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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: sophos9 on 15 January 2009, 19:32:39

Title: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 15 January 2009, 19:32:39
Hi,

I've noticed a load of oil left where ever I park, checked under the car tonight and can see oil loss from the back of the engine (covering exhausts and autobox)

I've changed both camcovers - no leaks at all, in the last 2 years changed the oil cooler alongside all of the unions/banjos etc

Whats the main culprit from the rear of the engine please :(
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 January 2009, 19:34:03
When you changed the oil cooler did you bend the cooler pipes or do it properly?
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 15 January 2009, 19:48:12
Mark, Hi

I'm embarrassed to say - I bent the pipes :(
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Entwood on 15 January 2009, 19:50:09
Quote
Mark, Hi

I'm embarrassed to say - I bent the pipes :(


I have a feeling I know what Mark's next comment might be ...... :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 15 January 2009, 19:52:09
The suspense is killing me?

Split pipe? (would explain the weird oil leak down the passenger side block over the crank sensor which I thought was head gasket)

....  :-[
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 January 2009, 19:56:32
Right....there are many reasons why we say NOT to bend the pipes.

1) It results in tension on the cooler pipe bolts which can result in leaks around teh oil cooler and under worst case scenarios can snap the bolts!

2) It makes it harder to put the rather pipes back on

3) It loosens the cooler to block unions resulting in high pressure oil spraying round the back of the engine

Sorry  :y :y :y ;D
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: TheBoy on 15 January 2009, 19:59:38
Take notice of the man above.  I wish I had  :-[
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Entwood on 15 January 2009, 20:00:28
Ahh .. I only knew about item 3 ..... hence the tears ... as I believe the only "fix" is another oil cooler ??

Hope I'm wrong .......  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 January 2009, 20:01:43
No, it means removing the oil filter and tightening the pipe to block unions using a 19mm crows foot spanner......just like you do when you do the job properly  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: TheBoy on 15 January 2009, 20:02:35
Quote
Ahh .. I only knew about item 3 ..... hence the tears ... as I believe the only "fix" is another oil cooler ??

Hope I'm wrong .......  :'( :'( :'(
unlikely new cooler needed, sometimes new pipes.  though most likely pipes need to be completely removed and tweaked
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 15 January 2009, 20:04:10
oh my god  :-[  :-[  :-[  :'(

So plenum and fuel rail off to inspect the damage?

Out of interest (and before I pull it apart) - is there anywhere else at the back of the engine that would leak oil? There are no leaks at all visible from the engine bay...

Also, is it safe to assume that I could be looking at a new oil cooler?

AND  :'(  would I be best to get some replacement pipes from a scrapper (are they hard to fit?)

Would really appreciate the help before I go and do something else thats stupid  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[  :-[
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 January 2009, 20:08:05
Fear not as you are not the first.

I preach this many times and its in the guide but, some think they know better and try to cut a corner.

Some get away with it but, all to often it backfires. And there will be some who post up and say 'I bend the pipes and have no problems' well, thier lucky.....but, it aint worth the risk and hassle when it does (to often) go wrong and the job is much easier with the pipes disconnected  :y

So first thing to do is take the oil filter off and check the block unions are tight.....loosen them first to remove the spring from the (now bent) pipes.

Wash the area down and keep an eye on it, if its not sorted then its back to looking in the valley!
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 January 2009, 20:10:08
Blimey....I must be in a right moaning mood tonight!

Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: TheBoy on 15 January 2009, 20:11:36
Quote
Fear not as you are not the first.

I preach this many times and its in the guide but, some think they know better and try to cut a corner.

Some get away with it but, all to often it backfires. And there will be some who post up and say 'I bend the pipes and have no problems' well, thier lucky.....but, it aint worth the risk and hassle when it does (to often) go wrong and the job is much easier with the pipes disconnected  :y

So first thing to do is take the oil filter off and check the block unions are ight.....loosen them first to remvoe the spring from the (now bent) pipes.

Wash the area down and keep an eye on it, if its not sorted then its back to looking in the valley!
::)   :-X

in my experience, bending pipes causes leak at filter end anyway, so you still end up having to loosen then that end anyway
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: TheBoy on 15 January 2009, 20:12:23
Quote
Blimey....I must be in a right moaning mood tonight!

miserable git ;D

getting 'tired', are we?  nearly bedtime ;D
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 15 January 2009, 20:12:47
Thanks mate - in my defence I just replaced it and did not use the guide (lesson learnt right!), the oil cooler plate was leaking coolant and upon undoing the banjo, the thread went in the cooler - so I just sorted it

Will do, got crows foot spanner set and have to do an oil change soon.

