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Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 16:44:56

Title: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 16:44:56
took the car for its mot today and all was fine untill he got a great big bar out and started to smack it around the car
ive used this garage for years and they have never done this >:(
new tester they have now got and he is a right t*** >:( >:(

he got it to the brake test and noticed the abs and tc light was on and carried on with the brake test and said its fine it wil go out in a bit

after he finished he took the car out the garage and said he will take it for a spin to clear the light, and when he got back the lights was still on
he conected the computer to it to try and read the codes and there computer would not read it
he has failed the car now due the abs and tc light being on

is there a way i can get this light off or anything i can check
ive looked round where the sensors are to see if there is any damage and to what i can see they are all fine
ive tried driving and then braking sharp and braking lightly and even tried just wheel spinning the wheels to try and clear it but nothing seems to be working >:(

any ideas anybody
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: RobG on 16 September 2009, 16:50:14
Sound like the ABS ecu is on the way out. Whip the bulbs out and get it re-tested. Muck about with it after :y
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 16:51:34
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Sound like the ABS ecu is on the way out. Whip the bulbs out and get it re-tested. Muck about with it after :y

cant do that as they will look for them to light up when the ignition is turned on, if they see them not light up they will know the bulbs have been taken out
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: RobG on 16 September 2009, 16:52:40
Sorry, I meant get it tested at another garage :-[
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 16:53:44
be the same problem, if they dont see them light up when the ignition is turned on they will just fail it, plus don't fancy paying out another £40 :-[
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: RobG on 16 September 2009, 16:55:12
Did the lights only stay on after he`d taken the bar to it :question
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 16:56:34
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Did the lights only stay on after he`d taken the bar to it :question

not sure as i only noticed the lights on when he got to the brake test part, he put it down to the brake test machine has confused the brain because the front wheels was turning and not the rear
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: RobG on 16 September 2009, 16:58:52
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Did the lights only stay on after he`d taken the bar to it :question

not sure as i only noticed the lights on when he got to the brake test part, he put it down to the brake test machine has confused the brain because the front wheels was turning and not the rear
:-? :-? :-? :-?
Getting any probs with the speedo. Have you checked wheel sensors and cabling :question
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 16:59:42
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Did the lights only stay on after he`d taken the bar to it :question

not sure as i only noticed the lights on when he got to the brake test part, he put it down to the brake test machine has confused the brain because the front wheels was turning and not the rear
:-? :-? :-? :-?
Getting any probs with the speedo. Have you checked wheel sensors and cabling :question

no problems with the speedo and all sensors and cables look fine :y
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: RobG on 16 September 2009, 17:03:49
Best bet is a code reader to talk to the ABS ecu. Sorry I can`t be more helpful Nick :'(
I`m not sure but IF the ecu is OK and it`s been confused as the tester thinks is it not possible to get a re-set done :-/
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 17:12:06
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Best bet is a code reader to talk to the ABS ecu. Sorry I can`t be more helpful Nick :'(
I`m not sure but IF the ecu is OK and it`s been confused as the tester thinks is it not possible to get a re-set done :-/

thats no problem buddy thanks :y
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 17:13:01
is there anyone near walsall that could pop round with a code reader to see if they can have a look please :y
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: tunnie on 16 September 2009, 17:17:10
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be the same problem, if they dont see them light up when the ignition is turned on they will just fail it, plus don't fancy paying out another £40 :-[

Not if you take it to another garage who knows squat about the car, how are they gunna know its meant to have ABS and TC?

Senator had this problem, i wipped the bulb out before it went for the MOT.
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: JayMV6 on 16 September 2009, 17:17:55
My mate had that problem but needed mot fast so took dash lights out and linked the abs bulb with one of other ignition lights that goes out when engine starts up. Im not suggesting u do tht tho  ;)
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 17:31:28
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be the same problem, if they dont see them light up when the ignition is turned on they will just fail it, plus don't fancy paying out another £40 :-[

Not if you take it to another garage who knows squat about the car, how are they gunna know its meant to have ABS and TC?

Senator had this problem, i wipped the bulb out before it went for the MOT.

just 1 look under the car when they mot it will tell them its got abs,
i dont fancy taking bulbs out or linking the connector to another light as the problem is stil there :(
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 September 2009, 17:55:09
If they were being heavy handed with this "bar" I would take it straight back to the MOT centre. They broke it. They can fix it, or at least read the codes and tell you which ABS sensor they've mullered. If they're reluctant drop the acronym "VOSA" into the conversation a few times and it might sharpen their troubleshooting skills a little.  ;)

Only place they should be using a bar is perhaps to pry suspension components apart to look for play, and that only needs to be gentle.


Kevin
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: Jimbob on 16 September 2009, 17:55:33
remember this is an early car....so the more reliable 3 channel ABS

LOL at a garage not knowing if it has abs or not....think they need a light to know  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 16 September 2009, 17:57:35
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If they were being heavy handed with this "bar" I would take it straight back to the MOT centre. They broke it. They can fix it, or at least read the codes and tell you which ABS sensor they've mullered. If they're reluctant drop the acronym "VOSA" into the conversation a few times and it might sharpen their troubleshooting skills a little.  ;)

Only place they should be using a bar is perhaps to pry suspension components apart to look for play, and that only needs to be gentle.


