Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Martin_1962 on 05 June 2009, 18:44:37
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HELP :'(
I need an expert to help me
Car is running on 3 cylinders and a replacement coil pack has not helped.
246 bank is misfiring 0300 0302 0304 0306
Occasionally it will rev high with a lot of throttle then it will struggle to idle.
It was running fine until 08:30 yesterday when it decided to get very noisy, then shut off then restarted on 3
I haven't even got the power to reverse out of my parking space.
I am completely out of ideas and I just don't know what to do.
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Cam timing is fine.
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0300 = Multiple misfires detected
0302 = Cylinder 2 misfire
0304 = Cylinder 4 misfire
0306 = Cylinder 6 misfire
I've read a couple of other posts you've made about this issue and what you've done so far....next thing on the list has to be a compression test (especially as you said it got noisy before the fault appeared).
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0300 = Multiple misfires detected
0302 = Cylinder 2 misfire
0304 = Cylinder 4 misfire
0306 = Cylinder 6 misfire
I've read a couple of other posts you've made about this issue and what you've done so far....next thing on the list has to be a compression test (especially as you said it got noisy before the fault appeared).
I'll see if I can find it, any idea what pressure they should be?
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any idea what pressure they should be?
Off the top of my head, absolutely no idea at all Martin.
You definately want to see in excess of 100psi though, and I'd guess the true figure you want to see is probably around 130psi.
Do a test on cylinder number 1 as you know that works, and use that reading as a reference point.
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Will try tomorrow if not raining
Will look for pressure tester quite soon though
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1 150
2 very little max 80
3 140
4 eff all
5 150
6 can't get to plug
[size=24]HELP![/size]
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That tells you all you need to know then Martin.
Whatever has happened, you have lost compression on the 2,4,6 bank for some reason.
Next step is head off to have a looksee.
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What a b*gg*r
Looks like I need to lift 246 again
I am so peed off I could set fire to it.
Even thinking now of breaking it. :'(
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What a b*gg*r
Looks like I need to lift 246 again
I am so peed off I could set fire to it.
Even thinking now of breaking it. :'(
You say cam timing is fine?
You fitted the cam sprockets correctly?
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What a b*gg*r
Looks like I need to lift 246 again
I am so peed off I could set fire to it.
Even thinking now of breaking it. :'(
was this the bank where the gasket was put on the wrong way round? If so have you replaced the gasket?
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What a b*gg*r
Looks like I need to lift 246 again
I am so peed off I could set fire to it.
Even thinking now of breaking it. :'(
You say cam timing is fine?
You fitted the cam sprockets correctly?
Yes they were still tight
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What a b*gg*r
Looks like I need to lift 246 again
I am so peed off I could set fire to it.
Even thinking now of breaking it. :'(
was this the bank where the gasket was put on the wrong way round? If so have you replaced the gasket?
Bad gasket is on 135
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If theres no compression on that bank then I would have thought a load of bent valves.Timing slipped?,broken camshaft? :-/
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check vour timing the old fashioned way before u lift your haed off. find tdc on each bank and watch the lifters as they rock. i had a daf engine once that craushed a woodruff key enough to put the timing out by 10deg.
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If theres no compression on that bank then I would have thought a load of bent valves.Timing slipped?,broken camshaft? :-/
I hope not - they cost enough
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Tomorrow I am going to strip (if dry)
Then I will know what is what
But very odd what happened
I was expecting 135 to leak but not 246 to conk out
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Tomorrow I am going to strip (if dry)
Then I will know what is what
But very odd what happened
I was expecting 135 to leak but not 246 to conk out
tomorrow is another day , go get some rest :y
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Only thing I can think of is that the timing has slipped (cam has rotated on the sprocket?). Can't remember how the cams are keyed to the sprockets on this engine. There's a dowel between them IIRC? Possible it was left out during the cam swap?
Could the lifters have pumped up so hard that the valves are not closing? Excessive oil pressure perhaps? If so why only one bank?
