Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: colin28 on 18 March 2009, 14:59:01
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5 weeks ago my gearbox went and I had replaced, since I got the car back I have had 5 weeks of hell. keeps coming up random multiple misfire 1-3-5 bank, I have replaced the coil 4 times now and still the same fault codes, I have been at my mates garage today AGAIN where the fault code have been deleted again.. but now I have
p0130 Circuit Malfunction
p0170 fuel trim malfunction bank 1 x2
p0300 random multiple misfire
p0301 bank 1
p0303 bank 3
p0305 bank 5
Please help as my car is doing my head in now......
Even the garage is running out of ideas.
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drive Omega 2002, 2.6 v6
NOT 2.5
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not surprise the garage has run out of ideas: likely they are the cause of the problem!
I'd suspect the wiring loom going to the coil packs. i'm not familiar with the 2.6 but that's where i'd start
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Jonathan, you may be closer to the truth then you imagine!
The fault codes you are getting do NOT sudgest a coil pack failure. Under a failure of the coil pack you normaly see 1 of the 3 coils fail, not all 3 at once, resulting in a miss fire against a single cylinder.......unless of course you are VERY unlucky!
So, its clear we are dealing with the numebr 1 bank thanks to the info of P0301, p0303, p0305.
We also have some lambda faults.
P0130 - 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0170 - Fuel trim malfunction bank 1
Now, given that each front pipe has two lambdas, one doing mixture control and the other dealing with cat efficiency.....start by checking the daft sods have not connected the 2 O2 snsors up wrong on the bank 1 front pipe!
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Jonathan, you may be closer to the truth then you imagine!
The fault codes you are getting do NOT sudgest a coil pack failure. Under a failure of the coil pack you normaly see 1 of the 3 coils fail, not all 3 at once, resulting in a miss fire against a single cylinder.......unless of course you are VERY unlucky!
So, its clear we are dealing with the numebr 1 bank thanks to the info of P0301, p0303, p0305.
We also have some lambda faults.
P0130 - 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0170 - Fuel trim malfunction bank 1
Now, given that each front pipe has two lambdas, one doing mixture control and the other dealing with cat efficiency.....start by checking the daft sods have not connected the 2 O2 snsors up wrong on the bank 1 front pipe!
only 'cos i remeber someone else having a similar problem about a year or so ago.......
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Jonathan, you may be closer to the truth then you imagine!
The fault codes you are getting do NOT sudgest a coil pack failure. Under a failure of the coil pack you normaly see 1 of the 3 coils fail, not all 3 at once, resulting in a miss fire against a single cylinder.......unless of course you are VERY unlucky!
So, its clear we are dealing with the numebr 1 bank thanks to the info of P0301, p0303, p0305.
We also have some lambda faults.
P0130 - 02 sensor circuit bank 1 sensor 1
P0170 - Fuel trim malfunction bank 1
Now, given that each front pipe has two lambdas, one doing mixture control and the other dealing with cat efficiency.....start by checking the daft sods have not connected the 2 O2 snsors up wrong on the bank 1 front pipe!
Where do I locate these? I am Car thick. Sorry
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Photo of the front pipe (removed from the car) showing the 2 sensors
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/IMG_0250.jpg)
Here is a pic of where the sensors connect to on the drivers side of the geabox.
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/IMG_0251.jpg)
So, find the connectors and swap them over!
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Thanks for the information. Unfortunately it made no difference! any other ideas?
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What codes do you have now?
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Havent taken back to garage to check but can only guess they are the same as before!
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You can read them yourself....have a look in the guides areas
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http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687 :y
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Got 0300
0301
0303
0305
Still says coil even though its been changed loads
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Yes but. it no longer says fuel trim!
Ok.
So, how is it running, miss firing, under what conditions?
Is the ECU light on?
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And no it does NOT say coil, i says miss fire.....
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Light is still on and sounds and runs like a piece of crap! when u put your foot down it struggles to get to 20mph. 0-30mph in 40 seconds kinda speed.
been like this for 5 weeks now!
Thanks 4 your ideas, anymore?
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has the wiring been checked to the coil pack on drivers side? Is it plugged in correctly, is the plug broken any exposed or damaged wires at any point along its length? Fairly sure you should get 12volts to the plug.
Look for anything that would cause that bank not to fire, not just spark. The code is missfire not miss spark. Hth
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you want ideas:
It seems like your original problem was actually a combination of two problems. We've already fixed half of them by earlier advice re the multiplugs. you now have a problem that is focussed on one bank of cylinders. This is detective work stuff. focus on what will cause a full bank to have an ignition problem and what else has happened recently.
