Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: DerekT on 17 December 2008, 20:41:46
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Hi Folks,
Recently my omega 2.5cdx had to have new rocker cover gaskets fitted. Oil got into the cylinders during the process and it now drives like a pig. Definitly not firing correctly.
Took it back to the garage and they advised that I drive it for at least 100 miles to burn off the oil and if that doesn't help they will change the plugs.
Dont know much about cars but this sounds like I might be putting my CAT at risk of failure.
Can anyone advise if this is OK to do and what the chances are of it getting better?
Many thanks,
Derek
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Im suprised they didnt soak up the oil before removing the plugs, even if oil got into cylinders I would have thought it would have been gone by now, try removing the plugs that you can get to, give them a clean in petrol and a wire brush, making sure the gaps are equal on them all, ad refit. if it still runs like a bag of spuds, then they may have disturbed something else while doing their substandard work.
does the engine managment light come on at all?
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no engine management light just running poorly. To be honest I've only driven it from the garage to the house (about 2 miles).
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oh, that explains it, try and find a nice private road and give it a good blast, dont be shy as the heat generated by the "thrashing" will burn off the oil.
afaik its only unburnt fuel getting pushed thru the cats that damages them, such a small ammount of oil as this shouldnt hurt them.
cheers ;)
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Being honest I thought oil too would damage the Cats...
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many thanks, I'll give it a good run tomorrow and let you know.
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Being honest I thought oil too would damage the Cats...
according to manuals ive read in the past, its only prolonged use of the car whilst burning oil that causes damage. the plugwells wont have contained much to worry about. as the chap says the oil is in the sylinders now, so the only way to get rid is to burn it off.
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Not sure I entirely agree mate.
But never mind :y
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Being honest I thought oil too would damage the Cats...
Possibly not as much as unburnt fuel - but I definately agree, any amount isn't good :y
When we spilled a load of oil into my 2.0, some time ago - it was about 1.5 miles until the exhaust ran clean again... so I'm not sure where they get 100 miles from :o
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If the garage
were daft enough to let significant amounts of oil run into the cylinders, perhaps they also killed one or more HT leads (which may well have been weakened by the oil around them previously)?
Burning lots of oil may not do lambda sensors much good, but I'd imagine that would mainly be the case if it were ongoing rather than a one-off.
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Give it a run should burn the oil out in a mile or so and if the engine is still not running properly the so called fitters have`nt put something back properly or worse damaged something.
Best of luck mate.
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quite common this, for some reason garages dont seem to wonder why the cam cover gaskits fail. Age is an issue as they go hard, but the main reason, from personal experience and from what i have read on here is... Blocked crank case breathers!
These get full of mayo similar to what you may find normally on the filler cap with short journeys. This sets and blocks the breathers and the first place the pressure can escape is cam covers, then oil escapes and fills the plug wells, after a short period the ht leads rubbers cook in the oil and split, usually during the process of removing the oil. This leads to a missfire and an engine that wants to get out and walk.
First you need to clean your breathers or they will most likely blow again, make sure black gaskit goo is used sound the half moons only and not all the way round or the seal will be to good and the crank seal will go instead if the breathers block again, then once your sure the oil wells are dry change the plugs, vx are cheapest, and check the leads and rubber boots for splits or damage. You will probably need new leads. Motor factors for them or breakers on here possibly, vx want ton plus a side last i looked.
Try not to run the engine until any spark issues have been sorted or you may over load the dis pac, breakers on here for those if you need one.
The route cause of all of this seems to be vx lengthening service intervals to impress fleet managers and grab a few more sales. Change the oil regular once the work is done and your should have on more grief. Not sure what the oof recommended interval is but mine was done 3k ago when i got it and i will change it this weekend. I may then stick to 5k intervals(someone please advise if thats wrong)
This hole issue was the start of a load of agro with my old car, plugs, leads, breathers needed doing as said plus the alternater went as it was covered in oil,then the exhaust manifold started blowing but not sure thats related but it was directly under the worst leaking cover.
Hth
Ps. Imho you probably wont have any lasting issues with the oil in the cylinder, and its too late now anyway. I would be more worried about the breathers, cam seals and rough running.
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Oil in the cylinders will not make it run rough......it will smoke heavily for the first few minutes (normlay seconds) but, thats about it!
If its not running right then I would say:
1) They have connected the HT leads up wrong on the 2-4-6 bank
2) The leads are goosed
Oil will not knacker the cats, it gets burnt in the cylinders, its unburnt fuel that causes issues!!
Trouble is, when its running rough there will be unburnt fuel in the cats!
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Cam covers can leak even if the breathers are clean - they go hard and just start to leak.
This happened with mine.
To this one - plug leads or wrong plug lead order
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i got a bit of oil in the cylinders when i last changed my spark plugs, it smoked on start up for about 15 seconds, couple of revs and it ran clear.
It never ran rough, just smoked a bit.
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Cam covers can leak even if the breathers are clean - they go hard and just start to leak.
This happened with mine.
To this one - plug leads or wrong plug lead order
But surely that occurs only when :
a) inferoir gaskets are used, thus leading too:
b) overtightening of the cam cover to compensate?
People and garage gorillas seem to forget that it's only a little plastic cover, and it's the rubber o- rings and gasket that actually do all the work, but they still wind it up for all it's worth causing it to warp, which over time causes it to fatigue.
As for the problem here, I remember when I chaged mine, I too had oil in the plug wells, and tried to get most of it out, but some invariably fell into the bores.
As Mark DTM says, a mile or two of running sorted it. What I did find though which is confirmed all that has been said already, was that the plug caps themselves had rotted through.
Invariably this not only causes a weak spark, but has also been known (check forums old posts) to knacker the DIS pack.
