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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: MartinTD on 02 February 2009, 19:12:28

Title: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: MartinTD on 02 February 2009, 19:12:28
New year new battery! were would the best place to start be with my 2.5 TD as I am finding starting in the mornings. it sort of coughs and splutters and I killed the battery trying to start this morning! once started It starts on the button but it's getting it going in the morning, The colder and damper the day the harder to start. I am thinking glow plugs but I have been down this route before with another diesel and changing them made no difference.  :(
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 02 February 2009, 20:03:07
Try paperclipping it (about 1/3 of tractors are paperclippable), if you get General Glowplug error, then thats a clue....

Failing that, measure the glowplugs, should be just over 1 ohm. Open circuit, or less that 0.8 ohms is a sign there are fubar. Change all 6 together.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Omegatoy on 02 February 2009, 20:08:50
check leak off pipes are not leaking frst!!!! :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: MickAP on 02 February 2009, 20:13:06
Do you know how long the glowplugs have been in?

Mick
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: MartinTD on 02 February 2009, 20:59:29
not sure how long the glow plugs have been in for so will try the paperclip test. What are the leak off pipes? (excuse my ignorance!)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Omegatoy on 02 February 2009, 21:29:42
Quote
not sure how long the glow plugs have been in for so will try the paperclip test. What are the leak off pipes? (excuse my ignorance!)

between each injector is a rubber or neoprene pipe these allow excess fuel to be returned to the injector pump, if theyare split or leaking then you get bad starting and lumpy running till the air is all gone and replaced by diesel, hence the suggestion to check them as they are a lot cheaper and easier to replace then the glow plugs!!
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 02 February 2009, 22:11:57
Do the checks, but I'd reckon on the glow-plugs being naffed.

As 'TheBoy' says - change all six, and don't use cheapo Ebay ones.
Reputable motor factors flogged me a set of NGKs for 36 quid-ish - well worth the cash!

While you're at it, change ALL the leak-off pipes as a matter of course. Buy a length, I got 2 metres for a fiver! (NQA).
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Turk on 02 February 2009, 22:40:48
Changed my Glow-Plugs towards the end of last summer and it starts 1st time no matter how cold. Used the bike for 10 days in a row and the car still fired up 1st time.  
 :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: philhoward on 02 February 2009, 22:47:52
Quote
Do the checks, but I'd reckon on the glow-plugs being naffed.

As 'TheBoy' says - change all six, and don't use cheapo Ebay ones.
Reputable motor factors flogged me a set of NGKs for 36 quid-ish - well worth the cash!

While you're at it, change ALL the leak-off pipes as a matter of course. Buy a length, I got 2 metres for a fiver! (NQA).
GSF do BERU ones pretty cheaply as well - not sure about the BMW engine, but they're the only ones which last on Citroen/Pug diesels.  I've got the leak off pipe from halfrauds in the past - even includes the little rubber end caps and still does the job.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: berserkerboy on 03 February 2009, 08:17:38
I have just replaced the glowplugs on mine as I was having starting problems. If the car eventually started then she was lumpy for a bit with clouds of smoke. However, once warm she would start on the button.
Now I have absolutely no problem starting. I bought the ones off of ebay for £20 before I read posts about reliability. However, so far they are fine.
I found fitting these a pig despite what other people said. If you do it yourself make sure you obtain gaskets for the inlet manifold before you start. Do it on a warm day as it is very fiddly. ;)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Pitchfork on 03 February 2009, 09:31:54
Quote
Quote
Do the checks, but I'd reckon on the glow-plugs being naffed.

As 'TheBoy' says - change all six, and don't use cheapo Ebay ones.
Reputable motor factors flogged me a set of NGKs for 36 quid-ish - well worth the cash!

