Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: largecol on 07 May 2009, 22:00:20

Title: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: largecol on 07 May 2009, 22:00:20
Ok, well ive been to look over a Tractor Estate this evening, GLS but hardly a mark on it for its age - 1998. Its got 167k on the clock but still pulls on ok. BUT (and its a BIG BUT) the guy has taken the Tractor tag a bit too literally and has been regularly running the old girl on the RED stuff!! :o :o.
Should i make my excuses and exit stage left, or does she still have a chance? The guy is askin a fair price, but is the damage already done? :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: iainb on 07 May 2009, 22:04:51
Red & blue diesel are the same as you get from any high street pump but it has a dye in it to mark it for TAX purposes
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: Iain on 07 May 2009, 22:18:32
Yeah mate only dye,shouldn't have any effect on the motor...

My mate runs his 4x4 on red constant,no problems and has never been caught,had the jeep about 6 years now
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: Bent valve on 07 May 2009, 22:22:23
 Are you concerned about fuel duty or whether the motor has suffered?
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: KillerWatt on 07 May 2009, 22:23:08
As above, the only difference between "red" and "pump white" is the fact that "red" has been dyed to indicate it is for off road use only.

If "red" really did f**k your engine up, do you really think for one minute that boat owners with £10,000 worth of Volvo Penta engine would be running their craft on sub standard fuel?
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: HolyCount on 07 May 2009, 22:24:07
Motor will be OK ---- you won't if you get stopped with a tank full of the stuff.  ::)
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: doz on 07 May 2009, 22:24:43
Sorry guys red and normal diesel are not the same. Red has a much higher sulfur content and other low grade stuff sunk into it. This won't cause you to much grief but the dye doesn't come out and if your stopped by custom and excise they will still impound your motor and fine you loads. I've got to say it's probably best to walk away.
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: Omega man 2 on 07 May 2009, 22:29:08
My old man used to run his opel rekord on green (it's acutally green over here :D ) diesal and never did any damage to the motor.

If you dont want to get caught by customs I suggest you run a couple tanks of normal diesal through it and change the filter :y
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: tmx on 07 May 2009, 22:31:48
i know from good sources that BMWs with that engine run fine on the red stuff cant blame him its nearly half price!

you have to change the oil and fuel ilter more regually if your on the pop
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: iainb on 07 May 2009, 22:35:38
Quote
Sorry guys red and normal diesel are not the same. Red has a much higher sulfur content and other low grade stuff sunk into it. This won't cause you to much grief but the dye doesn't come out and if your stopped by custom and excise they will still impound your motor and fine you loads. I've got to say it's probably best to walk away.
Sorry to tell you this is a myth
The men from the customs and excise carry dye dispersant for tankers that have coloured dye by mistake and it happens quite regularly :-X
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: doz on 07 May 2009, 22:40:55
Were gonna have to disagree on this one. I work in a oil refinery were we import the red dye to inject into the diesel. It stains everything and if you have run the car on red for some time it is almost impossible to remove it.
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: iainb on 07 May 2009, 22:44:51
Cant dis agree about staining and I see enough engines to prove your point.
But on the othere subject lets agree to disagree
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: KillerWatt on 07 May 2009, 23:09:15
Quote
Were gonna have to disagree on this one. I work in a oil refinery were we import the red dye to inject into the diesel. It stains everything and if you have run the car on red for some time it is almost impossible to remove it.
Yes the dye stains everything, and yes the sulfur content is slightly higher (so it smokes a little under hard acceleration).
However a filter change and a couple of tanks of "pump white" will be more than enough to pass any customs check (customs only check the fuel in the tank, they don't go looking to see if the motor has run on red at any time in it's past).

