Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: chrisdb on 11 January 2009, 11:21:02
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Hi
The timing belt change interval was changed from 80k to 40k miles and from what I gather this is because the tensioner could go rather than the belt. With that in mind, would it be more sensible (cheaper) to change only the tensioner every 40k miles and do the entire set evry 80k?
At the moment I'm having do do a complete change every year :-/
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my view is no. Why:
in terms of a cambelt kit, the belts are cheap and the tensioners are expensive
second, the belt has to come off to do the tensioners
third, after 40k miles the alignment marks on the belt will wear off: not a BIG problem but it is just a bit easier to fit a belt with alignment marks (it gets you roughly right before the timing kit goes on)
If I were you, I'd buy the DVD, timing kit and change it yourself. A couple of hours each year is nothing for peace of mind
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when i tried putting a timing belt with the marks onto a 2.6 to turn the crank with a socket the belt physically wouldnt go round cams 1 and 2 to match the markings (only way to get them to match was to take the tensioner off and then it still wouldnt match trying to get the tensioner to fit as there wasnt enough slack!)
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my view is no. Why:
in terms of a cambelt kit, the belts are cheap and the tensioners are expensive
second, the belt has to come off to do the tensioners
third, after 40k miles the alignment marks on the belt will wear off: not a BIG problem but it is just a bit easier to fit a belt with alignment marks (it gets you roughly right before the timing kit goes on)
If I were you, I'd buy the DVD, timing kit and change it yourself. A couple of hours each year is nothing for peace of mind
I do do it myself. The question was about the cost of parts - why pay £99 if only one part needs changing. The belts don't actually have timing marks anymore. But... if you need all the rollers and tensioners then I agree in that case - cost of the belt's not worth worring about.
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when i tried putting a timing belt with the marks onto a 2.6 to turn the crank with a socket the belt physically wouldnt go round cams 1 and 2 to match the markings (only way to get them to match was to take the tensioner off and then it still wouldnt match trying to get the tensioner to fit as there wasnt enough slack!)
This wasn't a Gates kit was it? If you use the white marks it won't line up, you need to use the green lines for the crank and cams 1 & 2 and the white lines for 3 & 4. Took me a while to figure this out.
My belts get changed every 60K so 2.5 years for me but that's my engine and my risk. Currently on the third.
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when i tried putting a timing belt with the marks onto a 2.6 to turn the crank with a socket the belt physically wouldnt go round cams 1 and 2 to match the markings (only way to get them to match was to take the tensioner off and then it still wouldnt match trying to get the tensioner to fit as there wasnt enough slack!)
This wasn't a Gates kit was it? If you use the white marks it won't line up, you need to use the green lines for the crank and cams 1 & 2 and the white lines for 3 & 4. Took me a while to figure this out.
My belts get changed every 60K so 2.5 years for me but that's my engine and my risk. Currently on the third.
Ditto regarding the markings - I nearly wet my pants when I tried to line up the white markings and they were nowhere near! It took me 10 mins to realise that I should line up the crank and cams 1&2 with the green lines, and 3&4 with the white ones. :y
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Change the kit. The belt cost is insignificant compared to tensioner and pulley costs. Also do the waterpump every other cambelt (every cambelt for 4 cylinder).
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And for the record, GM ones are starting to get the markings on again
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And for the record, GM ones are starting to get the markings on again
Just out of curiosity how would you do a cambelt without any marking on the belt?
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And for the record, GM ones are starting to get the markings on again
Just out of curiosity how would you do a cambelt without any marking on the belt?
Lock crank and cams as normal.
Route belt as normal - just ensure that you leave a tooth of slack between the crank and tensioner - and that the belt is taught everywhere else.
I've never had a problem with a no markings belt...
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And for the record, GM ones are starting to get the markings on again
Just out of curiosity how would you do a cambelt without any marking on the belt?
Lock crank and cams as normal.
Route belt as normal - just ensure that you leave a tooth of slack between the crank and tensioner - and that the belt is taught everywhere else.
I've never had a problem with a no markings belt...
Personally find it easier to fit without marks on the belt, you are not trying to get the lines inline with the cut outs :y
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And for the record, GM ones are starting to get the markings on again
Just out of curiosity how would you do a cambelt without any marking on the belt?
The markings are unimportant, though some people, esp if never done before, like that 'confirmation' that its routed right...
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And for the record, GM ones are starting to get the markings on again
Just out of curiosity how would you do a cambelt without any marking on the belt?
Lock crank and cams as normal.