While you're at it, change ALL the leak-off pipes as a matter of course. Buy a length, I got 2 metres for a fiver! (NQA).
GSF do BERU ones pretty cheaply as well - not sure about the BMW engine, but they're the only ones which last on Citroen/Pug diesels.  I've got the leak off pipe from halfrauds in the past - even includes the little rubber end caps and still does the job.
Beru are OEM on BMWs I'm told
That's what's in mine & no problems for the last year
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: MartinTD on 03 February 2009, 18:44:55
Thanks for all the replies guys will check the pipes and change the glow plugs at the weekend if it is not too cold! do I need any special tools to change the glow plugs? Is there a write up on doing this job? :)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: berserkerboy on 03 February 2009, 19:18:03
No special tools. However, handy to have a 1/4 in socket set with extension as well as 1/2 in set. Also a telescopic magnet to pick up the nuts you will drop.  :'(
Don't think there's a write up. One of the members was able to do this job without removing the inlet manifold, God knows how! :o
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 03 February 2009, 20:08:28
Quote
No special tools. However, handy to have a 1/4 in socket set with extension as well as 1/2 in set. Also a telescopic magnet to pick up the nuts you will drop.  :'(
Don't think there's a write up. One of the members was able to do this job without removing the inlet manifold, God knows how! :o
faster to remove inlet - I changed my 6 in 50 mins one Friday lunchtime in the rain
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: osealy on 03 February 2009, 20:46:24
faster to remove inlet - I changed my 6 in 50 mins one Friday lunchtime in the rain

That's at least twice as fast as normal humans?

You will need nailbar to get manifold off/on.
Get gaskets too, mine were 50/50 cement.
I used hylomar blue, all I had. 1hr 50, I thought I did OK.
& Yes I had a telescopic  magnet thingy.
Perfect now in the crappy weather even with poor battery & ebay plugs 20+p&p.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 03 February 2009, 21:54:33
Quote
faster to remove inlet - I changed my 6 in 50 mins one Friday lunchtime in the rain

That's at least twice as fast as normal humans?

You will need nailbar to get manifold off/on.
Get gaskets too, mine were 50/50 cement.
I used hylomar blue, all I had. 1hr 50, I thought I did OK.
& Yes I had a telescopic  magnet thingy.
Perfect now in the crappy weather even with poor battery & ebay plugs 20+p&p.
Nah, it simply lifts off, no hassle. Its just a knack
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Turk on 03 February 2009, 22:02:18
Quote
I have just replaced the glowplugs on mine as I was having starting problems. If the car eventually started then she was lumpy for a bit with clouds of smoke. However, once warm she would start on the button.
Now I have absolutely no problem starting. I bought the ones off of ebay for £20 before I read posts about reliability. However, so far they are fine.
I found fitting these a pig despite what other people said. If you do it yourself make sure you obtain gaskets for the inlet manifold before you start. Do it on a warm day as it is very fiddly. ;)

For defo !  Thought sealant would do it but oily gunge bubbling around the joints of mine now. It's very slight so gonna leave it til the better weather. Even tho I have the keys to my mates garage with lifts, pit, tools etc...it's still to bloody cold there to be curing only mildly itrratating issues.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 22 April 2009, 09:19:32
What is paperclipping??? Ive got the same problem but mine wont start at all this morning. The kids are happy as they cant get to school! It was leaking diesel through the pipes on top and have had them changed. Not sure after reading about changing glow plugs Im able to do that as I cnt find a basic guide on here with pics :-[
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Andy B on 22 April 2009, 09:23:25
Quote
What is paperclipping??? Ive got the same problem but mine wont start at all this morning. The kids are happy as they cant get to school! It was leaking diesel through the pipes on top and have had them changed. Not sure after reading about changing glow plugs Im able to do that as I cnt find a basic guide on here with pics :-[

Look here ....
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1152601768 Not sure you can do it on yours though  :(
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 22 April 2009, 10:25:25
Have done the test and it worked ;D
code   49      Glow Device General Error  &
64      Fuel Quantity Control Out of Range

So at least I now know it is the glow plugs not sure about the other code will look into that later. But he pipes ??? on top that I thought the garage had changed all of them but after looking only 3 done and back 2 soaked in diesel >:(

As for glow plugs not even sure what they look like or where they are? off to get some and get a haynes manual :D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 22 April 2009, 12:03:07
Ahhhhhh! the dreaded 64, can mean a fault associated with the injection pump!

