Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: TECHNOPUG on 31 October 2008, 10:04:17
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Need to get the car MoT's this week (well, probably about 3 weeks ago.....) so plan to give it an inspection and fix anything that needs doing at the weekend. Exhaust will need attention as it clatters under low revs and idle , just under the passenger seat. Did some untentional off-roading the other month so I'm hoping that it's just a bracket that has gone, as it's not blowing and is fine once the revs are up and the car isn't vibrating as much. Certain that it's just hitting the bottom of the car - only once I get underneath it will I be able to tell.
The only other thing that concerns me is the handbrake. Ever since I've had the car, it will only bite when the handbrake is pulled all the way up to the very top notch. Anything less and the car will role. Once it's fully engaged, it's fine. Leave it on inclines no problem. Is this normal? Could it be a sign that the brake shoes are worn and therefore it will fail an MoT? Normally I'd just adjust the cable but it appears that you can't do that on the Omega and it looks a real hassle to take all the rear brakes apart just to adjust the travel/biting point of the handbrake.
Thoughts anyone?
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It should only fail the MOT if it is actually on the last notch of the lever before it works.
If this is the case you need to adjust the handbrake shoes .
There's a hole in the rear brake drum/disc , through which you can flick the adjuster round with a screwdriver.
If I remember correctly , on the left wheel you need the hole at about 1 o'clock to see the adjuster .
It's a bit fiddly if you haven't done it before because once you get your screwdriver in the hole you can't see what you're doing.
The adjuster is a little wheel with teeth on , there are probably some pics on here somewhere , .You need to lever the wheel round with the screwdriver , but I can never remember which way to go to adjust it up !!
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im pretty sure there is a hole through the brake disc assy whereas you can adjust the shoes up, ive never done them on a miggy as yet but as the setup is the same [i think] as the senators etc & they had the inspection/adjustment hole on the front of the disc, get the hole [if there is one] to the top & shine a torch through, the adjuster should be there if my memory serves me. :-/
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sorry pete!, you type faster than me obviously ;D
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You must be the only person who types slower than me !!
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Thanks for the quick replies - that's excellent news. So is the access hole on the front or rear of the brake? Any tips for getting both sides lined up the same?
Sounds like it's just the exhaust now that might cause me problems. Although, if it's not blowing and the emissions are fine, will a little clattering at idle fail....hmmmmm.....Speaking of emissions, oil in the plugs due to blown cam-cover gaskets likely to cause MoT emission problems? There is no smoke when, cold, hot or on start up. Used to driving pre-90 cars, where it's pretty much impossible to fail an emissions test, short of the tyres being on fire ;)
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on the front of the disc, the same side as your wheel bolt holes!, as for the exhaust, check that the rubber hangers are present & correct :y oil in the plug wells dont go through the exhaust so no problems there,,,,,pete have i beat you this time? ;D
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as for the adjuster it should only allow it to go one way anyway, & only do it a couple of clicks at a time, to back them back off is a pain :y perhaps leaving the handbrake up a couple of notches will stop you over adjusting it,,,,,,good luck :y
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IIRC the adjusters roll just fine to both directions...
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on the front of the disc, the same side as your wheel bolt holes!, as for the exhaust, check that the rubber hangers are present & correct :y oil in the plug wells dont go through the exhaust so no problems there,,,,,pete have i beat you this time? ;D
Yeah, really think that it's just come off a hangar at the front. Haven't had a chance to get under the car and look yet. Definitely feels that it's coming from the back of the gearbox, on the passenger side. I guess that's the first low point of the system from the downpipe, so the most likely to go when driving through deep mud? Is there a mount there? If so and it's one of those rubber hangar mounts that has perished (hopefully just unhooked) will a universal one fit of does it have to be a VX one? And if so, will it be model specific? Lot's of questions...but you guys seem to have all the answers, so no harm in asking :)
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You beat me this time tim , I was walking the dog !!
The handbrake adjuster does move both ways, it's usually a bit of trial and error to find which way is on and off.
As for the exhaust it can't fail for rattling or banging as long as it's in one piece and all the mountings are intact.(and as long as it's not banging on something important like brake pipe/ cable etc.)
Mountings don't have to be original as long as they're secure.
BTW where are you , If you're anywhere near Nottingham I can MOT it for you if you want.
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The worrying thing about the exhaust is that the rattling could be a cat breaking up. Could equally be the heatshields on the cats though. :-/
As said, if it's not insecure, it's unlikely to fail for rattling.
