Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: ScottieMV6 on 10 August 2009, 15:12:10
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Compression test done (hopefully I have done it right - plenum removed, all spark plugs out, each cylinder tested in turn).
Don't know if I have the cylinder numbers in the right order but I used the drivers side cylinder closest to the front of the car as number 1, the one opposite as 2, then middle one on drivers side as 3 and so on.
Results were
1 - 15 Bar
2 - 15 Bar
3 - 15 Bar
4 - 15 Bar
5 - 15 Bar
6 - 19.5 Bar (I thought this was odd so tested it again and got 15 Bar though the battery was running down at this point)
What do you think? :-/ :-/
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Yes 1,3,5, drivers side 2,4,6 the other, those figures look very, very good at 218 psi for all cylinders and most unusual on a used engine. :y
regards
richard a
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There appears to be no compression problems with those figures, and faults with the HG seem highly unlikely! :y :y
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There very good results.
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Thats what I thought, so what else is likely to cause clouds of white smoke, misfire and a burning smell??
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All them symptoms point to a HG faliure but, with them results i'm not so sure to be honest.
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Have you checked and double checked that your breathers are clear and your leads are good, your dis maybe faulty causing unburnt fuel in the exhaust. that will also kill your cats. Have you got oil mixing with your coolant or water in the sump if no to these then i would say that with those cylinder figs your head gaskets are ok.
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There is mayo on the filler cap (not loads) but none on the dipstick. When I pulled the plugs out they were wet with oil?? :-/
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There is mayo on the filler cap (not loads) but none on the dipstick. When I pulled the plugs out they were wet with oil?? :-/
Cam cover gasket has failed
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Around the plugs or the bit that sparks ?
If down the plug hole, as you know 'cam cover' gaskets, if inside the cylinder maybe the oil under pressure is seeping down the valve stems ?
Filler cap 'mayo' is short runs and not changing the oil (Vauxhall 10/40) every 4000miles/6 months.
regards
richard a
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Oil around the bit that sparks. Cam covers were done around 1000 miles ago and oil change done around 10 miles ago.
Agree the mayo is likely to be short journey as I only managed 10 miles before clouds of white smoke forced me to stop.
I am totally at a loss now. :-/ :-/
I might re do the compression test just to be absolutely sure??
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Oil around the bit that sparks. Cam covers were done around 1000 miles ago and oil change done around 10 miles ago.
Agree the mayo is likely to be short journey as I only managed 10 miles before clouds of white smoke forced me to stop.
I am totally at a loss now. :-/ :-/
I might re do the compression test just to be absolutely sure??
If the plugs are wet with oil this could cause it. When mine were first done, it smoked like a gooden when it was first run, but after 20 odd miles this cleared.
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Oil around the bit that sparks. Cam covers were done around 1000 miles ago and oil change done around 10 miles ago.
Agree the mayo is likely to be short journey as I only managed 10 miles before clouds of white smoke forced me to stop.
I am totally at a loss now. :-/ :-/
I might re do the compression test just to be absolutely sure??
If the plugs are wet with oil this could cause it. When mine were first done, it smoked like a gooden when it was first run, but after 20 odd miles this cleared.
Normally expect blue smoke if burning oil though??? :-/ :-/
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Did you use gen gaskets and are you sure that you havent dislodged a gasket when you fitted them, i bet your leak is on the passenger side. That is the worst of the two banks and easy to make a mistake on.
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Is the coolant ok ie no smell of petrol/oil, what was the oil like that came out when you changed it ?
regards
richard a
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Did use genuine gaskets, may have made a mistake as never done them before so it is possible, but no oil on the plug leads when I pulled them out.
The oil that came out at last oil change was very black - looked like it hadn't been done for some time but I have only ever done about 3000 miles in the car since I got it. Probably should have changed it sooner!
Not checked the coolant for smell of oil/petrol.
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Then the next step is to replace the ign leads as they could be fried. then dis pac
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So will the misfire explain the clouds of white smoke out of the exhaust Gary?
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I am at a total loss here. All the symptoms point towards HG failure but the readings don't confirm it.
Is there anything else anyone can think of that would give these symptoms?? :-/ :-/
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The mis fire will result in unburnt fuel. The white smoke maybe a sign of poor combustion ,ie missfire, as it is normal for a well tuned engine to produce some water during the combustion cycle. if the engine is not getting hot enough to heat the ex systm then you may well get steam.
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I had a similar problem with my 2.5 cdx re the white smoke
had the egr valve tested by vx as they said this was culprit
however turned out ok ?? anyway long to short put plate where egr valve was replaced plugs (they where oily) RESULT no more white smoke that was last year and about 11000 ago never looked back.
Re the plate my friend is with vauxhall this was his recomendation the reason being, no need for remap
as when vauxhall do the remap they (allegedly)charge you for a new egr valve which has been by passed by the remap anyway :( haha. i also put a plate on my wifes astra both cars ok for emmisions at mot and run a lot better. :D
I mention all this so i dont get slagged for doing the plate and not the remap ;D :y
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I am a bit troubled that one of the pots managed 19.5 BAR on the first attempt. The only way this can happen, IMHO, is if it was initially full of liquid which dissipated during the test.
Now, this could have been coolant from a breach in the HG, of course, but, whilst a compression check isn't necessarily conclusive, I tend to agree that those figures look too good for an engine that's blowing white smoke and missing as badly as you state.
What if that cylinder had a weeping fuel injector? If you've got fuel peeing into one cylinder it would misfire and you'd also get a shedload of smoke from the cat.
Given that the car has been laid up for a while I'm wondering if an injector has got a bit of dirt lodged in it.
