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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 17:37:31

Title: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 17:37:31
I have not long had my oil cooler done! (Got car back on 5th January!)
Since i had it back i've been flushing the coolant system out weekly and i've just checked it today when i got home from work and the coolant is black! No the chocolate colour it was when had my oil cooler done. I have noticed my engin ehas been sounding a little bit spluttery recently as well! I'm really worried as i've spend nearly £1000 on it so far!

What could this be?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 17:55:20
I think it is definitly oil! As it sticks to my finger! I've really looked after it since i got it back! Surely the oil cooler hasn't gone again!
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: vauxfan2k on 17 February 2009, 18:04:46
I think this is one of these things that someone has to see to be able to give advice, have you checked the filler cap and dipstick for contamination?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:09:41
Checked all usual things, dipstick is completely clear, was a little tiny bit of condensation in the filler neck but its only 3 miles to my new day job so i expect that its no more than i've ever had before, just this is absolutely jet black oil colour. I actually last changed the water two weeks ago as i wasn't getting as much oil through from the oil cooler change. Put 4 litres of red antifreeze in and topped up with water. I just rang the garage and he said its either oil cooler again, (which perhaps means it wasn't fitted properly!?!) Or hg, which i hope its not! He also said it could be perished rubber from the inside of the pipes as i didn't replace them with the oil cooler change. But from the way it sticks to my finger and doesn't move i'd definitly say its oil!. But the oil level doesn't seem to have dropped in my engine according to the dipstick!
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: markey mark on 17 February 2009, 18:13:34
has your oil level dropped ??? :-/
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:16:35
Not at all mate thats why its confusing the hell out of me! Could i still be getting old oil from the oil cooler failure that has been stuck somewhere and suddenly released? It s the lumpy running that bothering me, it seems to be a little bit down on power and a little bit tickier!
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: markey mark on 17 February 2009, 18:18:19
could be bud is your heater working ok ?? try giving it another flush  :(
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:21:26
Well my outside temp sensor has gone! It only blows warm air unless i put it on lo! It'll have to wait until the weekend cos i can't afford any coolant until then! Unless i should just run it on water until then? I'm thinking of starting it and taking the cap off the radiator and running hose pipe through it. Will that be ok?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: markey mark on 17 February 2009, 18:23:27
you could run on just water for a few days need to get all the old oil out ! needs a good run to get it all emulsified so it will come out ! take header tank off as well and pop it in dishwasher  :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:24:30
Don't have a dishwasher. I washed it by hand last time and got out as much as i could but it was still dirty. Do you have a spare one lying around thats clean?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: markey mark on 17 February 2009, 18:26:04
Quote
Don't have a dishwasher. I washed it by hand last time and got out as much as i could but it was still dirty. Do you have a spare one lying around thats clean?

i will have in a week or so  :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:27:20
I'll swap it for a radiator lol!  [smiley=wink.gif]

Do you have any headlight washers for a facelift as well? Had my n/s one nabbed!
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: markey mark on 17 February 2009, 18:28:29
Quote
I'll swap it for a radiator lol!  [smiley=wink.gif]

Do you have any headlight washers for a facelift as well? Had my n/s one nabbed!

ok ! did have till this morning just sold them  :(
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Andy B on 17 February 2009, 18:28:47
It's been suggested on here that a bit of bleach in the system will help to break up the oil to help flush it of oil.
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:30:06
Flush some bleach through or run it with bleach in? How much bleach?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Andy B on 17 February 2009, 18:31:54
Quote
Flush some bleach through or run it with bleach in? How much bleach?

 :-/ Not sure, a cup full perhaps. I'd run it around the system and take it spin round the block, and then drop it and go from there.  :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: markey mark on 17 February 2009, 18:31:56
run it with a bit in it ! or 1/4 litre of jizer for a couple of hours  :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:36:27
Thanks guys! Think i'll do an oil and filter change as well this weekend its been about 3000 miles since i had the o/c changed. Did timing belt and hbv at same time.
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: ffcgary1 on 17 February 2009, 18:43:34
1 LTR OF LOW FOAM WASHING LIQUID IN THE COOLING SYSTEM AND TAKE IT FOR A BLAST FOR 20 MILE AND THEN FLUSH THE SYSTEM ABOUT 5/6 TIMES. soory for the caps lock, i was,nt shouting HONEST.
 :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 18:48:47
Also thought i'd mention that since i've had the car back the economy isn't as good! ABout 28mpg average where it was 32 before! But everytime i fill it up i get more out of the tank so seems to be getting progressively better!?!

It sometimes takes a while to idle after i rev it as well?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: ffcgary1 on 17 February 2009, 18:52:41
Poor idle is normally the icv and or an air leak somewhere, make sure that when the oil cooler was replaced that the garage did not forget to put a vac hose on or split one when they refitted it. :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: vauxfan2k on 17 February 2009, 18:58:01
Mythbusters claim that out of all the myths (coin in the carb, sugar in the fuel etc etc) bleach is the only thing that will KILL an engine, so I dont recommend using it. Some fairly liquid in the expansion tank and run it for a bit, then flush out with hose at low pressure.

Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Andy B on 17 February 2009, 19:37:29
Quote
.....
 bleach is the only thing that will KILL an engine, so I dont recommend using it.  .......

HTF is that supposed to happen?  :-?  :-?  :-?

The bleach is only in for a short time to break up the oil ......
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Entwood on 17 February 2009, 19:42:50
Bleach and Aluminium do not mix at all well ... now how much aluminium is actually in the alloy the engine is made from I don't know ....  but  wouldn't risk it ..

Simple explanation .. google for a complex one if you wish ..

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem03/chem03218.htm
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 19:47:01
Right! I've done some further investigation! And i've completely flushed it. Its putting oil in the water very slowly as i'm getting dark brown fluid coming straight back into the header tank in little bubbles! Just like was happening before but much slower. So i'm quite confident the rip-off merchant b**t*** who did the job hasn't done it properly as well as charging me £600 labour when i supplied every single part myself! Do I have a leg to stand on in terms of a refund? As I have meticulously taken care of it since i had it back so there is no reason for it to fail!?

I have also found an air leak on both sides of the plastic thingy with the vx badge on it in the middle of the plenum!

I have to say I'm quite p*ssed off. And whilst you guys on here have been an absolute gem of a help, the t**t who fixed my car hasn't!

I really suspect that the oil cooler is leaking again! Does anybody have any ideas?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: feeutfo on 17 February 2009, 20:20:00
Well, you should  give him a chance rectify it in the normal process but i dont think i would want him working on the car at all now.
 
 I dont purpose you paid by card by any chance?  That price is steep with parts included.

 Diy is the norm on here mate. There is a guide and plenty of knowledge, may well be members near by to help? Have done this job myself so its doable.
Just depends what you find when your in there.

Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 17 February 2009, 20:22:58
No it was cash! I had to to barter him down from the £800 he originally wanted to charge me!
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 17 February 2009, 21:50:31
Quote
I have not long had my oil cooler done! (Got car back on 5th January!)
Since i had it back i've been flushing the coolant system out weekly and i've just checked it today when i got home from work and the coolant is black! No the chocolate colour it was when had my oil cooler done. I have noticed my engin ehas been sounding a little bit spluttery recently as well! I'm really worried as i've spend nearly £1000 on it so far!

What could this be?

Take it back to the garage you had it done
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 17 February 2009, 21:52:33
Quote
Right! I've done some further investigation! And i've completely flushed it. Its putting oil in the water very slowly as i'm getting dark brown fluid coming straight back into the header tank in little bubbles! Just like was happening before but much slower. So i'm quite confident the rip-off merchant b**t*** who did the job hasn't done it properly as well as charging me £600 labour when i supplied every single part myself! Do I have a leg to stand on in terms of a refund? As I have meticulously taken care of it since i had it back so there is no reason for it to fail!?

I have also found an air leak on both sides of the plastic thingy with the vx badge on it in the middle of the plenum!

I have to say I'm quite p*ssed off. And whilst you guys on here have been an absolute gem of a help, the t**t who fixed my car hasn't!

I really suspect that the oil cooler is leaking again! Does anybody have any ideas?

You got the parts? where did you get them from?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: MutantCav on 17 February 2009, 22:00:12
Normal oil cooler price would be £300 including the oil cooler...especially if your flushing out the system yourself anyway...

Have a pair of facelift washer jets here mate in white...
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 18 February 2009, 08:31:55
This is the oil cooler i bought here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Oil-Cooler-93176626-Omega-Signum-Cavalier_W0QQitemZ190286282129QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item190286282129&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

When it arrived it was a genuine gm one and i also picked the sealant up from vx for it. The guy who repaired it order the rubber bits for it and i paid him for that. So i don't think that i bought a naf one. The one that came off was  the same design but had a massive corrosion hole in it.
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 18 February 2009, 09:22:32
Quote
This is the oil cooler i bought here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Oil-Cooler-93176626-Omega-Signum-Cavalier_W0QQitemZ190286282129QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item190286282129&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

When it arrived it was a genuine gm one and i also picked the sealant up from vx for it. The guy who repaired it order the rubber bits for it and i paid him for that. So i don't think that i bought a naf one. The one that came off was  the same design but had a massive corrosion hole in it.