Kevin
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i beg your pardon about the adjusters, i must be thinking of the ratchet type adjusters on astras etc ;), as for the exhaust its down to the tester i guess, i have seen a failure on exhaust insecure but hopefully youve just bumped it off & itll hang back up o,k :y go to petes as he`s just put his guide dog away & his white stick is broken ;) ;) ;D perhaps he ought to do MOT discount for OOF members ;D ;D ;D
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I definitely first noticed it after negoitating a very muddy field after a festival. So first thoughts were that it come off a bracket. It's hitting the bottom of the car on idle (AFAIK) and low revs (when the engine is vibrating the most) and goes once the revs are up. Sometimes worse than at other times. Sounds like it is coming from under passenger seat. Sometimes when I lift of the throttle I can hear more of a rattling sound and what appears to be something dragging on the road......I guess that all will be revealed tomorrow! New exahaust from the stealers will make the car uneconomical to repair I fear....
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i beg your pardon about the adjusters, i must be thinking of the ratchet type adjusters on astras etc ;), as for the exhaust its down to the tester i guess, i have seen a failure on exhaust insecure but hopefully youve just bumped it off & itll hang back up o,k :y go to petes as he`s just put his guide dog away & his white stick is broken ;) ;) ;D perhaps he ought to do MOT discount for OOF members ;D ;D ;D
Unfortunately it's not my garage any more , I sold it but I'm still doing MOT's there at the moment.
Don't mind doing them for any OOF members though, we charge £40 but we don't fail them on anything stupid, we give you the benefit of the doubt and advise if it's borderline stuff.
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sounds just like the good old days when my late father done MOT`s when common sense prevailed, not like some of the garages out to make a "kwik" buck so to speak ;)
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I use BT Fleet for MOT's ::) ::)
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the one i use are rather good, a mug of coffee while im sitting in the car shaking the steering, handbrake pulling etc, & they dont rev the nuts out of it for the emissions test & a free retest within 10 days i think it is [could be 14 days], not that ive needed a retest as yet ;)
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im pretty sure there is a hole through the brake disc assy whereas you can adjust the shoes up, ive never done them on a miggy as yet but as the setup is the same [i think] as the senators etc & they had the inspection/adjustment hole on the front of the disc, get the hole [if there is one] to the top & shine a torch through, the adjuster should be there if my memory serves me. :-/
Yep, set-up is the same as the Carlton/Senator models.
On the nearside, the access hole needs to be positioned at roughly '5 mins to the hour' and the adjusting wheel is turned upwards to tighten.
Offside hole position is roughly '5 past the hour' and turn adjuster wheel DOWNWARDS to tighten.
Shoe return spring fits snugly into the adjuster-wheel grooves to prevent the adjustment backing-off (or on ... !).
Haynes manual has good pics of the rear brake set-up.
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im pretty sure there is a hole through the brake disc assy whereas you can adjust the shoes up, ive never done them on a miggy as yet but as the setup is the same [i think] as the senators etc & they had the inspection/adjustment hole on the front of the disc, get the hole [if there is one] to the top & shine a torch through, the adjuster should be there if my memory serves me. :-/
Yep, set-up is the same as the Carlton/Senator models.
On the nearside, the access hole needs to be positioned at roughly '5 mins to the hour' and the adjusting wheel is turned upwards to tighten.
Offside hole position is roughly '5 past the hour' and turn adjuster wheel DOWNWARDS to tighten.
Shoe return spring fits snugly into the adjuster-wheel grooves to prevent the adjustment backing-off (or on ... !).
Haynes manual has good pics of the rear brake set-up.
So......in that case, if I move the handbrake to the position that I want it to bite (say, 6 clicks for example), it's then just a case of tightening each wheel as far as they will go?
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So......in that case, if I move the handbrake to the position that I want it to bite (say, 6 clicks for example), it's then just a case of tightening each wheel as far as they will go?
The wheel adjusters should not be used to take up slack in the cable, as they would if adjusted as you describe. With the cable totally slack, the wheel adjusters should be set so that the brake is just binding, and then slackened off until it's free.
The central adjuster under the handbrake lever is then used to take out any slack in the cable and provide the desired "biting point".
Kevin
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Look on page 2 of 'Maintenance Guides' section.
MarksDTM posted an excellent jobbie on 29 Feb.