Right, before going further, change the glow-plugs and all leak-off pipes. See what happens, as changing these might effect a cure.
You can get a length of the piping from reputable motor factors cheap enough, and fit Beru or NGK glow-plugs.
Don't use cheapo plugs whatever.

Don't get a Haynes manual - there's no information on the diesels in it.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: platty on 22 April 2009, 12:44:27
Quote
One of the members was able to do this job without removing the inlet manifold, God knows how! :o
I think that might have been me! It was the first job on my Omega a couple of years ago and it took about 2 hours - as suggested, just take the manifold off. My knuckles have only just healed up  :(
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 22 April 2009, 12:44:54
Have got back with 5 NGK glow plugs, have to go back later for no 6. I already have haynes manual for my petrol2.5 estate so didnt bother looking, just as well if there isnt one! Where do I find step my step guides on the diesel engine, Im not 100% where the glow plugs even are. Under here????My previous posts have warned you Im new to this ;D ;D do I need to get a new gasket too?
(http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/plugster/011-1.jpg)

(http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/plugster/012-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 22 April 2009, 15:23:49
Yep, inlet manifold to come off, then you'll see the plugs screwed into the head.
NGK plugs should be okay - I've had no problems with them.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Cybertrucker on 22 April 2009, 15:39:38
Quote
Where do I find step my step guides on the diesel engine
http://images.omegaowners.com/documents/25TD/M51D25_Engine.pdf - It's on the Omega forum, but it's about BMW engines fitted to Range Rovers!  ;D   Same engine though.  Not sure if there's any "How To's", but that should tell you everything you could ever want to know about your engine, and then some.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: platty on 22 April 2009, 16:39:36
Page 2 of the guide shows where the Glow Plugs (Item 19) are located - you will then realise why they are such a pain in the backside to access!
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 22 April 2009, 19:34:45
After your help and advice and looking back at a few old posting Ive done it. 6 out and 5 in, cant wait until tomorrow to get no 6 in :D  Was no problem at all just kept running in and out of the house to check I was doing it right, maybe my little girly hands made it easier ;D ;D ;D
Glad I never paid the £400 I was quoted for that! The most annoying thing was one  of the dogs barking and when I banged on the window I put my hand through it >:( Fingers crossed when it goes back together tomorrow it starts :)
(http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/plugster/018.jpg)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Omegatoy on 22 April 2009, 19:52:27
Quote
After your help and advice and looking back at a few old posting Ive done it. 6 out and 5 in, cant wait until tomorrow to get no 6 in :D  Was no problem at all just kept running in and out of the house to check I was doing it right, maybe my little girly hands made it easier ;D ;D ;D
Glad I never paid the £400 I was quoted for that! The most annoying thing was one  of the dogs barking and when I banged on the window I put my hand through it >:( Fingers crossed when it goes back together tomorrow it starts :)
(http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/plugster/018.jpg)

nice one mate, easy when you know how!!!! :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 22 April 2009, 19:52:41
Well done ali - just keep at it!
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 22 April 2009, 22:55:26
well done ali :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: platty on 23 April 2009, 08:37:10
Well done - and a great reference picture for future TD owners who struggle with it!  :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 23 April 2009, 09:43:30
Still waiting for no 6 to arrive and to collect gasket, I guess thats straightforward? Cant see where one was?
Im going to do an oil change very soon :D :D :D :D, should I change the oil filter now why I can get to it? or will that be a waste of time if not changing oil until next week?
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Cybertrucker on 23 April 2009, 09:54:24
Changing the filter first won't be as good as changing them both together, because the old oil will contaminate your nice new filter.  How badly it will contaminate the filter will depend on the state of the old oil - if it looks relatively clean then it might not be too bad, but if your old oil looks like you could make roads with it then definitely not!

