Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: ngrainqey on 10 January 2009, 23:27:43

Title: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: ngrainqey on 10 January 2009, 23:27:43
hiya,
i'm getting piston slap as my passenger exhaust manifold gasket is fubar'd

im just wondering whats the quickest way to change it?
markey mark said to take the ecu out and hang it over the top of the engine but what do i NEED to take off to do it (obv manifold heat shield) and the coolant transfer pipe torx bolt (aka bastard bolt lol)
oh yeah, are the passenger and driver side gaskets interchangeable?

thanks
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: HGV mechanic on 10 January 2009, 23:46:41
my motto has always been "if its in your way, remove it ", makes life alot easier, and i think, no , there not interchangable ;)

Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: ngrainqey on 10 January 2009, 23:49:48
Quote
my motto has always been "if its in your way, remove it ", makes life alot easier, and i think, no , there not interchangable ;)


lol only thing is i'v not exactly got sausage fingers and dont mind getting some chaffed knuckles
(im thinking, move wiring loom and lay it over the plenum, take the exhaust heat shield off, move the coolant transfer pipe to thermostat and then go from there)

i'v got an exhaust manifold gasket but not sure which side it's for-i'll have to try and check it

thanks
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: Jimbob on 10 January 2009, 23:52:43
Quote
my motto has always been "if its in your way, remove it ", makes life alot easier, and i think, no , there not interchangable ;)


They are identical, just replaced both.
You just reverse them depending on the side.
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: HGV mechanic on 10 January 2009, 23:56:44
Quote
Quote
my motto has always been "if its in your way, remove it ", makes life alot easier, and i think, no , there not interchangable ;)


They are identical, just replaced both.
You just reverse them depending on the side.

 
 :-[  well bugger me they are too
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: Jimbob on 10 January 2009, 23:59:13
Quote
Quote
Quote
my motto has always been "if its in your way, remove it ", makes life alot easier, and i think, no , there not interchangable ;)


They are identical, just replaced both.
You just reverse them depending on the side.

 
 :-[  well bugger me they are too


Ill pass, cheers
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: ngrainqey on 10 January 2009, 23:59:35
Quote
Quote
my motto has always been "if its in your way, remove it ", makes life alot easier, and i think, no , there not interchangable ;)


They are identical, just replaced both.
You just reverse them depending on the side.

thanks jimbob :y
might get it done tomorrow then depending what im doing in the morning
...then i just have to sort out the knackered cat lol!
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: HGV mechanic on 11 January 2009, 00:00:10
the offer was there  ;D ;D
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: ngrainqey on 11 January 2009, 00:01:12
lmao!
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: Elite Pete on 11 January 2009, 07:42:01
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
my motto has always been "if its in your way, remove it ", makes life alot easier, and i think, no , there not interchangable ;)


They are identical, just replaced both.
You just reverse them depending on the side.

 
 :-[  well bugger me they are too


Ill pass, cheers
That'll be a first ;D
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: Elite Pete on 11 January 2009, 07:51:44
Quote
hiya,
i'm getting piston slap as my passenger exhaust manifold gasket is fubar'd
im just wondering whats the quickest way to change it?
markey mark said to take the ecu out and hang it over the top of the engine but what do i NEED to take off to do it (obv manifold heat shield) and the coolant transfer pipe torx bolt (aka bastard bolt lol)
oh yeah, are the passenger and driver side gaskets interchangeable?

thanks

 :-?
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: TheBoy on 11 January 2009, 10:23:11
Quote
Quote
hiya,
i'm getting piston slap as my passenger exhaust manifold gasket is fubar'd
im just wondering whats the quickest way to change it?
markey mark said to take the ecu out and hang it over the top of the engine but what do i NEED to take off to do it (obv manifold heat shield) and the coolant transfer pipe torx bolt (aka bastard bolt lol)
oh yeah, are the passenger and driver side gaskets interchangeable?

thanks

 :-?
that was my reaction.....
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: chrisdb on 11 January 2009, 11:17:33
I'd be very interested how you get on. I have to do mine very soon but I was following the manual's route of taking off the head. It'd be a lot cheaper if I did not need to.
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: JasonH on 11 January 2009, 12:36:15
My notes part 1:

PASSENGER SIDE EXHAUST MANIFOLD GASKET  REPLACEMENT

Took 2 full days – mainly due to fiddly problems.
On the facelift 2.5 V6 it’s not essential to remove the engine or even to move the engine.
The job goes like this (sorry no pictures just needed to get it done).