Follow this, and you shouldn't go wrong ... !
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Cheers - I'll have another read through it
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You can adjust the handbrake cable by getting underneath and removing the heatshield and have long arms to get to the adjusting nuts. The cable could also be stretched which won't make any difference to the adjustment. Yes you can adjust the hanbrake shoes but if they are worn then you have wasted your time in doing this, it might be easier to take the wheels off and discs and just check the condition of the shoes.
Paul :y
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So can the handbrake be adjusted at both the caliper AND handbrake end??
Also, why does the car have seperate internal brake shoes for the handbrake, rather than just a cable pulling the calipers?
[smiley=undecided.gif]
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So can the handbrake be adjusted at both the caliper AND handbrake end??
Also, why does the car have seperate internal brake shoes for the handbrake, rather than just a cable pulling the calipers?
[smiley=undecided.gif]
Handbrakes that work on Disc brake calipers aren't great. The pad area is small so you need a mechanism that will exert a lot of force and maintain it while the disc cools and contracts.
Drum shoes have a large surface area so only need a small clamping force to provide reasonable braking, easily provided by a cable and a simple mechanism. As the drum cools down it contracts and increases the braking force. This means your car doesn't roll away as the brakes cool.
The Omega setup gives the best of both worlds - disc brake for sevice braking and drum brake for parking brake - at the expense of some extra weight.
Kevin
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Clever...... :)
Used to light-weight cars, so probably didn't have so much of an issue with weight exert pressure on the parkign brake.
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You certainly do NOT setup Omega handbrakes like that!
You must follow as per the maintenance guide and not take such a short cut !
sadly to many garages etc do take the short cut and the result is something that works very short term an then fails quickly after!
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You certainly do NOT setup Omega handbrakes like that!
You must follow as per the maintenance guide and not take such a short cut !
sadly to many garages etc do take the short cut and the result is something that works very short term an then fails quickly after!
I feel like a scolded child [smiley=cry.gif]
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i was always told shoes first til they just rub then adjust cable to get the desired amount of notches on handbrake.
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On the question of handbrakes, when I pull mine on when travelling very slowly (10 mph) I get an almighty "crack" sound on the nearside rear wheel. A local Vauxhall specialist said it was a characteristic of the car. What say you?
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id say why do you pull the handbrake when moving ;D
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On the question of handbrakes, when I pull mine on when travelling very slowly (10 mph) I get an almighty "crack" sound on the nearside rear wheel. A local Vauxhall specialist said it was a characteristic of the car. What say you?
Apply the handbrake lightly for a100 meters or so a few times.....
What happens is that due to the handbrake shoes never stopping a rolling car, the drum faces get a light covering of corrosion adn this results in snatching.
By doing the above a few times (it actualy says to do this in the handbook once a month or so), it stops this happening and keeps everything working nicely
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i was always told shoes first til they just rub then adjust cable to get the desired amount of notches on handbrake.
Exactly...but you CANT set the shoes unless the cable is mega slack in the first place :y
hence, you MUST slaken the cable first!
This is true of all shoe setups and its not doing this on most cars that results in the auto adjusters not working!
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On the question of handbrakes, when I pull mine on when travelling very slowly (10 mph) I get an almighty "crack" sound on the nearside rear wheel. A local Vauxhall specialist said it was a characteristic of the car. What say you?
Apply the handbrake lightly for a100 meters or so a few times.....
What happens is that due to the handbrake shoes never stopping a rolling car, the drum faces get a light covering of corrosion adn this results in snatching.
By doing the above a few times (it actualy says to do this in the handbook once a month or so), it stops this happening and keeps everything working nicely
Many thanks for that Mark. Top Info. BTW I have been trying to contact you for sometime for a Tech 2 checkover.
John
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On the question of handbrakes, when I pull mine on when travelling very slowly (10 mph) I get an almighty "crack" sound on the nearside rear wheel. A local Vauxhall specialist said it was a characteristic of the car. What say you?
Apply the handbrake lightly for a100 meters or so a few times.....
What happens is that due to the handbrake shoes never stopping a rolling car, the drum faces get a light covering of corrosion adn this results in snatching.
By doing the above a few times (it actualy says to do this in the handbook once a month or so), it stops this happening and keeps everything working nicely
Many thanks for that Mark. Top Info. BTW I have been trying to contact you for sometime for a Tech 2 checkover.