Why not approach the question from the other end - as you can get to the filter easily now, and you've got to wait for the other heater plug to arrive anyway, why not do your oil change now?  The only other thing you've got to do is take the sump plug out and the job's done!   ;D

Brilliant job so far, by the way, and a very useful picture - you can come and change the heater plugs on mine when they need doing!   :y

Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 23 April 2009, 10:55:30
That thought had crossed my mind :D I guess I need ramps or trolley jack so not sure when I can get them. My dads got both! What oil do you suggest? As for doing your glow plugs  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Cybertrucker on 23 April 2009, 11:32:24
Quote
That thought had crossed my mind :D I guess I need ramps or trolley jack so not sure when I can get them. My dads got both! What oil do you suggest? As for doing your glow plugs  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'd suggest not ramps, because once you've got the sump plug out you might need to get the car level again so all the oil drains out - depending on the shape of the sump there might be oil left in it if the car's tipped backwards.  Trolley jack would be better so you can lower it once the plug's out and raise it again to put the plug back in again once all the oil's out.

You need an axle stand or something else to take the weight of the car while you're underneath it though - NEVER go under a car supported only by a hydraulic jack as they can suddenly fail.  Yes, we've all done it, me included, but someone my Dad knows had a trolley jack drop a car on him last year and it took him two days to die.  I need you to change my glow plugs, so use an axle stand, okay?   ;)

I can't advise you on which oil to use, as I haven't changed mine yet so I haven't looked into it.  I'm sure someone else will be along in a minute who can advise you on that though, or you might find something elsewhere on the forum.  Good luck!  Oh, and roll your sleeve up before you take the sump plug out - it's easier to get oil off your arm than it is to get it out of your best shirt!  ;D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: largecol on 23 April 2009, 12:02:36
Quote
That thought had crossed my mind :D I guess I need ramps or trolley jack so not sure when I can get them. My dads got both! What oil do you suggest? As for doing your glow plugs  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hello mate, as said, well done on the job so far!! :y The best oil for the TD is 10/40 semi-synthetic, and dont forget regular changes(around 3k), also make sure you get the correct oil filter as there are 2 types dependant on engine number :y :y :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: platty on 23 April 2009, 12:11:28
Best way to go is Vx -

You can buy it on TC 4 for the price of 3 - 20 litres for £32.67+vat which will be enough for 3 x oil changes (6l a time) and you will have some left for top ups.

3 x filters cost £15.54+vat

So for £55 you will have 3 oil changes - for me about 6 months!!

PS - I use ramps for draining as the plug is at the back of the sump, but roll it off them when refilling to get a true dipstick reading. Also, it might sound strange - but put some rag around the filler and blow into it when the oil is just dribbling out the drain plug - you will be surprised how much more comes out  :o
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: largecol on 23 April 2009, 12:30:57
Quote
Best way to go is Vx -

You can buy it on TC 4 for the price of 3 - 20 litres for £32.67+vat which will be enough for 3 x oil changes (6l a time) and you will have some left for top ups.

3 x filters cost £15.54+vat

So for £55 you will have 3 oil changes - for me about 6 months!!

PS - I use ramps for draining as the plug is at the back of the sump, but roll it off them when refilling to get a true dipstick reading. Also, it might sound strange - but put some rag around the filler and blow into it when the oil is just dribbling out the drain plug - you will be surprised how much more comes out  :o
Never thought about that one Platty :o, hows that done with the cannister still on? Will try it next change :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: platty on 23 April 2009, 13:20:52
largecol - I had never thought about it before, but once I had drained the oil (left for about 20 mins) and removed the filter, I temporarily screwed the plastic filter lid back on again (finger tight) and then put some rag around the filler and blew into it as hard as I could!