The evidence is this: if it were a coil pack failure, it would be totally random - not all three on one bank all at the same time. conclusion is that it must be a problem related to something that drives that bank of coil packs
Now what has happened recently? lots of work and evidence that whoever has done the work has already managed to mess up some electronics
As the the above post suggests focus attention on the wiring for the coil packs on the suspect bank, trace and check thoroughly
also, a seperate matter, i hope you are getting money back from the garage that sent your car out in that state.
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Thanks 4 the Help, will go and check all the leads.
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I have gone through the wiring and everything is ok on that part. I have looked through the manual and the light that flashes is Catalytic converter fault light (engine with propeller ontop lol)
Would that have an impact on the 0300 0301 0303 0305 bank?
Still not working.
Have it booked in to Auto Electronic place on Monday but that is going to cost a bomb so need to get sorted b4 then.
Please help
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Where are you?
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Southend, Essex
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Bugger, to far from here.
So, just re-cap.
EXACTLY what work was done on the car before this fault occured?
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Started 5-6 weeks ago when the Gearbox failed. Had replaced by garage when driving away from the garage the car hardely moved engine light flashing car not driving, I took back to the garage the next day "just getting there" diagnostic machine said multiple misfire 1-3-5 bank, so replaced a few days later, still same thing - car hardely driving, when you put your foot down the engine light comes on and total loss of power, takes 10-15 seconds to reach 20-30mph.
said same code so replaced the coil again, same thing, replaced again, the coil has no been replaced 4 times so it cannot be the coil.
the cables leading to the coil are all in tacked and ok. now the fault codes are
0130
0300
0301
0303
0305
I havent had my car working for 5-6 weeks since gearbox went.
when the fault codes get deleted the car drives well for 10mins then the light comes back on and engine back to square one. total misfire and loss of power.
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So....auto or manual?
Did the fault occur before or after the box change?
Did the car run better for a short period when the new coil packs were fitted?
Sorry, trying to get a clear picture of the fault, when it occured, and the application its in.
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Auto 2.6 v6
The car was in perfect running condition before the gearbox change.
when the coil gets fitted and the fault codes deleted the car runs perfect for 5-10 mins then the light comes back on and the car has total loss of power. back to square one again.
after codes get deleted and running ok for 5 mins its seems to be when pulling away the fault appears.
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Ok....so the codes will not have been cleared since the O2 sensor connectors were switched?
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No. Not yet!
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something playing with timing for this bank, more specific messing with the ecu.. or ecu itself :-/
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can I clear the codes or do I need to take to the garage to get the diagnostic machine to do it? If I can do it. How?
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Ok, so did the garage try clearing the codes and running it without changing the coil pack at any point?
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Yeah loads of times.
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Ok.
Can you disconnect the battery for an hour in an attempt to re-set the ecu (its a bit of a long shot!)
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How do you reset the ecu?
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By removing power, we may be able to get it into state where it will move away from a default map.
As an addition, can you follow the cable off the rear of the 1-3-5 coil pack with your hand (slide your hand along it as best you can) and ensure its not pulled tight or trapped by say.....the gearbox bellhousing.
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I did follow the Coil lead thismorning checking it. it was all ok and in a good state.
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Ok, can you turn the engine to TDC (marked on the crank pulley and there is an alignment mark on the cam belt cover.
Then remove the top bolts from the cam belt cover and ease it back to check the cam timing?
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Is it worth checking plugs?
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it could be the main ecu unit its self thats what normally happens when more than one cylinder missfires
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Deleted codes. now just the usual ones again
0130
0300
0301
0303
0305
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i thought your issues sounded familiar...
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1235513459/40#40
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ps i guess the lambda wont like the neat fuel its getting.
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I have changed the sensors and also changed a new camshaft sensor, yet STILL am getting fault codes
0300
0301
0303
0305
Multi cylinder malfunction.
How can this STILL be?
Can anyone suggest any other ideas?
I was told change ECU unit? will that help?
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Another thing worth checking, are the plug wells full of oil?
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Yes! When I first took out the Coil bank 2 plugs was under oil swimming. I cleaned them all up and put them back.
What can that cause?
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Yes! When I first took out the Coil bank 2 plugs was under oil swimming. I cleaned them all up and put them back.
What can that cause?
That is due to the infamous cam cover gasket(s) leaking and the oil finding it's way into the plug wells, which in turn can cause the plugs and leads to overheat. :'(
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plug 2 is pass side bank so i guess you mean plug 3(the middle one) of the drivers side? Sorry just making sure.
I wouldnt think oil in the middle plug well would cause the whole driver bank to fail, but i guess the only way is to try/borrow i known good one first before changing the ecu...?
What did the coil pack look like when you removed it? Any cracks/broken bits of plastic with rusty metal showing through? Sorry if this is a repeat question.
