Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: feeutfo on 04 February 2009, 22:35:23
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well, 52 plate actually, it was made in 03.
Anyway, had a problem with the rear waveing around, feels like... the rear is in a cross wind but the front is not/rear tires are flat/ a cut and shut/ something loose at the back, say, end float on the rear wishbones or something. Not saying there is,cant find any, just trying to describe how it "feels".
Example, cruise set at 80, lane 3 of the m4. One finger very carefully placed on the stearing wheel spoke and concentrate on how much pressure i need to apply to keep the car on a very slight right hand bend, and wait.... Then for no reason, except maybe a slight change in road surface, and absolutely no change in feel on my finger, the rear moves left! And i have to stear left as the car is now aiming at the barrier a bit. Can be quite alarming esp in lane 1 with tram lines.
Car has, at the front, heavy duty bushes in front wishbones, stearing idler is fine springs not broken checked by Tony at Wim. front springs and shocks are ok but original, 75k old.
Rear has new self levelers and springs with senator donut bushes in the trailing arms.
Have tweaked the stearing box to take out what little slack there was.
Had wim set up and ride hight check and there is 9 mill of difference between opposite corners but 10 mill is allowed Tony says.
Spoke to Mark dtm and he said change front shocks, so may as well do springs as well...
To drive i would swear blind the problem was at the back, but Mark very probably has a point, if the front shocks are slow or buggerd and the front dips on one corner i suppose that would give you a teetoring feeling, in a table with one short leg style.
Any thoughts on symptoms and best options on spring and struts much appreciated. Gm or Bilstein etc?
Cheers
Chris. :-)
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It's an Omega :) But really, I have similar issue and have read (here and on local Opel forum also) of several people having the same vague feeling on their Omegas. All seems and should be right, no play anywhere, full geometry done, no matter which set of wheels you use (I have tried four different sets without any luck), still sometimes when driving straight you get this sudden need for correction on steering as you described. I have no idea what so ever where is the reason.
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Thanks kcl, its very annoying isnt it? I dont remember this feeling from the back on my old 99 omega though. But that had front wishbones fitted wrongly in my pre forum days.
My original thoughts on this where to change other bushes in the rear suspension, and in the interest of eliminating cheaper options before going to the expense of front shocks and springs, i wonder if other bushes are worth changeing? I have some for the rear of the trailing arms, (having done the donuts at the front of the trailing arms), but, having been under there with a lever, i cant see any play in either those or the rear wishbone bushes. So that only leaves front shocks and springs. Or live with it?
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MY 02 3.2 ELITE WAS TRANSFORMED WHEN I FITTED POLICE SPEC SPRINGS AND DAMPERS ALL ROUND AT 96 K - NO MORE CORKSCREWING..........
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Are the front strutt upper bearings ok?
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Perhaps its something with the 52 Facelifts because my 52 facelift does the same, it seems fine on nice flat roads, motorways are usually fine but worn grooved roads and it just seems to wander off line.
Its been WIM'd after I changed the front wishbones. I thought it might be something to do with having tyres that had worn badly from being on the front put on the rear, but I've just changed these and its still the same (but not quite as bad)
Like you I was thinking it was the rear end stepping out but now not so sure.
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Are the front strutt upper bearings ok?
Dont know, how do you check em?
Jb you def think its suspension(up and down) rather than bushes(side to side)? Sounds like 2nd vote for shocks and springs if so...
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apart from the cause/symptoms, anybody got an idea on what shocks and springs to fit. Its an Elite with self leveling at the back. So does this mean gm shocks and springs only? Are they expensive or are bilsteins better for less cash?
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Front shocks are £43.57 per side on trade club:-
LH 9192249, RH 9192250
However springs aren't on TC so not sure about the cost. I know the genuine rear springs for Elites with self levelling are £300 ish, though I can't imagine the fronts being that expensive.
If going for sports type suspension I think id be inclined to replace both front and rear and ditch the self levelling - at least it should all match then for ride height etc.
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apart from the cause/symptoms, anybody got an idea on what shocks and springs to fit. Its an Elite with self leveling at the back. So does this mean gm shocks and springs only? Are they expensive or are bilsteins better for less cash?
The previous owner on my Elite estate had replaced the shocks and springs to Bilsteins front and rear, so the self levelling shocks had been removed, I found the suspension very hard compared to my previous saloon Elite with standard suspension, but now I've grown to put up with it and the handling is much improved from the previous wobbly barge..