Slipped cam timing seems the most likely explanation I'm afraid. :'(
Kevin
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Locating pin on cam 3 has snapped >:( :( :'(
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The valves are still sealing
They don't look bent
Will pop out one and check
Looks like I was VERY lucky
Small marks on the piston heads
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The valves are still sealing
They don't look bent
Will pop out one and check
Looks like I was VERY lucky
Small marks on the piston heads
Wouldn't explain the lack of compression...
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The valves are still sealing
They don't look bent
Will pop out one and check
Looks like I was VERY lucky
Small marks on the piston heads
Wouldn't explain the lack of compression...
If the pin hadn't located between the cam & its pulley then the cam wouldn't have been turning, hence no compression! Obvioulsy depends where the cam had parked itself as to whether there would be bent valves.
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The valves are still sealing
They don't look bent
Will pop out one and check
Looks like I was VERY lucky
Small marks on the piston heads
The marks on the crown of the pistons, along with your confirmation of a "noise" means (unfortunately) there was very much definately some contact.
Although the valves may look as though they are still seating properly, the only definitive test you can do (other than removing the actual valves) is to invert the head (balance it so it is flat) and pour a small amount of petrol in to each chamber with all the valves closed.
If the fluid level hasn't dropped after (say) 30 minutes, then you have more than likely got away with it.
Good luck :y
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......
Good luck :y
Sounds like Martin could do with a bit more help than luck ..... maybe a miracle! ::) :y :y :y :y
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I removed one valve - no runout
I left petrol in them for about 1/4 hour and no drop
I think they just slipped timing
The cam was turning
May be it was opening 180 out so during power
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The valves are still sealing
They don't look bent
Will pop out one and check
Looks like I was VERY lucky
Small marks on the piston heads
The marks on the crown of the pistons, along with your confirmation of a "noise" means (unfortunately) there was very much definately some contact.
Although the valves may look as though they are still seating properly, the only definitive test you can do (other than removing the actual valves) is to invert the head (balance it so it is flat) and pour a small amount of petrol in to each chamber with all the valves closed.
If the fluid level hasn't dropped after (say) 30 minutes, then you have more than likely got away with it.
Good luck :y
I think there was about 4 or 5 hits per valve
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The valves are still sealing
They don't look bent
Will pop out one and check
Looks like I was VERY lucky
Small marks on the piston heads
Wouldn't explain the lack of compression...
Being 180 out would, I noticed when dismanteling that 3 was ahead of 4
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The valves are still sealing
They don't look bent
Will pop out one and check
Looks like I was VERY lucky
Small marks on the piston heads
The marks on the crown of the pistons, along with your confirmation of a "noise" means (unfortunately) there was very much definately some contact.
Although the valves may look as though they are still seating properly, the only definitive test you can do (other than removing the actual valves) is to invert the head (balance it so it is flat) and pour a small amount of petrol in to each chamber with all the valves closed.
If the fluid level hasn't dropped after (say) 30 minutes, then you have more than likely got away with it.
Good luck :y
As a tip, paraffin tends to work better, as petrol evapourates a bit quicker :y
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Well 15 minutes and it was OK
Just going to seal the cam cover now
May not do much more as I am feeling crap
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happy to hear no serious damage involved :y
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Head on, cam cover on, inlets on
Need to do cam belt in morning, aux belt, bagpipes, plenum, exhaust
And hope for best
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Do you know the root cause of the problem? Why did the pin snap? Any sign that the cam has siezed in one of its' journals perhaps?
Kevin
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I hope your motor is OK mate, thinking about it the only way the valves could have survived is because they must have been nudging the cam back and forth as the pistons smacked them because the cam wasnt being 'held' by the pulley.
As has been mentioned you must find the root cause ,and also check the other 3. and if you are not using new cam bolts and torqueing +angle tightening them, make sure they are loctited and tightened up to buggery :y
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glad to her no seriouse damage has been caused! what would of caused the pin to snap?
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glad to her no seriouse damage has been caused! what would of caused the pin to snap?
It didn't snap. apparently it slid into the cam pulley groove
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what would of caused that? i'm not very good with machanics lol!