Route belt as normal - just ensure that you leave a tooth of slack between the crank and tensioner - and that the belt is taught everywhere else.
I've never had a problem with a no markings belt...
Personally find it easier to fit without marks on the belt, you are not trying to get the lines inline with the cut outs :y
Agreed Daz
In reality it's something or nothing, Although it it's for a customer, I use the marks - 'cos it looks more professional :)
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Cool - sorted then - will get the whole kit :) When I did the last change I really struggled to get the belt on for a while, and suddenly it went on really easily. Hopefully will get a new VX belt with the marks on this time and can see if it makes it easier first time.
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when i tried putting a timing belt with the marks onto a 2.6 to turn the crank with a socket the belt physically wouldnt go round cams 1 and 2 to match the markings (only way to get them to match was to take the tensioner off and then it still wouldnt match trying to get the tensioner to fit as there wasnt enough slack!)
This wasn't a Gates kit was it? If you use the white marks it won't line up, you need to use the green lines for the crank and cams 1 & 2 and the white lines for 3 & 4. Took me a while to figure this out.
My belts get changed every 60K so 2.5 years for me but that's my engine and my risk. Currently on the third.
Ditto regarding the markings - I nearly wet my pants when I tried to line up the white markings and they were nowhere near! It took me 10 mins to realise that I should line up the crank and cams 1&2 with the green lines, and 3&4 with the white ones. :y
Strange, I just fitted a Gates kit a week ago and don't remember this. Different source of belt perhaps?
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Cool - sorted then - will get the whole kit :) When I did the last change I really struggled to get the belt on for a while, and suddenly it went on really easily. Hopefully will get a new VX belt with the marks on this time and can see if it makes it easier first time.
Gm prices are to high, get a gates or contitech kit and save 30-50 quid!
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Damn, for some reason I only got this topic notification today and I've already bought the VX kit now :( Still I'll know for next year!
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My Haynes book says the replacement interval for the timing belt was INCREASED from 40k to 80K in 1997 (not decreased from 80k to 40K).
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The 2.5 I sold in October has just had to be towed in.
Tensioner had broken up, belt had slipped and "Yep, You Guessed it" BENT VALVES.
Not even going to try to replace them, Engine swap
I can get a gates kit, depending on the varient, for £65 to £75 +vat
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My Haynes book says the replacement interval for the timing belt was INCREASED from 40k to 80K in 1997 (not decreased from 80k to 40K).
Ahhh....the book of lies!
Its wrong :y
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My Haynes book says the replacement interval for the timing belt was INCREASED from 40k to 80K in 1997 (not decreased from 80k to 40K).
Ahhh....the book of lies!
Its wrong :y
Not strictly true Mr DTM... It was increased for a short while until Vx realised that the tensioners couldn't go that long, then it was returned to 40k. So Mr Haynes was correct, but only for a short time ::) ::)
But... 40k is plenty for my engines... About 18 months for me :y :y :y
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My Haynes book says the replacement interval for the timing belt was INCREASED from 40k to 80K in 1997 (not decreased from 80k to 40K).
Ahhh....the book of lies!
Its wrong :y
Not strictly true Mr DTM... It was increased for a short while until Vx realised that the tensioners couldn't go that long, then it was returned to 40k. So Mr Haynes was correct, but only for a short time ::) ::)
But... 40k is plenty for my engines... About 18 months for me :y :y :y
Again , not true, the original V6 came with an interval of 80K miles.....this was revised around 1997 (interestingly just as the first units were approaching 4 years of age!)
Quote from TIS:
As of modelyear 1997 until modelyear 2002:
Engine: Model: Replacement interval:
------- ------ ----------------
4 valve petrol all without Vectra-C 60.000 km / 4 Years
2 valve petrol and deisel all 120.000 km / 8 Years
Y17DT, Y17DTL Corsa-C, Astra-G 150.000 km /10 Years
.
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My Haynes book says the replacement interval for the timing belt was INCREASED from 40k to 80K in 1997 (not decreased from 80k to 40K).
Ahhh....the book of lies!
Its wrong :y
Not strictly true Mr DTM... It was increased for a short while until Vx realised that the tensioners couldn't go that long, then it was returned to 40k. So Mr Haynes was correct, but only for a short time ::) ::)
But... 40k is plenty for my engines... About 18 months for me :y :y :y
Again , not true, the original V6 came with an interval of 80K miles.....this was revised around 1997 (interestingly just as the first units were approaching 4 years of age!)
