuum so increasing the response from the brake servo?
i only had the idea because you can get the single disc upgrades, surely if the upgraded singles are so good then wouldnt they have a similar effect to the standard spec twin vented ones?
initially the mechanics and I didnt have any idea about what will happen to the brakes..But that was what happened..
I think brake servo is number #1 factor for brake distance.. and even a newer brake servo will be more effective IMHO.. :-/
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I had an interesting experience..if you want more effective brakes play with the compression ratio of the engine itself..on my previous car I modified the engine increased the comp ratio with some headwork..and brakes become superb.. :)
does increasing the comp ratio increase the vacuum so increasing the response from the brake servo?
i only had the idea because you can get the single disc upgrades, surely if the upgraded singles are so good then wouldnt they have a similar effect to the standard spec twin vented ones?
initially the mechanics and I didnt have any idea about what will happen to the brakes..But that was what happened..
I think brake servo is number #1 factor for brake distance.. and even a newer brake servo will be more effective IMHO.. :-/
spose so,
i'v got jeremy clarkson head on again though... it's like...why not put rockets on a reliant robin and make it go into space?
....why not put the twin vented discs off the front onto the back of another omega :y ? lol
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these "why not" s caused real troubles in my previous car (because I play with many things) and after I was forced to sell it ;D
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these "why not" s caused real troubles in my previous car (because I play with many things) and after I was forced to sell it ;D
lmao!
i'v already done the "why not swap the 2.0 for a 2.5"
at which point i'v got stuck because i cant get round the immobiliser so need to get the 2.5 ('94/95) ecu and everything for it to run- and yes i did get a bit angry lol!
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these "why not" s caused real troubles in my previous car (because I play with many things) and after I was forced to sell it ;D
lmao!
i'v already done the "why not swap the 2.0 for a 2.5"
at which point i'v got stuck because i cant get round the immobiliser so need to get the 2.5 ('94/95) ecu and everything for it to run- and yes i did get a bit angry lol!
Look in the positive side..You really learn many things and get bloody
experience that most people cant imagine :y
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these "why not" s caused real troubles in my previous car (because I play with many things) and after I was forced to sell it ;D
lmao!
i'v already done the "why not swap the 2.0 for a 2.5"
at which point i'v got stuck because i cant get round the immobiliser so need to get the 2.5 ('94/95) ecu and everything for it to run- and yes i did get a bit angry lol!
Look in the positive side..You really learn many things and get bloody
experience that most people cant imagine :y
have to agree, there is that lol
anyway im off to bed so talk to you lot tomorrow night *waves*
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Your existing brakes, if in good condition and working correctly, are more than powerful enough to lock your wheels (or activate the ABS in this car's case). In other words the standard brakes are already powerful enough to stop the car as quickly as the grip available from the tyres will allow. This is the limiting factor in your stopping distance. Bigger brakes will not make you stop any quicker - it's a myth! Bigger brakes will simply mean you can try and test this claim a few more times before you melt something:). If you want to stop quicker you need more grip - get some thick sticky tyres!
Liam
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You don't want the same braking power on the rear as you have on the front, especially under heavy breaking. The weight is transfered to the front, the rear becomes lighter and as a result has less traction. This results in less braking force required to stop the rear wheels turning and they will lock up surprisingly easily.
I had an example of this in a Carlton I had several years back.
An oil hose had split and was lightly spraying out an oily mist that ended up on the front discs. As I approached a set of traffic light on an A road, the lights changed and as I was driving into low sun I didn't notice the amber, just the red. It was soon enough to stop safely but as I braked only slightly harder than I would have normally, the car slowed and then reacted as if I had yanked the handbreak up. The rear came around and I ended up at a 90 degree angle to the direction I was originaly heading. :-[
A certain part of my anatomy went from the size of a sixpence to the size of a manhole cover and back again several times. I had no idea what had caused this so I pulled over to the side and started going over the car. That's when I noticed the light coating of oil all over the engine bay and the inside walls of the front tyres and realised what had happened.
Correct brake balance is critical on a road car. Yes, rally cars etc can switch the front/rear bias as required but that's totally different situation to your local high street. Omega brakes that are operating correctly are as good as you could ask for.
Take a look at most sports bikes. Twin discs on the front and one on the rear.
Also read the blurb on the back of a box of sintered brake pads. It states that sintered pads should never be used on the rear if they are not fitted to the front as this will result in brake imbalance
It's ok to use sintered all round or just on the front and standard on the rear.
