Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Koomorph on 18 December 2009, 10:22:33
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Hello everyone – new member here but have been reading a lot of the site. I think my Omega is suffering from a faulty crank shaft sensor – and hope you guys may be able to advise.
Bought an Omega 2.6 CD Auto (2002 reg, 81K miles) privately yesterday and on the way home the car cut out as I was doing about 40 on the south circular…. Engine would turn over but wouldn’t fire. With the ignition on (and when cranking) the electrical fault light was displayed on the dash (car with a spanner).
Tried several times over 10 min period but still wouldn’t fire – so had to call recovery.
When the AA arrived, we tried to turn her over again – and she fired up! Typical!.
So the guys said he would follow us home in case it happened again.
Car drives and idles smoothly, no issues there and seems to run absolutely fine – electrical fault light had disappeared and there were no other fault lights displayed when running… so off we went….
Then, 10 mins after resuming the journey, she cut out again when stationary at some traffic lights. Wouldn’t start (but turned over, same electrical fault light on dash) – so AA towed about 300 yards to a more convenient place. He said he thought it may be some sort of overheating issue/or a sensor thinking it’s overheating (even though coolant temp was well within limits – can’t remember exactly but below 85 – so when (15 minutes later) she fired up again – he said to put on the heating at full blast on High as that would draw some heat away from the engine and see how it goes.
Sure enough – we managed to get home (45mins later) without the car cutting out at all – again, smooth drive/idle/no warning lights on the dash……. and then I remembered the seller of the car actually did have the heating and fan on full blast when we were going for a test drive!! Didn’t think it too odd as it was freezing yesterday (like today!).
So having done a lot of investigating on this and various other VX sites – based on the symptoms above, the culprit does seem to be the crank shaft sensor. However, does it sound right that it seems to fail more when the engine is hot – and seems to be fine (so far) when the heating is on full blast (i.e lowering the engine temps by a couple of degrees probably?)
Could it be a faulty temp sensor (or other sensor) causing the cutting out and not re-starting?
Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated – car is a lovely drive and really happy with it – except this irritating (and dangerous if you’re going quickly!) fault.
Thanks in advance
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Hello & Welcome :y
Certainly sounds like it could be.
To confirm,
do the 'pedal trick' test.
this can be found in the clickable link in my signature.
this will give you any fault codes, and exactly pinpoint the problem :y
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I would try the brake pedal test first and see if there are any codes stored, oh and welcome to the forum :y
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Thanks very much guys - apprecite the advice - wasn't aware of the pedal test. I'll try the test later today hopefully when the snow thaws out a bit!
Thanks again
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Thanks for being patient with me guys - a lot of things going on before Christmas - but managed to do the pedal trick today - took a few goes to make sure I got the numbers right (they flash quick! ::)) - so here they are with the first one being:
P0335 CrankshaftPosition sensor "A" circuit malfunction
So does that pretty much verify the fault - and need to replace I guess?
Others that popped up:
P1612 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
and
P1613 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
P0230 FuelPumpPrimary Circuit High/Low/Open
P0560 System Voltage High/Low/Malfunction Input
P1700 Service Vehicle Soon Request from Transmission Control Module
I'm guessing the 560 might just signify a flat battery at some point? But why would there also be an immobiliser fault and what could the fuel pump primary circuit issue be?
Any guidance on these would (again!) be appreciated indeed!
Thanks again! :)
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The other stored codes may be old codes from a previous owners use.
Replace the crankshaft sensor, get all the codes cleared by a chat with a code reader (probably tech 2 as there are transmission ones)
Drive it and see what is then stored by using the pedal trick.
HTH
;)
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I think that I am right in saying that some of these are connected and I believe that they are not in chronological order so these may be old faults not wiped from the system. (Don't shoot me if I'm wrong)
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Given the number of codes I would check for loose or broken fuses and earth leads before condemning anything.
