Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: johndm1957 on 04 January 2009, 14:55:45

Title: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 04 January 2009, 14:55:45
2003 Elite 3.2 Auto

The Story so far..........

Orange emission lamp first popped on last April, just for a few days, then dissappeard after about six clean starts.

Since then, its been coming on more and more frequently, until recently its been on most of the time, going out for only a couple of days, then back on for well over a week at a time.

Did the brake/acc test, sure enough, error 0420 & 0430, Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold.

On advice read on this forum, I ordered a bottle of 'Cataclean' but I've not had the fuel low enough to use yet.

Also found my nearest Shell garage, and put half a tank of V Power on top of Total Excellium which I've used ever since I bought the car 2 years ago.

The lamp went out after two days, and has not returned now for nearly two weeks... [smiley=2vrolijk_08.gif]

Tempting fate by posting this....but maybe Omegas don't like Total fuel, even the good stuff?

Will keep you all posted....................
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Entwood on 04 January 2009, 15:40:14
A forum search will show you its not a matter of "if" you get this problem .. but "when" ... its a weakness of the 3.2 :(

And was I glad I knew about this, and the "pedal trick" before going on holiday to France !!!

I've had the problem twice in 11 months, others more often. Solutions include moving lambda sensors (hard work ??), removing the bulb (would hide another more serious problem), or the preferred one for me ..... reset the system.. :)

Now resetting via Vx Stealers will set you back £80 a time, I opted to purchase an ELM 327 resetter for less than £20 ... works great but does need a laptop as well... certainly saved me a load of expense and hassle when the fault occured in France. As I wanted to know more, and avoid the laptop hassle, I purchased a Maxscan, which lives in the boot. Nice simple piece of kit that does more than just reset the lights and only cost £80, so paid for itself the first time I used it .. :)

My philosphy now is simple ... 0420 or 0430 code is simply reset, anything else is investigated.

HTH
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 04 January 2009, 17:10:28
Funnily enough when I used to run mine on petrol mine frequently used to light up after a visit to the local Total garage. Lit several times within minutes of filling up there but was happy on Shell on the whole.

It's been permanently on for about 9 months now, though. Comes back within a day or two of being reset. <mental note to reset it before my MOT tomorrow> ::)

Relocation of the Lambda sensors is likely to be the only permanent cure, which I will try once I've learnt to weld properly. :-[

Kevin
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 05 January 2009, 18:53:55
Quote
Funnily enough when I used to run mine on petrol mine frequently used to light up after a visit to the local Total garage. Lit several times within minutes of filling up there but was happy on Shell on the whole.

It's been permanently on for about 9 months now, though. Comes back within a day or two of being reset. <mental note to reset it before my MOT tomorrow> ::)

Relocation of the Lambda sensors is likely to be the only permanent cure, which I will try once I've learnt to weld properly. :-[

Kevin

Interesting.....whats the differance Total Excellium and Shell V Power??

(Light still off)
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 05 January 2009, 19:00:54
Quote
Quote
Funnily enough when I used to run mine on petrol mine frequently used to light up after a visit to the local Total garage. Lit several times within minutes of filling up there but was happy on Shell on the whole.

It's been permanently on for about 9 months now, though. Comes back within a day or two of being reset. <mental note to reset it before my MOT tomorrow> ::)

Relocation of the Lambda sensors is likely to be the only permanent cure, which I will try once I've learnt to weld properly. :-[

Kevin

Interesting.....whats the differance Total Excellium and Shell V Power??

(Light still off)

I don't know, to be honest. It was just an observation on my part and there may be nothing in it. The main issue is undoubtedly that either the pre-cats degrade rather quicker than expected or that the efficiency monitoring built into the ECU is more sensitive than it should be. I don't think fuel choice is at the root of the problem.

Kevin
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 07 January 2009, 19:38:30
Finally got down to approx 3 gallons in tank, Cataclean added, then drove for 20 miles then filled tank  to full with Shell V Power.

Orange light still off.....15 days and counting.. :y
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 19 January 2009, 19:34:03
27 days.....still no EML...... :y
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: ians on 20 January 2009, 12:31:20
I tried Cataclean too.  Made no difference at all as far as I could tell. Certainly not enough to extinguish the lamp.
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: sparky on 21 January 2009, 22:40:16
my 3.2 has same prob, think i will try this catclean not much to loose?
where do i buy it from, price?
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Mike Smith on 22 January 2009, 00:26:55
theres a lot of this going on at the moment, many garages and especially supermarket garages are using bio fuel as an additive to the regular fuel, its playing havoc with everyones cars.
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 January 2009, 09:49:51
No bio fuel in my car (unless they've been putting cow f@rts in the LPG!) and I have the light constantly. It's the pre-cats getting less effective and additives are probably a waste of money, TBH. Relocation of the Lambda sensors is the only cure IMHO.

