Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: oredona on 17 November 2008, 19:54:52
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One moning, i was trying to connect my car radio and then i realised the Lights were getting weak, so i decided to start the car and charge my battery but my car wouldn't star, i tried all i could, but no way.
So i took the car to a garage and i told him to code read the fault and let me know what the problem is, he agreed but 5 hours later, i called to know what or if he has found any fault, to my suprise, he said the car was ready and my bill was £891.
I was shocked and asked him how come, he started listing things he bought and did in my car, i refused to pay because i did not ask him to carry out any work without my permission but he wouldn't release my car untill i pay this money.
I demand for an invoice, he said he is not obliged to give me an invoice. So iwent home and i was told to pay him the money under protest and take the case to court."Small claims"
This was the invoice he sent me after i have paid him all the money.
INVOICE
1. TO CHARGE BATTERY
2. TO CODE READ VEHICLE : NO FAULTS FOUND
3. TO TEST WIRING TO ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM WITH BREAK OUT BOX: all Systerms ok
4. TO TEST FOR KVs AND FUEL PRESURE: NO FUEL PRESURE
5. TO TEST FOR POWER TO FUEL PUMP: NO POWER
6. TO TEST WIRING BACK TO ON FUEL PUMP RELAY : NO SIGNAL TO FUEL PUMP RELAY
7. TO TRACE FAULT TO BAD CONNECTION ON FUEL PUMP RELAY BLOCK: CARRY OUT REPAIR
8. POWER NOW TO FUEL PUMP: NO FUEL PRESURE.
9. DRAIN LITRES OF FUEL FROM PETRON TANK AND SPEND TIME REMOVING FUEL PUMP CEILING RING FROM RUSTED FITTINGS, CUT RUSTED CLIPS FROM FUEL PIPES AND REMOVE FUEL PUMP.
10. TO TEST FUEL PUMP: FOUND TO BE UNSERVICABLE
11. SUPPLY AND FIT NEW FUEL PUMP WITH CLIPS + MODIFIED WIRING. CAR NOW STARTS BUT WILL NOT TICK OVER- RUNS WITH AIR LEAK AND MISFIRE.
12. CHECK ENGINE FOR LEAKS; RE_CONNECT 3 VACCUM PIPES THAT WERE DISCONNECTED
13. START CAR; CAR NOW TICKS OVER - NO AIR LEAK BUT HAS A MISFIRE AND ENGINE MANAGEMENT LIGHT IS ON.
14. CODE READ VEHICLE: FAULT INTERMITTENT TDC SENSOR SIGNAL
15. CHECK TDC SENSOR WHICH WAS LOOSE; RE-FITTED TDC CORRECTLY AND WIRING. CAR NOW RUNS AND NO ENGINE MANAGEMENT LIGHT IS ON.
PARTS:
FUEL PUMP £151.00
Clips £2.00
Sundries £5.00
Charge Battery £15.00
2x code read £95.00
Labour £491.00
VAT £132.00
TOTAL £891.83
I am preparing my case, i took the car to different garages and they confirm that the fuel pump was not changed and there is no reason why he would modify the wiring if he claims he bought the fuel pump from Vauxhaul directly.
As i said, i took the car to 5 garages, and also to Vauxhaul, they all gave me a report and took pictures last week.
Please, i want you to look at the invoice above , tell me anything you see wrong, give me points that i would use against this man in courts because people like this spoil the good name of hardworking mechanics out there.
You can send me private messages if possible.
Thansks
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My tip was going to be: Don't eat yellow snow! :D :D :D
But seriously...
Have you got written reports from the other garages? This "Mechanic" has stolen from you. I would be reporting him to the police in addition to claiming a full refund!
The invoice proves that he has charged you for work which wasn't required because he has stated there were no fault codes!
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He's taking the p*ss big time. Sounds like you have a good case against him though. That's an expensive jump start. :o
Kevin
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Think the best tip here....is get a different mechanic!
daylight robbery!
Also cost about what the car is worth!
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Even his invoice is wrong... VAT isn't a round figure!
Has the invoice got a VAT registration number on it?
There has been a serious crime committed here... Get the police involved ASAP! How long ago did this occur?
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£98 per hour labour, err no way.
Mick
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Contact Trading Standards ASAP .. :)
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definately get the ole bill involved..........or go to citizens advice or a solicitor.......................this guy has robbed you and acted illegally - BUT....you shouldnt have parted with any money mate - sorry..................but DONT LET IT GO.............. or, ring Trading Standards - best of luck - HTH :y
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claim for EVERYTHING!! claim for the 5 hours inconvenience and charge him £150 an hour for that!!
then burn his garage down!!
