Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Ironingboard on 17 August 2009, 13:30:13

Title: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Ironingboard on 17 August 2009, 13:30:13
I have a question I hope some one might know the answer to. I'm planning to replace the rear donut bushes on my mig and I've seen on the EPC that there are different types of bushes (standard, patrol car, etc.).

My question is whats the difference between the patrol car one and the standard, because I read about the hassle of using carlton bushes to firm up the ride but they dont fit correctly..... could the patrol car ones not do the job as well, instead of using the standard ones???
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: feeutfo on 17 August 2009, 15:58:13
epc shows differant bushes per model? Interesting.
General thinking on here seems to be that only shocks and springs change.(although have seen mention of roll bars and stearing rod being differant) Did they give you, or can you get, exact details? Part no.s etc?

But for your issue, give them your reg and chassis number and they should be able to give correct items for your car. I would not be concerned with any fit issues as omega suspension parts dont vary in dimensions as such, ride hight and ride quality aside. If the rear donut bushes vary in anyway i would think it would be in consistency of the rubber used or size of void holes rather than their actual size hm respect of ride quality. Forget any issues with carlton bushes imho, they are not designed for the omega, so no reason to "expect" them to fit. (for info, they(carlton bushes) are set on the spacer at a differant hight, so will fit, but then work out after a day or 2)

Edit, re read, sorry, may be worth a try. Not aware of anyone trying firmer "omega" bushes, as not aware of any differances between models, afaik.

Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Ironingboard on 17 August 2009, 18:28:19
will get the part numbers, curious if anyone has an ex-plod who has changed their donut bushes, pictures would be good for comparison.

Might order the police ones and see what the difference is, any genuine ones have got to be better than the chewing gum that I got off of eBay and fitted.
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Ironingboard on 21 August 2009, 12:54:27
Ok EPC shows two types of bushes for the Omega, one for cars along the lines of heavy duty such as Hearse armour plated which is 90539049, or non heavy duty (standard cars) which is 90447156
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: markey mark on 21 August 2009, 13:18:29
i have just fitted a set of carlton/senater ones in mine has tightened the back end up loads ! i have also lowered it 40mm  8-) 8-)
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Jimbob on 21 August 2009, 13:42:13
Quote
i have just fitted a set of carlton/senater ones in mine has tightened the back end up loads ! i have also lowered it 40mm  8-) 8-)


watch for them popping out  :o
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: andyc on 21 August 2009, 14:50:27
The standard bushes 90447156 are available from UK stock @ £39.02 each + VAT

The H/D ones, 90539049 are not available from UK stock but are available from Europe @ £50.58 each

Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Jimbob on 21 August 2009, 14:52:13
Quote
The standard bushes 90447156 are available from UK stock @ £39.02 each + VAT

The H/D ones, 90539049 are not available from UK stock but are available from Europe @ £50.58 each

Cheers
Andy


is that each or for a pair?  he asked hopefully  ;D
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: andyc on 21 August 2009, 14:53:17
have a guess ;)
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Ironingboard on 21 August 2009, 14:57:38
Well I heard on the grapevine that the heavy duties ones are around £80 each from Autovaux.

But something tells me that these heavy duty ones might be the answer to firming up the back end of our migs and to forget about trying to get the Carlton ones to fit.
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Jimbob on 21 August 2009, 14:58:46
Quote
have a guess ;)
  :'( :'( :'( :'(


of course, would have helped if I head read your post properly!

a job I need to before long.
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: andyc on 21 August 2009, 15:03:04
Not sure what ones Autovax are using but if they are OE ones then they are charging over the odds.

One of the guys from the ABS have Superflex make up some poly ones for the Carlton/Senator & Monza, now that stiffen up the back

Andy
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Ironingboard on 21 August 2009, 15:09:35
well to be honest Autovaux didn't have an exact price, but it would have to be ordered from Germany.

Anyway is anyone going to order some to see if they are any good  :y
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: andyc on 21 August 2009, 15:19:29
Give us call on the number below and i'll order some for you. You can be the OOF tester :y ;D
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: feeutfo on 21 August 2009, 16:12:58
having driven Kevin Woods mv6 3.2 fitted with dunlop sport max tyres, i really dont think its necessary to fit stiffer bushes to get the car to handel straight, if thats what your trying to achievie of course.
 I have used Falken tyres on Omegas for ages and felt happy with them except for tramlineing issues that refused to go away and set about all the usuall fixes to sort it. Full set ups to wishbones with stiffer bushes to shocks to stearing idlers to carlton rear bushes, the lot. Current set of 912s are appalling as witnesed by The Boy and Kevin Wood, although both suspect another issue with the car as well as the tyres which are a Major factor at the very least.
 