Kevin
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 22 January 2009, 18:00:27
Quote
No bio fuel in my car (unless they've been putting cow f@rts in the LPG!) and I have the light constantly. It's the pre-cats getting less effective and additives are probably a waste of money, TBH. Relocation of the Lambda sensors is the only cure IMHO.

Kevin

I must say I've never rated additives either, and the fact is my EML went out soon after using Shell V power fuel.
I stuck the cataclean through with some scepticisim, as it was recommended on here somewhere.

Still don't know what to make of my results, but the fact is my EML was coming more and more often over the last 8 months, now is been out for 30 days....

And no...the bulb is not blown... ;D


Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 22 January 2009, 18:03:12
Quote
my 3.2 has same prob, think i will try this catclean not much to loose?
where do i buy it from, price?

Around £12 on fleabay......
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: belldarr on 22 January 2009, 19:18:15
Mine is on too and has been since September time - I run on shell v power all the time - it has made no difference and it's so annoying having that orange light on the whole time.

Can someone confirm if it's the sensors before the CAT or is it the CATS themselves that need replacing??

Darren
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: markey mark on 22 January 2009, 19:35:01
Quote
Mine is on too and has been since September time - I run on shell v power all the time - it has made no difference and it's so annoying having that orange light on the whole time.

Can someone confirm if it's the sensors before the CAT or is it the CATS themselves that need replacing??

Darren

from what i understand darren nothing needs replacing just the lambdas need moving !  :y have you tried giving it a damn god thrashing  :D
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: belldarr on 22 January 2009, 20:19:46
Lol, yes it's had a good thrashing at various times over the past few months - going to get my exhuast man to take a look in the next few days and see if he can move them back behind the CATS  :y

Darren
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 22 January 2009, 23:23:03
Quote

I must say I've never rated additives either, and the fact is my EML went out soon after using Shell V power fuel.
I stuck the cataclean through with some scepticisim, as it was recommended on here somewhere.

Still don't know what to make of my results, but the fact is my EML was coming more and more often over the last 8 months, now is been out for 30 days....

And no...the bulb is not blown... ;D




It's always possible that your issue was caused by contamination of the cat rather than deterioration. Maybe some decent fuel has helped. The monitoring of the cat is obviously borderline, so small changes will affect it - until it gets bad enough to give you a constant orange light.

.. and the Lambda sensors that need relocating are the "post cat" ones which are actually behind the pre-cats (in the elbow of the downpipe) but before the main cats. Relocating them after the main cats gives the main cats an additional opportunity to clean up the exhaust gases and, being a bit more generously sized, the main cats last very well.

Kevin
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Cliffo B on 23 January 2009, 01:46:29
Have always run my motors on Shell V Power since it came out.The only other choice I consider is BP Ultimate. Both the Omega's I've had object to any of the other petrols by giving  poorer performance. They do need to adapt to these better fuels 8-) :y :y
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Cliffo B on 23 January 2009, 02:46:38
Also should really mention that my 1st Miggy was a 2000 3.0L MV6 had it for 4 yrs, and my present 1 is a 3.2 Elite and I never have had any EML problems. I also believe in useing Mobil 1 oil,which I change well within the change periods, Could be this backs up Kevin when he says its important to keep your engine exhaust clean.I'm about to have a new S/S exhaust fitted next Wed because VX cant provide an exhaust up to OE quietness spec :'( Wonder if sods law will prevail and I'll be paperclipping like mad :-/ :-/Allthough I do feel confident in the guy's at Lifetime Exhausts. :y :y
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 23 January 2009, 16:01:45
Quote
Also should really mention that my 1st Miggy was a 2000 3.0L MV6 had it for 4 yrs, and my present 1 is a 3.2 Elite and I never have had any EML problems. I also believe in useing Mobil 1 oil,which I change well within the change periods, Could be this backs up Kevin when he says its important to keep your engine exhaust clean.I'm about to have a new S/S exhaust fitted next Wed because VX cant provide an exhaust up to OE quietness spec :'( Wonder if sods law will prevail and I'll be paperclipping like mad :-/ :-/Allthough I do feel confident in the guy's at Lifetime Exhausts. :y :y

If you're having a custom exhaust fitted I'd get the Lambdas relocated while you're at it. There are two types of 3.2s - those that have the orange light on, and those that soon will. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Tawfield on 24 January 2009, 14:39:06
Think most probs are the lambdas,Gone now but before it went My 2.0ltr manuel Est was returning 27 local and 31mpg on a run,It had 4 fast and long no stopping for a break of over a 100mls,first run round trip 250mls  33mpg second round trip 280 mls gave a return of 36mpg the best i ever had anyway second trip was to look at the Omega Ive got now   short runs it appears the Lambdas get coated and need a good blast to clean up and give a proper reading. :y
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 29 January 2009, 19:28:33
[/quote]