Sorry, I think I'm going on a bit !! ::)
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ok guys, i have fittred 3.2 vented rear discs and calipers to a 24v diamond carlton estate and to a 24 senny track slag ;D can report that the both of them have phenominal brakes now and the brake balance hasnt changed much at all, all that happens under ferocious braking on the track(both cars) was that the abs cut in on the rears a couple of times but the stopping distances were brilliantly shortened compared to the standard set up wouldnt do it on a four pot with the smaller front brakes but as an easy brake upgrade on the larger cars its worth doing!!
in my opinion!!!
diamond estate is used a lot for towing and it certainly helps there as well, in fact if i decide to keep my TD nad not replace it then i will probably do it to that as well,
Omegatoy
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ok guys, i have fittred 3.2 vented rear discs and calipers to a 24v diamond carlton estate and to a 24 senny track slag ;D can report that the both of them have phenominal brakes now and the brake balance hasnt changed much at all, all that happens under ferocious braking on the track(both cars) was that the abs cut in on the rears a couple of times but the stopping distances were brilliantly shortened compared to the standard set up wouldnt do it on a four pot with the smaller front brakes but as an easy brake upgrade on the larger cars its worth doing!!
in my opinion!!!
diamond estate is used a lot for towing and it certainly helps there as well, in fact if i decide to keep my TD nad not replace it then i will probably do it to that as well,
Omegatoy
This mod ^^^ has been approached sensibly - ie swap existing rear discs & callipers for improved rear discs & callipers.
Putting front disks & callipers onto the rear as ngrainqey proposes is gross stupidity as brake balance will be crap - to the point of being dangerous. My advice - if you dont understand the fundementals of brake setups dont muck with them - & I give this advice with practical experience of playing with brake balances on the race track!
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I'm pretty sure the fronts won't fit the rear anyway . The offset on the rears is a lot more than the fronts because of the internal handbrake shoes.
Also the calipers are twice the size on the front so the mounting bolts are further apart.
You'd have to do a bit of serious modification to get them to fit and get a working handbrake.
I've MOT'd a lot of Peugeot / Citroens where the rear brake compensator has siezed , transferring greater effort to the rear brakes, makes them interesting to drive , especially in the wet.
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all that happens under ferocious braking on the track(both cars) was that the abs cut in on the rears a couple of times
The fact that the ABS had activated on the rear confirms there is a brake imbalance, all be it a very slight one.
ABS is designed to cut in when a wheel has or is about to lock up. Without ABS you'd have soon binned that idea...or up-rated the front accordingly. If they're good now, they would probably be phenomenal if you did that. :o
Stickier tyres on the rear may sort out the loss of traction activating the ABS, but you would then run into other problems like a much higher risk of loosing the front end sooner than the rear when cornering on the limit.
As you probably know, loosing the rear is not too much of an issue, (in fact with the motorsport of "Drifting" it's the name of the game.) and probably happens several times in every track session or race. If the front goes, then it usually ends up in the kitty litter.
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I upgraded my last mini facelift Elite's rear brakes using 3.2 facelift vented disks and calipers.
(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h64/pickledpepper/DSCF0096.jpg)
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A vented disk won't give you any more stopping power, it will just dissipate more heat allowing you to abuse the brakes a little more before they overheat.
The vented rears are designed to work with the same front end braking setup so the pad & piston area will still be correct, and probably the same as the non-vented setup so I would be very surprised if retro- fitting them upset the brake balance.
Kevin
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
Not sure its worth the effort - its the fronts that need beefing up, unless you are track racing.
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
Not sure its worth the effort - its the fronts that need beefing up, unless you are track racing.
The fronts do seem to complain first if driving is spirited. As it was on my way to work one day this week. ::) Decided my new disks had had enough bedding-in and it was time for a work-out. Got a few dirty looks when I rolled into a village after a bit of a session on the backroads to find the bin men doing their round and blocking the road. .. and I'm sitting there with both front wheels smoking like Dot Cotton. ::)
Kevin
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
Not sure its worth the effort - its the fronts that need beefing up, unless you are track racing.
The fronts do seem to complain first if driving is spirited. As it was on my way to work one day this week. ::) Decided my new disks had had enough bedding-in and it was time for a work-out. Got a few dirty looks when I rolled into a village after a bit of a session on the backroads to find the bin men doing their round and blocking the road. .. and I'm sitting there with both front wheels smoking like Dot Cotton. ::)
Kevin
hahahaa! i quite fancy some 320's :P
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
Not sure its worth the effort - its the fronts that need beefing up, unless you are track racing.
The fronts do seem to complain first if driving is spirited. As it was on my way to work one day this week. ::) Decided my new disks had had enough bedding-in and it was time for a work-out. Got a few dirty looks when I rolled into a village after a bit of a session on the backroads to find the bin men doing their round and blocking the road. .. and I'm sitting there with both front wheels smoking like Dot Cotton. ::)
Kevin
I've got brake problems on the tractor - when I went to Belgium last week I was running late, and lost the brakes going through Milton Keynes. First time I've ever had serious brake issues on Omega >:(
Anyway, I've rebled, and filed the front pads a bit, but can't get the bite back - do I need to replace the pads?
Not entirely sure I haven't warped them >:(, which is a shame as they were only renewed in Feb >:(
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
Not sure its worth the effort - its the fronts that need beefing up, unless you are track racing.
