Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 00:14:57

Title: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 00:14:57
Can somebody please clarify what hoses go where on the HBV. TIA :)
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 09:35:49
Sorry for the bump admins but local garage changed HBV (£15) :). Not getting much heat need to confirm if hoses are on correct. Vac pipe is on but not sure if other three are connected right :-/
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Jimbob on 27 November 2009, 09:46:50
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1192574064

shows the layout
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Andy H on 27 November 2009, 09:55:41
Took these pictures minutes after taking engine out of my car several years ago.
(http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~aholter/DSCF0737.jpg)

(http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~aholter/DSCF0741.jpg)

HTH
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 November 2009, 09:59:22
Yep, top of the 2 outlets to the matrix, bottom of the 2 outlets to the pipe that has a T in it...one side of the T goes to the engine and the other to the matrix

Inlet pipe to the engine.

Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 10:33:16
Thanks for everyone`s input. Much appreciated :y :y
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 November 2009, 11:46:36
Whats happens is if they are connected wrongly then the valve bypasses the matrix when heat is needed and flows water through when it is not!

Hence, no heat.

Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 12:14:22
Quote
Yep, top of the 2 outlets to the matrix, bottom of the 2 outlets to the pipe that has a T in it...one side of the T goes to the engine and the other to the matrix

Inlet pipe to the engine.

Right, pipes are connected as described. Turn C/C off. Engine runs up temp to 92 then fan kicks in. Matrix pipes in footwell are hot. Turn C/C on and call for heat, blows hot and then pipes in footwell go cold. Another thing I`m getting is although I`ve checked everywhere for leaks or poss. headgasket leak and can`t see none whatsoever the coolant level is going down in the expansion bottle to the sensor level and when I release the cap the pressure brings the coolant up to midway between sensor level and "fill" line. So have to keep topping up with 50/50 :-/
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Entwood on 27 November 2009, 12:33:29
Possibly an air lock ... have you tried "burping" the pipes  .. run engine with cap off and heater set to maximum, sharp squeeze/slow release of biggest water pipe you can get your hand on.

Often shifts a lump of air   :)
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 12:39:53
Done that for 15mins still no joy. As Mark said I`ve checked pipes seem right. The one with the T-piece is on the bottom of the "twin" spigots. Can`t understand why alloy matrix pipes get boiling hot with C/C off and then go cold when I switch C/C on and set for heat :-/
As both alloy pipes to the matrix are getting hot with C/C off, would there be an airlock :question
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Entwood on 27 November 2009, 12:55:29
Guesswork now ..... They get hot under "no flow" conditions simply because the alloy pipes conduct heat ... as soon as you are demanding "flow" the  water being moved is NOT from the "hot" side it seems ..  but why that should be I have no idea .. :(

Unless it is as previously stated

Quote
Whats happens is if they are connected wrongly then the valve bypasses the matrix when heat is needed and flows water through when it is not!

Hence, no heat.

and working "in reverse"
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Andy H on 27 November 2009, 13:04:55
Do both aluminium pipes go cold?

Did your heating get gradually less effective over time?

Did it stop working suddenly?

My instinct at the moment is that the heater matrix is partially blocked, enough coolant flow goes through (when no air is flowing through it) to get both pipes hot but when cold air cools the matrix one pipe (the outlet) goes cold.

Alternatively the HBV is fitted wrongly so when the Climate system cuts vacuum to it (to allow it to open) it actually starts bypassing (and both pipes go cold).

Have you tried it with the little vacuum pipe to the HBV disconnected? Both pipes should get hot (and stay hot).

You might need to plug the end of the open vacuum pipe to leave enough vacuum for the internal flaps to operate.
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 13:59:30
Quote
Do both aluminium pipes go cold?

Did your heating get gradually less effective over time?

Did it stop working suddenly?

My instinct at the moment is that the heater matrix is partially blocked, enough coolant flow goes through (when no air is flowing through it) to get both pipes hot but when cold air cools the matrix one pipe (the outlet) goes cold.