There was a big splosh below the car as a load more oil ran out of the drain plug - repeated a couple of times and got more out. Might not work for everyone, but it certainly got the maximum old oil out for me. But I also use a new J-cloth (75p for 20 in Netto)to remove all old oil from bottom of filter housing too because there is always a puddle that doesn't drain out. Got to be thorough!  :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: largecol on 23 April 2009, 13:49:36
Sounds like a plan Platty! :y, not sure what my lass would think if she catches me sticking the lips on the Mig?? :-* :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: platty on 23 April 2009, 15:34:06
Quote
Sounds like a plan Platty! :y, not sure what my lass would think if she catches me sticking the lips on the Mig?? :-* :o :o :o :o
Yes - she could quite easily get the wrong idea I would imagine  ::)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 23 April 2009, 16:46:10
Think Im happier with ramps, so will pick them up later. Mad day at work so have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks for oil info, its a bit late about getting best clothes dirty, my pink jumper isnt quite the same after changing my plugs ;D I think I need overalls but not sure they make them small enough for me ;) Not sure about blowing into Syd either but if you say so :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: largecol on 23 April 2009, 16:59:15
Quote
Think Im happier with ramps, so will pick them up later. Mad day at work so have to wait until tomorrow. Thanks for oil info, its a bit late about getting best clothes dirty, my pink jumper isnt quite the same after changing my plugs ;D I think I need overalls but not sure they make them small enough for me ;) Not sure about blowing into Syd either but if you say so :D :D :D :D :D
I`m sure Loo-Knee will have a spare he can let you have for mates rates! ::) ::) :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 25 April 2009, 12:10:03
Now got no 6 glow plug in and taken out old oil filter and have struggled to remove old gaskets. The inlet ports??? are full of black gunk >:( do I need to clean them out? No 2 jumper is now covered in oil ;D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 25 April 2009, 12:15:26
Quote
Now got no 6 glow plug in and taken out old oil filter and have struggled to remove old gaskets. The inlet ports??? are full of black gunk >:( do I need to clean them out? No 2 jumper is now covered in oil ;D
which gaskets?
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Cybertrucker on 25 April 2009, 15:09:08
Quote
Now got no 6 glow plug in and taken out old oil filter and have struggled to remove old gaskets. The inlet ports??? are full of black gunk >:( do I need to clean them out? No 2 jumper is now covered in oil ;D
As a general rule black gunk is always worth removing.  A more accurate description (dry powdery black gunk, thin watery black gunk, thick oily black gunk?) plus possibly a photo might help us to identify exactly where the gunk is and if it's telling you something about your engine or not - some gunks are a natural part of an engine, others only form if there's something wrong.

Might I suggest that before you ruin your entire wardrobe you invest in a pair of overalls?  :)  They're not that expensive (probably not much more than a replacement pink jumper!), and if you search on Fleabay you might get a nice pair of genuine Vauxhall overalls second-hand - I got myself a couple of pairs of genuine Scania overalls fairly cheap a while ago.  They'll help keep your clothes clean, plus (patronising male chauvinist pig mode) I'm sure you'll look incredibly fetching in them! (exit patronising male chauvinist pig mode)   ;D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 25 April 2009, 15:44:05
Ive got thick oily black gunk, no idea when the oil was last changed as only had the car a few weeks. The gaskets are from the inlet manifold, 5 came off easily but one seemed to be glued on, all very brittle. (http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/plugster/engine004.jpg)
As for overalls not sure they make them that small, may need kids ones :D :D :D going to put the pink jumper back on as going to drain the oil now!!  ;)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Cybertrucker on 25 April 2009, 15:56:27
The state of the gaskets sounds about typical, so no cause for alarm there I'd say.  The amount of oil in the inlet manifold looks a bit excessive though.