Quote from TIS:
As of modelyear 1997 until modelyear 2002:
Engine: Model: Replacement interval:
------- ------ ----------------
4 valve petrol all without Vectra-C 60.000 km / 4 Years
2 valve petrol and deisel all 120.000 km / 8 Years
Y17DT, Y17DTL Corsa-C, Astra-G 150.000 km /10 Years
.
I stand corrected :-[ :-[ :-[ I thought they had upped the interval for a year or so from 40-80k. I'm sure my 99 service schedule says 80k interval :-/ :-/
[edit]Just checked it and it definitely says 80k in the service book[/edit]
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Many of the service books do....
Here is more of the TIS info:
Please observe the following toothbelt service interval instructions.
Note: This Quick Information will be deleted upon revision of the Service Instruction on
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.....
Y17DT, Y17DTL Corsa-C, Astra-G 150.000 km /10 Years .....
I suppose I should really change mine then! It's 10 year old car with at least 160 000 miles on it & I've no idea when it was last changed! ::) :y :y
Just a ball ache to set up really as there's no proper timing marks on the cam & the cam is only on a taper fit to the sprocket! :-?
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Just had a look at when the cambelt was last changed on mine - it was done by Marshall's of ely and with a 60,000 mile service cost £522.
The cambelt kit was £112 and labour costs (2.2 hours) £123.
Mileage was 58755 and was done on april 2005 - so previous owner waited 5 years and 58k before changing cambelt - was he fortunate to get away with it?
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I reported earlier that my Haynes book says the interval was changed from 40k to 80k from 1997. I decided to telephone the garages that had done earlier services before I bought my car to see when a cambelt change was done.
The first garage I rang told me the following tale. The service interval was reduced from 80k to 40k (presumably after the increase) but Vauxhall did not tell customers. They relied on Vx garages to tell them when the car was taken in for a service. So someone taking their car to a non-Vx garage would not necessarily know. An Omega owner with 72k miles who didn't know about the 80k to 40k reduction had booked a cambelt change with the Vx garage. He didn't make it, the engine blew before he got there and he paid £3k for a new engine.
PeterF
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I've had two V6 Omegas 99 & 03 both stipulated 80,000 dealers said 40,000. I queried this with Vx (citing a design fault). They would not admit in writing it should be 40 saying that "my engine type" is Ok for 80. They promised to "contribute" towards repair if failed before 80 assuming full dealer SH. Anyway, I bottled it and had it done on both at 60.
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Just had a look at when the cambelt was last changed on mine - it was done by Marshall's of ely and with a 60,000 mile service cost £522.
The cambelt kit was £112 and labour costs (2.2 hours) £123.
Mileage was 58755 and was done on april 2005 - so previous owner waited 5 years and 58k before changing cambelt - was he fortunate to get away with it?
So its nearly due now as 40k or 4years is recommended
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My Haynes book says the replacement interval for the timing belt was INCREASED from 40k to 80K in 1997 (not decreased from 80k to 40K).
Heinous manual. ::) ;)
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I recall the original was 60,000 and this was upped to 80,000 in 1998 when a new tensioner with wider range was fitted (agreed it is now down to 40,000/4 years). Mine snapped at 62,000, I think my car was built just before the new tensioner. It did give me plenty of warning - loud noise, but the idiot in the Vaux dealer I took it to said it might be the water pump, and I didn't know any better then. It finally snapped 2 days later, actually on the way to a decent Vaux garage. My new elite is due this Nov by years or 22,000 by miles. Given the car only cost me £795 and I now know the sound of a belt going I am likely to wait for the 22,000. Also last time it was done by Vaux they put the fan belt back on the wrong way round, causing that to slip and eventually fail. Plus I don't think they got the timing spot on.
What's the longest in miles and years anyone has manged?
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Cough :o shake the dust off lol,not worth the risk chancing it on belt life,its too costly if it breaks especially on the V6's
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you wont always get a warning noise.They can and often do let go instantaniously. ;)
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I know the shortest was under 10 miles! :o
I wouldn't advise going over the 40k/4 years ;)
And, for the record, I don't recall any Omega interval being 60k/6 years ever... Perhaps more bad advice from a poor dealer :-\
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I do my 4 pot every four years and it will not have done more than 20,000 miles...complete kit and water pump....peace of mind is a wonderful thing :y :)
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I had a 3.0 1998 mv6 r336ejo ,first belt kit change at 93 k with a Gate Kit in 2003 and still running strong at 180k today - all motorway mileage so not many hours.
Have a 3.0 2000 facelift also changed for the first time at 92 k in 2011 - tensioner bearing just starting to leak grease.
However better safe than sorry...............also always chage the water pump.......