Parts

Coolant transfer pipe O-rings x 2
Dipstick tube O-rings x 2 (cost about £3 each retail !)
Coolant
Exhaust downpipe nuts M10 x 2            90570845   approx £1.50 each (have helicoil insert)
Manifold gasket                              24416110            £5.91
Manifold nuts x 7                        11082413            £0.26 each  (get a couple spare)
Manifold studs x 7                        90106924            £0.45 each  (get a couple spare)
Front pipe gasket                        90499289            £4.55 each
Secondary Air Injection gaskets x 2         90467427            £0.40 each
Few M8 nuts (I think, check them on the new studs) to use to lock together to get studs in and studs out

The job

Drain the coolant using red tap at bottom corner of radiator – note that this may not be required. Depends on how lucky you feel just rotating the coolant transfer pipe.

Jack up the passenger side front wheel.
Fit axle stand.
Remove passenger side front wheel (easier to get in and out from under car and allows access to one exhaust stud through hole in wheel arch).

Remove passenger side cat:
Undo the 16mm nuts connecting exhaust manifold to down pipe (long extension required). I’d recommend tapping the ratchet round with a hammer to reduce the chance of shearing the studs on the exhaust manifold.
Separate the cat from the mid box – these bolts will be solid. 13mm head. Grind off protruding thread to help undoing. Lots of penetrating oil. Tap ratchet with hammer to try to prevent shearing. If they do shear it’s not the end of the world. When the cat’s off drill out the bolt and when you put everything back together use a nut and bolt rather than bolting into the tapped part on the cat.
Undo the 13mm support bolt.
Catch the very heavy downpipe / cat.

Penetrating oil on all exhaust heat shield bolts.
4 bolts on top heat shield, one hidden one just about accessible from underneath.
2 bolts for lower heat shield.
Removed using E10 torx socket and 8mm ratchet ring spanner. Quite fiddly.
You might find one or two shear off, although none of mine did.
You can just about drag the top heatshield out of the way down past where the downpipe was fitted.
You do need it out of the way.

Ignition on, disconnect battery –ve
Remove +ve feed from battery (to give a little bit more room)
Lift cover for ECU box slide it up and out, partially lift out loom to engine (to get some extra room to work)
Undo and remove bracket holding PAS reservoir.
Unclip and remove bonnet switch.
Unclip wiring near PAS reservoir from stud on suspension turret.
Undo and remove bracket near dipstick holding earth wire and aircon pipe. You’ll need to unclip the earth wire.

Undo the Secondary Air Injection pipe at the hose end and at the two points where it goes into the exhaust manifold.
I couldn’t get the SAI pipe out so I left it in place and moved it around when required.

Undo the b*stard bolt holding the engine lifting bracket, coolant transfer pipe and dipstick in place. Make a note of where the spacer goes.
Rotate the lifting bracket and remove it. It has a L at the bottom which is why is doesn’t just slide out.
You need to rotate the coolant transfer pipe to allow the dipstick to be released. If you think the O-rings will keep their seal then there is no need to remove the coolant transfer pipe but really you should remove it and replace the O-rings once you’ve disturbed it.

Now you need to get the dipstick out. This is hard and took me a lot of time. At this point it “just pulls out”. I broke a nylon 500kg rope trying to “pull it out”. You need to pull in the right direction – roughly next to where the PAS reservoir sits is about right. Rotate the dipstick to loosen it, wiggle and pull. Pull, pull, pull. Mine came out mm by mm. I tried rope round the bracket on to a long bar that rested on a block of wood on the suspension turret. Got huge amount of leverage, which may have loosened it.
You have to get the dipstick out to gain access to one stud. I tried to work around it but you’ll never get the stud back in.

