Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Darth Loo-knee on 15 May 2009, 15:28:01
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Robwig is having nothing but trouble with his car on LPG.
It is running brilliant on Petrol, so he again has taken the car back to this so called "LPG Gas Fitter" for him to correct the car.
Yesterday Rob was told his Thermostat was stuck shut, and yet running on petrol the temperature was fine and never boiled up etc....
Today Rob has being told his Cylinder Head or a Cylinder is cracked....
I think this Knobhead is making things up as he goes along which to be fair is costing Rob a small fortune.
Can oneone recommend a good LPG Gas Fitter around the Wigan area, so he can get a second opinion or even get his car set up properly?
Cheers
Daz :y
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Noooo not the Danny outfit :(
Sorry it is up to you!
Lets start with the basics.
How is the evaporator plumbed in?
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Air getting in or airlocks - some plumbing he has added is too high
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The honest answer to your first question is I dont know where it is plumbed into... Although James mentioned last night about LPG being plumbed into the coolant bridge and HBV but I have seen no extra piping going to the HBV at all :-?
Rob also mentioned yesterday that this LPG Fitter said there was some air bubbles coming up inside this Reservoir...
But I think this fitter has had enough time and chances to fix this car for him if at he can, which seems unlikely to me.
Don't think it is the same LPG Fitter that Danny had as Zok asked the same question a few weeks ago.
Just could do with a known good recommened fitter so Rob can get a second opinion, if then a problem is found with the instalation surely Rob could get some of his money back and perhaps his car sorted.
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Air bubbles - definately air and not gas?
Sounds like a leak in the plumbing alterations.
Sorry don't know of any decent installers up there.
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Rob has just phoned me he has just picked up his cr from the LPG Fitters.
His car is now not running well on either Petrol or Gas.......... and yet when he took it in it was running well on Petrol but not gas.
Poor bloke I bet he is ready to torch this car :(
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Rob has just phoned me he has just picked up his cr from the LPG Fitters.
His car is now not running well on either Petrol or Gas.......... and yet when he took it in it was running well on Petrol but not gas.
Poor bloke I bet he is ready to torch this car :(
WTF has he screwed up now >:(
Are there any codes?
If not look at ignition stuff
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Rob has just phoned me he has just picked up his cr from the LPG Fitters.
His car is now not running well on either Petrol or Gas.......... and yet when he took it in it was running well on Petrol but not gas.
Poor bloke I bet he is ready to torch this car :(
WTF has he screwed up now >:(
Are there any codes?
If not look at ignition stuff
Rob has had brand new Dispack and Leads fitted on Tuesday this week. Brand new plugs were fitted a couple of weeks ago. This made no difference to the crap running on Gas. The car was running how it should on Petrol though. :-?
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I might be up that way in a couple of weeks time to have a look if it's still playing up!
Rob, try asking for someone local who's been recommended on http://www.lpgforum.co.uk
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I still think it sounds like it's not plumbed correctly
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Ok how is the bloody thing supposed to be plumbed in then?
Rob says there is a couple of pipes going towards the back of the engine.... but cant see where too.
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Right... Let's back up a step.
He's just changed the stat and it now runs badly on both petrol and LPG? They guy has had the plenum off so there's probably now an air leak causing the petrol running issues. My guess is he's pinched one of the plenum-inlet o rings as that's what I did when I had the same problem.
Coolant to the vap should go from the coolant bridge, through the vaporiser and then back into the Coolant bridge side of the HBV. That ensures constant, high flow of hot coolant.
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Could it be that its getting to much or to little gas? Was just a thought. But a cracked cylinder head would cause white exhaust smoke.
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Rob has just phoned me he has just picked up his cr from the LPG Fitters.
His car is now not running well on either Petrol or Gas.......... and yet when he took it in it was running well on Petrol but not gas.
Poor bloke I bet he is ready to torch this car :(
WTF has he screwed up now >:(
Are there any codes?
If not look at ignition stuff
Rob has had brand new Dispack and Leads fitted on Tuesday this week. Brand new plugs were fitted a couple of weeks ago. This made no difference to the crap running on Gas. The car was running how it should on Petrol though. :-?
Daz thanks for your help just done paperclip test and got 12,89,21,129,33,31and 12 :( :(
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Rob has just phoned me he has just picked up his cr from the LPG Fitters.
His car is now not running well on either Petrol or Gas.......... and yet when he took it in it was running well on Petrol but not gas.
Poor bloke I bet he is ready to torch this car :(
WTF has he screwed up now >:(
Are there any codes?
If not look at ignition stuff
Rob has had brand new Dispack and Leads fitted on Tuesday this week. Brand new plugs were fitted a couple of weeks ago. This made no difference to the crap running on Gas. The car was running how it should on Petrol though. :-?
Daz thanks for your help just done paperclip test and got 12,89,21,129,33,31and 12 :( :(
Air leak... I'm sure this is similar to the codes I got when I had the same problems and it was just an air leak :y :y :y
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Unfortunately I have to get ready for work but will try and keep up with this thread later :y :y :y
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what make of lpg kit is it?
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Might be just a loose breather pipe if hes had the plenum off ( the thin ones along the n/s front to back) might be worth a quick look.
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Dont know if it will help but I have a sequential Koltec system on mine you can have a mooch at to compare plumbing etc, been on a good few years and never had a prob.
It was fitted by North Yorkshire Autogas who seemed ok, I seem to recall an outfit in Flinthshire who were reccomended to me who will inspect it for half an hours labour and fix within that if they can, or give you diagnosis and quote if they cant.
Good luck anyway
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what make of lpg kit is it?
The kit is a Sequent
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Might be just a loose breather pipe if hes had the plenum off ( the thin ones along the n/s front to back) might be worth a quick look.
Loo-knee is on his way to have a look,he as only just cured all the airleaks before I took it back to the LPG knobhead and its come back with what we are assuming air leaks again.Think Im going to ram my fist down this LPG installers throat if it is airleaks.