My point?

Well, i "Think" this is down to tyres! am a bit previous as i am due a full set or sports contact 3s to be fitted tomorrow morning, but i fully expect the whole range of handeling issues to vanish when done.

Will let you know, but as said having driven Kevins car, it is totally possible to get the omega to behave with factory fit parts and decent tyres, but note that have not witnessed your issues with your car, there is only so much help you can give on a forum before you have experience these symptoms your self to be sure we are all "on the same page" as they say.

With all that in mind, i would recommend stock parts and tyres that are as close to factory fit as poss. But for my issues, and i suspect yours as well, we will see tomorrow, for the better i hope. :-)
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Ironingboard on 21 August 2009, 16:13:25
Quote
Give us call on the number below and i'll order some for you. You can be the OOF tester :y ;D

Ok what make are they since the ebay ones (standard ones) were made of chewing gum (non ZF).
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: andyc on 21 August 2009, 17:13:47
Genuine Vauxhall mate not allowed to selling anything different

Andy
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Ironingboard on 23 August 2009, 01:40:04
Quote
Genuine Vauxhall mate not allowed to selling anything different

Andy

Hi Andy, give you a call on monday to get those HD ones ordered  :)
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 23 August 2009, 08:50:17
Quote
having driven Kevin Woods mv6 3.2 fitted with dunlop sport max tyres, i really dont think its necessary to fit stiffer bushes to get the car to handel straight, if thats what your trying to achievie of course.
 I have used Falken tyres on Omegas for ages and felt happy with them except for tramlineing issues that refused to go away and set about all the usuall fixes to sort it. Full set ups to wishbones with stiffer bushes to shocks to stearing idlers to carlton rear bushes, the lot. Current set of 912s are appalling as witnesed by The Boy and Kevin Wood, although both suspect another issue with the car as well as the tyres which are a Major factor at the very least.
 
My point?

Well, i "Think" this is down to tyres! am a bit previous as i am due a full set or sports contact 3s to be fitted tomorrow morning, but i fully expect the whole range of handeling issues to vanish when done.

Will let you know, but as said having driven Kevins car, it is totally possible to get the omega to behave with factory fit parts and decent tyres, but note that have not witnessed your issues with your car, there is only so much help you can give on a forum before you have experience these symptoms your self to be sure we are all "on the same page" as they say.

With all that in mind, i would recommend stock parts and tyres that are as close to factory fit as poss. But for my issues, and i suspect yours as well, we will see tomorrow, for the better i hope. :-)


Looking forward to hearing your findings.
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: feeutfo on 23 August 2009, 10:00:26
right, good news and bad news time.
Conti Sc3 all round and the pulling from the front has gone. On the falkens the car would pull badly through the steering wheel meaning you would have to stear into the pull to keep it straight. Very tiring on a long trip as constant correction and total concentration needed on road position, also affected by the rear making the issue worse. Sc3 through the steering wheel now give a firmer feel on the road as the sport max did, i expect this to improve maybe as they scrub in from new.

The back however, althoug better is "still" moving around, can only assume as The Boy said at a recent meet that there is also an issue with the car at the back as well as the tires.... Ffs!
 For info TB was happy to swap wheels as we did with Kevins car(thanks gents) and he concluded after driving his with falkens that they where worse but not as bad as driving mine with rears only swapped over. So tires where not good but also suspected a further issue with my car at the rear.

Seems he was right.....and  at a loss now tbh. Arse!



Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Pete Elite on 23 August 2009, 23:53:58
Quote
right, good news and bad news time.
Conti Sc3 all round and the pulling from the front has gone. On the falkens the car would pull badly through the steering wheel meaning you would have to stear into the pull to keep it straight. Very tiring on a long trip as constant correction and total concentration needed on road position, also affected by the rear making the issue worse. Sc3 through the steering wheel now give a firmer feel on the road as the sport max did, i expect this to improve maybe as they scrub in from new.