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Thanks for being patient with me guys - a lot of things going on before Christmas - but managed to do the pedal trick today - took a few goes to make sure I got the numbers right (they flash quick! ::)) - so here they are with the first one being:
P0335 CrankshaftPosition sensor "A" circuit malfunction
So does that pretty much verify the fault - and need to replace I guess?
Others that popped up:
P1612 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
and
P1613 Immobiliser No Or Wrong Signal Immobiliser
P0230 FuelPumpPrimary Circuit High/Low/Open
P0560 System Voltage High/Low/Malfunction Input
P1700 Service Vehicle Soon Request from Transmission Control Module
I'm guessing the 560 might just signify a flat battery at some point? But why would there also be an immobiliser fault and what could the fuel pump primary circuit issue be?
Any guidance on these would (again!) be appreciated indeed!
Thanks again! :)
My 2.6 Auto threw a P1700 at 82k, and never again.... it's now cleared from the ECU itself (only to be replaced by others!) May be worth checking the transmission fluid level when you get chance.
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I would be changing the crank sensor, and ignoring the rest if it is fine after that.
If you can get them erased, so much the better, can see what, if anything returns.
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I don't know if it is the same on the V6, but, my crankshaft sensor problem was down to the starter motor being loose and corrupting the signal from the crank sensor. Making this assumption, could be causing the electrical fault as there is also the bad earth...
Just a thought...
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Thanks everyone for the really speedy replies - as I'm not to hot on the "electrical" checks (where to even start to look for a bad earth etc...) I might invest in a new crankcase sensor and see how that goes.
The part number listed on the forum trade prices spreadsheet for a 2.6 is 2.6/3.0/3.2: 90540743
However there is an ebay ad for apparently a genuine VX sensor for the 2.6: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330387640848&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
This part number on the ad is different - 90492006
How can I make sure? Call Vauxhall and quote the reg/Vin?
Thanks loads again!
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I would replace the crank sensor with one bought from a Vauxhall dealer that way you know it is genuine, there have been many on the forum who have bought off ebay or suppliers selling supposedly genuine parts which have packed up within a few weeks.
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Ok, thanks Pete - I'll give VX a call on Monday and see what they say about the part and the price. With Christmas round the corner it may have to wait a little to actually buy and fit it.
Not really driving the car much at the moment anyway (espeicially since it stopped on the drive home from buying it and wouldn't start for nearly an hour) - and mainly bought it for my dad who is an older chap and won't need to drive it anywhere much over the next couple of weeks.
Just a question - could there be any relation to having the heating on full blast (and the fault not occuring due to engine running slightly cooler). It could be coincidence but seemed to do the trick when driving her home from buying her - didn't cut out once.
Many thanks to everyone again - this site has SO much useful info and members are incredibly helpful. :)
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Slight update to this – not directly related to the sensor – but thought I’d mention it here and also – I can start a new post though if moderators would prefer this?
I took for a short drive today and upon returning noticed that there were some small patches of oil in the place she had been parked since we drove her home from buying her. Not loads but certainly noticeable, covering about 8” square.
From where they are it looks like they have come from the back of the engine somewhere. I haven’t been able to get her up to see exactly where – but now I have alarm bells ringing that I’ve bought a car (which was meant to be fault free!) that is going to cause me (and more so my poor dad!) a lot of trouble…
I’ve checked under the oil filer cap and there is some mayo coating on the back of the neck of the filler tube.
Dipstick oil is very clear however – but could have been changed recently – no bubbles.
The coolant level does seem a little low however in the expansion tank – about half full.
Car drives very smoothly though, nothing lumpy… didn't overheat on the drive home (although I wasn't giving her loads of beans and it was a very cold day).
Is there an easy way to check that it’s the cam gaskets rather than a cylinder head gasket?
If I’m told where to look, I can have a poke about and relay any info back here.
Or maybe are there any members in the south east area that for a small fee I could ask to check her over and confirm – hope it’s not the worst as it’s a lovely car, really nice to drive, lots of services from Vauxhall and in genuinely excellent condition. :(
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Omega V6 cylinder head gaskets fail in one of two ways
1. coolant seeping through rotten gaskets and running down outside of engine
2. failure of 'fire ring' part of head gasket causing exhaust gases to blow into coolant passage when running (and coolant into combustion chamber when stopped)
If it is oil then it is weeping cam cover seals caused by blocked breathers pressurising the engine.