Anybody in Gtr Manchester thinking of have a LPG conversion AVOID WORSLEY AUTOGAS
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Dont know if it will help but I have a sequential Koltec system on mine you can have a mooch at to compare plumbing etc, been on a good few years and never had a prob.
It was fitted by North Yorkshire Autogas who seemed ok, I seem to recall an outfit in Flinthshire who were reccomended to me who will inspect it for half an hours labour and fix within that if they can, or give you diagnosis and quote if they cant.
Good luck anyway
I would like to now get an independent inspection of this install,as if there is a fault on it I can get a claim going,just short of £2000 I paid for this and everytime I take it back to him he tells me the gas is fine,its other faults on the car
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Dont know if it will help but I have a sequential Koltec system on mine you can have a mooch at to compare plumbing etc, been on a good few years and never had a prob.
It was fitted by North Yorkshire Autogas who seemed ok, I seem to recall an outfit in Flinthshire who were reccomended to me who will inspect it for half an hours labour and fix within that if they can, or give you diagnosis and quote if they cant.
Good luck anyway
I would like to now get an independent inspection of this install,as if there is a fault on it I can get a claim going,just short of £2000 I paid for this and everytime I take it back to him he tells me the gas is fine,its other faults on the car
But beware... If anyone does any work on the LPG system it will make any potential claim void!
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Hope you get it sorted mate, Dont use your fist on that muppet you might injure yourself, Use a Bloody big Hammer. You must have a hell of a controll on your temper, I would have decked him by now. Hope you get it sorted.
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I am just leaving now Rob :y
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Dont know if it will help but I have a sequential Koltec system on mine you can have a mooch at to compare plumbing etc, been on a good few years and never had a prob.
It was fitted by North Yorkshire Autogas who seemed ok, I seem to recall an outfit in Flinthshire who were reccomended to me who will inspect it for half an hours labour and fix within that if they can, or give you diagnosis and quote if they cant.
Good luck anyway
If thats the one in Saltney, walking distance to me!
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I wonder how they're getting on with this one? I hope they can at least solve the petrol running.
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I wonder how they're getting on with this one? I hope they can at least solve the petrol running.
Yup it's running fine on petrol now, I'm just trying to see if I can decipher anything useful from some engine data we recorded after Daz stripped and rebuilt the inlets & plenum.
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I wonder how they're getting on with this one? I hope they can at least solve the petrol running.
Yup it's running fine on petrol now, I'm just trying to see if I can decipher anything useful from some engine data we recorded after Daz stripped and rebuilt the inlets & plenum.
I take it that means the muppet had created can air leak then?
Was the coolant feed to the Vaporiser correct?
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I wonder how they're getting on with this one? I hope they can at least solve the petrol running.
Yup it's running fine on petrol now, I'm just trying to see if I can decipher anything useful from some engine data we recorded after Daz stripped and rebuilt the inlets & plenum.
It is now running as it should on petrol :y
but wont run on LPG,I will be seeing a independant installer in the morning who as said he will run a diagnostic on the LPG.
Thanks to Loo-knee,Captain Zok and Tony for their help and assistance this evening,its much appreciated :y :y :y :y
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I wonder how they're getting on with this one? I hope they can at least solve the petrol running.
Yup it's running fine on petrol now, I'm just trying to see if I can decipher anything useful from some engine data we recorded after Daz stripped and rebuilt the inlets & plenum.
I take it that means the muppet had created can air leak then?
Was the coolant feed to the Vaporiser correct?
Yes it seems it was a air leak the rather muppet had created >:( >:(
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I wonder how they're getting on with this one? I hope they can at least solve the petrol running.
Yup it's running fine on petrol now, I'm just trying to see if I can decipher anything useful from some engine data we recorded after Daz stripped and rebuilt the inlets & plenum.
I take it that means the muppet had created can air leak then?
Was the coolant feed to the Vaporiser correct?
Two pipes run from vaporiser, one to the coolant bridge, the other to the HBV. We didn't know which way they should connect to the vaporiser (does it matter) so left them alone assuming the LPG guy will be able to check them tomorrow but the vaporiser is getting hot.
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Captain anything in the data recordings?
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Yeap seems to have been an air leak yet again after a visit to this "LPG Fitter" >:(
The two pipes from the Vapouriser are connected to the pipe going to the Coolant Bridge with a Jubilee Clip behind the HBV aswell as another join with another Jubilee Clip from the HBV also at the back so you have to dig to actually see them..
Hope the Gas Fitter tomorrow can sort out this Gas Problem once and for all as I don't fancy taking it to bits again :o
Good Luck Rob :y
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Yeap seems to have been an air leak yet again after a visit to this "LPG Fitter" >:(
The two pipes from the Vapouriser are connected to the pipe going to the Coolant Bridge with a Jubilee Clip behind the HBV aswell as another join with another Jubilee Clip from the HBV also at the back so you have to dig to actually see them..
Hope the Gas Fitter tomorrow can sort out this Gas Problem once and for all as I don't fancy taking it to bits again :o
Good Luck Rob :y
I hope so too because Im sick of you flashing outside my house to Dee ;D ;D ;D ;D
No on a serious note I think KNOBHEAD LPG INSTALLATIONS has been giving me the run around,well its finally got me breaked off I just hope this other guy can sort it and give me a engineers report then Im going to trading standards.
Thanks yet again for your help :y :y
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Sounds like the plumbing is OK, apart from being untidy!
Has it ever run properly on gas? Just wandering if something has been disturbed during routine maintenance or if there's something silly like lambda signals applied to the wrong bank.
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Sounds like the plumbing is OK, apart from being untidy!
Has it ever run properly on gas? Just wandering if something has been disturbed during routine maintenance or if there's something silly like lambda signals applied to the wrong bank.
Lambdas appear to be working but for 20 seconds or so revs drop and injector pulse goes all over the place to compensate I assume.
I've a csv file of data if anyone wants to take a look, views in excel or I assume any spreadsheet ap.
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This bloody gas man has swapped and changed his mind loads of times >:(
The last time it went funny sounds like when Rob left the scuttle panel of and it rained heavy. Rob thought that water had got into the dispack. But I reckon it sounds more like the appauling wiring got wet.