John
Yes, trying to firm up a day for you....
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Recently adjusted the handbrakes on the Monza and Omega and both are now fully set on the 4th notch. I had to fiddle around with the cable adjustment on the Monza because I'd slackened it to remove the trailing arms, but on the Omega I just put the screwdriver through the hole and turned the adjuster. Took some doing as the nearside needed the wheel turning upwards to tighten the brake up and offside needed downward adjustment for the same effect!
I did mine in the dark with an anglepoise lamp on an extension lead directed through the hole at the adjuster, out of necessity not design, but it did allow me to see what the adjusters were doing: if the adjuster is being turned to tighten up the brake, you expose the thread on the adjuster as you turn because the adjuster 'expands' to push the shoes against the inside of the discs. If you're backing the brakes off, the thread will disappear.
As others have said, all this is done with handbrake disengaged. I tested mine by pulling the brake on occasionally and bolting a wheel on to give me enough leverage to grab and heave and see if I could move it!
I didn't look at the condition of my shoes, would have known to if the adjustment had made little or no difference I guess.
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On the question of handbrakes, when I pull mine on when travelling very slowly (10 mph) I get an almighty "crack" sound on the nearside rear wheel. A local Vauxhall specialist said it was a characteristic of the car. What say you?
Apply the handbrake lightly for a100 meters or so a few times.....
What happens is that due to the handbrake shoes never stopping a rolling car, the drum faces get a light covering of corrosion adn this results in snatching.
By doing the above a few times (it actualy says to do this in the handbook once a month or so), it stops this happening and keeps everything working nicely
Many thanks for that Mark. Top Info. BTW I have been trying to contact you for sometime for a Tech 2 checkover.
John
Yes, trying to firm up a day for you....
PM sent Mark.
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Recently adjusted the handbrakes on the Monza and Omega and both are now fully set on the 4th notch. I had to fiddle around with the cable adjustment on the Monza because I'd slackened it to remove the trailing arms, but on the Omega I just put the screwdriver through the hole and turned the adjuster. Took some doing as the nearside needed the wheel turning upwards to tighten the brake up and offside needed downward adjustment for the same effect!
I did mine in the dark with an anglepoise lamp on an extension lead directed through the hole at the adjuster, out of necessity not design, but it did allow me to see what the adjusters were doing: if the adjuster is being turned to tighten up the brake, you expose the thread on the adjuster as you turn because the adjuster 'expands' to push the shoes against the inside of the discs. If you're backing the brakes off, the thread will disappear.
As others have said, all this is done with handbrake disengaged. I tested mine by pulling the brake on occasionally and bolting a wheel on to give me enough leverage to grab and heave and see if I could move it!
I didn't look at the condition of my shoes, would have known to if the adjustment had made little or no difference I guess.
Again, not the way to do it and on this setup, 4 clicks is a little low.
The key thing is that with the handbrake released thee should be some obvious slack in the cable.
The reason being is that if there is not then the handbrake will keep lightly applying as the trailing arms move during normal driving....the result is shoe wear adn a resulting poor handbrake.
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Recently adjusted the handbrakes on the Monza and Omega and both are now fully set on the 4th notch. I had to fiddle around with the cable adjustment on the Monza because I'd slackened it to remove the trailing arms, but on the Omega I just put the screwdriver through the hole and turned the adjuster. Took some doing as the nearside needed the wheel turning upwards to tighten the brake up and offside needed downward adjustment for the same effect!
I did mine in the dark with an anglepoise lamp on an extension lead directed through the hole at the adjuster, out of necessity not design, but it did allow me to see what the adjusters were doing: if the adjuster is being turned to tighten up the brake, you expose the thread on the adjuster as you turn because the adjuster 'expands' to push the shoes against the inside of the discs. If you're backing the brakes off, the thread will disappear.
As others have said, all this is done with handbrake disengaged. I tested mine by pulling the brake on occasionally and bolting a wheel on to give me enough leverage to grab and heave and see if I could move it!
I didn't look at the condition of my shoes, would have known to if the adjustment had made little or no difference I guess.
Again, not the way to do it and on this setup, 4 clicks is a little low.
The key thing is that with the handbrake released thee should be some obvious slack in the cable.
The reason being is that if there is not then the handbrake will keep lightly applying as the trailing arms move during normal driving....the result is shoe wear adn a resulting poor handbrake.
