Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 15:45:04

Title: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 15:45:04
HI all well my car had to be brought home today on a back on a lorry.I was driving down the motorway when i lost power and then the car cut out so i got to a layby and tryed to start it and nothing.When i did get it running again it sounds like its a diecal car not petrol and when the car is running there is no power and has to be revved to keep running.Well i got some codes and i think iv got them right

01150500150301050015030115050
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 January 2010, 15:55:10
can you re-read the codes as there is a bit of an error in there somewhere

0115 Coolant Temperature Voltage
0500 No Vehicle Speed Signal
1503 Immobiliser Wrong Signal

Sounds a lot.....is the battery ok?
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 16:20:58
Hi yes the battary is fine but will redo the the codes.Its abit weird that this has happend after i put the temp gauge wire back on cuz it took afew times to start it then
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 16:35:42
Just redid them and got this
P1503      Immobiliser Wrong Signal
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Andy H on 08 January 2010, 16:55:54
It does sound like too much of a coincidence doesn't it.

The temperature gauge shouldn't have any influence on the ECU temperature sensor but something changed while you had your hand down the back of the engine reconnecting it.

First thing to consider is whether the previous owner had a problem and found that disconnecting the wire to the temperature sender somehow made the problem go away ::)

I would be looking for damaged cables, poor engine earth wires, damaged connector on the blue sensor?

When I lifted the engine out of my last car I thought I had disconnected everything. With the engine half out I discovered that the clutch hose was still connected. I couldn't see any damage but 20,000 miles later it failed  :(

See if anything looks as though it has been strained, there might be a connection that stops working when light pressure is applied.
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 18:53:55
If the cambelt has slipped a tooth could this be the course of it
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 08 January 2010, 19:21:16
Quote
If the cambelt has slipped a tooth could this be the course of it
I doubt it. Have you tried starting it again Rory. With a 1503 I would expect the EML light to flash whilst cranking the engine
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: unlucky mark mv6 on 08 January 2010, 19:42:32
Quote
If the cambelt has slipped a tooth could this be the course of it
It does actually sound the way my vec went,when that skipped a link,it sounded like a diesal and you really had to rev it to keep it running,but still cut out. :-/
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 19:54:40
Hi Rob yeh i have when the engine is cold it will start no probs but after 2-3 times of trying to start it it takes longer and longer to start
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: unlucky mark mv6 on 08 January 2010, 19:56:58
Quote
Hi Rob yeh i have when the engine is cold it will start no probs but after 2-3 times of trying to start it it takes longer and longer to start
My bets are on the belt. :-/
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 08 January 2010, 20:01:47
Quote
Quote
Hi Rob yeh i have when the engine is cold it will start no probs but after 2-3 times of trying to start it it takes longer and longer to start
My bets are on the belt. :-/
Wouldn`t account for easy start from cold, then struggle after  :-/ Rory, does the engine still clatter when you start it. If it starts I can`t see why you`re getting the 1503. I`m assuming the EML isn`t flashing on cranking then?
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 20:03:30
Yes Rob still sounds bad when started.And Mark how can i find out how to line it all up 2 see if it has jumped a tooth
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: unlucky mark mv6 on 08 January 2010, 20:04:56
Quote
Quote
Quote
Hi Rob yeh i have when the engine is cold it will start no probs but after 2-3 times of trying to start it it takes longer and longer to start
My bets are on the belt. :-/
Wouldn`t account for easy start from cold, then struggle after  :-/ Rory, does the engine still clatter when you start it
Mine still started fairly easy rob,weather it was hot or cold,just couldent keep the bugger running. :y
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 08 January 2010, 20:05:13
Can you describe the noise. Whereabouts in the engine bay does it emanate from :question
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 20:05:39
No light is not flashing when cranking
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 08 January 2010, 20:08:01
Quote
No light is not flashing when cranking
Rules out the 1503 then. Have you removed the cambelt cover and checked timing as per Mark`s possible diagnosis :question
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 20:13:02
Hi hard to say.Sands like a rattling sound
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 08 January 2010, 20:23:50
I`d be inclined to whip the cambelt cover off, check the timing
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 08 January 2010, 20:25:21
Yes thats what im going to do 2moro.Can anyone tell me how to check the timing marks
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: sneakypenguin on 08 January 2010, 22:29:38
this sounds like the exact same thing that happend to mine christmas eve. going down the motorway and came to some traffic so was doing about 10mph, all of a sudden the car cuts out, managed to roll it onto the hard shoulder the it just would not start.