Rather than let oil fumes from the engine straight out into the atmosphere, emissions control regulations for years have dictated that they be sucked into the combustion chambers and burnt, so there will be a small amount of oil being sucked into your inlet and then into the cylinders.  I'm still not over-familiar with the Omega myself, but based on other cars I've worked on over the last 30+ years that looks a little excessive to me.  I'll leave it to others to say whether that amount of oil is normal, though, and what it might say about the state of the engine.

Still can't wait to see you in the overalls...   ;)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Omegatoy on 25 April 2009, 18:58:50
thats about normal for the 2.5td however of more interest is the actual inlet manifold itself is it thick in there?
only way i know of stopping the wet gunge occuring is to blank the egr to stop the exhaust getting in there with the oil and creating it, mine has been blanked for 4 years now and never had a problem, when i first removed the manifold when i first got the car i was horrified to see how small the inlet had become because of the gunk!!! :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 25 April 2009, 19:25:53
Just finished and put it all back together and it still doesnt start :( :( :( now where do I look? yes it is was just as gunky in the manifold could that effect it starting? done the paper clip test and still coming up the same codes 49 & 64 but not sure if it has to be reset ?
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 25 April 2009, 21:06:33
Exactly how much fuel is showing on the gauge ali?
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 25 April 2009, 22:07:05
20l I had just put some in before I came home and it then never started. It had been playing up before hand hence why the glow plug change etc. Yes I did put diesel in not petrol :D :D :D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 25 April 2009, 22:15:33
The reason that I asked this, is that the in-tank pumps commonly give starting problems when the fuel level is around the 20 litre mark.

It's often due to crud floating around in the swirl-chamber, which restricts the gauze filter at the base of the pump itself. Platty has put an excellent 'how to' in the 'Maintenance Guides' section.

To get you going though, why not try putting, say, a gallon or two of diesel in first.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 25 April 2009, 22:28:35
Ok will add that to my list of things to try in the morning, thanks for all the help, hope I get it going as Ive got brakes pads to do next  ;D  other than it not starting Im really pleased with myself  :D :D and looking forward to finding some overals that fit ;)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Cybertrucker on 26 April 2009, 00:22:41
Quote
Ok will add that to my list of things to try in the morning, thanks for all the help, hope I get it going as Ive got brakes pads to do next  ;D  other than it not starting Im really pleased with myself  :D :D and looking forward to finding some overals that fit ;)
In recognition of your valiant efforts (and the loss of - so far - two jumpers) I think we might have to club together and buy you some Vauxhall overalls off Fleabay!  ;D  I shall certainly know where to come when I need some work doing on my tractor...
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 26 April 2009, 10:10:40
Have put some more diesel in, still wont start. There is no fuel coming through injectors and have no brake cleaner as suggested yesterday.( running out of daylight ) The battery has been on charge all night and after 2 or 3 goes has died. Going to take battery off Pete and see what happens.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 26 April 2009, 10:16:37
Lift the inspection plate in the back, (four self-tapping screws).
Get someone to turn the key to second position, and listen to see if you can hear the in-tank pump running.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 26 April 2009, 10:36:14
Sorry in the back of where? not sure where the fuel pump is :(
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 26 April 2009, 10:41:04
Found it :D :D :D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 26 April 2009, 10:42:22
Quote
Sorry in the back of where? not sure where the fuel pump is :(

It's a round plate located on the load area floor, forward of the spare wheel well. Normally a silvery colour and about 6-ish inches in diameter!
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 26 April 2009, 10:49:19
Its not running, the fuel level is still around 20l should I get a can full (5 lt) or do I now need to change the fuel pump :o Im going to rebuild the car at this rate :D :D
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 26 April 2009, 11:04:24
Remove both rubber hoses from top of pump plate, noting their orientation. Now turn the key to second position, and see if fuel squirts out of one of them. You might have to cut-off the old clips and refit with smallish jubilee clips.

Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 26 April 2009, 11:44:16
nothing :( I have checked 18 ( 20 ) fuse and thats fine
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 26 April 2009, 12:03:02
I'm assuming that your satisfied there's electrical supply to the pump.