If you're having a custom exhaust fitted I'd get the Lambdas relocated while you're at it. There are two types of 3.2s - those that have the orange light on, and those that soon will. ;)

Kevin
[/quote]

It was too good to be true..............EML came back on yesterday.. :'(

Is there no way to bypass/fool/disconnect the sensors?
My dash now looks silly with a square of black electrical tape stuck on it.. ;D
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Entwood on 29 January 2009, 19:53:31
You could always invest in a code restter .. the ELM327 is about £30 but needs a laptop .. the Maxscan is about £80 but is a stand alone piece of kit .. mine now lives in the boot, but since I bought it the lights only come on the once !!!  way back in October !!

Still with Vx charging £70+ to put the light out its already paid for itself really  :)
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: SP_3.2 on 29 January 2009, 22:18:32
Just had a new stainless steel cat back done and reclocated the o2 sensors behind the main cats and light not back on for the past 3-4 days. Most times when i have reset it with my Maxiscan it,s off for a day max.

Will take some pics and post them of the new location and the new system on Friday  :y
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 30 January 2009, 15:45:11
Quote
You could always invest in a code restter .. the ELM327 is about £30 but needs a laptop .. the Maxscan is about £80 but is a stand alone piece of kit .. mine now lives in the boot, but since I bought it the lights only come on the once !!!  way back in October !!

Still with Vx charging £70+ to put the light out its already paid for itself really  :)

So I need a ELM327, Compatability:  OBD2, EOBD, CAN. ELM327 chip (2008 Version 2.0) with a 16 pin plug, and my laptop............is this correct?

Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Entwood on 30 January 2009, 18:16:57
Yup 3.2 facelift is ODBDII compliant ... and you have choices ...

ELM327 USB

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELM327-USB-CAN-Code-Reader-E-OBD-2-Scanner-Diagnostic_W0QQitemZ200303166084QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment?hash=item200303166084&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318


Maxscan GS500

http://www.ecufix.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=206

Be VERY wary of getting the maxcsan off e-bay.. I did and had to send it back it was a chinese rip-off without the correct cables or handbook !!! so I went to the guys listed above .. I see tehy are showing sold out ATM .. might be worth a phone call

There are also other OBDII readers ... just stick OBDII reader into google and you'll get a lot of hits !! I can't say owt about any except the two I've tried .. and the only reason I haven't sold the ELM327 is at £30 I can afford to keep it "just in case" the GS500 ever goes wrong .. :)
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Freypal on 30 January 2009, 21:12:52
Interestingly, my orange light has now gone off. I am however getting one fault code for bank 1. When i get 2 fault codes ( bank 1 and 2 ) the orange light comes on. I assume this is so anyway.

Theory for mine is... the pre-cat on bank 1 is on its last legs and is flagging up a fault all the time. The pre-cat on bank 2 is just starting to give out and flagged a fault after an hour of heavy driving followed by being sat in traffic and subsequntly heating up. This also occured after filling up with poor quality fuel in the middle of no where at a local garage.

Il try filling with v-power or another top brand fuel and see if it re-occurs. Seems to me like the cats are struggling when theyve had a lot of work to do, followed by being heated up.
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: Entwood on 31 January 2009, 01:26:07
0420 & 0430 codes on a 3.2 are common .. and it does NOT mean the cats are worn out ... it is just one of those things .. the sensor is between the pre-cats and main cat .. and just tells lies  :) :)  Seriously .. it usually happens with poor fuel/short trips IMHO .. so a decent Italian tune-up can sometimes clean the system and the light goes out ...  or rest as said with cheapo tech11.

When I first got the 3.2 after having the 2.5 .. the guys here told me its not IF the codes come up .. its WHEN .... and so far they have been 100% correct :)
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: mark.adams on 31 January 2009, 09:36:59
Quote
Yup 3.2 facelift is ODBDII compliant ... and you have choices ...

ELM327 USB

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELM327-USB-CAN-Code-Reader-E-OBD-2-Scanner-Diagnostic_W0QQitemZ200303166084QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment?hash=item200303166084&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Is this applicable to the 2.2 facelift as well? I get the emissions light very occasionally and would love to know whats causing it...
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe...............??
Post by: johndm1957 on 31 January 2009, 10:49:37
Quote
Yup 3.2 facelift is ODBDII compliant ... and you have choices ...