Green flag came out and what do you know, starts first time. No warning lights on or anything. He got it running then after a few mins it cut out again and kept doing, so got it trailered back to my mums and left it till the 28th.
Now it seem when it has warmed up and ideling it will cut out, doesn't do it when started from cold (higher revs) and normal driving (again higher revs.

Starts first time and no strange noises, it's as smooth as it's ever been. I'm thinking ICV?

mike
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Andy H on 08 January 2010, 22:39:46
Do the paper clip test.

On a V6 expect failed crank sensor, on a 4 pot expect failed cam sensor.

If there is any chance at all that the cam belt tensioner is suspect then check the cam belt before trying to start it.
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 11:43:43
Hi guys iv had alook at the cambelt and it looks like it has slipped a tooth :'(
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Andy H on 09 January 2010, 11:57:33
Oops.

I think people have mentioned that damage occurs if it is 3 or more teeth out  :-/

If you are one tooth out you may have had a lucky escape. :)
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 13:26:26
There is a metal plate with a needle on it and the plate says used new belt,does that needle have to bve lined up with everything cuz it alooks spot on with the marks so i must of did it wrong in the first place
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Andy H on 09 January 2010, 13:59:28
Not too sure with the twin cam 4 cylinder Vauxhalls (the last 4 cylinder I had was a carlton) but..

What condition is the water pump and the other idler(s) ?

Do any of the bearings feel rough?
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 15:45:53
looked at the cambelt again and found that that on the right hand side of the cambelt is loose and the other side is fine so it muct of slipped a tooth then when i lined it up it went bk on the right tooth
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Andy H on 09 January 2010, 16:44:16
Sounds like you are well on the way to finding the cause of the problem :y

Have you got a cam lock? I don't know if it is necessary to use one on the 4 cylinder (it is on a V6) when you take the belt off.

Before you get the belt off turn the engine (in the normal direction) until it is at TDC.

With the belt off I suspect you are either going to find that the spring tensioner has lost tension or that an idler or the water pump bearing has collapsed.

Have you turned the engine backwards at any point? that would tend to compress the tensioner and let the other side go slack :(
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: rustym95 on 09 January 2010, 16:50:44
Quote
There is a metal plate with a needle on it and the plate says used new belt,does that needle have to bve lined up with everything cuz it alooks spot on with the marks so i must of did it wrong in the first place
there is a new mark and old belt mark if you setup belt on old belt mark with a new belt mark the adjuster is nakerd and should of got the kit not just the belt, also depends on the in and out let on the two cams are in the right place if off can snap the tapates and warp the cam.
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 16:51:51
yeh i turned  it backward once alittle bit
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: tunnie on 09 January 2010, 16:53:51
slap a new belt kit on there, replace the lot, tensioners, belt, water pump.

You need the locking wedge, you 'can' get away without, but for £5 its not worth the risk of using mole grips and having them slip off.

Its most likey one of the tensioners has failed
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 17:00:14
Yeh im going to get a new cambelt kit on monday.I think the last owner did the water pump and cambelt but not the rest of it as the belt and water pump dont look that old
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Andy H on 09 January 2010, 17:02:32
Quote
yeh i turned  it backward once alittle bit
In that case the indicator on the tensioner is misleading.

Is the nut still tight on the tensioner? Did you use a torque wrench when you fitted it?
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: rustym95 on 09 January 2010, 17:11:36
before you put new kit on would check the cam's and seats, and check clearance between them, look for a dent or fractures, and buckling on the cam's, as they make a mess if not checked when tensioner has gone and sliped belt. make a sound like the old diesel engines of the past.
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 17:26:41
i didnt check the bolts to be honest but when the belt is all tight the top of the belt going over the cams are loose
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 17:43:02
cams were checked and are all fine
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Abiton on 09 January 2010, 18:18:12
Dunno if this has already been said, but this trouble all seems to have started when you tried to fix the temperature gauge.  Are you sure that you didn't unplug the two-pin ECU temperature sender, and leave it disconnected, while you got the gauge sender hooked up correctly?