Kevin

this was a dirty great big crow bar :o
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: tunnie on 16 September 2009, 20:31:35
why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: Andy H on 16 September 2009, 21:34:01
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If they were being heavy handed with this "bar" I would take it straight back to the MOT centre. They broke it. They can fix it, or at least read the codes and tell you which ABS sensor they've mullered. If they're reluctant drop the acronym "VOSA" into the conversation a few times and it might sharpen their troubleshooting skills a little.  ;)

Only place they should be using a bar is perhaps to pry suspension components apart to look for play, and that only needs to be gentle.


Kevin

this was a dirty great big crow bar :o
I imagine the ABS sensors must be pretty tough but... The front sensors are quite close to the lower steering ball joints so with enough brute strength & stupidity I imagine you could kill an ABS sensor.

The consensus seems to be that the nearside front ABS sensor feeds the speedometer so if your speedo is still working I would start by looking for damage to the drivers side front ABS sensor.
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: JayMV6 on 16 September 2009, 22:25:05
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why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....

 :oDon't sound very thorough to me MOT testers's should always have car in the air to check condition of brake pipe's, fuel line's and all suspension components.
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 17 September 2009, 10:02:26
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If they were being heavy handed with this "bar" I would take it straight back to the MOT centre. They broke it. They can fix it, or at least read the codes and tell you which ABS sensor they've mullered. If they're reluctant drop the acronym "VOSA" into the conversation a few times and it might sharpen their troubleshooting skills a little.  ;)

Only place they should be using a bar is perhaps to pry suspension components apart to look for play, and that only needs to be gentle.


Kevin

this was a dirty great big crow bar :o
I imagine the ABS sensors must be pretty tough but... The front sensors are quite close to the lower steering ball joints so with enough brute strength & stupidity I imagine you could kill an ABS sensor.

The consensus seems to be that the nearside front ABS sensor feeds the speedometer so if your speedo is still working I would start by looking for damage to the drivers side front ABS sensor.

ive had a look at that sensor again and looks fine, don't seem to be any marks on it or damage to it
i was told the fuse may have blown so i have also checked the fuse and that is fine as well
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 September 2009, 10:16:58
Are your speedo and PAS working OK?

If so, it's not going to be a fuse, and the ABS ECU is basically alive, as it provides the speed signal. Next step is to read the codes from the ABS ECU and see what it's upset about.

If speedo has also packed up, could be the supply to the ABS ECU or failure of the ECU itself, but still worth checking it for codes.

Have a good wiggle of all the sensor wires too, and make sure the connectors are all secure.

Kevin
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: tunnie on 17 September 2009, 10:18:21
also try driving over some pot holes, the old Senny used to be fine until i hit a big pot hole and that put the light on  ;D
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 17 September 2009, 10:21:26
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Are your speedo and PAS working OK?

If so, it's not going to be a fuse, and the ABS ECU is basically alive, as it provides the speed signal. Next step is to read the codes from the ABS ECU and see what it's upset about.

If speedo has also packed up, could be the supply to the ABS ECU or failure of the ECU itself, but still worth checking it for codes.

Have a good wiggle of all the sensor wires too, and make sure the connectors are all secure.

Kevin

speedo and pas working fine same as the rev counter, all working fine
ive just been onto the phone to the garage and told them i'm going to vosa etc and they told me to be there for 11 and they will get another computer on the car to try and either read the codes or to take the light out
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 17 September 2009, 10:23:34
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also try driving over some pot holes, the old Senny used to be fine until i hit a big pot hole and that put the light on  ;D
as much as i would love to try that, i wont :-?
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: Elite Pete on 17 September 2009, 10:26:11
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why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....
So how do they check brake pipes, corrosion, suspension components ect :-?
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: tunnie on 17 September 2009, 10:30:55
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why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....
So how do they check brake pipes, corrosion, suspension components ect :-?

One of the guys just stuck his head under the car with a torch, a couple of years back i did a jimbob and let my MOT expire by 3 weeks.

I called in one of these MOT while you wait jobbies, watched them do it. They drove the car in, and did all the checks, horn, lights, they even popped the bonnet, reveresed hard then put hand brake on.

Some guy with a torch stuck his head under the car for about 5 mins, that was it...

Nice shinny new ticket for the year  8-)
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 September 2009, 10:31:21
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why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....
So how do they check brake pipes, corrosion, suspension components ect :-?

Agreed. First thing my MOT station do is to put the car on a 4 post lift and most of the test is done from underneath. They do need the weight off the suspension to assess some parts (i.e. wheel bearings) so it's jacked up on blocks fitted to the lift.

I've never seen them use a crow bar though :o My tester says he can spot most problems by eye before he even touches a faulty part, and if a suspension part needs a crowbar to make it move, it's not bad enough to fail anyway.