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This bloody gas man has swapped and changed his mind loads of times >:(
The last time it went funny sounds like when Rob left the scuttle panel of and it rained heavy. Rob thought that water had got into the dispack. But I reckon it sounds more like the appauling wiring got wet.
Aye it is a bit of a rats maze.
The professional way the ecu is just rattling around in the scuttle doesn't inspire confidence either.
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This bloody gas man has swapped and changed his mind loads of times >:(
The last time it went funny sounds like when Rob left the scuttle panel of and it rained heavy. Rob thought that water had got into the dispack. But I reckon it sounds more like the appauling wiring got wet.
Aye it is a bit of a rats maze.
The professional way the ecu is just rattling around in the scuttle doesn't inspire confidence either.
Nope definately not :-?
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Sounds like the plumbing is OK, apart from being untidy!
Has it ever run properly on gas? Just wandering if something has been disturbed during routine maintenance or if there's something silly like lamb signals applied to the wrong bank.
Its been back to the installer 3 or 4 times since install on 30/1,I've had bullsh*t like its DIS Pack or plugs or leads,so Daz changed them,went back still not running right on gas but fine on petrol,its drawing air and not firing on cylinder 3 was next load of 'dangle berries',got Daz to sort airleaks,changed DIS,plugs & leads again,running fine again on petrol.Took it back to gas man again next load of shite was coolant systems pressurizing so left it with him to sort gas,collected it this afternoon to be told "engine runs and fuels fine when cold,as engine gets hot the coolant system pressurizes and engine begins to idle erratically,possible cylinder head fault,cylinder block fault or both".
Drove 20miles home and car was again running as if drawing air(again).Daz came out yet again and stripped it down to check all gaskets were in place,put it back together and the erratic idle has gone,but will not run on gas but fine on petrol.All the work Daz as done tonight was done at Captain Zoks,where captain ran diagnostics and everything was fine.We ran the car for a good hour whilst there and everything is as it should be apart from the GAS!!!!!!!!
As for anything been disturbed yes ME ;D ;D
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Sounds like the plumbing is OK, apart from being untidy!
Has it ever run properly on gas? Just wandering if something has been disturbed during routine maintenance or if there's something silly like lamb signals applied to the wrong bank.
Its been back to the installer 3 or 4 times since install on 30/1,I've had bullsh*t like its DIS Pack or plugs or leads,so Daz changed them,went back still not running right on gas but fine on petrol,its drawing air and not firing on cylinder 3 was next load of 'dangle berries',got Daz to sort airleaks,changed DIS,plugs & leads again,running fine again on petrol.Took it back to gas man again next load of shite was coolant systems pressurizing so left it with him to sort gas,collected it this afternoon to be told "engine runs and fuels fine when cold,as engine gets hot the coolant system pressurizes and engine begins to idle erratically,possible cylinder head fault,cylinder block fault or both".
Drove 20miles home and car was again running as if drawing air(again).Daz came out yet again and stripped it down to check all gaskets were in place,put it back together and the erratic idle has gone,but will not run on gas but fine on petrol.All the work Daz as done tonight was done at Captain Zoks,where captain ran diagnostics and everything was fine.We ran the car for a good hour whilst there and everything is as it should be apart from the GAS!!!!!!!!
As for anything been disturbed yes ME ;D ;D
Daz if Ive missed anything add it please :y :y :y
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Sounds like the plumbing is OK, apart from being untidy!
Has it ever run properly on gas? Just wandering if something has been disturbed during routine maintenance or if there's something silly like lamb signals applied to the wrong bank.
Its been back to the installer 3 or 4 times since install on 30/1,I've had bullsh*t like its DIS Pack or plugs or leads,so Daz changed them,went back still not running right on gas but fine on petrol,its drawing air and not firing on cylinder 3 was next load of 'dangle berries',got Daz to sort airleaks,changed DIS,plugs & leads again,running fine again on petrol.Took it back to gas man again next load of shite was coolant systems pressurizing so left it with him to sort gas,collected it this afternoon to be told "engine runs and fuels fine when cold,as engine gets hot the coolant system pressurizes and engine begins to idle erratically,possible cylinder head fault,cylinder block fault or both".
Drove 20miles home and car was again running as if drawing air(again).Daz came out yet again and stripped it down to check all gaskets were in place,put it back together and the erratic idle has gone,but will not run on gas but fine on petrol.All the work Daz as done tonight was done at Captain Zoks,where captain ran diagnostics and everything was fine.We ran the car for a good hour whilst there and everything is as it should be apart from the GAS!!!!!!!!
As for anything been disturbed yes ME ;D ;D
Did the Gasman not say that the Thermostat was blocked shut, plus the Cylinder Head or Cylinder was cracked too :o
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Sounds like the plumbing is OK, apart from being untidy!
Has it ever run properly on gas? Just wandering if something has been disturbed during routine maintenance or if there's something silly like lamb signals applied to the wrong bank.
Its been back to the installer 3 or 4 times since install on 30/1,I've had bullsh*t like its DIS Pack or plugs or leads,so Daz changed them,went back still not running right on gas but fine on petrol,its drawing air and not firing on cylinder 3 was next load of 'dangle berries',got Daz to sort airleaks,changed DIS,plugs & leads again,running fine again on petrol.Took it back to gas man again next load of shite was coolant systems pressurizing so left it with him to sort gas,collected it this afternoon to be told "engine runs and fuels fine when cold,as engine gets hot the coolant system pressurizes and engine begins to idle erratically,possible cylinder head fault,cylinder block fault or both".
Drove 20miles home and car was again running as if drawing air(again).Daz came out yet again and stripped it down to check all gaskets were in place,put it back together and the erratic idle has gone,but will not run on gas but fine on petrol.All the work Daz as done tonight was done at Captain Zoks,where captain ran diagnostics and everything was fine.We ran the car for a good hour whilst there and everything is as it should be apart from the GAS!!!!!!!!