You seem to have a code relating to the ECU temp sender still, and if it really is not getting a signal to the ECU, the engine may struggle to run correctly, since whatever 'default' value the ECU uses will surely be a long way out either when engine is started from cold, or at operating temp. (big differences between the two just lately!).
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 18:30:17
If i have pulled a wire out tho surely it wouldnt make it run rough tho
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Andy H on 09 January 2010, 19:08:28
Quote
If i have pulled a wire out tho surely it wouldnt make it run rough tho
It might cause it to run rough. Difficult to know as the symptoms were all a bit mysterious.

I'm wondering whether the belt tension was already a bit slack and a period of rough running caused it to jump a tooth? or maybe it didn't jump until you had the cover off and turned it backwards slightly??
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 09 January 2010, 20:00:15
i`ll have alook at the wires behide the engine incase i have knocked a wire or something
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 January 2010, 20:34:26
Right well iv been talking to someone and he said to me he thinks that the cat could be blocked but is coming out 2moro to have alook
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 10 January 2010, 20:38:17
Quote
Right well iv been talking to someone and he said to me he thinks that the cat could be blocked but is coming out 2moro to have alook
I would have thought if the cat was blocked you`d have hell`s own work trying to start it as there wouldn`t be an outlet for the exhaust gases :-/
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 10 January 2010, 20:42:34
Well when the car is cold first thing in the morning its starts up no prob at all but after turning the car over or running it a few times it gets harder and harder to start
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 11 January 2010, 13:12:15
Right well not good new i had someone out to have alook at the engine and he has told me that the big ends or little ends cant remember what ones now have gone and what be cheaper to put another lump in :'(
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Welung666 on 11 January 2010, 13:31:32
Quote
Right well not good new i had someone out to have alook at the engine and he has told me that the big ends or little ends cant remember what ones now have gone and what be cheaper to put another lump in :'(

You'd only get that from oil starvation surely! Is it all timed back up again with a new belt kit and tensioner?
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 11 January 2010, 13:38:19
Quote
Right well not good new i had someone out to have alook at the engine and he has told me that the big ends or little ends cant remember what ones now have gone and what be cheaper to put another lump in :'(
The words "cattle" and "excrement" spring to mind. Is this person a mechanic or spanner jerker?
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 11 January 2010, 13:52:10
well when the engine is running it dont sound right at all and sounds how can i put it rattley
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 12 January 2010, 08:28:05
Right well today iv called the aa out to see if they can tell me whats wrong with it.I`ll keep you posted with what they say
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 12 January 2010, 09:31:05
Right well iv had the aa out and he got the car running nice then 2 mins after it was running it started making some very bad noises so the aa man had another look ect and talking about it he said that theres something failed big time on it and cant really tell me what without looking but said it would be cheaper to put in another lump  :'(
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 18 January 2010, 15:01:47
The mig is now all covered over for now till i can get it sorted but before i did this i had to move the car.Anyways as the car was running i pulled out an ht lead and the car ran alot more better and quiter so can anyone thing what this maybe before i start stripping the head down to find nothing is wrong there
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: unlucky mark mv6 on 18 January 2010, 16:09:33
Quote
The mig is now all covered over for now till i can get it sorted but before i did this i had to move the car.Anyways as the car was running i pulled out an ht lead and the car ran alot more better and quiter so can anyone thing what this maybe before i start stripping the head down to find nothing is wrong there
Well if thats the case then mate,you have probably got a plug or lead breaking down. :y
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 18 January 2010, 16:34:32
Yeah maybe mate does anyone know wot the firing order is just incase a lead has been put bk in the wrong place
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: RobG on 18 January 2010, 16:49:10
1,3,4,2 Rory
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Miggy24 on 18 January 2010, 17:12:51
Cheers Rob :y
Title: Re: HELP CAR HAS BROKEN DOWN
Post by: Grumpy on 18 January 2010, 19:08:01
Don't get fooled by the firing order; due to no moving
parts in the dis module the firing order will bear no relation
to the layout.
If you stand at the front of the car and look back
towards the dis module the actual layout is:
4-2
1-3

1 and 3 are nearest the front of the car.

You have two coils, one fires 1 and 4 and the other
fires 2 and 3; that's why the outputs are ordered
as they are on the dis module.