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what would of caused that? i'm not very good with machanics lol!
f*ck nose
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;D
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;D ;D
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Do you know the root cause of the problem? Why did the pin snap? Any sign that the cam has siezed in one of its' journals perhaps?
Kevin
Didn't snap - it fell out.
Possibly dismantled too many times, I have now swapped 3 & 4 pulleys as both were a bit sloppy.
Just need to scrape and repaint
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WIll be torquing to about 50 60 nm - can't remember what it should be OTTOMH
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Do you know the root cause of the problem? Why did the pin snap? Any sign that the cam has siezed in one of its' journals perhaps?
Kevin
Didn't snap - it fell out.
Possibly dismantled too many times, I have now swapped 3 & 4 pulleys as both were a bit sloppy.
Just need to scrape and repaint
Scrape and repaint???
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WIll be torquing to about 50 60 nm - can't remember what it should be OTTOMH
Camshaft bearing caps to cylinder head 8
Camshaft sprocket to camshaft 50 + 60° + 15° 1
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1156365122
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Do you know the root cause of the problem? Why did the pin snap? Any sign that the cam has siezed in one of its' journals perhaps?
Kevin
Didn't snap - it fell out.
Possibly dismantled too many times, I have now swapped 3 & 4 pulleys as both were a bit sloppy.
Just need to scrape and repaint
Scrape and repaint???
Scrapeold white paint off an put new white paint in on the marker positions
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Pulleys torqued but not angle tightened (old bolts), new positions marked, cam belt remarked and waiting to dry.
Baseplate torqued
Just going to tape some more charity bags together for rain protection
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Locating pin on cam 3 has snapped >:( :( :'(
Why......they dont snap for no reason so whats the cause?
Were the cam bearings all fitted correctly?
No oil ways blocked are T vents missing?
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Not snapped - fell out
Refitted OK
Cam belt refitted
Cam belt cover done
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Pulleys torqued but not angle tightened (old bolts), new positions marked, cam belt remarked and waiting to dry.
Baseplate torqued
Just going to tape some more charity bags together for rain protection
I wouldn't leave them at just 50nm. That's not enough. If concerned about re-use perhaps omit the final stage of angle tightening but the 50nm will just be to ensure they are making contact.
Kevin
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DOne a bit more
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I drained about 2 litres of rain water out and a litre of oil after it.
On a test drive ran oin 6 but kept conking, EML light, emmisions light and TC light. Had to leep resetting the engine to pull away.
First stop found a vac hose had come off while refitting, then when I got home, wet DBW connector and slightly loose plenum.
Anyway some switch cleaner and a quick nip wnet for a test drive.
Ran fine, but a nob in a common rail TD Mondea pulled out on a RB then started to hammer it (new and very smokey). I had to back off as traffic coming the other way meant I couldn't overtake!
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I drained about 2 litres of rain water out and a litre of oil after it.
On a test drive ran oin 6 but kept conking, EML light, emmisions light and TC light. Had to leep resetting the engine to pull away.
First stop found a vac hose had come off while refitting, then when I got home, wet DBW connector and slightly loose plenum.
Anyway some switch cleaner and a quick nip wnet for a test drive.
Ran fine, but a nob in a common rail TD Mondea pulled out on a RB then started to hammer it (new and very smokey). I had to back off as traffic coming the other way meant I couldn't overtake!
good news.. :y
you will have time to race later ;D so dont hurry :y
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You're a lucky man Martin!
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You're a lucky man Martin!
I had to have some luck for a change
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Remind me to bring the Opelscanner the next time I see you and we can reset all the stored codes.
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Think of the fuel that you'll save with only 50% of the engine firing ;D ;D
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Think of the fuel that you'll save with only 50% of the engine firing ;D ;D
It was no better than on 6
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You should still angle tighten the cam bolts as per new ones.
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You should still angle tighten the cam bolts as per new ones.
I just did the 60
When I haev changed the 135 gasket (again) I wil fit new cam bolts. Especially as I will be towing in 5 or 6 weeks