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apart from the cause/symptoms, anybody got an idea on what shocks and springs to fit. Its an Elite with self leveling at the back. So does this mean gm shocks and springs only? Are they expensive or are bilsteins better for less cash?
The previous owner on my Elite estate had replaced the shocks and springs to Bilsteins front and rear, so the self levelling shocks had been removed, I found the suspension very hard compared to my previous saloon Elite with standard suspension, but now I've grown to put up with it and the handling is much improved from the previous wobbly barge..
Hi Weds. Thanks for your replies, so you have Bilsteins all round. And from your previous post, you still have constant correction at the wheel?
If so that would imply new shocks would not improve things ?
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apart from the cause/symptoms, anybody got an idea on what shocks and springs to fit. Its an Elite with self leveling at the back. So does this mean gm shocks and springs only? Are they expensive or are bilsteins better for less cash?
The previous owner on my Elite estate had replaced the shocks and springs to Bilsteins front and rear, so the self levelling shocks had been removed, I found the suspension very hard compared to my previous saloon Elite with standard suspension, but now I've grown to put up with it and the handling is much improved from the previous wobbly barge..
Hi Weds. Thanks for your replies, so you have Bilsteins all round. And from your previous post, you still have constant correction at the wheel?
If so that would imply new shocks would not improve things ?
Yes as far as I'm aware, last time I looked, yellow struts and springs front and back and the air lines coiled up. Dam compressor still used to kick in though (till I pulled the fuse)
Cars only done 55K, I wouldn't say I have constant corrections. I'm not sure how you would describe it, but the steering at some times just doesn't seem connected to the steering. (Not in a dangerous sense!) just ruts and groves in the road knock it off line and just needs bringing back in line, like yourself i was thinking it was rear end steer..
I was out today in it and started to give it some more attention. I think its more front end related, I'll need to drive over the same bit of road a few times to see if its repeatable.
Would tyre make have any influence on this ? mine are Pirelli Pzero Rosso
I think the jury's still out on this, mine has just passed its MOT, that not saying everythings OK, but if there was any slop anywhere they might have picked it up.
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apart from the cause/symptoms, anybody got an idea on what shocks and springs to fit. Its an Elite with self leveling at the back. So does this mean gm shocks and springs only? Are they expensive or are bilsteins better for less cash?
The previous owner on my Elite estate had replaced the shocks and springs to Bilsteins front and rear, so the self levelling shocks had been removed, I found the suspension very hard compared to my previous saloon Elite with standard suspension, but now I've grown to put up with it and the handling is much improved from the previous wobbly barge..
Hi Weds. Thanks for your replies, so you have Bilsteins all round. And from your previous post, you still have constant correction at the wheel?
If so that would imply new shocks would not improve things ?
Yes as far as I'm aware, last time I looked, yellow struts and springs front and back and the air lines coiled up. Dam compressor still used to kick in though (till I pulled the fuse)
Cars only done 55K, I wouldn't say I have constant corrections. I'm not sure how you would describe it, but the steering at some times just doesn't seem connected to the steering. (Not in a dangerous sense!) just ruts and groves in the road knock it off line and just needs bringing back in line, like yourself i was thinking it was rear end steer..
I was out today in it and started to give it some more attention. I think its more front end related, I'll need to drive over the same bit of road a few times to see if its repeatable.
Would tyre make have any influence on this ? mine are Pirelli Pzero Rosso
I think the jury's still out on this, mine has just passed its MOT, that not saying everythings OK, but if there was any slop anywhere they might have picked it up.
yes, sorry, "constant" correction is probably a bit strong. I would say the heavy duty bushes pressed in my wishbones by Mark dtm improved the front in that reguard def worth doing imho...?
Also its interesting you mention tires, i spoke to Tony at Wim late today, after a run down of the cars spec he said it would be worth swapping tires, or wheels more realistically, with another car and see if that makes a difference before spending cash on shocks. He has had customers complain of "being in a cross wind" in other make cars and tires. I did mention shoveing the car at the side by hand shows obvious wobble in the tire wall,anyway,
I Have mentioned this to a mate with a bmw with same size tires and 5 studs, hopefully they will fit, he has michilins that hum on certain road surfaces and wants to give falkens a spin. We'll see.