As for anything been disturbed yes ME ;D ;D
Did the Gasman not say that the Thermostat was blocked shut, plus the Cylinder Head or Cylinder was cracked too :o
Yes he did forgot that,cheers mate :y
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Proved the thermostat was working properly though tonight, and if the cylinder head was cracked your car would run terrible on petrol too...
He is a first class knobhead Rob >:(
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Before I forget here's the pictures of your thermostat.
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/PICT0017.jpg)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/PICT0018.jpg)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/PICT0019.jpg)
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/PICT0020.jpg)
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Proved the thermostat was working properly though tonight, and if the cylinder head was cracked your car would run terrible on petrol too...
He is a first class knobhead Rob >:(
I feel like jumping all over the weasley little tw*t but as Ive been told by her indoors its not the way to go,so take the proper route to start with
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::) ::) ::) Unfortunately I'm on my mobile so quoting and highlighting is a bit of a pain but I'll try to give some opinions...
Firstly, as you probably know, LPG needs a stronger spark than petrol to ignite so the HT system needs to be in top condition. That said, it is a common excuse used by the "professional" installer when a system isn't running properly!
As for the coolant system pressurizing... Of course it is, it's a rather pressurized system!
I would suggest you get onto Trading Standards first thing, before anyone touches anything on the LPG system! It sounds to me like you've got him under the sale of goods act as the system isn't working. Another thing, which TS may suggest, is contacting the kit supplier and having their engineer inspect the installation. The solution which will most likely be suggested is to have the whole system removed and the car made good (as much as possible) and you get a full refund! This may be the best option as you could then put your money into a DIY kit from the supplier we use, which is proven to work on the Miggy, and you'll end up saving yourself some money too.
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it sounds like this so called lpg installer is ripping him off .go to the trading standards and also find out if he is a lpga registered conversion specialist he should be registered with a proper certificate to install lpg .trading standards will look into that for you .he needs an installation sticking up is arse and ignighting .if you go onto the calor website that tells you about installers and the guidelines they have to go by good look guys :y
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it sounds like this so called lpg installer is ripping him off .go to the trading standards and also find out if he is a lpga registered conversion specialist he should be registered with a proper certificate to install lpg .trading standards will look into that for you .he needs an installation sticking up is arse and ignighting .if you go onto the calor website that tells you about installers and the guidelines they have to go by good look guys :y
Unfortunately he doesn't need to be LPGA registered to install LPG kits to cars :o :o :o
And as for going to the LPGA.... I wouldn't bother. They're more interested in getting the money from people registering than actually regulating fitters >:( >:( >:(
Interestingly though... I don't reckon that Thermostat housing's been off :-/ :-/ :-/ Bit hard to tell from the pictures but.......
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it sounds like this so called lpg installer is ripping him off .go to the trading standards and also find out if he is a lpga registered conversion specialist he should be registered with a proper certificate to install lpg .trading standards will look into that for you .he needs an installation sticking up is arse and ignighting .if you go onto the calor website that tells you about installers and the guidelines they have to go by good look guys :y
Unfortunately he doesn't need to be LPGA registered to install LPG kits to cars :o :o :o
And as for going to the LPGA.... I wouldn't bother. They're more interested in getting the money from people registering than actually regulating fitters >:( >:( >:(
Interestingly though... I don't reckon that Thermostat housing's been off :-/ :-/ :-/ Bit hard to tell from the pictures but.......
It does look like the thermostat has been off you may just be able to see the black sealer under the thermostat housing, sealer is oozing out from where the transfer pipe goes into the thermostat housing too. I dont think that he has replaced the thermostat though which he want £180 for doing >:(
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it sounds like this so called lpg installer is ripping him off .go to the trading standards and also find out if he is a lpga registered conversion specialist he should be registered with a proper certificate to install lpg .trading standards will look into that for you .he needs an installation sticking up is arse and ignighting .if you go onto the calor website that tells you about installers and the guidelines they have to go by good look guys :y
Unfortunately he doesn't need to be LPGA registered to install LPG kits to cars :o :o :o
And as for going to the LPGA.... I wouldn't bother. They're more interested in getting the money from people registering than actually regulating fitters >:( >:( >:(
Interestingly though... I don't reckon that Thermostat housing's been off :-/ :-/ :-/ Bit hard to tell from the pictures but.......
It does look like the thermostat has been off you may just be able to see the black sealer under the thermostat housing, sealer is oozing out from where the transfer pipe goes into the thermostat housing too. I dont think that he has replaced the thermostat though which he want £180 for doing >:(
Shouldn't have sealant on the transfer pipe to thermostat housing joint, there's two O rings on the pipe and a dab of vaseline is all that's required to help the transfer pipe to sit fully home.
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it sounds like this so called lpg installer is ripping him off .go to the trading standards and also find out if he is a lpga registered conversion specialist he should be registered with a proper certificate to install lpg .trading standards will look into that for you .he needs an installation sticking up is arse and ignighting .if you go onto the calor website that tells you about installers and the guidelines they have to go by good look guys :y
Unfortunately he doesn't need to be LPGA registered to install LPG kits to cars :o :o :o
And as for going to the LPGA.... I wouldn't bother. They're more interested in getting the money from people registering than actually regulating fitters >:( >:( >:(
Interestingly though... I don't reckon that Thermostat housing's been off :-/ :-/ :-/ Bit hard to tell from the pictures but.......
It does look like the thermostat has been off you may just be able to see the black sealer under the thermostat housing, sealer is oozing out from where the transfer pipe goes into the thermostat housing too. I dont think that he has replaced the thermostat though which he want £180 for doing >:(
break me... Was he wearing a striped suit and a mask? :o :o :o
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I have just had a phone call from Rob, who is at the Independant Gas Fitter's. He says there is a miss yet again on both Petrol & Gas it is more noticeable on gas. Gas Fitter says through experiance that none genuine Dispacks dont produce a good enough spark...
Yet last night again the car was not missing at all and yet today it is....
The Gas Fitter also said that the gas mixture is right!
