Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tony1980 on 15 March 2009, 08:48:44

Title: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 15 March 2009, 08:48:44
i recently bought a 2001 omega 2.2 turbo diesel on 146,ooo miles and when i first test drove it i noticed the engine management light was on and when i drove off there was no power it would take ages just to rev upto 2500 revs , even with foot to the floor it wont rev over 2500 , i did a general check on google and this place game me a few sugestions ie: egr valve & airflow metre , now the egr valve i removed and was really clogged with black crap so i cleaned this off completly and re-fitted but this made no differnce , now the airflow metre is working fine as the engine is worse when un-plugged and when its plugged back in the actuator bar moves so i guess its working as normal
i have checked both major boost pipes and there fine
i took the air filter out and gave a clean just to check for difference
i took diesel filter out and cleaned just to check for a difference
the management light is currently off and wont come on unless i unplug the airflow metre
im just stuck now as what to do
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: dieseldean on 15 March 2009, 14:20:26
if light is out but power still low the first place i'd look is for splits or leaks in intercooler and pipes
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 15 March 2009, 17:33:22
yea already checked both pipes fully and there fine , when you start the car theres no smoke what so ever , and if you hold the revs @ 2000 for about 7 seconds theres a sudden change in tone and the management light comes on and then you let the revs die down and the light gos out
i have had the turbo looked at and its fine
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: RichardH on 15 March 2009, 17:41:35
Next step needs to be getting the code read.  It will give a better indication of the problem.  Do you have a cheap code reader you could use or else know someone that has one?
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 15 March 2009, 17:44:37
hopefully i can get hold of my auto electrition tomorrow as he wasnt answering his phone thurs / fri last week so hopefully he`ll answer tomorrow
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 15 March 2009, 20:13:54
Boost pressure sensor being blocked is the most common reason for reduced power on those 2.2DTi engines. Though worth putting on a code reader.
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 15 March 2009, 21:15:06
where is the boost pressure sensor located please
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 16 March 2009, 06:38:43
anyone know where the boost pressure switch is located on this please ?
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 16 March 2009, 19:11:04
is the boost control sensor the motor beneith the turbo with 2 small breather pipes going to it and a switch ..

also regarding the EGR valve does anyone know how much pressure the valve should have whilst its being used as when i removed mine and cleaned it , when i push it in and out its not hard to push in but requires a little force but theres plenty of suction
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: dpanic88 on 17 March 2009, 10:58:59
Quote
Boost pressure sensor being blocked is the most common reason for reduced power on those 2.2DTi engines. Though worth putting on a code reader.

Hi,

I'm also looking for this, cannot find it in the parts guide - so unsure on location. Hope someone will let us know :question
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 15:55:38
right just had th etech guy come out with 3 diagnostic machines inc the tech2 and none would read the ecu but once i showed him the problem he says the turbo is over boosting and causing the car to run in safe mode , is this possible as he wasnt 100% sure that was the problem but swears it is def over boosting as when you hold it at 2000 revs the boost pipe is over pressured and he said it shouldnt be like that untill about 5-6000 revs and mazimum boost