The fronts do seem to complain first if driving is spirited. As it was on my way to work one day this week. ::) Decided my new disks had had enough bedding-in and it was time for a work-out. Got a few dirty looks when I rolled into a village after a bit of a session on the backroads to find the bin men doing their round and blocking the road. .. and I'm sitting there with both front wheels smoking like Dot Cotton. ::)
Kevin
I've got brake problems on the tractor - when I went to Belgium last week I was running late, and lost the brakes going through Milton Keynes. First time I've ever had serious brake issues on Omega >:(
Anyway, I've rebled, and filed the front pads a bit, but can't get the bite back - do I need to replace the pads?
Not entirely sure I haven't warped them >:(, which is a shame as they were only renewed in Feb >:(
what sort of symptoms are you getting matey, spondgey would you say or you just seem to plonk your foot on the stop pedal :P and doesnt have the same response as before?
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
Not sure its worth the effort - its the fronts that need beefing up, unless you are track racing.
The fronts do seem to complain first if driving is spirited. As it was on my way to work one day this week. ::) Decided my new disks had had enough bedding-in and it was time for a work-out. Got a few dirty looks when I rolled into a village after a bit of a session on the backroads to find the bin men doing their round and blocking the road. .. and I'm sitting there with both front wheels smoking like Dot Cotton. ::)
Kevin
I've got brake problems on the tractor - when I went to Belgium last week I was running late, and lost the brakes going through Milton Keynes. First time I've ever had serious brake issues on Omega >:(
Anyway, I've rebled, and filed the front pads a bit, but can't get the bite back - do I need to replace the pads?
Not entirely sure I haven't warped them >:(, which is a shame as they were only renewed in Feb >:(
what sort of symptoms are you getting matey, spondgey would you say or you just seem to plonk your foot on the stop pedal :P and doesnt have the same response as before?
Sponginess went after I bled them (pedal went to floor on Thurs). Issue now is lack of bite on the pads when stamped on, bit like first mile or 2 after brand new pads
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might have glazed them, can be a right barstuard to get rid off in my experience.
tbh unless somebody knows how to get rid of it then new pads matey
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Have a read here ...
http://www.powerbrake.co.za/downloads/tech_02_bedin.pdf
especially the note right at the end, last sentence ????
might be worth a try ??
HTH
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all that happens under ferocious braking on the track(both cars) was that the abs cut in on the rears a couple of times
The fact that the ABS had activated on the rear confirms there is a brake imbalance, all be it a very slight one.
ABS is designed to cut in when a wheel has or is about to lock up. Without ABS you'd have soon binned that idea...or up-rated the front accordingly. If they're good now, they would probably be phenomenal if you did that. :o
Stickier tyres on the rear may sort out the loss of traction activating the ABS, but you would then run into other problems like a much higher risk of loosing the front end sooner than the rear when cornering on the limit.
As you probably know, loosing the rear is not too much of an issue, (in fact with the motorsport of "Drifting" it's the name of the game.) and probably happens several times in every track session or race. If the front goes, then it usually ends up in the kitty litter.
nearly right!!! the rear abs only cut in cos the rear shocks are blown!!!! :o there is no actual brake imbalance with this set up bud, its what is used on the 3.2 and i agree its really only on the track you are going to use them to full potential, but it is a very good safe modification and as someone else has said apart form the better swept area giving more brake power the only other thing that is improved is the actual heat dissaption form the vented rears
its a good safe modification to do in my opinion :y
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thanks for replies, i'm only interested in doing it because i wonder at times if i'm going to cook the brakes (its an auto) an at times i do give it alot of abuse going flying towards corners and maximising the right foot on the old brake pedal (well it must be so big for a reason-to give it a good stomp :P )
i'm on about putting the 2.0 front discs on (286's which i think the rears are anyway on the 2.6) ... if there's an issue with handbrake operating- or not in this case then i'd have to buy some 2.6 discs
and anyway i understand the brake bias principles ;)
hence why i wasnt going to put a bigger diametre on the back than on the front ;)
Not sure its worth the effort - its the fronts that need beefing up, unless you are track racing.
The fronts do seem to complain first if driving is spirited. As it was on my way to work one day this week. ::) Decided my new disks had had enough bedding-in and it was time for a work-out. Got a few dirty looks when I rolled into a village after a bit of a session on the backroads to find the bin men doing their round and blocking the road. .. and I'm sitting there with both front wheels smoking like Dot Cotton. ::)
Kevin
I've got brake problems on the tractor - when I went to Belgium last week I was running late, and lost the brakes going through Milton Keynes. First time I've ever had serious brake issues on Omega >:(
Anyway, I've rebled, and filed the front pads a bit, but can't get the bite back - do I need to replace the pads?
Not entirely sure I haven't warped them >:(, which is a shame as they were only renewed in Feb >:(
simple answer is you burnt the resin in the pads they will never be right now!!! will always feel bad rectification? put new pads in!!!! :y
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You probably know this already but on a lot of vauxhalls , it knackers the abs unit if you don't crack the bleed nipples when you push the pistons back.
Something to do with fluid being forced back through the unit I think.
Anyway the end result is the pedal creeps and you can't do an emergency stop , although under normal braking it's not too bad.