Surely you'd need the cable pretty tight for this to happen wouldn't you. 4 clicks must be about 10mm of movement in the cable . Would it move as much as this with suspension travel?
On another point it's a good idea to stop your hand brake grabbing using Mark's method , at the least just before you take your car for MOT.
Otherwise if you get an enthusiastic tester yanking your handbrake on in the brake rollers it can rip the linings off the brake shoes.
I know cos I did it on a Carlton when I first started testing about 10 years ago !!
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You would be amazed how much it affects it.....try bending the cable sheath a little next time and seeing how much slack is taken up!
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Come to think of it , on a lot of cars the handbrake binds on when we jack them up for MOT.
Suppose it must have been interesting when cars had all cable brakes, with the same thing happening on all the wheels at once.
Pedal travel must have been a bit variable !!
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getting interesting this!, one thing i will say though is unlike other /most cars the shoes in the miggy only have 1 function whereas drum rears do both functions as in pedal & h/brake, but yes i like that point of driving with it slightly on it does make sense, never done it with my monzas but i guess i was lucky in those days ;D
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Oh these handbrakes. It's such a faff it's no wonder they hardly ever work properly. People just can't be bothered!
Same with fuel filters. "Where's that then?" This is after having owned the offending car for ten years (it's just conked out due to fuel starvation). ::)
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Oh these handbrakes. It's such a faff it's no wonder they hardly ever work properly. People just can't be bothered!
Same with fuel filters. "Where's that then?" This is after having owned the offending car for ten years (it's just conked out due to fuel starvation). ::)
As I always say to auto drivers....use it or loose it.
Brakes need servicing (sadly they rarely get that these days).....
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OK - first job of the day - inspect the clattering exhaust. Been under the car with the engine running and I'm 99% certain that it's the nearside front CAT. That's where the noise is coming from and there is no other obvious play. Sooo.......what enormous amout of damage am I looking at to get this replaced? Furthermore, will it pass an MoT without it? Would be a LOT cheaper to just remove both the front CATS and fit a straight through pipe on either side.
Thoughts/opinions/suggestions please?
Gonna look at the handbrake now, providing the rain holds off. Can someone please confirmed where the cabel adjustment is? There seems to be contradictory statements that there is scope for adjustment at the caliper end but also at the lever end too.....
On a positive note, discovered last night that the MoT doesn't actually expire until the 13th Nov :)
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OK - first job of the day - inspect the clattering exhaust. Been under the car with the engine running and I'm 99% certain that it's the nearside front CAT. That's where the noise is coming from and there is no other obvious play. Sooo.......what enormous amout of damage am I looking at to get this replaced? Furthermore, will it pass an MoT without it? Would be a LOT cheaper to just remove both the front CATS and fit a straight through pipe on either side.
Thoughts/opinions/suggestions please?
Gonna look at the handbrake now, providing the rain holds off. Can someone please confirmed where the cabel adjustment is? There seems to be contradictory statements that there is scope for adjustment at the caliper end but also at the lever end too.....
On a positive note, discovered last night that the MoT doesn't actually expire until the 13th Nov :)
As always, the maintenance guide is your friend!
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152564750
And no, you wont pass an MOT with no Cat!
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OK - first job of the day - inspect the clattering exhaust. Been under the car with the engine running and I'm 99% certain that it's the nearside front CAT. That's where the noise is coming from and there is no other obvious play. Sooo.......what enormous amout of damage am I looking at to get this replaced? Furthermore, will it pass an MoT without it? Would be a LOT cheaper to just remove both the front CATS and fit a straight through pipe on either side.
Thoughts/opinions/suggestions please?
Gonna look at the handbrake now, providing the rain holds off. Can someone please confirmed where the cabel adjustment is? There seems to be contradictory statements that there is scope for adjustment at the caliper end but also at the lever end too.....
On a positive note, discovered last night that the MoT doesn't actually expire until the 13th Nov :)
As always, the maintenance guide is your friend!
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152564750
And no, you wont pass an MOT with no Cat!
Not even with the rear two in place? Damn these modern cars and their infernal emissions testing!!! [smiley=angry.gif]
So is there a thread running or sticky about where best to source CATS or should I start a new thread? I never seem to get many returns when I use the search function. Found this via a quick Google - http://www.cats-direct-shop.co.uk/exhaust-systems.php?recordID=3420 I need part 380052 - seems like a good price - I would imagine that the Stealers would want 4 times that!