any ideas please welcome ?
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2009, 20:52:29
I would say it sound be running approx atmospheric + 1b from around 2 - 2.5k rpm all way to redline.
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 20:55:13
all i know is that when you start reving it up you can see the boost pipe expanding rapidly then once you hit 2000 revs the pipe is at maximum expandshire and the theres a sudden dump in pressure and the management light comes on
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: Omegatoy on 17 March 2009, 20:56:19
sticky wastegate???
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 20:58:06
i wouldnt of thought so as thats been looked at and seems to be working fine
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2009, 21:00:44
and if he got a P0105, that is usually the boost pressure sensor, though could also be the boost control solenoid (wastegate)
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: Omegatoy on 17 March 2009, 21:00:49
so maybe the boost pressure sensor isnt seeing the boost and doesent throw the xtra fuel in as its supposed to????
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2009, 21:01:51
Quote
so maybe the boost pressure sensor isnt seeing the boost and doesent throw the xtra fuel in as its supposed to????
If the boost pressure isn't what the ecu expects, it will drop into limp anyway...
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 21:04:34
where is the sensor located , is it the one beneith the airbox with the wastegate pipe going to it and another pipe and then a switch , as i removed that and took the top off to reveil a hole and i blew down it and it was really hard to pass air through it was spluttering as if it was blocked or is it meant to be like that
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: Omegatoy on 17 March 2009, 21:13:02
dont know where its is on the 4 pot but should be a small bore pipe leading from the boost hose to a small electrical switch somewhere, if the motor has had extended oil changes this will be one of the first things to block up, also a worn turbo wil allow a small amount of oil up the boost pipe and again its the boost sensor that gets most of it!! and blocks again!! :'(
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2009, 21:18:05
from memory, I think its bolted to top of inlet part of head on these lumps
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 21:21:39
(http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo329/ford4life1980/omega_2200_dti_2002_blue7.jpg)
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 21:22:26
thats a simular picture of the exact engine with airbox missing
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2009, 21:24:09
other side under plastics (from memory)
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 21:26:35
ok all i remember uner the cover is a load of wires and the EGR valve but ill take a few pics in morning and send em through so you can have a look , its really annoying as the tech2 wouldnt even read the ecu as that would of solved it
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 21:35:03
just done another search on google and people are saying the boost control sensor /valve is the one which the thin pipe off the actuator gos to which is the one beneith the turbo / airbox ?
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2009, 21:37:38
Quote
ok all i remember uner the cover is a load of wires and the EGR valve but ill take a few pics in morning and send em through so you can have a look , its really annoying as the tech2 wouldnt even read the ecu as that would of solved it
Was it a real tech2?
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 21:39:53
yes mate genuine vauxhall one , the the local technitions who ALL the local garages and ourselfs use , he first bought 2 others then came back with the tech2 but none would read it , i had another member send me a pm saying he has had the same problem with his 2.2 td and the tech2 wouldnt read his neither
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 17 March 2009, 21:48:46
Quote
yes mate genuine vauxhall one , the the local technitions who ALL the local garages and ourselfs use , he first bought 2 others then came back with the tech2 but none would read it , i had another member send me a pm saying he has had the same problem with his 2.2 td and the tech2 wouldnt read his neither
Well as long as the software on the tech2 as not really old, it should read it.  Did he check for continuity between the diag socket and the engine ecu?
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 17 March 2009, 21:49:55
i have no idea bud
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 18 March 2009, 22:18:12
another long inspection earler and i double checked all breathers and there all fine with no blockages , theres around 5 sensors running the air and turbo system along the breathers and all were tested earler and were all working fine
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 March 2009, 09:26:32
The only real issue I ahev seen with these engines is gumed up inlets.

Thye seem to get lots of gloop in them which affects the pressure sensors and the swirl pot flaps etc.

So, it is worth removing the 2 inlet sections and getting them chemicaly cleaned.
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 19 March 2009, 18:35:19
yea the inlet which the EGR valve go`s into is really clogged up with crap and have thought about taking it off a few times but now that you have mentioned it im going to ring vauxhall in the morning and see if i can get the gasket ( if there is one ) then take it off and clean it out
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 26 March 2009, 19:21:09
took the car to my local garage and the had a look and found no common faults under the bonnet so i aske dhim to mot the car and it passed with just the hand brake cable needing changing but the advisory was they couldnt rev the car over 4000 revs , the guy there says he would put money on the crank sensor causing the problem , does anyone else think this would cause the problem as im am no where near solving this problem
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: stevief on 27 March 2009, 12:21:39
I had problems with intermittent loss of power and EML comming on for short periods and when Tech 2'd it was indicating a fault at the fuel pump. However the tech who did the test suggested the crank senso and water temp sensor be changed first as they both played a part in the control of the fueling via the ecu. Changed the ster sensor first with no change noted over a few days and then changed the crank sensor and the problem has never re-appeared.

If you do decide to change the crank sensor I found the best way to do it was to disconnectthe plug at the back of the engine (near side), loosen off the cable clips and then using a long soket extension removed the crank sensor through the gap between the chassis and wing behind the front passenger wheel. It is a bit akward but better than going in from the top.

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1193835989/12#12

Steve
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 27 March 2009, 18:47:40
ok cool ill check sensor tomorrow i know where the plug is as we just unplugged it and the engine ran bad and started to smoke and plugged it back in and it went back to normal so ill remove it tomorrow as have a look
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 29 March 2009, 17:25:55
Right found a really easy way to remove the crank sensor , first undo 4 8mm nuts securing the sump guard on the passenger side and that side will then drop down , if you shine a torch into the side of the gearbox your see the crank sensor , now using a 2ft extension and a small socket you can easily remove it ..
Now i did this , this morning and removed it to see if i could clean it or see any damage . now i cleaned it up and theres no sign of damage but as i dont have a new one to look at i dont know if its ok , on the bottom theres a small round metal part which i take it sends the sginal but after looking i dont know if this little metal section should stick out the plastic sensor a little as mine is nearly flush and also i noticed 3 tiny grooves in it which go onto the plastic too , now without looking at a new one im not sure wether there supposed to be there
Does anyone know if the bottom of the sensor which sits inside the box should be smooth or wether it has marks
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: TheBoy on 29 March 2009, 19:57:39
Quote
Right found a really easy way to remove the crank sensor , first undo 4 8mm nuts securing the sump guard on the passenger side and that side will then drop down , if you shine a torch into the side of the gearbox your see the crank sensor , now using a 2ft extension and a small socket you can easily remove it ..
Now i did this , this morning and removed it to see if i could clean it or see any damage . now i cleaned it up and theres no sign of damage but as i dont have a new one to look at i dont know if its ok , on the bottom theres a small round metal part which i take it sends the sginal but after looking i dont know if this little metal section should stick out the plastic sensor a little as mine is nearly flush and also i noticed 3 tiny grooves in it which go onto the plastic too , now without looking at a new one im not sure wether there supposed to be there
Does anyone know if the bottom of the sensor which sits inside the box should be smooth or wether it has marks
its a hall sensor, so no amount of cleaning (unless covered in metal particles) will make a difference to it.
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 29 March 2009, 20:44:50
do you know if there is supposed to be 3 grooves in it
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 20:58:30
Quote
do you know if there is supposed to be 3 grooves in it