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I have found mine tramlines a bit on worn tyres at the front. Once they're below about 4mm or so they start to get worse. I tend to wear them down to the indicators and it's like a breath of fresh air when they are changed. During this latter half of the tyre's life I find inflation is pretty critical to a decent ride.
YMMV with a different tyre though.
Kevin
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Just another thought.. Reading the thread on car handling here..
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1230580429/15
There's mention of different manufacturers of front wishbones, one from Autovax and the other cheaper one from vauxcentre, is there any difference between the 2 makes are the cheaper ones perhaps inferior.
I have replaced my original wishbones with the cheaper ones, perhaps this could be part of the problem if the bushes are not as rigid on the cheaper wishbones..
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Mine's the same.
The handling, at say, motorway speeds, is certainly not 'reassuring'
New correctly-inflated tyres all round, camber and wheel alignment spot-on, and no wear anywhere.
Agreed - they seem to throw-up a few surprises, and worse in windy conditions. Suppose I'll have to live with it, though the wife absolutely adores the car!
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Just another thought.. Reading the thread on car handling here..
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1230580429/15
There's mention of different manufacturers of front wishbones, one from Autovax and the other cheaper one from vauxcentre, is there any difference between the 2 makes are the cheaper ones perhaps inferior.
I have replaced my original wishbones with the cheaper ones, perhaps this could be part of the problem if the bushes are not as rigid on the cheaper wishbones..
Its possible on your car Weds,(mine has heavy duty, stiffer than stock, bushes pressed into genuine wishbones)esp as you say your wayward feel seems to come from the front. The construction of the arm itself "should" be oe spec.
If you still have the old wishbones you may want to press better bushes into them. Let me know if you want further details as i am fairly happy with the feel through the steering wheel on mine, although i intend to get m5 bushes pressed eventually which are stiffer still but "may"start to give a harsher feel, thats always going to be the trade off with the omega design.(imho)bump steer comes into it, but not totally sure how.
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If you still have the old wishbones you may want to press better bushes into them.
Bugger, I threw them away :-(
I have another thought..
I have a remote camera that I use as a head cam when mountain biking..
like this http://www.sports-camera.com/pack_1.htm
I was thinking of mounting it looking at the wishbone bushes to see if you can see the amount of deflection in the arm when moving.
When the weather gets a bit brighter and dryer I might experiment.
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If you still have the old wishbones you may want to press better bushes into them.
Bugger, I threw them away :-(
I have another thought..
I have a remote camera that I use as a head cam when mountain biking..
like this http://www.sports-camera.com/pack_1.htm
I was thinking of mounting it looking at the wishbone bushes to see if you can see the amount of deflection in the arm when moving.
When the weather gets a bit brighter and dryer I might experiment.
Do you know, i had the exact same idea with a mobile phone with video, but aimed at the back in my case. And beep the horn when it does something unpleasant to mark the moment.
As you say, dry salt free roads would help...
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And beep the horn when it does something unpleasant to mark the moment.
I hadn't thought of that. I was also thinking of having another camera filming inside the car and then sync them up later.
Roll on summer then....
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Front shocks are £43.57 per side on trade club:-
LH 9192249, RH 9192250
Would these fit a 02 52 2.6 v6 Saloon ?,
if they do its the best price around, apart from shipping from Germany.
thanks
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Front shocks are £43.57 per side on trade club:-
LH 9192249, RH 9192250
Would these fit a 02 52 2.6 v6 Saloon ?,
if they do its the best price around, apart from shipping from Germany.
thanks
Yeah, pretty good, but remember thats a trade club price. Get tc membership card here, annual fee £20
http://www.autobahnstormers.org/
Well worth doing. :-)
Unfortunately springs more than make up for the cheaper shocks, anyone know a good alternative to vx springs?
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deff your springs and shocks,also check you have not overajusted the steering box............
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deff your springs and shocks,also check you have not overajusted the steering box............
Thanks jb, the more i think about it, the more i tend to agree, if it was tires the front would be moving in the same way, it would not be related just to one end of the car, as the the tires are same all round.
Was concerned about over doing the box, very little play was found and a tiny adjustment given, turned wheel 90 degrees off centre and adjusted in that position. Think thats correct?
Ps, when really saying attention to the suspension i think i can feel the left front giving different softer feel than the right esp over speed bumps... I think....
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Exactly the same problem with my barge, only things left to replace are the pitman arm then the steering box...
Although thinking about it, I have not changed springs on the front - any recommendations on springs?