ELM327 USB

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ELM327-USB-CAN-Code-Reader-E-OBD-2-Scanner-Diagnostic_W0QQitemZ200303166084QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Diagnostic_Tools_Equipment?hash=item200303166084&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318


Maxscan GS500

http://www.ecufix.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=206

Be VERY wary of getting the maxcsan off e-bay.. I did and had to send it back it was a chinese rip-off without the correct cables or handbook !!! so I went to the guys listed above .. I see tehy are showing sold out ATM .. might be worth a phone call

There are also other OBDII readers ... just stick OBDII reader into google and you'll get a lot of hits !! I can't say owt about any except the two I've tried .. and the only reason I haven't sold the ELM327 is at £30 I can afford to keep it "just in case" the GS500 ever goes wrong .. :)

Thats exactly what Im looking at......cheers.. :y

Now, where do I find the kit to re-programme the ECU to adjust the sensor limits, and re-map to get 300bhp... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe..............
Post by: MartinD on 19 February 2009, 23:44:10
I used Cataclean and was not impressed my engine became sluggish and we did not notice any difference in fuel consumption – I called them and they did not wont to know my concerns seems like a scam  :'(
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe..............
Post by: MartinD on 20 February 2009, 00:39:51
Hunted fuel-pill peddlers made same claim in NZ 16 years ago

Two men who attracted more than $80 million from investors marketing a "fuel saving petrol pill" in Australia was referred to the New Zealand Commerce Commission for claims he made with a similar product 16 years ago.
Tim Johnston, 51, chairman of the company Firepower and Ross Baigent from Cataclean Liverpool UK, which bought Australia's leading basketball team the Sydney Kings, is being sought by authorities.
It is suspected Tim is living an up market life in the UK with his British partner.
Details of Johnston's and Bagient’s business dealings have been hitting headlines in Australia - most recently because the Kings' wages were paid late, then not paid at all, before the team's license was revoked on June 12.
Current news reports across the Tasman bear the hallmarks of 1992 reports in New Zealand, with Australian media revealing allegations of dodgy dealings and accusations that the fuel-saving benefits of Firepower's pill are unproven.
A four-month investigation by the National Business Review, reported in August 1992, said New Zealanders were spending up to $100,000 a month on a petrol pill claiming to reduce fuel costs by 17 per cent.
            
                  [ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232][ch8232]
When put into vehicles, the pills were supposed to cut emissions, save on fuel costs and give cars more power.
But the paper could not find any evidence the pills, sold through a multi-level marketing campaign, worked.
"Investigations by the NBR have found the company's marketing plan is fraught with false and misleading statements which the Commerce Commission has been investigating for several months," it reported.
The NBR said its inquiries into companies Johnston and Baigent was dealing with, tests he said were run on the product and organizations he claimed recommended the pills revealed questionable conduct.
The NZ Automobile Association ran tests on the products and made similar findings in relation to what it termed Johnston's and Baigent’s "dubious motoring products" in September 1992.
The Sydney Morning Herald reported that Firepower sold more than $80 million of shares to Australian and overseas investors on the promise of a stunning share market listing in London.
Investors included high-profile league players, diplomats, doctors, accountants, media figures and mum-and-dad speculators. Some expected the shares they bought for between A5c and A$1.33 would be worth up to A$7 when the company listed on the Alternative Investment Market.
But Johnston and Baigent left nothing but a trail of defunct business entities, empty offices and folded websites.
The Australian Tax Office and the Australian Securities and Investment Commission are among those seeking him. The Independent reported that the Kings' liquidator was seeking a warrant for their arrests.
 8-)
Title: Re: Orange Emission Light Cure Maybe..............
Post by: omegaowner1 on 21 February 2009, 09:04:14
Did some research on the web after reading your post on CataClean the company in Liverpool System Products or Cataclean Global Ltd who produce this product  and came across this so BEWARE its a SCAM the British advertising company tested the product  
http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_41571.htm
The ASA considered that the claims of Cataclean were misleading.

3. Upheld
The expert considered that using a vehicle with a known and apparently unquantified problem was bad practice. The results showed that Cataclean had no beneficial effect on emissions.  The expert noted the evidence did not repeat the decreases in emissions that were demonstrated in the infomercial.  We considered that the claims were misleading.

5. Upheld
The expert advised that catalyst efficiency was established by analysing the exhaust gases entering and exiting the catalyst.  He noted the submitted tests did not use that method.  The expert advised that the product was extremely unlikely to survive the combustion process and reach the exhaust catalyst.  We considered that the claim was misleading.


Action
We concluded that the infomercial breached rules 5.1 (Misleading advertising), 5.2.1 (Evidence), 5.4.4 (Testimonials) and 5.2.6 (Environmental claims) of the CAP (Broadcast) TV Advertising Standards Code and it must not be advertised again without adequate substantiation for each claim it made.

Also Ross Baigent the director of the companies did a similar Scam in Australia with Tim Johnston.  >:(