Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 18:31:07

Title: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 18:31:07
Hi,

Now that winter has started to draw in I've noticed that cold starts seem to be taking that bit longer on my 2.5. She cranks well enough due to the new 77Ah battery, but since its turned colder/damper it's taking several cranks before she fires rather than on the button upto about a week or so ago.

I'm only taking about 2 secs max, but thats 1.5 secs longer than usual.

I've only had the car since July so this will be my first winter with her. However, having had 3 x V6 Omegas from new up to 9 years ago don't recall anything noticeable from my previous ownerships.

She has done 98k now and is almost certainly on the original DIS and HT leads, although new GM plugs were fitted about 2,000 miles ago.

Is spraying the leads in WD40 called for or isn't that the done thing these days?

Maybe she is just getting a bit arthritic in old age - just like me  :-?

Any comments welcome.

Thanks ,,,,,,,,,,,,, Rob
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Tony H on 20 October 2009, 19:24:17
Any signs of missfires?
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 20:11:36
Maybe a bit "lumpy" for a fraction of a second and then its fine ..........
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: kingplym on 20 October 2009, 20:28:19
what about oil? are you sure you have a 10w-40 in there?
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 20 October 2009, 20:30:11
If you floor the throttle and crank if for a few seconds, then release the throttle and start as normal, is it any better?
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Lazydocker on 20 October 2009, 20:31:06
I'd advise against the WD-40 unless it's desperately required... Personally I'd stick some injector cleaner through when you're near the bottom of the tank :y :y
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 20:33:16
Quote
what about oil? are you sure you have a 10w-40 in there?

I hope so, Markey Mark serviced it about 2000 miles ago. Oil still looks nice and clear.
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 20:37:55
Quote
If you floor the throttle and crank if for a few seconds, then release the throttle and start as normal, is it any better?

Not sure I 100% understand, surely if I floor the throttle and crank it will start, so where does the 2nd start come in? Unless I'm doing something wrong I never touch the throttle while cranking.
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 20:39:33
Quote
I'd advise against the WD-40 unless it's desperately required... Personally I'd stick some injector cleaner through when you're near the bottom of the tank :y :y

What, just buy some in Halfords and empty into a 1/4 full tank?
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Entwood on 20 October 2009, 20:46:46
Quote
Quote
If you floor the throttle and crank if for a few seconds, then release the throttle and start as normal, is it any better?

Not sure I 100% understand, surely if I floor the throttle and crank it will start, so where does the 2nd start come in? Unless I'm doing something wrong I never touch the throttle while cranking.


On WOT (wide open throttle) with the engine NOT running .. ie before you start ... then the ECU does not allow the engine to start. But the fuel rail will build up pressure even though the injectors don't open. So if it starts instantly on the second attempt it could be low fuel pressure in the raill ... either a small leak or blocked fuel filter.

At least thats how I think it works !!!

Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 20:57:21
Thats interesting, let me recap to make sure I understand:

1) Press throttle to floor & then turn key for a couple of cranks. Engine shouldn't start.
2) Release key
3) Take foot off throttle
4) Start normally

Is this right?

Thanks
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: hotel21 on 20 October 2009, 21:00:17
Quote
Thats interesting, let me recap to make sure I understand:

1) Press throttle to floor & then turn key for a couple of cranks. Engine shouldn't start.
2) Release key
3) Take foot off throttle
4) Start normally

Is this right?

Thanks

yup....  :y
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: The Red Baron on 20 October 2009, 21:10:35
Quote
Quote
Thats interesting, let me recap to make sure I understand:

1) Press throttle to floor & then turn key for a couple of cranks. Engine shouldn't start.
2) Release key
3) Take foot off throttle
4) Start normally

Is this right?

Thanks

yup....  :y
didnt know that. good little fault finder there.
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 20 October 2009, 21:14:51
Great, will do tomorrow & see how things are ,,,

This idea seems plausible actually as the car wasn't used for 24 hours prior to me starting it on the last 2 occasions, which could indicate a possible gradual loss of pressure?
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Entwood on 20 October 2009, 21:17:36
Thats what you are checking for really .. :)

BTW  I ALWAYS use this procedure after any work that has involved depleting the fuel rail pressure .. ie cam cover gaskets !!!

IMHO it just gives the system a bettr chance of a decent start.
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 21 October 2009, 20:15:51
Ok, left her for 24 hours and followed procedure, cranking on full throttle - she started, although I was expecting her not to

Should I have pressed the throttle down to activate the kickdown button, its just that I'm not sure I pressed that hard.
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: hotel21 on 21 October 2009, 21:17:34
all the way to the floor.....
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Entwood on 21 October 2009, 21:27:27
Quote
Ok, left her for 24 hours and followed procedure, cranking on full throttle - she started, although I was expecting her not to

Should I have pressed the throttle down to activate the kickdown button, its just that I'm not sure I pressed that hard.


Wide open throttle (WOT) means exactly that .. must be FULLY open .. foot all the way down as far as it will go...  :)
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 21 October 2009, 21:36:33

The point I'm asking is simply whether the kickdown switch needs to be activated?

If it does, then how would that work for a manual as they don't have kikdown switches, or do they?

Ta
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Entwood on 21 October 2009, 22:01:00
The kickdown switch has nowt to do with throttle position .. it is a signal to the gearbox ECU. ... all it means is you have pressed the pedal a certain amount ... which is not quite WOT. To signal the ENGINE ECU not to activate the injectors requires the THROTTLE to be at max (wide open) which will occur when the throttle cannot be opened any more .. regardless of manual or auto .. and that is when the pedal is to the floor

If you were to take the kickdown switch away ... physically..... you would still be able to open the throttle to max, just like a manual .. :) and you could activate the kickdown at any throttle you liked .. you could even do it with your fingers !!!  ... don't confuse pedal position, kickdown switch and throttle position ... 3 seperate things but all linked .. :)

HTH

:)
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 21 October 2009, 23:54:12
WOT when cranking actually disables the injectors. It's a "flood clear" mode designed to purge the engine of excess fuel if it has flooded.

Now, if an injector is weeping fuel when the car is parked or for some other reason it's flooding, this will help when you subsequently attempt to start it.

Other thing to do, IMHO, is to check for engine ECU fault codes in case the crank sensor is getting iffy.

Kevin
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 22 October 2009, 07:34:27
Yep, understand all that, but was sure that foot was to floor and therefore very surprised when she fired immediately as I was expecting cranking only.

I'll have another try & see what happens ..........

Thanks all
Title: Re: Starting V6 in cold & damp ???
Post by: I_want_an_Omega on 22 October 2009, 15:42:39
Right, today's update ,,,,,,,,,,

Foot fully to floor (and short of deforming the bodyshell could not press any further)

Cranked engine and she fired straight away.

So, what's going on ? Does the WOT thing only work on certain models, as I'm totally confused now.

BTW, the original point of the post I'm now satisfied with and is essentially closed, but this WOT thing is bugging me .........  :-/ :-/