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I know this is a long shot but... Is it worth substituting the dis pack for a "known good" one just to try? :-/ :-/ :-/
The fact that it's more noticeable on LPG does fit with a weakness in the HT side.
It seems strange that this intermittent misfire keeps coming back.
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I know this is a long shot but... Is it worth substituting the dis pack for a "known good" one just to try? :-/ :-/ :-/
The fact that it's more noticeable on LPG does fit with a weakness in the HT side.
It seems strange that this intermittent misfire keeps coming back.
To put you in the picture.
Rob went to the York Meet where his spark was checked with a tool Mark DTM had. Each lead was firing 40,000 volts, that was with a know good Vauxhall Dispack on that, Rob had off me. But the car when on tick over was running rough, yet when he was coming up the motorway he was going 80mph with no problems. So it was said that there must be an airleak. Pete stripped the car and found that the bottom inlet plate had loads of bathroom sealer all around the gasket, which had actually reacted to the gasket. No-one had a spare so it had to have cam cover sealer on until Rob could get a new gasket from Vauxhall.
Rob stripped the car down and put some different sealer on as he needed the car for work, then it started to rain so went in leaving the scuttle panel off. When he had put the car all back together it was still the same.
So he got a new seal from Vauxhall. We went up to fit it. Rob was saying he wanted a new dispack and leads as he thought water would have got into the dispack. I did not think so as the leads go over the dispack. Anyway Rob bought a new dispack off ebay which we fitted and the leads to start the car which made no difference what so ever.
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I know this is a long shot but... Is it worth substituting the dis pack for a "known good" one just to try? :-/ :-/ :-/
The fact that it's more noticeable on LPG does fit with a weakness in the HT side.
It seems strange that this intermittent misfire keeps coming back.
To put you in the picture.
Rob went to the York Meet where his spark was checked with a tool Mark DTM had. Each lead was firing 40,000 volts, that was with a know good Vauxhall Dispack on that, Rob had off me. But the car when on tick over was running rough, yet when he was coming up the motorway he was going 80mph with no problems. So it was said that there must be an airleak. Pete stripped the car and found that the bottom inlet plate had loads of bathroom sealer all around the gasket, which had actually reacted to the gasket. No-one had a spare so it had to have cam cover sealer on until Rob could get a new gasket from Vauxhall.
Rob stripped the car down and put some different sealer on as he needed the car for work, then it started to rain so went in leaving the scuttle panel off. When he had put the car all back together it was still the same.
So he got a new seal from Vauxhall. We went up to fit it. Rob was saying he wanted a new dispack and leads as he thought water would have got into the dispack. I did not think so as the leads go over the dispack. Anyway Rob bought a new dispack off ebay which we fitted and the leads to start the car which made no difference what so ever.
Right... So reading this there was nothing noticeably wrong with the first Dispack, Rob just chanced it as a precaution :question :question In fact, it was tested OK by MDTM at York but the car was still missing. Petrol and gas or just Petrol?
Are there any codes coming up now when it's missing?
I'm just wandering if Rob has been unlucky and got a faulty plug which keeps breaking down... Not unheard of for a brand new item to be faulty and, sorry to repeat myself (!), if there is any fault whatsoever on the HT side it will become much more apparent when running LPG as it needs more oomph to burn :-/ :-/
That said, I wouldn't encourage random part replacement as it just introduces a load of unknowns ::) ::)
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Right just got back from independent gas installer,the install is correct although looks like a schoolboy install,whilst with this installer the car appeard to miss on both petrol and gas more prominent on gas.
On petrol intergrators read
1) 150 average
2) 128 average
On gas intergrators read
1) 130 average
2) 110 average
He concluded that the gas was right but car appears to have a ignition fault.
We have changed numerous thing numerous times,anyone got any advice?
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Right just got back from independent gas installer,the install is correct although looks like a schoolboy install,whilst with this installer the car appeard to miss on both petrol and gas more prominent on gas.
On petrol intergrators read
1) 150 average
2) 128 average
On gas intergrators read
1) 130 average
2) 110 average
He concluded that the gas was right but car appears to have a ignition fault.
We have changed numerous thing numerous times,anyone got any advice?
Yep... Those figures seem reasonable :y :y :y
Right, I've been bouncing ideas towards LK whilst you were at the fitters so check through some of the posts above and we'll see what we can work out :y :y :y
At least you have some good news, in that the LPG figures seem about right. Now it's just a case of starting from basics and working through :y :y :y
Did you have your old Dispack on after replacing the inlet manifold leak? If not then I'd say first port of call should be to revert to a "known good" Dispack (the one from Daz which was tested at York) and start from there. The fact it's missing on both fuels but more on LPG does point me towards an HT Fault :y :y
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Right just got back from independent gas installer,the install is correct although looks like a schoolboy install,whilst with this installer the car appeard to miss on both petrol and gas more prominent on gas.
On petrol intergrators read
1) 150 average
2) 128 average
On gas intergrators read
1) 130 average
2) 110 average
He concluded that the gas was right but car appears to have a ignition fault.
We have changed numerous thing numerous times,anyone got any advice?
Yep... Those figures seem reasonable :y :y :y
Right, I've been bouncing ideas towards LK whilst you were at the fitters so check through some of the posts above and we'll see what we can work out :y :y :y
At least you have some good news, in that the LPG figures seem about right. Now it's just a case of starting from basics and working through :y :y :y
Did you have your old Dispack on after replacing the inlet manifold leak? If not then I'd say first port of call should be to revert to a "known good" Dispack (the one from Daz which was tested at York) and start from there. The fact it's missing on both fuels but more on LPG does point me towards an HT Fault :y :y
Yes the old Dis pack was on after repairing the inlet leak but it was still playing up,which gave me the thought of the rain maybe got to it when scuttle was off,which is why I bought a aftermarket Dis and leads.LK and Captain Zok got it running right on petrol last night no missing or anything,but would not run on gas.I went to this independent installer this morning on petrol as the gas was not working last night so never bothered trying it,he turned the gas on and it was running but missing.The car has Vectra cam covers on(not good I know)and as you look into the plug wells the plugs seem to be offset,could it be that the HT leads are not sit on the plugs right,therefore not giving a full strength spark? just a thought :y :y
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Ok not knowing a lot about interpreting live data I've managed to graph the integrator values from last night after Daz rebuilt it.