The back however, althoug better is "still" moving around, can only assume as The Boy said at a recent meet that there is also an issue with the car at the back as well as the tires.... Ffs!
 For info TB was happy to swap wheels as we did with Kevins car(thanks gents) and he concluded after driving his with falkens that they where worse but not as bad as driving mine with rears only swapped over. So tires where not good but also suspected a further issue with my car at the rear.

Seems he was right.....and  at a loss now tbh. Arse!




  Hi Chris,
             I've got Kumhos on the rear of my V6 Elite saloon and are supposed to be a good tyre but i find the rear end very skittish(seems to jump side ways like the rear end is a solid axle :o)especially when cornering on a bumpy or slightly pot holed surface, not particularly harsh cornering either just going round any normal sweeping left or right hander :(.
 It's only done a few hundred miles since the MOT so don't expect it to be anything in the bushes,shocks or springs department as i see the Tester give it a good going over ;).

  Any ideas as to what could be causing this and must mention that this is the first motor I've driven with self leveling suspension :).

         Thanks,
                    Pete :).
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: feeutfo on 25 August 2009, 03:28:47
Quote
Quote
right, good news and bad news time.
Conti Sc3 all round and the pulling from the front has gone. On the falkens the car would pull badly through the steering wheel meaning you would have to stear into the pull to keep it straight. Very tiring on a long trip as constant correction and total concentration needed on road position, also affected by the rear making the issue worse. Sc3 through the steering wheel now give a firmer feel on the road as the sport max did, i expect this to improve maybe as they scrub in from new.

The back however, althoug better is "still" moving around, can only assume as The Boy said at a recent meet that there is also an issue with the car at the back as well as the tires.... Ffs!
 For info TB was happy to swap wheels as we did with Kevins car(thanks gents) and he concluded after driving his with falkens that they where worse but not as bad as driving mine with rears only swapped over. So tires where not good but also suspected a further issue with my car at the rear.

Seems he was right.....and  at a loss now tbh. Arse!




  Hi Chris,
             I've got Kumhos on the rear of my V6 Elite saloon and are supposed to be a good tyre but i find the rear end very skittish(seems to jump side ways like the rear end is a solid axle :o)especially when cornering on a bumpy or slightly pot holed surface, not particularly harsh cornering either just going round any normal sweeping left or right hander :(.
 It's only done a few hundred miles since the MOT so don't expect it to be anything in the bushes,shocks or springs department as i see the Tester give it a good going over ;).

  Any ideas as to what could be causing this and must mention that this is the first motor I've driven with self leveling suspension :).

         Thanks,
                    Pete :).

Sorry Pete, missed this. In all honesty, sounds like shocks have run out of damping. I realise your tester had a good look but your description  sounds similar to my symptoms when the oil leeked out. But as you say would think oil would be visible for the tester to see. I have a pair here(not for sale...yet) if you want to come over to fit and try as an experiment to eliminate? Uxbridge not far from Reading.

Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Kevin Wood on 25 August 2009, 10:27:20
Remember that an MOT test doesn't mean everything's in great shape. Just that it isn't a hazard on the road. There's a big difference between MOT standard and 100%, especially with things like bushes and shocks which can deteriorate a long way from "as-new" before they will be considered dangerous.

Kevin
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Andy B on 25 August 2009, 11:49:48
Quote
Remember that an MOT test doesn't mean everything's in great shape. Just that it isn't a hazard on the road. There's a big difference between MOT standard and 100%, especially with things like bushes and shocks which can deteriorate a long way from "as-new" before they will be considered dangerous.

Kevin
 

My Senator passed its MOT when's its rear do-nut bushes were completely shot. The centre metal sleeve was detached from the rubber. That why it banged from the rear when giving it a boot full turning out onto the main road.
I used the easy option and paid someone to fit the bushes I provided.  ::)
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Pete Elite on 26 August 2009, 01:50:36
Chris, Pm sent :y.
Title: Re: Rear Suspension Donut Bush Question
Post by: Pete Elite on 26 August 2009, 01:55:08
Quote
Remember that an MOT test doesn't mean everything's in great shape. Just that it isn't a hazard on the road. There's a big difference between MOT standard and 100%, especially with things like bushes and shocks which can deteriorate a long way from "as-new" before they will be considered dangerous.




Kevin
 

  Sadly true Kevin, i don't know why we bother with MOTs to be honest, NOT WORTH THE PAPER IT'S WRITTEN ON, just another rip off IMHO >:(.