Undo the large collar on the tank plate - I use a blunt cold-chisel/hammer tapping gently anti-clockwise. Then disconnect the battery and release the multi-plug, putting it out of harms way.

Now follow Platty's post in Maintenance Guides and release the pump.
Beware that there's a clip to release the ribbed transfer pipe from the pump itself, which is released by pushing the thumb grip on the retaining clip inwards.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 26 April 2009, 12:52:08
Taken out pump, filter doesnt look that bad. Ive linked it to a battery and nothing happened, so as long as I did that right I guess its dead. Had enough now so will have another look tomorrow :( :( and find out how much more money Syd is going to cost me. Just a thought shame I cant take the pump out of Pete? But thats petrol so guess its different?
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Agemo on 26 April 2009, 13:14:53
Yep, pump is different apparently. I need to have a look at mine, but my plan was to get hold of a spare, only I have not found one yet.  ::)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 26 April 2009, 13:57:01
Quote
Taken out pump, filter doesnt look that bad. Ive linked it to a battery and nothing happened, so as long as I did that right I guess its dead. Had enough now so will have another look tomorrow :( :( and find out how much more money Syd is going to cost me. Just a thought shame I cant take the pump out of Pete? But thats petrol so guess its different?

Personally, I'd get a new one from Vx, but you could try Omega Spare Parts on 07706 495877. I've had good service from them in the past.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 26 April 2009, 14:20:42
I couldnt let it beat me so have spent ages cleaning connections and testing bits. Now have pump running but snapped of filter on the bottom >:( so cant put it back in and try it. Doubt I can get one today so will have to wait until tomorrw, but at least I dont need a new pump and Ive learnt lots again :D :D :D thank you
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 26 April 2009, 14:32:55
Right ali, good on yer mate!

While you've got the top off the tank, why not try blowing through the ribbed transfer pipe, (or an air-line), then clean the swirl-chamber base thoroughly. Obviously, this is best done by emptying the tank first. You could temporarily refit the pump, and connect a hose from the outlet to a barrel. Pump runs for about 30 seconds at a time - it's just a case of being patient whilst the pump does the job for you. I use this method myself successfully.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: semisheen on 26 April 2009, 14:45:25
For what its worth my lift pump was completly dead ...its very easy to make the petrol lift pump fit..ive had no further problems ..pm  me if you want further details as i dont want to bable on if you dont want to try it
Regards

George  :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: osealy on 26 April 2009, 17:18:44
I broke the filter off mine while pricking around trying to sort no cold start. I just wired it back on . No problem. The faullt turned out to be the leak off pipes.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 27 April 2009, 08:53:22
Have attached filter back on just to test if thats solved the problem. I now have fuel coming out of 1 pipe but still none getting to injectors.  have no other car to run about in today so cant try the brake cleaner thing :(  I think Syds beaten me and Im going to have to call out a man :-/ any thing else I can try to get the diesel flowing :'( To end on a positive note all codes have cleared on paper clip test just the 12 :y
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 27 April 2009, 09:04:19
Quote
Have attached filter back on just to test if thats solved the problem. I now have fuel coming out of 1 pipe but still none getting to injectors.  have no other car to run about in today so cant try the brake cleaner thing :(  I think Syds beaten me and Im going to have to call out a man :-/ any thing else I can try to get the diesel flowing :'( To end on a positive note all codes have cleared on paper clip test just the 12 :y
Possibly now an airlock in system.

Pop off fuel filter, and fill that to the brim with diesel.