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claim for EVERYTHING!! claim for the 5 hours inconvenience and charge him £150 an hour for that!!
then burn his garage down!!
that's not what i would do at all... :-X :D
Good luck mate. You have a good case there
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Thats unbelivable :o :o :o ... as stated above get trading standards / consumer direct involved asap .
Hope you get your money back :y
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So no other OOF member falls for the scam name and shame.
Maybe get your money back first, but up to you.
regards
richard a
P.S. or maybe the reverse, we ALL book our Omegas in for work ;) ;)
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i have contacted the Trading Standards, they told that i have a good case, the fact that he has carried out an alleged Unauthorised work is onething, 5 Engineers reports including from vauxhaul is also a plus for me and i took all the pictures. Actually, he felt if he told me, i would just pay and no complain.
Though i paid him the money "Under protest" and collected my car but he has implicated himself because he said he bought the fuel pump from Vauxhaul and had to spend hours modifying the wires and and also modifying crankschaft sensor cable.
How can i upload these pictures for you to see?
Thanks everybody.
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Host them on a site like photobucket and post the links on here.
So....thats THE most expensive crank sensor fix I have ever seen
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More than likely the only actual fault if the car wasnt starting was the crank sensor...this will most likely be why the car wouldnt start...when you claim you want to be also claiming for a garage to put your car back to standard...there would be absolutely no need to change any wiring at all to fit standard Vauxhall parts to your standard Vauxhall Omega...and as said, price for labour is extortionate, more than Vauxhall themselves charge, and cost of checking codes...ahem, stick a paperclip in (or I suppose you could use a machine lol but still the same) and see what codes come up...with no codes approximate time 2 mins absolute maximum...at £45 a time??!!! :D
But ultimately you didnt ask for work to be done and certainly even if you had asked him to check it out £900 worth of work would require further authorisation!!
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Just as an addition might be worth taking the receipt to the inland revenue and suggest they may want to investigate the guys account...if hes a rogue trader then quite possibly the best way to get him put out of business
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claim for EVERYTHING!! claim for the 5 hours inconvenience and charge him £150 an hour for that!!
then burn his garage down!
wow i thought it was just me that thought like that
this dood should not get away with this do not let it go and put it down to experiance or he will keep doing it
Doug
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why did it need 2 ecu code reads?
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why did it need 2 ecu code reads?
Once to see that there were no codes, and once to read the codes he'd caused by rather about with it. >:(
Kevin
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Wait until you have your money before sending to IR - they have prior claim.
Any other action, best served cold >:(
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The best piece of advice I can give is that document EVERYTHING you do, keep a diary. Every time you telephone, visit or write. Do it in a chronological manner and when you get to the Small Claims Court (SCC) the Judge will find in your favour. You can get a claim form from your local County Court for about a tenner. Make list of what your true loss is with evidence, detail it on the form then hand it into the court. They will soon whack it on him and just before Christmas too. Good luck :)
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how did you pay?
If it was be credit card - explain the problem to your card provider. you should put the bill in dispute with the card company. they are resonsible for the goods and services you paid for
if it was by cheque, cancel it now
if cash, well ho hum
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hi everyboby,
Thanks for all the tips, here is the picture of my Fuel pump which he claimed to have change.
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/PHOTO4FUELPIPECLIPS.jpg
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/PHOTO3FUELPIPE.jpg
http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/Picture007.jpg
Without opening the seal, it was clear this unit was not even opened or could such rust happen withing 6 months?
Thanks
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No way should any garage go forward with work with out asking the customer to foot a bill of that size.
Can you see the fuel pump to see if it has been replaced.
What gets me is the fact that if there was no power to the pump then how did you drive it there?
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Hadnt seen the above pic link. theres no way that pump has been changed.
Trading standars and the law need involving imediately and have him shut down.
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this pump is prehistoric.. :(
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Just to help .. these are the pictures ... and if thats new .... I must be a virgin (again) ... but luckily it doesn't look like its been re-wired either .... :)
(http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/PHOTO4FUELPIPECLIPS.jpg)
(http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/PHOTO3FUELPIPE.jpg)
(http://i487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/Picture007.jpg)
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Not sure if this will help anyone in future, but I had un-asked for work done on a car of mine and the garage refused to give me the car until I paid. I told them to send me the invoice and we can argue later. As to not releasing the car, if they keep it, it amounts to theft! It is legal my car and it is up to them to try and get outstanding bills paid through court. You have 3 months to pay an invoice, regardless of what they say. Got my keys when I started phoning the old bill.