It just seems very strange that a new oil cooler has been fitted and yet it is leaking so soon... are you sure he has changed the bloody thing???
I am glad someone else doesn't think you should put bleach in your coolant.... I and several others on the forum have used Forte Coolant System Flush, and it really does the job well, costs around £10 for a bottle.
Personally wouldn't buy anything like that of ebay for this reason really had a coulpe of things go wrong then struggle to get your money back...
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Welung666 on 18 February 2009, 09:24:54
I use the holts 2 part radflush, great stuff and around a fiver from your local motor factors :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 18 February 2009, 17:52:09
The oil cooler has a one year guarantee for failures. The shop i bought it off is a shop but he also trades on ebay. NIce guy and good prices. I thinking that when the "mechanic" ordered the seals etc for it he may have ordered cheap ones! Checked again today and i have a layel of oil on top of the water in my coolant bottle. Is i possible that anything around the oil cooler can leak and maybe i needed more than an oil cooler in the first place?
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: ffcgary1 on 18 February 2009, 18:20:23
Right lets start again from the top guys,

You need to flush the system again with detergent to break down any oil in the system, see my previous post , then you MAY have to flush and keep flushing for a while yet, so dont just assume that it has failed again so soon.
It is the bane of all v6,s that when the oil cooler lets go you have to spend more time flushing than repairing the bloody thing. You can keep flushing with clear water untill the system stays clean then and only then drain and add 50% pink coolant. I repaired the oil cooler on a vectra v6 and found that the oil was still in the coolant header tank and i could just not get some out so ended up replacing the tank with a new one, improvments were seen straight away.SO FLUSH FLUSH FLUSH AND FLUSH AGAIN. Good Luck.
 :D
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Techno on 18 February 2009, 18:40:14
Hmmm bit confused here oil in water usually turns white not black!  Of course if you put enough in it will but you would have other problems like oil lack coming up and a big loss of oil I mean big. I would also have thought the engine temp would rise the pump would struggle to circulate that amount of oil and areas like the heater would stop work or be hardly warm?

Why did you change the oil cooler in the first place?

You mentioned having brown water that can be several things, poor antifreeze mix allowing the block/pump impeller to corrode, very hard water or the engine has run with no antifreeze at some point.  If the oil cooler fails it normally leaks resulting in a loss of coolant if it becomes blocked for any reason you wouldn't really notice it in normally diving conditions.

Was you loosing coolant or the having cooling problems?

An oily feel to the coolant in normal for antifreeze the jet black coolant is odd but it could be one/some of your hoses are dissolving and colouring the coolant black.  Some dealers/back street types will fit any hose, a hose is a hose right..............WRONG antifreeze pretty nasty stuff and cheap hose will be dissolved.

Remove each in turn and check the internal bore if it feel tacky and your finger turns black it dissolving and this is what I think could well be your problem.
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 18 February 2009, 18:41:13
Sounds like its not been properly flushed out when the cooler was changed (I hope he didn't charge a grand for that 3 hour job!).

So flush it out well!
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: ffcgary1 on 18 February 2009, 23:16:26
As all ready stated twice before. FLUSH IT OUT PROPERLY :-? ::)
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: djdaveyp85 on 19 February 2009, 00:27:33
Ok at the weekend its going on my drive and i'm going to run the hosepipe through it for at leasty an hour. I'm also going to get a new header tank that is clean and see if the problem still arises.

Thanks guys i'll let you know how i get on.
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 February 2009, 07:26:37
Quote
Ok at the weekend its going on my drive and i'm going to run the hosepipe through it for at leasty an hour. I'm also going to get a new header tank that is clean and see if the problem still arises.

Thanks guys i'll let you know how i get on.

It needs more than water, it needs a de-greaser to dissolve the oil
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Proz on 19 February 2009, 08:49:39
Quote
Mythbusters claim that out of all the myths (coin in the carb, sugar in the fuel etc etc) bleach is the only thing that will KILL an engine, so I dont recommend using it. Some fairly liquid in the expansion tank and run it for a bit, then flush out with hose at low pressure.


Yeah although i wouldnt use bleach to flush it through the mythbusters poured lots of bleach into the engine so it mixed with the oil , not the coolant  :y
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: PaulW on 19 February 2009, 09:05:44
Quote
Quote
Ok at the weekend its going on my drive and i'm going to run the hosepipe through it for at leasty an hour. I'm also going to get a new header tank that is clean and see if the problem still arises.

Thanks guys i'll let you know how i get on.

It needs more than water, it needs a de-greaser to dissolve the oil

You have any solutions for flushing an engine which is out of the car when doing oil cooler?? :)
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Elite Pete on 19 February 2009, 09:11:05
Quote
Quote
Quote
Ok at the weekend its going on my drive and i'm going to run the hosepipe through it for at leasty an hour. I'm also going to get a new header tank that is clean and see if the problem still arises.

Thanks guys i'll let you know how i get on.

It needs more than water, it needs a de-greaser to dissolve the oil

You have any solutions for flushing an engine which is out of the car when doing oil cooler?? :)
Lots of bungs ;D
Title: Re: Black Coolant!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 February 2009, 09:21:32
Quite simple....remove most of the bits!