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No its no problem I thankyou for your help!
When I removed the 1st coil pack bank 1-3 was swimming in oil. after cleaning the pack and changing to another replacement there has ALWAYS been total cylinder misfire 0300 0301 0303 0305 every since the gearbox was changed.
I have changed the coils 4 times now.
I have checked and rechecked the leads. I have changed coil 4 times, swapped o2 leads, replaced camshaft sensor and spent 6-7 weeks now without a car.
Yet after all this and changing the camshaft sensor a few days ago after driving 1/2 mile the car starts misfiring again.
usual codes
0300 0301 0303 0305
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I got a bad misfire of that type - knackered plugs
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Well if it was me i think i mite have to admit its time to try another ecu, thing is there are far more experienced guys on here than me and they rarely see failed ecu's.
in conjunction with the other thread and the fact you've tried everything else....i would be onto the breakers i think.
try mutant cav and markey mark, breakers on here, for a start off.
where are you by the way?
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Going to replace the plugs today and see if that will make any difference. of not then another Ecu is the only final option, I cannot afford to take to any garages because they charge stupid amounts of money I don't have.
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.......and taking it to a garage is no guarantee they have any clue as to what's wrong.
I'm guessing a bit here because I don't have any experience of the newer coil pack system but I'm thinking like this:
1. are the coil packs actually firing at all? Is it possible to do the old trick of inserting a spark plug, turning over and looking for a spark (as you would with a distributor/HT lead set up)
2. what does it take for a coil pack to fire? Again a guess is, +12v, 0v ('earth') plus a signal from the ECU to fire. If you could obtain a wiring diagram, I would then check that the coil packs are getting the basic power feed with a multimeter.
If you know that the coil packs are getting the correct power feed and they are known good (even by swapping left and right bank THEN start to condem the ECU.
Looking at this from a distance I struggle to believe that it is an ECU failure coincident with the gearbox re-fit.
where 'bouts are you, if you're not too far aware I'm happy to lend a fresh pair of eyes
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Changing the plugs has now seemed to sort out the misfire.
But there is still fault code 0130
P0130 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0130 O2 Sensor Circuit Slow Response (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0130 O2 Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
P0130 O2 sensor circuit malfunction (Bank 1 Sensor 1)
What can cause this and what can I do to solve it? Nearly there.
Thanks to everyone for there help so far. Just 1 more fault left
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broken wire? that could have happened with the box change.
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Check the wiring from the sensor nearest to the manifold end for fraying etc.
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or try swapping the plugs on the side of the gearbox again + reset codes. as per Mark's early posts
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When I was doing my cam covers, checked out the how to guide and other posts. Several others on here mentioned that they had a spare pipe that seemed to originate from low down in the bulkhead, and wanted to know where it went to.
Replys were to te effect:- if got manual don't worry about it.
If Auto it's something to do with Auto box. If you've had a new auto box fitted, did the garage forget to reconnect this pipe.
I'm totally guessing here and probably barking mad
What do you others think, is it viable?
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or try swapping the plugs on the side of the gearbox again + reset codes. as per Mark's early posts
I have changed the leads back and reset the codes.
Drove around the block and the code 0130 came back.
What else can that be?
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I have changed the leads back and reset the codes.
Drove around the block and the code 0130 came back.
What else can that be?
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there is something that is causing a problem with the lambda sensors. next move would be to check out the wiring to these sensors - beyond my expertise I'm afraid but I would start at the plug end of things and work back up - this should pinpoint of there is a problem in the loom /wiring somewhere
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Where do I locate that sensor?
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Where do I locate that sensor?
MarksDTM posted a photo of sensor locations in this thread ::)
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I have checked the sensor leads and there seems to be nothing wrong there,
Guess the next option is to replace the sensor. But how do I know what 1 needs changing? Front?Rear or both?
Any ideas?
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I had a similar issue with Mick Dundees car, did a lot of live data work and the MAF appeared to be reading low.
Borrowed the one off Webby's car and it made a big difference so replaced it yesterday adn all is good.
It was a bigger to diagnose and had no fault codes showing.
Fortunately the MAF was sub 30 quid delivered
A simple test was to disconnect it, this made starting and idling much improved as the ECU defaulted to a pre-set value
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So in layman terms disconnect and the front for example and see if there is an improvement. If it is then replace the front...
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Yep.....
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I just drove the car 1/2 mile without disconnecting my sensors, and ALL my fault codes have returned.
0130
0300
0301
0303
0305
This is after 4 coil changes, spark plugs replaces, camshaft sensor changed.
What can it be? no-one seems to know!?
Anymore ideas apart from blowing the shitty car up