(http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m302/CaptainZok/integrator_graph.jpg)
I'm assuming the big dip is when it was switched to gas but should sensor 1 be flatlining at 154 as it is most of the time?
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I don't know a lot about interpreting that data either but I would have expected bot Lambda readings to fluctuate somewhat :-/ :-/
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I wonder how they're getting on with this one? I hope they can at least solve the petrol running.
Yup it's running fine on petrol now, I'm just trying to see if I can decipher anything useful from some engine data we recorded after Daz stripped and rebuilt the inlets & plenum.
I take it that means the muppet had created can air leak then?
Was the coolant feed to the Vaporiser correct?
Two pipes run from vaporiser, one to the coolant bridge, the other to the HBV. We didn't know which way they should connect to the vaporiser (does it matter) so left them alone assuming the LPG guy will be able to check them tomorrow but the vaporiser is getting hot.
That will be fine
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This bloody gas man has swapped and changed his mind loads of times >:(
The last time it went funny sounds like when Rob left the scuttle panel of and it rained heavy. Rob thought that water had got into the dispack. But I reckon it sounds more like the appauling wiring got wet.
Aye it is a bit of a rats maze.
The professional way the ecu is just rattling around in the scuttle doesn't inspire confidence either.
That is where mine is - on a custom GRP plate.
Scuttle drains - are they clear?
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try Little St garage ,bolton was doing gas years ago ,might be best idea give it too someone who nows what their doing ,if need anything i,m in wigan.cheers deecee
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This bloody gas man has swapped and changed his mind loads of times >:(
The last time it went funny sounds like when Rob left the scuttle panel of and it rained heavy. Rob thought that water had got into the dispack. But I reckon it sounds more like the appauling wiring got wet.
Aye it is a bit of a rats maze.
The professional way the ecu is just rattling around in the scuttle doesn't inspire confidence either.
That is where mine is - on a custom GRP plate.
Scuttle drains - are they clear?
Not just flopping about in the scuttle then, you amateur Mr Imber. ;D ;D
Yes the scuttle drain must be clear otherwise the gas ECU would be needing an aqualung.
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I just can't believe these "Professionals" get away with it >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
TBH Rob I'm at a bit of a loss but I will say that it doesn't sound like it is purely the LPG causing the problem....... Still think it's HT related personally though :-/ :-/ :-/
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I just can't believe these "Professionals" get away with it >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
TBH Rob I'm at a bit of a loss but I will say that it doesn't sound like it is purely the LPG causing the problem....... Still think it's HT related personally though :-/ :-/ :-/
We are now thinking its the flatline lambda,as it runs fine until it warms up then the idle gets erratic.Captain Zok compared data from mine and data from his and the lambda was the only difference,so Daz is going to give that a go so heres hoping :-/ :-/
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I just can't believe these "Professionals" get away with it >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
TBH Rob I'm at a bit of a loss but I will say that it doesn't sound like it is purely the LPG causing the problem....... Still think it's HT related personally though :-/ :-/ :-/
We are now thinking its the flatline lambda,as it runs fine until it warms up then the idle gets erratic.Captain Zok compared data from mine and data from his and the lambda was the only difference,so Daz is going to give that a go so heres hoping :-/ :-/
Ohhh.... Hang on a minute! I didn't know that! (Might be I didn't read the posts properly in the middle of the night ::) ::))
I've been sorting the Sister-in-Laws Passat and that had exactly the same problem... Running perfect when cold but missing when hot. Her Cats were completely breaked... I mean really bad, they were blowing the precious metal out of the tailpipes :o :o :o
Give the Cats a shake and see if they rattle!
But the Lambda sounds possible... Perhaps it's under/over fuelling one bank when closed loop :-? :-?
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I just can't believe these "Professionals" get away with it >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
TBH Rob I'm at a bit of a loss but I will say that it doesn't sound like it is purely the LPG causing the problem....... Still think it's HT related personally though :-/ :-/ :-/
We are now thinking its the flatline lambda,as it runs fine until it warms up then the idle gets erratic.Captain Zok compared data from mine and data from his and the lambda was the only difference,so Daz is going to give that a go so heres hoping :-/ :-/
Ohhh.... Hang on a minute! I didn't know that! (Might be I didn't read the posts properly in the middle of the night ::) ::))
I've been sorting the Sister-in-Laws Passat and that had exactly the same problem... Running perfect when cold but missing when hot. Her Cats were completely breaked... I mean really bad, they were blowing the precious metal out of the tailpipes :o :o :o
Give the Cats a shake and see if they rattle!
But the Lambda sounds possible... Perhaps it's under/over fuelling one bank when closed loop :-? :-?
rather hope the cats are ok,just had exhaust replaced,2 middle and backbox 2 week ago,I did give cats a bang whilst up on ramps and no rattles.So hoping its the lambda as we have virtually changed half the bloody parts under the bonnet,failing that might spend the best 20p I will of spent in a while on a box of "Englands Glory" ;D ;D ;D
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I just can't believe these "Professionals" get away with it >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
TBH Rob I'm at a bit of a loss but I will say that it doesn't sound like it is purely the LPG causing the problem....... Still think it's HT related personally though :-/ :-/ :-/
We are now thinking its the flatline lambda,as it runs fine until it warms up then the idle gets erratic.Captain Zok compared data from mine and data from his and the lambda was the only difference,so Daz is going to give that a go so heres hoping :-/ :-/
Ohhh.... Hang on a minute! I didn't know that! (Might be I didn't read the posts properly in the middle of the night ::) ::))
I've been sorting the Sister-in-Laws Passat and that had exactly the same problem... Running perfect when cold but missing when hot. Her Cats were completely breaked... I mean really bad, they were blowing the precious metal out of the tailpipes :o :o :o
Give the Cats a shake and see if they rattle!
