Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: dbug on 18 January 2009, 22:49:10

Title: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 18 January 2009, 22:49:10
Re 1998 2.5V6 Auto saloon have been having problems with autobox recently.

Symptoms are changes become clunky and lack of drive in lower gears (revs as if “clutch slipping on manual box car” then engages ok).  Cause appears to be lack of ATF in box.  I have a bad leak and have only just identified source.

This first happened before Christmas and “topped” box up (2 lits Dex3) and gearbox behaving normally.  Noted still leaking though.

Earlier this week went to London and back – box perfectly ok on journey down but starting to play up about 15 miles from home on way back.  

Next day couldn’t get any drive in reverse or drive.  Checked ATF and “topped” up again – another 2 litres.  Box now behaving perfectly.

Obviously need to sort leakage asap.  

Top of box completely dry as is rear of box.  Sumps – no leakage and bolts tight.  Cooler pipes dry.  Leak appears to be from front of box – on removing rubber blanking plug can feel “wetness” inside bell housing and fluid appears to be escaping through a drainage slot forward? of rubber bung by the two downward facing studs and nuts.

Guess there is a seal on input shaft that has failed.

Would appreciate any info/assistance/pics on removing gearbox (do cats have to come off – looks like enough space between) as well as confirmation of diagnosis, pics etc on replacing seal.

What parts am I likely to need – part nºs would help.  Also anyone got a schematic of gearbox?

Sorry for the long post but any assistance gratefully received - thanx
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: TheBoy on 18 January 2009, 22:54:55
sounds like the seal that Marie had so much trouble with
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 18 January 2009, 22:59:46
Any info or part nº Jaime?
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 19 January 2009, 08:32:10
Anyone done this before - any help/pics appreciated.
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: TheBoy on 19 January 2009, 09:21:42
I was the seal on the input shaft.  Sure Marie, Kevin Wood or JamesV6CDX can elaborate further - I think they all helped/
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 January 2009, 10:05:11
Yes, in Marie's case it was the torque converter seal. Having said that, I'm told it's also common (?) for these boxes to leak through the bolt holes where the bell housing bolts to the oil pump.

In addition, the problems with Marie's box were not limited to the seal but because the bush into which the torque converter nose locates had worn, allowing the torque converter to run out of true, overcoming the oil seal, which wasn't in bad condition. In the end the bush had to be replaced by a specialist and a refurbished torque converter obtained.

So, I would say get hold of a spare seal and drop the gearbox out (always remove the torque converter and gearbox together to avoid damaging that bush..) but, if there's any scoring or wear evident on the nose of the torque converter and if it's not a tight fit into the gearbox with little lateral play, some additional work is likely to be required. In addition, have a look around the bolts securing the bell housing to the box just in case one of these is the source of the leak.

The seal is just like a conventional oil seal but with 3 screws through a little metal surround to hold it in place. No problem to pull the old one out and drift a new one back in.

Kevin
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 January 2009, 10:08:11
Oh, and another thing that can damage the bush - make sure the torque converter is fully home inside the bellhousing (it should scrape on the rear of the bell housing when turned) before bolting the gearbox up to the engine.

Kevin
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 19 January 2009, 10:27:40
Quote
Oh, and another thing that can damage the bush - make sure the torque converter is fully home inside the bellhousing (it should scrape on the rear of the bell housing when turned) before bolting the gearbox up to the engine.

Kevin

Thanks for info Kevin.

Any part nºs?

How easy is it to get box incl torq converter out on V6 - does it clear cats?
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: TheBoy on 19 January 2009, 12:49:55
Quote
Quote
Oh, and another thing that can damage the bush - make sure the torque converter is fully home inside the bellhousing (it should scrape on the rear of the bell housing when turned) before bolting the gearbox up to the engine.

Kevin

Thanks for info Kevin.

Any part nºs?

How easy is it to get box incl torq converter out on V6 - does it clear cats?
exhaust off job
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 19 January 2009, 16:29:35
Thanx Jaime.