Alternatively the HBV is fitted wrongly so when the Climate system cuts vacuum to it (to allow it to open) it actually starts bypassing (and both pipes go cold).

Have you tried it with the little vacuum pipe to the HBV disconnected? Both pipes should get hot (and stay hot).

You might need to plug the end of the open vacuum pipe to leave enough vacuum for the internal flaps to operate.
I`ll try it now Andy and post back. :y
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 14:19:49
Vac pipe off. C/C OFF. Both alloy pipes are boiling hot. C/C ON warm air when heat is called then alloy pipes go cold and stay cold. Looking around in both footwells. Driver`s side can`t feel/see any leakage. Passenger at the footwell end of centre console, if I pull the end back slightly I can see a sort of bung type thing wrapped in grey/black sponge that is dripping fluid
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Andy H on 27 November 2009, 15:06:43
Quote
C/C ON warm air when heat is called then alloy pipes go cold and stay cold.
Both pipes? I was looking for a big temperature differance as an indication of poor flow due to a partially blocked matrix.

If there is no large temperature difference between the aluminium pipes then I would tend to focus on the HBV or look for a blockage in the coolant bridge area or look for more general causes of poor circulation (air lock or faulty pump etc)

Quote
Passenger at the footwell end of centre console, if I pull the end back slightly I can see a sort of bung type thing wrapped in grey/black sponge that is dripping fluid
I wouldn't be surprised to find condensation on the A/C pipes in this area. My last car used to make the carpet wet if I used it a lot in very warm humid weather. Does it smell of antifreeze?
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 15:18:46
Quote
Quote
C/C ON warm air when heat is called then alloy pipes go cold and stay cold.
Both pipes? I was looking for a big temperature differance as an indication of poor flow due to a partially blocked matrix.

If there is no large temperature difference between the aluminium pipes then I would tend to focus on the HBV or look for a blockage in the coolant bridge area or look for more general causes of poor circulation (air lock or faulty pump etc)

Quote
Passenger at the footwell end of centre console, if I pull the end back slightly I can see a sort of bung type thing wrapped in grey/black sponge that is dripping fluid
I wouldn't be surprised to find condensation on the A/C pipes in this area. My last car used to make the carpet wet if I used it a lot in very warm humid weather. Does it smell of antifreeze?[/quote]
Both pipes go cold. Brand new HBV all connected as should. Does the 2.0 have a coolant bridge? Water pump is OK. Tried "burping" the system for 15mins. Can`t understand why I`m getting coolant dropping to sender level then when the cap is released the coolant rises midway between sender level and normal fill line. Having to keep topping up. Fluid pass. side is clear, no smell (condensate?)
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: Andy H on 27 November 2009, 15:32:30
Quote
Both pipes go cold. Brand new HBV all connected as should. Does the 2.0 have a coolant bridge? Water pump is OK. Tried "burping" the system for 15mins. Can`t understand why I`m getting coolant dropping to sender level then when the cap is released the coolant rises midway between sender level and normal fill line. Having to keep topping up
Sorry, I should have read your profile properly. I don't know where the heater hose connects to on a 2.0, (it connects to the coolant bridge on the V6).
Your symptoms are quite perplexing. Firstly it is unlikely that a new component should be faulty but not unheard of so the new HBV might be at fault. It might have been plumbed in wrongly (it is not easy to see what is what at the back of the engine). The water pump might be faulty or the cambelt tensioner might have lost all tension and stopped turning the water pump or the headgasket might be starting to fail and causing coolant loss and system pressurisation.

I think I have reached the limit of what I can diagnose from a distance. I think you need advice from somebody more knowledgeable (and nearer)
Title: Re: Heater pipes
Post by: RobG on 27 November 2009, 15:50:13
Thanks for your input Andy. As you say the symptons are quite perplexing. I`ve tried all options and still can`t fathom it out. :-/