But the Lambda sounds possible... Perhaps it's under/over fuelling one bank when closed loop :-? :-?
rather hope the cats are ok,just had exhaust replaced,2 middle and backbox 2 week ago,I did give cats a bang whilst up on ramps and no rattles.So hoping its the lambda as we have virtually changed half the bloody parts under the bonnet,failing that might spend the best 20p I will of spent in a while on a box of "Englands Glory" ;D ;D ;D
Can't say for an Omega with its two lambdas, but when the lambda failed on my Senator, it was as though I had an elastic throttle cable. OK when cold, but when warm, a push of the accelerator wouldn't do anything to start with, the car then slowly caught up with what the accelerator pedal was doing, and then you'd be backing off the accelerator while the car was getting faster. :-? :-?
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I just can't believe these "Professionals" get away with it >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
TBH Rob I'm at a bit of a loss but I will say that it doesn't sound like it is purely the LPG causing the problem....... Still think it's HT related personally though :-/ :-/ :-/
We are now thinking its the flatline lambda,as it runs fine until it warms up then the idle gets erratic.Captain Zok compared data from mine and data from his and the lambda was the only difference,so Daz is going to give that a go so heres hoping :-/ :-/
Ohhh.... Hang on a minute! I didn't know that! (Might be I didn't read the posts properly in the middle of the night ::) ::))
I've been sorting the Sister-in-Laws Passat and that had exactly the same problem... Running perfect when cold but missing when hot. Her Cats were completely breaked... I mean really bad, they were blowing the precious metal out of the tailpipes :o :o :o
Give the Cats a shake and see if they rattle!
But the Lambda sounds possible... Perhaps it's under/over fuelling one bank when closed loop :-? :-?
rather hope the cats are ok,just had exhaust replaced,2 middle and backbox 2 week ago,I did give cats a bang whilst up on ramps and no rattles.So hoping its the lambda as we have virtually changed half the bloody parts under the bonnet,failing that might spend the best 20p I will of spent in a while on a box of "Englands Glory" ;D ;D ;D
Can't say for an Omega with its two lambdas, but when the lambda failed on my Senator, it was as though I had an elastic throttle cable. OK when cold, but when warm, a push of the accelerator wouldn't do anything to start with, the car then slowly caught up with what the accelerator pedal was doing, and then you'd be backing off the accelerator while the car was getting faster. :-? :-?
not like that though Andy,but Daz has tried allsorts apart from the lambdas and the live data recordings captain did show a flatline lambda intergrator,I hope this is it,we will find out on Weds when Daz comes up again :y :y
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Well the lambda sensors have been changed and that did not resolve the issue,intergrator 1 is still flatlining at 154.We also changed plugs which made no difference.So thats 3 dis packs,3 sets of leads,3 sets of plugs,3 ICVs and still got this issue,could it possibly be a fault within the ECU.I'm getting to the point where I feel like just getting rid of the bloody thing anybody else got any suggestions before me and omega part company
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Well the lambda sensors have been changed and that did not resolve the issue,intergrator 1 is still flatlining at 154.We also changed plugs which made no difference.So thats 3 dis packs,3 sets of leads,3 sets of plugs,3 ICVs and still got this issue,could it possibly be a fault within the ECU.I'm getting to the point where I feel like just getting rid of the bloody thing anybody else got any suggestions before me and omega part company
I'm at a loss TBH Rob :-[ :-[ :-[
I don't even think seeing it would make a huge difference after Daz has given it his all and it's been checked by the LPG specialist :-/ :-/ :-/
Can you just confirm that it plays up on both fuels but is more noticeable on LPG? If so, it still points towards an ignition (HT) problem to me
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Well the lambda sensors have been changed and that did not resolve the issue,intergrator 1 is still flatlining at 154.We also changed plugs which made no difference.So thats 3 dis packs,3 sets of leads,3 sets of plugs,3 ICVs and still got this issue,could it possibly be a fault within the ECU.I'm getting to the point where I feel like just getting rid of the bloody thing anybody else got any suggestions before me and omega part company
I'm at a loss TBH Rob :-[ :-[ :-[
I don't even think seeing it would make a huge difference after Daz has given it his all and it's been checked by the LPG specialist :-/ :-/ :-/
Can you just confirm that it plays up on both fuels but is more noticeable on LPG? If so, it still points towards an ignition (HT) problem to me
Hi Paul can confirm it does play up on both fuels but is more noticeable on lpg
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Well the lambda sensors have been changed and that did not resolve the issue,intergrator 1 is still flatlining at 154.We also changed plugs which made no difference.So thats 3 dis packs,3 sets of leads,3 sets of plugs,3 ICVs and still got this issue,could it possibly be a fault within the ECU.I'm getting to the point where I feel like just getting rid of the bloody thing anybody else got any suggestions before me and omega part company
I'm at a loss TBH Rob :-[ :-[ :-[
I don't even think seeing it would make a huge difference after Daz has given it his all and it's been checked by the LPG specialist :-/ :-/ :-/
Can you just confirm that it plays up on both fuels but is more noticeable on LPG? If so, it still points towards an ignition (HT) problem to me
Hi Paul can confirm it does play up on both fuels but is more noticeable on lpg
This does point towards an ignition fault, which is at least a start, but I can't see what as you've now replaced everything I can think of (more then once!) :-/ :-/ :-/
I assume you don't have any fault codes showing?
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No falt codes present,I am thinking because it has Vectra covers on which are deeper than omega covers that the plug leads are not sitting on the plugs fully which is causing a loss of spark at the plugs,think the way Im going is to get the cam covers changed.What do you think Paul could this be a possibility? :y :y
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No falt codes present,I am thinking because it has Vectra covers on which are deeper than omega covers that the plug leads are not sitting on the plugs fully which is causing a loss of spark at the plugs,think the way Im going is to get the cam covers changed.What do you think Paul could this be a possibility? :y :y
I'd have thought you'd have noticed that the leads weren't sitting on the plugs properly TBH but you have nothing to lose by trying :-/ :-/ :-/
Thinking about it though... I wonder if they're sitting reasonably well when cold but the little bit of expansion when the engine warms up is causing it :-? :-? :-?