Have you got any schematics of the g/box?
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: TheBoy on 19 January 2009, 18:18:59
try http://images.omegaowners.com/downloads/Autobox_Docs
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 19 January 2009, 19:11:34
Quote
try http://images.omegaowners.com/downloads/Autobox_Docs

Thanx Jaime
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 21 January 2009, 08:36:24
Had a quick nose - is it difficult to get at top bellhousing bolts?  I guess than can be reached from under the car - anyone confirm please.
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: MutantCav on 21 January 2009, 08:53:48
The cats make it impossible...maybe near impossible to get at the top bell housing bolts...cant remember if the exhaust also gets in the way of pulling the box off...
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 21 January 2009, 09:31:26
Quote
The cats make it impossible...maybe near impossible to get at the top bell housing bolts...cant remember if the exhaust also gets in the way of pulling the box off...

Advice from here says cats to come off to get box down - can top bell housing bolts be removed ok then from underneath? Or can they be reached from under bonnet?
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 January 2009, 09:35:49
With cats off they can be got out reasonably easily from underneath
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 21 January 2009, 09:41:55
Thanx Mark - guess I will have to battle with cats then!!
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 24 January 2009, 14:47:22
Can someone please confirm the part nº for the torque converter seal as some confusion with my stealer (unclear diags!)
Car 1998 2.5V6 auto Elite - part nº quoted (and on hold for me as they have them in stock!!) is 96041938.

Thanx
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 24 January 2009, 17:04:10
C'mon guys - someone must know or can check the part nº
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 25 January 2009, 16:45:13
Quote
C'mon guys - someone must know or can check the part nº

Bump - anyone with EPC out there?
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 26 January 2009, 22:39:51
Last bump!! Anyone with access to EPC? PLse confirm part nº for the torque converter seal is 96041938.  Thanks
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: Marie on 28 January 2009, 21:05:10
you will have a pm shortly with my contact number i am happy for you to call me so i can walk you through it if you like and you can then clear up any confusion.

Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: unlucky alf on 28 January 2009, 21:11:28
got my oil seal from JPAT, £8-54 i think it was inc p&p, better than the near £30 from vx ;)
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 29 January 2009, 08:43:32
Quote
got my oil seal from JPAT, £8-54 i think it was inc p&p, better than the near £30 from vx ;)

Got one from Vx yesterday -  part nº 96041938 (hope its the right bit) - which is a kit - seal, metal holding plate + 2 screws - cost (TC) under £12. Would still appreciate confirmation of part nº from someone with access to EPC.
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 29 January 2009, 08:44:04
Quote
you will have a pm shortly with my contact number i am happy for you to call me so i can walk you through it if you like and you can then clear up any confusion.


You have pm marie
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 29 January 2009, 21:52:27
Seems I may have wrong part from Vx!!

Have a plan B - good AR35 autobox FOC standing by!

If i fit it instead of my AR25 box do i need to swap torq converter & bellhousing from AR25 box? Engine 2.5 V6.
Assume existing g/box ecu would be ok.
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 30 January 2009, 20:51:58
Vx supplied wrong part.
Thanx to Marie and Andyc should have correct part next week.

Anyone know re my AR35 question - If i fit it instead of my AR25 box do i need to swap torq converter & bellhousing from AR25 box? Engine 2.5 V6.
Assume existing g/box ecu would be ok.
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: Marie on 30 January 2009, 20:56:17
as far a i can recall the answer to your question is yes. i would keep the torque converter from the ar35 box with the ar35 box.

the ecu should be ok. although it wouldnt hurt to get a tech 2 on it to upgrade the ecu.

good luck  :)
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 19 February 2009, 21:54:20
Update - autobox out last Sunday, atf in bell housing.  Changed torque convertor seal - old was loose fit, new a tight fit.  No scoring on sealing surfaces - all other metal surfaces look good.  Breather checked clear ok.  Box back in and atf topped up to level.  Result all working ok, smoothness back and so far no signs of leakage.  Result.

(What a bl**dy heavy box!!)

Plan B box turned out to be an AR25 not AR35 - keeping as spare as both Elites are 2.5 V6s and box FOC :y
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 February 2009, 22:57:00
Glad to hear it's resolved. :y

Kevin
Title: Re: Autobox problems
Post by: dbug on 19 February 2009, 23:07:59
Quote
Glad to hear it's resolved. :y

Kevin

Thanks - so far so good - will check for leaks + atf level in a couple of weeks.