Then, to bleed the injector lines, with the car running (if it will, else short stints of cranking), loosen they fuel pipe to each injector at a time (only about 1/2 a turn) until you get a good spurt of fuel.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 27 April 2009, 09:51:36
Yep ali, probably just needs a good bleeding now.
Follow TB's advice. ^^^
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 27 April 2009, 10:04:12
ok will wait for the rain to stop :) Fuel filter? will have a look where that is and then have to drain some diesel off. Did try bleeding the injectors as said but it didnt work and the battery died. On charge again and will do filter before trying again. Thanks guys
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 27 April 2009, 10:17:43
Fuel filter is bolted to OSF wing, about 4" in diameter, 6" long.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 27 April 2009, 11:57:51
As its still raining want to check this is the right thing before getting wet :D
(http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/plugster/009.jpg)
If this is it, you guessed it ;) ;) Next question how do I get it off? Found  plastic thing underneath, lots of bolts on top?
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 27 April 2009, 13:15:39
Quote
As its still raining want to check this is the right thing before getting wet :D
(http://i373.photobucket.com/albums/oo171/plugster/009.jpg)
If this is it, you guessed it ;) ;) Next question how do I get it off? Found  plastic thing underneath, lots of bolts on top?
Yup :y

Unscrews like an old fashion oil filter.  May need to undo bolts holding cap to wing to give extra clearance
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 27 April 2009, 13:19:45
ok, still raining but will give it a go when I can. I have been having trouble with the key remotes, this wouldnt have anything to do with it? I had one car that if the blippy thing didnt work then engine wouldnt turn over.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Seth on 27 April 2009, 13:25:26
Yep ali, that's the beggar!

Easiest way that I find to do it is by removing the complete unit from the inner wing - thus:
1) Remove both fuel pipes on the filter head. Don't lose the copper washers - 4 in total!
2) Unclip and release both wiring multi-plugs. Note their orientation.
3) Remove the two captive bolts that secure the filter head to the wing.
4) Lift out the complete filter assembly.
5) Carefully grip the filter head in a vice, (or Workmate etc), and unscrew the filter from the head.
6) Fill the filter with fresh fuel, and screw it back on to the head. Don't go mad, just screw it on firmly.
7) Keep the unit vertical, and carefully refit it to the wing.
8) Reconnect the wiring and pipes.
9) Now slacken-off, (say a half-turn), each of the six injector pipes at the injectors.
10) Crank the engine over, until you see diesel spirting from the injector pipe ends. Don't get close, as this is high pressure stuff here!
11) Once fuel is seen, stop cranking, and tighten the injector pipes.
12) Turn the key, allow the glow-plug light to extinguish, and voila, it should start and run.
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 27 April 2009, 14:01:02
Quote
ok, still raining but will give it a go when I can. I have been having trouble with the key remotes, this wouldnt have anything to do with it? I had one car that if the blippy thing didnt work then engine wouldnt turn over.
Is it the infra red type, or RF type remote (if unsure, what year is it?)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: ali on 27 April 2009, 16:34:54
Syd is back to life ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D thankyou
But when I needed to fill filter I took back out fuel pump and got diesel that way, after 2 pumps it stopped and lost power again :( a bit of a fiddle and got it going again :) So not sure if pump is on way out or just loose cable? Im off to see how much a new pump and filter is as at the moment the broken filter is wedged on :D Oh and now my fuel needle doesnt work but I think I forgot to re connect the cable :o
At least now I can stop bugging you all until the next job ;)
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: Cybertrucker on 27 April 2009, 17:20:50
Quote
Syd is back to life ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D thankyou
Excellent!  Well done.  You are hereby awarded the Order of Cybertrucker for courage and perseverance in the field of Omege repair, and for being generally brilliant.

Quote
At least now I can stop bugging you all until the next job ;)
You can bug us as much as you like!  I've learnt a lot from this thread, which will be very useful on my Miggy if I ever have to do the same jobs and can't persuade you to come and do it for me!  ;)

ps  Um, what are you like on replacing ABS control units and headlights...?
Title: Re: 2.5TD poor starting
Post by: TheBoy on 27 April 2009, 18:33:45
Quote
ps  Um, what are you like on replacing ABS control units and headlights...?
Headlights, nice and easy.

ABS, never done myself, but, err, 'fiddly' by all accounts ;D