Like I say, it gives all the pointers towards an HT fault and the fact there aren't any fault codes does back that up somewhat :-/ :-/
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No falt codes present,I am thinking because it has Vectra covers on which are deeper than omega covers that the plug leads are not sitting on the plugs fully which is causing a loss of spark at the plugs,think the way Im going is to get the cam covers changed.What do you think Paul could this be a possibility? :y :y
I'd have thought you'd have noticed that the leads weren't sitting on the plugs properly TBH but you have nothing to lose by trying :-/ :-/ :-/
Thinking about it though... I wonder if they're sitting reasonably well when cold but the little bit of expansion when the engine warms up is causing it :-? :-? :-?
Like I say, it gives all the pointers towards an HT fault and the fact there aren't any fault codes does back that up somewhat :-/ :-/
TBH Daz did mention that the plugs were not central to the cam covers holes 1st time he changed plugs and leads.The spark was checked at York by Mark,all showed 40000 volts,but that was with the plug leads off the plugs,which has me thinking when we put leads back on the plugs they maybe not sitting snuggly to the plug due to the difference in depth of cam covers,if that makes sense(but Im not a mechanically minded person)
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No falt codes present,I am thinking because it has Vectra covers on which are deeper than omega covers that the plug leads are not sitting on the plugs fully which is causing a loss of spark at the plugs,think the way Im going is to get the cam covers changed.What do you think Paul could this be a possibility? :y :y
I'd have thought you'd have noticed that the leads weren't sitting on the plugs properly TBH but you have nothing to lose by trying :-/ :-/ :-/
Thinking about it though... I wonder if they're sitting reasonably well when cold but the little bit of expansion when the engine warms up is causing it :-? :-? :-?
Like I say, it gives all the pointers towards an HT fault and the fact there aren't any fault codes does back that up somewhat :-/ :-/
TBH Daz did mention that the plugs were not central to the cam covers holes 1st time he changed plugs and leads.The spark was checked at York by Mark,all showed 40000 volts,but that was with the plug leads off the plugs,which has me thinking when we put leads back on the plugs they maybe not sitting snuggly to the plug due to the difference in depth of cam covers,if that makes sense(but Im not a mechanically minded person)
Makes perfect sense but I'm just not sure it will solve the problem :-/ :-/ :-/
At the end of the day you have nothing to lose... Return it to standard and see what happens :y :y :y
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No falt codes present,I am thinking because it has Vectra covers on which are deeper than omega covers that the plug leads are not sitting on the plugs fully which is causing a loss of spark at the plugs,think the way Im going is to get the cam covers changed.What do you think Paul could this be a possibility? :y :y
I'd have thought you'd have noticed that the leads weren't sitting on the plugs properly TBH but you have nothing to lose by trying :-/ :-/ :-/
Thinking about it though... I wonder if they're sitting reasonably well when cold but the little bit of expansion when the engine warms up is causing it :-? :-? :-?
Like I say, it gives all the pointers towards an HT fault and the fact there aren't any fault codes does back that up somewhat :-/ :-/
TBH Daz did mention that the plugs were not central to the cam covers holes 1st time he changed plugs and leads.The spark was checked at York by Mark,all showed 40000 volts,but that was with the plug leads off the plugs,which has me thinking when we put leads back on the plugs they maybe not sitting snuggly to the plug due to the difference in depth of cam covers,if that makes sense(but Im not a mechanically minded person)
Makes perfect sense but I'm just not sure it will solve the problem :-/ :-/ :-/
At the end of the day you have nothing to lose... Return it to standard and see what happens :y :y :y
I know you are say HT prob but where else can we go,its hads 3 different dis packs,3 different set of leads,3 sets of plugs which as far as we are aware leaves only the bloody cam covers which as they are vectra the left bank is on the right and right on the left.Any ideas will be taken seriously :y :y
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At last got the car sorted,I got the vectra cam covers replaced with omega cam covers,this rectified the missing I had been experiancing,but would not run on gas,so went to see the independent installer who told me there was a couple of sticky gas injectors and adviced me to go back to the original installer.Went to see this yanker this morning and was still trying to tell me it was the car and nothing to do with the gas,I lost it at this point and gave him both barrells "theres a rather issue with sticky injectors I've had it looked at by someone else,get them sorted now"!!!!!.Off he scarpered rather sheepishly in to his unit and returned with 3 brand new injectors and within 10-15 mins job was done,he then asked if I was happy which I replied no I now want the gas ecu securing as you left it loose in the scuttle near the pollen filter,and he promptly went and got one of his boys to secure the ecu.Not yet happy I then started about the thermostat he charged me for last week and never did(think he was shocked to see I had photos of the so called new thermostat)to cut a long story short got my money back off the robbing barsteward.All before 11am well chuffed.
Seems the main cause of the HT issue was the bloody vectra cam cover.
Thanks to everyone who gave advice and assistance.
:y :y :y :y :y
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Nice one Rob, you should get some free motoring at long last.
Excellent result but such a shame it had to come after all this >:(
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Not the way I wanted to have to be to get it sorted,but it did the trick,should of turned barsteward on him months ago.Think he was in his office popping valium by the time I left lol ;D ;D
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Very good result :y
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Phew, long job but it came right in the end. :y :y
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Phew, long job but it came right in the end. :y :y
Not half "Captain" :y :y :y
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Glad it's all sorted now Rob... I was only saying to SWMBO last night I wondered how it was going! Was even telling her I might have to make a trip up to have a look at it for you :y :y :y
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A very satisfactory result and great effort by all concerned :y :y A clear illustration of this forum at its very best :y :y
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A very satisfactory result and great effort by all concerned :y :y A clear illustration of this forum at its very best :y :y
Took a lot of head scratching and a very long phone call discussing it but.... The result is worth it :y :y :y :y
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Glad you got it sorted Rob. Well done to all concerned.