Secondly, My omega wouldnt start one day after it had been stood a while (turned over well, but didnt try to fire). I suspected the fuel pump and checked to find no fuel flowing. I asked a friend with an omega if he knew where I could get a cheap pump and he said he had the same problem with a slightly flat battery. Charged mine up and got fuel flowing again andd started straight away. I am sure someonre knows why, or will say a coincidence, but slightly flat batteries have stopped the fuel pump on 2 diferent omegas now (both petrol).
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Thank you everybody for your contributions, now in a despirate move by this rogue garage, he has sent me the followig documents claiming they are diagnosis reports for my car.
here is the link
http://s487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/?action=view¤t=wave.jpg
http://s487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/?action=view¤t=wave2.jpg
http://s487.photobucket.com/albums/rr237/oredona/?action=view¤t=wave22.jpg
I know this has nothing to do with my car because i found simalar diagram on the internet from another model of a car and all the Osciliscope look thesame.
Can somebody send me a Diagnostic report with Osciliscope and wave form from an omega so i can prove to the court that this report is not prom my car. i just need something to compare.
My car is a 1997 Vauxhaul omega 3.0 litres
Thanks
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....and also in this wave form sent to me by this rogue garage, i would like to know what does 32. Digital, DC frequency modulated represent, can anyone tell me what that reading means because on the one i found from autoda on the internet, everything looks the same except the reading on 32. Digital, DC frequency modulated, it's slightly different.
thanks
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Does he think you're stupid? They're the test INSTRUCTIONS from an Autodata manual, not results - plus the date says 18/12/20xx.
The "waveforms" are merely examples of certain waveforms and sod all to do with your car. Foot, shoot....
I think he's just given you more evidence he's an idiot..
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What is the current situation - are you taking it to court?
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You have had good advice from this site what is the present situation?.
It would appear to me you are dealing with a pikey
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thanks, yes i have taken him to court, funny enough he took a Solicitor from Bristol against me and this solicitors have been intimidating me, they sent me this alleged diagnosis report, they clearly said this was a report of the fault of my car.
They called an expert to look at the car, the expert which they instructed clearly saw what i have shown you all about the pump and just shook his head.
I cannot be intimidated, i know i will win this case, but i am looking for all evidences to make him look stupid if we go to court on the final hearing.
i also want to bring Contempt of court charges against him and report this issue with allhe has sent me to the trading standards.
This man is a rogue garage, i have spent over £1390, for a car which clear vauxhaull said might be battery not well charged up because the Crankshaft sensor was changed a day befor i too this car to his garage and he did not say he changed it.
Finally, he sent me a manipulated invoice claimed to be from vauxhaul office and in his invoice he claimedhe modified the fuel pump wiring. The garage told me that if he bouth the fuel pump from vauxhaual, then why should he modify the wiring?..
Thanks you all for your support, it gives me more strenght and courage..
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..also can you please send me copy of this test INSTRUCTIONS from an Autodata manual, so i can build up my case, i want to show to the court that this was a copy from somewhere not my car.
thanks
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I'm reading them as the test insructions, having seen a few similar things in my time; looks like the first column is the thin to be tested; second is some sort of wire/test socket number, or test number reference. The next column (arrows mainly) is an instruction (i.e. do this, or measure between earth and here), 4th is the condition to be met (i.e. 2000rpm/engine cranking); next is an expected result; 2nd to last column is an oscilloscope setting and last column an expected waveform (reference by the numbers in your first scan.
The fact the pages have the holes in for the binder doesn't help - what's the date which i can't fully make out (18/12/20xx)? Probably when the sheet was written - as there's not date on there showing when the test was done, vehicle registration, garage name..sod all.
I'd send them to Autodata asking them to confirm if these scans are from their manual..oh and being copyright, they might take a dim view of the "garage" copying them as well ;)
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thanks, i will send them today to Autodata and see what they say, i guess this garage thinks some motorist are stupid..
thanks
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Are there any mechanics on here you could use as an expert whitness?
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i would have love to have one, i have already got 5 witness confirmation 2 from Vauxhaul car dealers and 3 from different garages....they all confirm the same thing that, the fuel pump showm on that picture was not removed in anyway. You could see that it is an old pump but he has taken a Solicitor from Bristol and this guys keep intimidating me, saying thier client did change the pump and they diagosis report they sent me was a report for my car moreover, i did not even ask him to do anything, i only said help me check what was wrong and call me which he accepted in his Dfence Statement but he is claiming he has done it and i have to pay him..