I might be inclined to remove the plenum and run the fuel pump (bridge the two wider pins on the fuel pump relay). See if the intake to the offending cylinder starts smelling strongly of fuel. If you peer down the manifold runner you might even see evidence of leakage from that injector. Keep any sparks well away from the fuel vapour when you're operating the pump, obviously.
Kevin
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Thanks Kevin (and everyone else).
I did the compression test again today and got the same result except for the 19.5 bar (this time all cylinders 15 bar). Assuming Kev is right about the weeping injector this would fit as I assume all the fuel would now have evaporated.
Put everything back together again but still misfiring and clouds of smoke.
Andy B is coming round tomorrow so we can have a look together and I will report back then. :y
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If you spend a half hour removing plenum etc, have a look at the inlets - mine were wet with coolant on no.6 cylinder, might be another thing to eliminate or implicate HG failure :y
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Andy has been round and we have decided that it can only be the headgasket. The header tank is very highly pressurised after only a couple of minutes running and the clouds of white smoke out of the back is water and not oil or fuel.
I know that the compression test would suggest otherwise but we cannot think of anything else it could be. :-/
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Andy has been round and we have decided that it can only be the headgasket. The header tank is very highly pressurised after only a couple of minutes running and the clouds of white smoke out of the back is water and not oil or fuel.
I know that the compression test would suggest otherwise but we cannot think of anything else it could be. :-/
Do as Pete said mate, does sound like HG though to be honest :(
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Sounds as though you have caught it at its earliest stage, hopefully you won't have any damage to the mating faces of the cylinder heads or block.
When you have the heads off I would suggested having the heads crack tested. A failing head gasket would usually make the car undrivable, a minute crack caused by a casting flaw could give similar symptoms to yours.
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Just goes to show that a compression test isn't conclusive proof. I must admit I'd forgotten about the bubbling expansion tank. Difficult to blame that on a fuel injector. ::)
Oh, well, a bit of work ahead but hopefully we're nearer a conclusion.
Kevin
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Yes much work ahead. I might even take some piccies of the work in progress to compliment JamesV6 excellent how to that I shall be following. :y
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And just think, how much would you have to pay a garage to do the same? I know I'd be lost without this place...
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And just think, how much would you have to pay a garage to do the same? I know I'd be lost without this place...
Agreed :y
Without this place my car would now be on its way to the scrapper as it would not be worth paying £700 - £800 to have the HG done.
As it is, because of OOF, I have enough confidence to attempt the job myself safe in the knowledge that there is always someone to offer advice if (sorry WHEN) I get stuck! :y :y :y :y
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And just think, how much would you have to pay a garage to do the same? I know I'd be lost without this place...
Agreed :y
Without this place my car would now be on its way to the scrapper as it would not be worth paying £700 - £800 to have the HG done.
As it is, because of OOF, I have enough confidence to attempt the job myself safe in the knowledge that there is always someone to offer advice if (sorry WHEN) I get stuck! :y :y :y :y
Totally agree, this forum is very helpful, thanks to the experienced and willing contributors. I think we'd all be lost without them :)
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Scot buy a good torque wrench as you know what your like with breaking things ::)
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Thanks Daz. I already did before I re did the oil cooler bolt that was leaking.
Got the 8 - 60NM one from Halfrauds :y
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Thanks Daz. I already did before I re did the oil cooler bolt that was leaking.
Got the 8 - 60NM one from Halfrauds :y
I've a 2' breaker bar & angle gauge you can borrow for when you put your heads back on :y :y
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Will I need a 2' breaker bar?
I got started yesterday and got all the easy stuff done. Today its removing cams and exhaust and then I should be ready to remove the heads :y
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You'll want something with a fair bit of leverage to undo the headbolts, and then tighten the new ones in a controllable fashion.
Attempting to undo the first of mine I managed to shatter the 3/8SD T55 bit out of work's Halfords Professional socket set, before going for a 1/2"SD one and a 16" breaker bar. ;D
An assistant to hold the angle-tightening gauge, and tick off a check-sheet of which bolt has been done/which is next when tightening the new bolts is handy.
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I dont use an angle gauge as they are a bit cumbersome around the head bolts, I simply use a reference or a bit of card.
Put 8 bits of towel in the bolt holes before each stage and remove them as you tighten the bolts so you dont get lost!
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I dont use an angle gauge as they are a bit cumbersome around the head bolts, I simply use a reference or a bit of card.
Put 8 bits of towel in the bolt holes before each stage and remove them as you tighten the bolts so you dont get lost!
I bought an angle gauge & used it for the first stage but it was a hinderance rather than a help. I didn't use it for the second stage as I was concerned it might shear off.
A longer bar gives better control because you don't have to work so hard. The breaker bar and 1/2" extension I used were surprisingly springy which made the later stages a series of surprisingly loud creaking and cracking noises :o For the final stage I switched to a 3/4" drive T bar and extension which was more comfortable.
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Attempting to undo the first of mine I managed to shatter the 3/8SD T55 bit out of work's Halfords Professional socket set, before going for a 1/2"SD one and a 16" breaker bar. ;D
Been there, done that. Looked suitably sheepish when I asked for an exchange, and they didn't ask exactly how I'd shattered it...
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Thanks for the advice.
Done a bit more today. Still to do:
Remove exhaust downpipes from manifold
Remove cambelt kit
Remove cams and followers
Remove heads
I am quite pleased with myself for getting this far in about 4 hours without breaking anything! :-X
Andy B - I have sent you a PM, I need a favour! :y
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Thanks for the advice.
Done a bit more today. Still to do:
Remove exhaust downpipes from manifold
Remove cambelt kit
Remove cams and followers
Remove heads
I am quite pleased with myself for getting this far in about 4 hours without breaking anything! :-X
Andy B - I have sent you a PM, I need a favour! :y
Just replied ... .I'm at work & have been busy!
Just about to clock off and go 'wom'! ;)