If you haven't already done so, then clean the breathers, but also check and if necessary replace your leads as a first port of call.
Don't look for cats and things just yet, - that's expensive troubleshoot the easy stuff first :y
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i have found loose cam cover bolts on both my migs,signified by a weep of oil around the bolt, i put this down to the oring seals retracting with age?
When i did my covers the seals where rock hard in comparison to the new ones, only ever use genuine vx as said. 99 car with about 110k on the clock at the time. My current car is 52 plate 77k and has a slight weep on the pass front half moons, they are original and the breathers are clear.
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Hi folks,
I have ran it for 80 miles now and its not any better. However I decided to check the only plug lead I had easy access to (front left) and when I pulled it, it was covered in oil.
Also when I left it disconnected and re-started the car it sounded exactly the same, so it seems that plug is not firing, would you agree?
thanks again,
Derek
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Yes its a possible, where are you?
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I'm in cumbernauld
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Hi derek,
Do you have access to a spark plug socket, extension and a ratchet?
If you need guiding thru removing the plug and lead for inspection I could do it over the phone with you as Im in scotland so should be cheaper to call. ;)
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Many thanks for the offer, I dont have any tools like that I'm afraid but I could get them. First off I'm going to try the garage one more time and if that fails maybe I could give you a call? Possibly Saturday morning
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yep no worries, Im off saturday and being daylight i can look at one of my cars while im guiding you through it.
In the meantime it might be an idea to try and get another HT lead for that plug. pm one of the guys breaking omega's on here
pm me if you need a hand and Ill send you my no.
cheers :y
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Cam covers can leak even if the breathers are clean - they go hard and just start to leak.
This happened with mine.
To this one - plug leads or wrong plug lead order
But surely that occurs only when :
a) inferoir gaskets are used, thus leading too:
b) overtightening of the cam cover to compensate?
People and garage gorillas seem to forget that it's only a little plastic cover, and it's the rubber o- rings and gasket that actually do all the work, but they still wind it up for all it's worth causing it to warp, which over time causes it to fatigue.
As for the problem here, I remember when I chaged mine, I too had oil in the plug wells, and tried to get most of it out, but some invariably fell into the bores.
As Mark DTM says, a mile or two of running sorted it. What I did find though which is confirmed all that has been said already, was that the plug caps themselves had rotted through.
Invariably this not only causes a weak spark, but has also been known (check forums old posts) to knacker the DIS pack.
If you haven't already done so, then clean the breathers, but also check and if necessary replace your leads as a first port of call.
Don't look for cats and things just yet, - that's expensive troubleshoot the easy stuff first :y
Same as Chris Gixer
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Hi folks,
Just to give you an update, the garage confirms that the fornt left plug is not firing.
They have ordered a set of new plug leads that will be fitted on Monday. Not sure why they had to ordered a full set if only one plug isn't firing. Is it not possible just to order one lead?
From reading the feedback, and thanks very much to everyone who responded, I think it is the lead it must have been cooking in hot oil for weeks which cant be good.
Anyway they say that if that does not work it is probably the coil pack, but again I am confused because I thought my car didn't have a coil pack I thought coil packs were introduced in later models. Mines is a W reg 2.5 V6 Does anybody know if it has a coil pack?
Also as prevention of future rocker cover gasket failure a lot of you say that the breathers need to be kept clean. Do you know if there are any guides on how to clean the breathers I can look at?
Thanks again.
All the best,
Derek
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yes, very good guide in maintenance section. Worth doing while they are in there and i would change the plugs as well, no matter how old they are, they may be ok at the moment, may also be breaked, but could well play up in the near future if they have been cooking with the leads. You probably will see carbon scoreing on the insulator where the spark has been escapeing, replace.
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no point in fitting new leads till the cam cover gaskets have been replaced with genuine vauxhall ones and breathers cleaned ! yes yours will ahve a coilpac its called a dispac too !! :y
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They say thay have replaced the gaskets for a second thime and this time with genuine vauxhall parts but there is still oil in the plug wells.
They must no be cleaning the breathers.
I'll print off the maintenance guide and give it to them. I tink the problem is not being vauxhall experts they are probabaly just doing the bear minimum.
Failing this is there anyway to find a mechanic in my area who has done the breather cleaning before. I suppose even an amateur enthusiast would be better than what I am currently getting.
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They say thay have replaced the gaskets for a second thime and this time with genuine vauxhall parts but there is still oil in the plug wells.
They must no be cleaning the breathers.
I'll print off the maintenance guide and give it to them. I tink the problem is not being vauxhall experts they are probabaly just doing the bear minimum.
Failing this is there anyway to find a mechanic in my area who has done the breather cleaning before. I suppose even an amateur enthusiast would be better than what I am currently getting.
You could do it your self mate? But failing that where the f is cumbermauled or what ever is called? Maybe some one near you...
Trouble with independents is they dont know whats coming through the door. So unless your lucky and find one who knows omegas, then you will have to tell them exactly what needs doing. They cant be expected to know the ins and outs of every single car ever made. Although they usually will tell you they know what they are doing to get the work.
Maybe a google for a vx independent specialist in your area. Or pay a visit to one of the tech 2 owners on here, the boy, marksdtm or Kevin wood if they have time. What they dont know aint worth knowing. But yes most members on here will know the drill no doubt.
I am sure there is a guide on the gaskits as well, but they need to be genuine vx and use loctite 598 black goo around the half moon cam cut outs. Do not use all the way round or you risk blowing crank pulley seal if the breathers block again, which they wont if you change the oil regular.
Hth
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Its in the central belt of Scotland half way between Glasgow and Stirling :)
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Its in the central belt of Scotland half way between Glasgow and Stirling :)
Where Barrs took some of the production of Irn Bru back too! ;) ;)
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Thats the place. ::)