I ran our old Xantia on red for years, and the only time it ever saw "pump white" was 2 weeks before the MOT...when it had a filter change as well.
Come smoke test time, it always went through on a "fast pass" with a reading of 0.51
Soon as it passed the MOT, back on the cherry for another year..
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: hoj on 07 May 2009, 23:43:42
Someone i know (hahum) had a Granada diesel 10 years ago and ran on red for at least 2 years whilst working on a building site.
Around 18 months after stopping using red they got stopped car took off them and fined too.
Never did any damage to engine though
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: p j morgan on 08 May 2009, 00:18:12
going back ten years or so i had a twin axle transit van .the customs knocked on my door at 6 am and said they wanted to check my fuel .they checked the tank and injectors ..i had the normal white stuff in .they >:( went away leaving me having to bleed my system  .no  sorry for bothering you or nothing !ignorant gits :y
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: KillerWatt on 08 May 2009, 06:57:10
Quote
going back ten years or so i had a twin axle transit van .the customs knocked on my door at 6 am and said they wanted to check my fuel .they checked the tank and injectors ..i had the normal white stuff in .they >:( went away leaving me having to bleed my system  .no  sorry for bothering you or nothing !ignorant gits :y
They wouldn't get away with that these days.
If they found nothing amiss and thought they'd walk away leaving your motor not exactly how they found it, just think of the compo.
That's why now they only give the tank a quick siphon.
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: Justdave on 08 May 2009, 07:41:37
To cut a very long story short I have witnessed many joint operations with Customs, VOSA, DVLA and the Police in various traffic 'initiatives' (they use our facilities) and let me tell you it's not worth it, walk away ! no matter what you think they don't give in until they've got what they want.  
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: Omegatoy on 08 May 2009, 07:57:27
well well, here is the way i see it as told to me by a customs employee!!! if the car has been abroad at all in its life then they can do nothing about the red staining as it is perfectly legal to buy red in france and spain to use on the road!!
plus the old dippers has been scaled down to almost zero now, they jusat dont bother with it as red is being phased out!!
few tanks of ordianary ultimate and you away col
go for it!!!
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: largecol on 08 May 2009, 09:59:57
Thanks for the responses chaps, seems like a 50/50 split with opinions for and against - got to be honest, the same thoughts i had. My main concern was if the engine would`ve come to any harm from using the cherry, from what i`ve gathered from you guys that probly wont be an issue. So now its more a question of risking being dipped. Hmmm heads or tails . . . . . .  :-/ :-/ ::)
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: Jimbob on 08 May 2009, 10:19:15
You will have a new log book (v5) with purchase date on, you cant be held responsible for anything before that date!

I would make sure you fill out the optional mileage part for extra belt and braces.

That way, if you were 'caught' using red...it would only be tax evasion for the miles you have done since purchase... 2 tanks of fuel and surely wont be a detectable level left.
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: KillerWatt on 08 May 2009, 17:09:15
Quote
My main concern was if the engine would`ve come to any harm from using the cherry,
Absolutely no harm whatsoever.

Quote
So now its more a question of risking being dipped. Hmmm heads or tails . . . . . .  :-/ :-/ ::)
If you have "pump white" in the tank, you have no worries at all.
Whatever it ran on before you bought it is not your problem....and unless they strip you down at the roadside (proper stripdown that is), they won't know what it had in the tank before.

If the car is the right money for it's condition, go for it.
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: tmx on 08 May 2009, 17:15:16
reds fine all diesel engines eexcept cars run on it!

works have been using it in generators for years its fine Rolls Royce Straight 8 Diesels dont mind it

tbh they will only dip a car if theyve had a tip off! or its mega smokey
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: charlie on 08 May 2009, 17:35:27
You are reponisble for what ever diesel is in the car  once you buy it.
so if you want the car, empty the tank and put white in. ps dont buy the car if it has been stoppped for red ,you carnt go past a taffic car without getting stopped.
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: KillerWatt on 08 May 2009, 17:35:50
Quote
tbh they will only dip a car if theyve had a tip off! or its mega smokey
Not strictly true.
Hants police automatically dip you (if it's a diesel) if they stop you for any reason these days, and a lot of other forces do the same.
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: HolyCount on 08 May 2009, 17:53:11
AFAIK many forces have adopted routine dipping in the light of the current financial hard times .... more likelyhood of red being used on the roads !
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: Omega man 2 on 08 May 2009, 18:07:25
Do they look up numberplates to see if its regestered as a diesel?
If not, put a v6 badge on it ::)

My dad was never tested because rekord diesels had a "lump" in the bonnet and his was a transplant ;D
Title: Re: Worried about Red Diesel . . .
Post by: KillerWatt on 08 May 2009, 20:22:20
Quote
Do they look up numberplates to see if its regestered as a diesel?
If not, put a v6 badge on it ::)
They already know whether you are taxed, insured, MOT'd, licensed to drive, and what car it is before you even stop these days.

Badging it up as something else isn't going to help, and if you have legit fuel in the tank then you have no problem anway.