Will the unions near the oil filter just undo or are there any washers or anything that needs to be replaced?

Thanks for your help, much appreciated!
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 January 2009, 20:15:51
Quote
Thanks mate - in my defence I just replaced it and did not use the guide (lesson learnt right!), the oil cooler plate was leaking coolant and upon undoing the banjo, the thread went in the cooler - so I just sorted it

Will do, got crows foot spanner set and have to do an oil change soon.

Will the unions near the oil filter just undo or are there any washers or anything that needs to be replaced?

Thanks for your help, much appreciated!

They just undo....often pretty tight....
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 15 January 2009, 20:19:03
Excellent - will check on the weekend and post back the results ;)

Thanks again for your help!
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 09 February 2009, 11:58:07
Got under the car and had a look around (should have taken some photos)... The pipe to the left of the filter is clean, no problems but the pipe to the right is covered in oil. The strange this is that there is oil coming from much higher (on the pipe and on the block)

I used a crowsfoot spanner however could not move it (is the bolt head normally shaped?) even made a tool but would not move.

2 questions...
There is no leak from the gasket, replaced not long ago and checked - the only other alternatives are head gasket or oil filler neck. You have previously said its 'impossible' for HG to leak there... Any ideas or do you think its oil 'travelling'

Could I cut through the oil pipe and use a standard socket to remove union (to replace with one from a scrapper)?

Thanks
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: duggs on 09 February 2009, 20:14:22
Can't thank you enough for this post....EXACTLY the same symptons as I've had for a while now...couldn't for the life of me see what was at fault until I read your post.

Problem appeared for me directly after an oil change. Perhaps the garage "knocked" the pipes slightly but I've always thought that oil was squirting under pressure from somewhere down there because the oil almost appears like a thin mist over everything...NOT a constant defineable leak.

Spoke to the main stealers and they said the pipes can't be touched without the oil cooler being changed....NOT what the replies above would suggest. ?
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 10 February 2009, 08:55:11
duggs, glad this thread has offered some value. The oil cooler pipes are only messed up when you change the oil cooler and like me, dont undo the unions just bend the pipe. I dont think that this goes to say the unions will never leak though...

Have you checked the oil filler neck? This has an oring seal on it and can leak although I think you would see witness signs of burnt oil on the exhaust manifold

Hopefully Mark can help with the questions - then we can thank him together :)
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 10 February 2009, 09:02:23
Some times the cooler pipes take some shifting.....I have on occasion had to use a 600mm bar.

You do indeed get a very fine mist from the union as the oil is at full pump ressure at this point.

As for the mist following an oil change, has the hand fisted mechanic over tightened and cracked the oil filter case (which is also at full pump pressure!)

Oil leaking from the headgasket......for this to happen you would be suffering major compression losses and coolant leaks first!
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 10 February 2009, 09:12:16
Quote
Oil leaking from the headgasket......for this to happen you would be suffering major compression losses and coolant leaks first!

Am suffering coolant leaks however I can see evidence of a leak from the radiator. I topped the oil up today and the filler cap and neck was totally crammed full of mayo, loads of it - did not notice any on the dipstick length tho?

The car does not suffer with any lack of performance...

How did you get a 600mm bar in there, I cannot get enough room anywhere - is that an engine mount or something that gets in the way and can I remove it?

Thanks mate
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 10 February 2009, 09:12:20
For further info, here is a pic of a head with the various channles coloured so you cna see what they do:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Headinfocoloured.jpg)

Red=Main high pressure oil feed (note, this is on the inlet side so in the V!)
Brown=Oil return (note, lower than atmosperic pressure due to the rbeatehr setup)
Blue=Water
Title: Re: Yet another oil leak...
Post by: sophos9 on 10 February 2009, 09:56:19
Thanks as always - based on that picture - I can only agree with you that the HG is def not plausible

The suspects are union and oil filler neck, as you have said - money is on union.

Basically, I'm buying another car for a while and will have the Omega in pieces sorting all the faults so will replace the dodgy pipe/union during that.

New car is a Alfa Romeo GTV for the summer..