Cant recall to be honest!

Most have been flat from memory
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 29 March 2009, 21:14:59
well mine has 3 curved grooves in , very faint but just able to feel them with my finger nail , need to see if anyone has a new one to hand to look at
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: gordon w on 02 April 2009, 18:42:30
hi tony, just joined the site to try and cure your exact problem, i just bought a 2.2dti 02 on tuesday and the girlfriend drove it home from essex(230ml). it seemed heavy and sluggish on test drive but because i have not drove one b4 seemed ok. gave it a dam good clean and took the air filter out last night as it was a bit dirty, left it out and made the small drive to town today to tax it and get the new filter.
as soon as i drove from home the car wouldnt pull and felt wheezy, eng managment light going on/off as i rev. (shit). hoped it was over compensating for no filter so got home and put the filter in,,,, same (oh shit). spent 2hrs looking around the airbox incase i had disturbed a pipe but no. went through all your posts then went out again to lift the air box out to look again.(bare with it).
undone the 1st rubber hose between the airbox and turbo....a 5" leaf dropped out which had been flat over the inlet gauze(blocking it by abt 70%)................hose back on in 5 mins ,, drove the car and it flew!.
hoping you have not removed this hose yet and you have the same prob. sorry to go on but it was a "wtf" moment.
good luck
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 02 April 2009, 18:44:13
cool ill go and look now
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 02 April 2009, 18:46:26
just thought the pipe in-between the turbo and airbox is the one with the airflow metre ( mass air sensor ) is it m8 , as this was stripped last week along with the complete airbox to be cleaned and check all the other pipes beneith it
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 18:47:17
Quote
hi tony, just joined the site to try and cure your exact problem, i just bought a 2.2dti 02 on tuesday and the girlfriend drove it home from essex(230ml). it seemed heavy and sluggish on test drive but because i have not drove one b4 seemed ok. gave it a dam good clean and took the air filter out last night as it was a bit dirty, left it out and made the small drive to town today to tax it and get the new filter.
as soon as i drove from home the car wouldnt pull and felt wheezy, eng managment light going on/off as i rev. (shit). hoped it was over compensating for no filter so got home and put the filter in,,,, same (oh shit). spent 2hrs looking around the airbox incase i had disturbed a pipe but no. went through all your posts then went out again to lift the air box out to look again.(bare with it).
undone the 1st rubber hose between the airbox and turbo....a 5" leaf dropped out which had been flat over the inlet gauze(blocking it by abt 70%)................hose back on in 5 mins ,, drove the car and it flew!.
hoping you have not removed this hose yet and you have the same prob. sorry to go on but it was a "wtf" moment.
good luck

Lol, hence why cars have air filters fitted  :y

Thye also stop grit and shite from scoring the bores
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: tony1980 on 02 April 2009, 18:50:19
when i checked the airfilter last week it was dirty and black but not really bad i just gave it a quick whack to clean the dust and dropped it back in , do you think the filter could play a part in my problem ???
Title: Re: big power problem on my 2.2 td
Post by: gordon w on 03 April 2009, 12:55:21
just cost me 9.50 for a new filter, not bad to eliminate it. i think diesels are more sensitive to dirty filters than petrols.
honest, my car felt like there was a beaver lodged in the intake. i think the leaf was in the bottom of the pan and quick drive with no filter sucked it to the gauze.
i find if a filter looks dirty, it will reduce airflow.
symptoms were so like yours i feel your problem lies with air flow/intake issue.
so annoying when you cant "see" the problem,
i once had an sri cav off the road for 2 weeks due eventually to a distributor rotor arm(which had a resistor on it). cost £3 .
again good luck.