Undo the manifold studs. You’ll need a selection of ratchet extensions to get on to the studs. One can be accessed through a hole in the wheel arch.
Post 98 models should have the non-seize manifold nuts fitted
Make sure you get the most sturdy ratchet you can on and get the socket on square. The nuts are copper and easily round off. With a solid tug they’ll all undo. Generally the stud comes out of the block – which is very helpful.
I used ½” drive where possible to undo.
3/8” drive where I had to.
But for refitting a ¼” drive got you a long way.

If one shears the best option may be to live without it. On mine the rear most stud had sheared all on its own. Luckily there was a fair bit of stud left and it even had thread on it. To get it out I had to get a nut welded on. The heat from the welding probably helped to – but it was still very tight.

On the facelift V6 (at least) the studs seem to generally come out whole. The others did and so did they when I did the driver’s side.

Clean the head face well and check the manifold for cracks (just in case) then clean manifold face and check it’s flat.

Then put it all back together.
You may have to judge the torque in some cases (can’t get the torque wrench in). I found nice and tight with a ¼” drive was about right.

You might drop the odd stud (hence the spares) sometimes they disappear.

Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: JasonH on 11 January 2009, 12:36:40
Part 2:

When you put the new studs in they generally do up into the block before the new nut starts working its way down the thread. The new nuts are supplied slightly swashed. If it goes wrong, wind the nut back and put a second (spare) M8 nut on the exposed thread and wind the top nut in so the nuts lock together. A quick undo on the outer nut usually recovers it – although one is still there!

You might want to use a few washers on the heat shield to hold it in place where the bolt holes have enlarged.

Dipstick tube with new O-rings and plenty of grease pushes in a lot easier than getting it out. Clean hands and a firm wiggle and press down does the trick. Get the bracket back in the right place then put the coolant transfer pipe back to right position.
Wiggle the lifting bracket roughly into place but leave it a 90 degrees so you can see what you’re doing. Now ensure the holes are all lined up with a small screw driver.

The b*start bolt holding the engine lifting bracket, dipstick and coolant transfer pipe is a bugger to get in. My tip would be to get something large and blunt like a ½” extension bar, use that to bounce down on the PAS pipe as you slot the nut past the pipe. A 10mm ratchet ring spanner then slotted in allows you to turn the (torx) head whilst you try to line it up with a finger.

Then basically put everything back carefully (ran out of time to finish the guide…)
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: ngrainqey on 11 January 2009, 12:55:59
Quote
Quote
Quote
hiya,
i'm getting piston slap as my passenger exhaust manifold gasket is fubar'd
im just wondering whats the quickest way to change it?
markey mark said to take the ecu out and hang it over the top of the engine but what do i NEED to take off to do it (obv manifold heat shield) and the coolant transfer pipe torx bolt (aka bastard bolt lol)
oh yeah, are the passenger and driver side gaskets interchangeable?

thanks

 :-?
that was my reaction.....

you know... that ticking noise from when the manifold is blowing
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: tmx on 11 January 2009, 15:06:05
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
hiya,
i'm getting piston slap as my passenger exhaust manifold gasket is fubar'd
im just wondering whats the quickest way to change it?
markey mark said to take the ecu out and hang it over the top of the engine but what do i NEED to take off to do it (obv manifold heat shield) and the coolant transfer pipe torx bolt (aka bastard bolt lol)
oh yeah, are the passenger and driver side gaskets interchangeable?

thanks

 :-?
that was my reaction.....

you know... that ticking noise from when the manifold is blowing


just noticed myn has started ticking to!  is the 2.5 way similar to the 3.0?
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: dbug on 11 January 2009, 15:41:45
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
hiya,
i'm getting piston slap as my passenger exhaust manifold gasket is fubar'd
im just wondering whats the quickest way to change it?
markey mark said to take the ecu out and hang it over the top of the engine but what do i NEED to take off to do it (obv manifold heat shield) and the coolant transfer pipe torx bolt (aka bastard bolt lol)
oh yeah, are the passenger and driver side gaskets interchangeable?