Kevin
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: tunnie on 17 September 2009, 10:31:32
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also try driving over some pot holes, the old Senny used to be fine until i hit a big pot hole and that put the light on  ;D
as much as i would love to try that, i wont :-?

You don't have a sense of humour do you?
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: TheBoy on 17 September 2009, 10:54:30
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why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....
So how do they check brake pipes, corrosion, suspension components ect :-?

One of the guys just stuck his head under the car with a torch, a couple of years back i did a jimbob and let my MOT expire by 3 weeks.

I called in one of these MOT while you wait jobbies, watched them do it. They drove the car in, and did all the checks, horn, lights, they even popped the bonnet, reveresed hard then put hand brake on.

Some guy with a torch stuck his head under the car for about 5 mins, that was it...

Nice shinny new ticket for the year  8-)
They must have lifted it to do all the suspension checks, as you can't really do them when loaded.
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: TheBoy on 17 September 2009, 10:56:35
Sounds like a damaged sensor, or a faulty ECU.  Earlier ones do fail, but not in the same way later ones do.  Sometimes on earlier type, the relays weld, so a gentle tap with screwdriver on relays (remove top cover of ECU) can (temporarily?) fix it.

Only true test is getting it on a decent code reader that can read ABS ECU
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: sharky on 17 September 2009, 10:57:07
try taking sensors out and cleaning them, I did that with mine (although it turned out to be ecu) they were caked in grease and dirt.
 When my ecu packed up it had no speedo.
Might be worth checking the connections onto the ecu in case he knocked them with that crow bar >:(
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: Elite Pete on 17 September 2009, 11:29:37
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why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....
So how do they check brake pipes, corrosion, suspension components ect :-?

One of the guys just stuck his head under the car with a torch, a couple of years back i did a jimbob and let my MOT expire by 3 weeks.

I called in one of these MOT while you wait jobbies, watched them do it. They drove the car in, and did all the checks, horn, lights, they even popped the bonnet, reveresed hard then put hand brake on.

Some guy with a torch stuck his head under the car for about 5 mins, that was it...


Nice shinny new ticket for the year  8-)
Did they have horses tied up outside ::)
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: tunnie on 17 September 2009, 11:40:45
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why should a garage need to jack it up for a MOT? Been to plenty of places , you just drive in, and its all done at ground level. Most MOT places don't have a clue, my rear handbrake only works on one wheel and its very clear it only works on one. But it was still passed....
So how do they check brake pipes, corrosion, suspension components ect :-?

One of the guys just stuck his head under the car with a torch, a couple of years back i did a jimbob and let my MOT expire by 3 weeks.

I called in one of these MOT while you wait jobbies, watched them do it. They drove the car in, and did all the checks, horn, lights, they even popped the bonnet, reveresed hard then put hand brake on.

Some guy with a torch stuck his head under the car for about 5 mins, that was it...


Nice shinny new ticket for the year  8-)
Did they have horses tied up outside ::)

It was Surrey, what do you think?  ;D
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: nick v6 on 17 September 2009, 15:46:30
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Sounds like a damaged sensor, or a faulty ECU.  Earlier ones do fail, but not in the same way later ones do.  Sometimes on earlier type, the relays weld, so a gentle tap with screwdriver on relays (remove top cover of ECU) can (temporarily?) fix it.

Only true test is getting it on a decent code reader that can read ABS ECU

the car has been on another tester which came up abs pump circuit open or something like that and was told it will need a new abs pump and ecu :-[
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: TECHNOPUG on 21 September 2009, 14:38:54
Whereabouts are the ABS and TC sensors? Mine come on randomly when driving (usually after a speed hump/pot hole/heavy braking) and then go out again when the ignition is cut. Speedo and rev-counter works fine so I’m presuming that the sensors are loose/corroded/dirty.
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: sharky on 21 September 2009, 17:07:18
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Whereabouts are the ABS and TC sensors? Mine come on randomly when driving (usually after a speed hump/pot hole/heavy braking) and then go out again when the ignition is cut. Speedo and rev-counter works fine so I’m presuming that the sensors are loose/corroded/dirty.

on my 2000 3.0mv6 the rears are in centre of the rear axle, easy to get to!!, fronts are in the hub (take wheel off), be careful getting them out if stuck like mine, they are only plastic and I cracked one (front) getting it out, £50-60 to replace new.
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 21 September 2009, 17:40:43
The flaw in this logic is that ALL Omegas have ABS!
Title: Re: abs / tc light
Post by: TECHNOPUG on 21 September 2009, 17:58:25
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Whereabouts are the ABS and TC sensors? Mine come on randomly when driving (usually after a speed hump/pot hole/heavy braking) and then go out again when the ignition is cut. Speedo and rev-counter works fine so I’m presuming that the sensors are loose/corroded/dirty.

on my 2000 3.0mv6 the rears are in centre of the rear axle, easy to get to!!, fronts are in the hub (take wheel off), be careful getting them out if stuck like mine, they are only plastic and I cracked one (front) getting it out, £50-60 to replace new.

OK. Does TC only work on the rear and therefore if both the TC and ABS lights are coming on at the same time then it’s the rear sensors at fault?