Anyway, i know it might take long but i have a case and i am confident i will win. i do appreciate all you support.
I have sent a letters to autodata and i am waiting for thier response.
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It's currently 5 (other garages) vs 1 (him)...i'd tell his solicitor you'll see him in court and leave it at that..
If he's done work unauthorised by you, then why shoulf you pay? He should have offered you the old one to prove he changed it - or at least kept it for your inspection (I think that was introduced recently in law). Can he supply it? Bet he can't.. Bet he can't supply the invoice from when he bought it from Vauxhall either...
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You stand your ground there fella. This fool and his solicitor will not want to see this go to the court - stick to your guns and they will settle - they are just trying their luck to intimidate you into dropping the action. You have an overwhelmingly strong case; I can't believe that they are even considering defending it!
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I agree with the posts here. There is no reason for you to speak to this solicitor at all. For all you know it could be a mate of the guy. Just go to court and present your evidence. :y
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thanks,
Everytime i log into Omegaowners forum, i get encouraged, i sent a copy of the alleged Diagnosis report to Autodata yesterday and i got a fax today that the cpoies are not actuall diagnosis report for my car rather as philhoward sugested, it's just a test intruction.
The only thing that makes me wonder, is that why would he take a Solicitor for a small claim, if he feels he has a case, anyway, i have collected tonnes of evidence and i belive except the judge is baised against me because i am not a Solicitor, i have won the case and i will claim anything i can claim and report this garage to the trading standards.
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When you go for your "Hearing" it is done in the judges chambers and is more of a "chat" than a formal court procedure. You are required to have all your paperwork, and to have obeyed any instructions issued by the courts beforehand. In my case I was told to provide the other side with a copy of a document, I in fact sent them copies of ALL documents by registered mail. When they told the judge they had never recieved the document I produced the reciept and proof of delivery .... it all went very quiet... and the judge just looked at them, they went bright red and instantly agreed to my claim in full .. this includes all court fees and expenses in attending court .. :)
One small point .. as far as I know, if you take a company to court, as opposed to a private individual .. they MUST be represented by a "legal representative" as a company is not an entity that can attend court. So if this guy runs his garage as a limited company, that might be why .... not too certain of this but its a thought.
The judge will not expect you to have legal represntation .. in fact it is actively discouraged
http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/litigant-in-person-representing-self-in-court.html
Further edit as this might be usefull
Once you submit your claim both sides are sent a document called an "Allocation Questionaire" .. this MUST be completed and sent back within 14 days. On two occasions now companies have backed down and settled with me as son as they get the questionaire .. it proves you intend to actually take them to court
http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/allocation-questionnaire-court-hearing.html
Use that site , and all the info tabs on the left .. it is VERY helpful and accurate .. at the moment in the small claims court I'm undefeated .. played 3 won 3 .. :)
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When you go for your "Hearing" it is done in the judges chambers and is more of a "chat" than a formal court procedure. You are required to have all your paperwork, and to have obeyed any instructions issued by the courts beforehand. In my case I was told to provide the other side with a copy of a document, I in fact sent them copies of ALL documents by registered mail. When they told the judge they had never recieved the document I produced the reciept and proof of delivery .... it all went very quiet... and the judge just looked at them, they went bright red and instantly agreed to my claim in full .. this includes all court fees and expenses in attending court .. :)
I'll trump your card ....... ;D ;D ;D
Excellent!! :y :y
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As has been said those graphs mean nothing. For a start they are osciloscope readings for thinks like spark duration and dwell time which is completely irrelevant in your case since he claims to have been messing with the fuel system. And besides what would they prove if he claims to have found no faults?
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As i said earlier, i have just received a call from Autodata nd they are taking it seriously and the garage might end up into more trouble because if they find out that he is not a subscribed garage and using thier software illegally, that constitutes copyright violation.
Autodata sent me an email saying the graphs and test are copies from Pin Data 2006 that they are list of tests, conditions ECU pin numbers and known good values which should be when testing and diagnosing faults on the Engine management and it's related systems.
Autodata has agreed to further assist me in my case if i need any confirmation.
This garage has got more than it bargained for....
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Autodata has agreed to further assist me in my case if i need any confirmation.
This garage has got more than it bargained for....
Good news! :y :y :y :y
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Autodata has agreed to further assist me in my case if i need any confirmation.
This garage has got more than it bargained for....
Good news! :y :y :y :y
Fantastic... I hope he gets his arse kicked BIG STYLE! ;D
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thanks all...i will update the forum of any developments..thanks,... you all have given me courage..
:y :y