thanks

 :-?
that was my reaction.....

you know... that ticking noise from when the manifold is blowing

Thats not piston slap ;D ;D
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: Elite Pete on 11 January 2009, 16:41:12
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
hiya,
i'm getting piston slap as my passenger exhaust manifold gasket is fubar'd
im just wondering whats the quickest way to change it?
markey mark said to take the ecu out and hang it over the top of the engine but what do i NEED to take off to do it (obv manifold heat shield) and the coolant transfer pipe torx bolt (aka bastard bolt lol)
oh yeah, are the passenger and driver side gaskets interchangeable?

thanks

 :-?
that was my reaction.....

you know... that ticking noise from when the manifold is blowing

Thats not piston slap ;D ;D
Its a blowing manifold gasket ::)
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: FT on 13 January 2009, 10:56:40
Hi all, just noted the above comment  by ElitePete...my 2.0 16v'96 engine 'ticks' every time I start it from cold.  It only disappears after it starts to warm up.  It's very annoying, but once it goes away the car sounds great.  My question is...is it causing any damage to the engine or exhaust components, i.e. should it be rectified as soon as!?  I did start a thread with 'clanking' in the title, but reading this thread and seeing 'tick' made me think twice and agree that my engine is ticking and not clanking.  I have changed the oil and checked it's level after driving a few hundred miles.  Thanks very much.

FT.
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: dbug on 13 January 2009, 22:36:41
Quote
Hi all, just noted the above comment  by ElitePete...my 2.0 16v'96 engine 'ticks' every time I start it from cold.  It only disappears after it starts to warm up.  It's very annoying, but once it goes away the car sounds great.  My question is...is it causing any damage to the engine or exhaust components, i.e. should it be rectified as soon as!?  I did start a thread with 'clanking' in the title, but reading this thread and seeing 'tick' made me think twice and agree that my engine is ticking and not clanking.  I have changed the oil and checked it's level after driving a few hundred miles.  Thanks very much.

FT.

Could be exhaust manifold gasket leakage - if it is and it quietens down quickly after starting up unlikely to cause any damage only annoyance.
Could also be noisy hydraulic lifter - a couple of oil and filter changes cured mine.
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: Elite Pete on 14 January 2009, 08:42:42
As above really could be a lifter or exhaust manifold leaking. I believe the manifolds on the 4 cylinders can crack.
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: FT on 14 January 2009, 10:17:11
thanks for the replies.  the hydraulic lifter, what is it?  should I be overly concerned or put up with it?  What kind of damage can a blowing manifold gasket do if not fixed?  FT.
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: Abiton on 14 January 2009, 13:18:25
Hydraulic lifters convert the motion of your cam into motion parallel to the valve stem, and the oil-filledness of them (hydraulic) ensures contact at all times (once the oil is up to pressure).  So your valves should 'follow' the profile of the cam perfectly.

A leaky manifold gasket is an MOT fail; and could, if it gets 'major' have an adverse effect on fuelling. Air will be drawn in at certain times, cocking up the lambda sensor's understanding of what's going on in the combustion chambers.  You'll also get ever more annoyed by the worsening din your engine makes.

Get the heatshield off, and look for broken studs.  ;)
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: FT on 15 January 2009, 12:51:53
...just a thought...could this be why even after cleaning the throttle assembly and breathers, and replacing the ISCV, the engine still revs at 1000RPM?  it's never wanted to come down from that!  I'll have a check for the leaking manifold stuff, but any ideas as to how much it would be to get it fixed at a local trustworthy garage?
FT.
Title: Re: evil...passenger manifold gasket!
Post by: ngrainqey on 16 January 2009, 16:39:37
Quote
...just a thought...could this be why even after cleaning the throttle assembly and breathers, and replacing the ISCV, the engine still revs at 1000RPM?  it's never wanted to come down from that!  I'll have a check for the leaking manifold stuff, but any ideas as to how much it would be to get it fixed at a local trustworthy garage?
FT.

no idea but you could just get your hands mucky (its not very hard to do on the 2.0)