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Right -thanks Andy - I'm quite sure it's oil that is leaking - but will double check that it wasn't coolant on the ground that I saw. I guess I should keep an eye now on the coolant level? If coolant was getting into the combustion chamber I'm guessing it wouldn't run very smoothly....
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Hi Guys. I think Ive got the same problem as the first poster. I get the Car with a Spanner symbol appearing on the Dashboard. I drive an 02 Auto 2.2. I can reset it by turning the ignition off then on. The light then disapears, before reappearing when Ive been for a drive typically arounf town when im doing 30 MPH or so. I wondered how easy it is to replace the sensor myself. Ive tried looking at the manuals on here to find photos or information, but I can see anything? Is it a straight forward job, and would you recomend that I order the part from my VX garage? Thanks guys
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Hi Richard
As advised by the helpful members on this forum - do the pedal test as decribed here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189022687
and report back what codes you have. It may not work on a 2.2 though - can't be sure of that.
Crank sensor replacement guide can be found here: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1174321688
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Hi Koomorph!
Ive tried the pedal trick and it doesnt work. Ive just ordered a diagnostic code reader, so I will have to wait for that before I know the code. Replacing the Crank sensor and the cable seems to be straight forward??
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Hi Koomorph!
Ive tried the pedal trick and it doesnt work. Ive just ordered a diagnostic code reader, so I will have to wait for that before I know the code. Replacing the Crank sensor and the cable seems to be straight forward??
your 2.2 may well be cam sensor not crank :y
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Oke Doke. Cam Sensor, is there a guide to that on here JimBob? Just wandered out and had a quick look under the bonnet, and Ive got a small oil leak as well! Il upload a photo when i can work out how to do it Would this be connected to the problem with the dashboard light?
Heres the photos of the oil leak
[url][/urlhttp://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/richard1967photos/OMEGA/photo2.jpg]
<a href="http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/richard1967photos/OMEGA/?action=view¤t=photo1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/richard1967photos/OMEGA/photo1.jpg" border="0" alt="OMEGA"></a>
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Right -thanks Andy - I'm quite sure it's oil that is leaking - but will double check that it wasn't coolant on the ground that I saw. I guess I should keep an eye now on the coolant level? If coolant was getting into the combustion chamber I'm guessing it wouldn't run very smoothly....
People have reported running on 4 or 5 cylinders immediately after starting.
Theoretically, if the quantity of coolant in the cylinder exceeds the combustion chamber volume at TDC then hydraulic lock could result in a bent conrod. The coolant loss and other mysterious cooling ailments usually become impossible to ignore before that stage is reached though.
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Richard, fixed your pictures. (put the URL - the http, inside image brackets) Press the image button when posting that makes IMG but in brackets
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/richard1967photos/OMEGA/photo2.jpg)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e144/richard1967photos/OMEGA/photo1.jpg)
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Thanks Tunnie I appreciate it. I'll make sure I do it right next time :y
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looking at that picture you have a 2.2/2.0? There is a gasket at the bottom of that pipe, easily replaced.
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Hi Tunnie,
Yes Ive got a 2.2 Auto on an 02 Plate. Im sorry Im being a real daft so and so gents and ladies. Any ideas what the part number is for the gasket?. Do I need to take any special precautions when replacing it? ( Besides putting my brain in gear!) Just a question of unbolting the pipe, and taking the gasket out and then putting the new one in?
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no idea on part number sorry, but when you replace and clean, do the whole breather system at the same time :y
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Ok, Il have a look at breather systems on here in a mo. Any thoughts on the Cam sensor at all?
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wait till your code reader arrives, and check the codes, but crank sensors on the 2.2 are fairly bullet proof, its the cam sensors that go. Mine went at around 100k, make sure you replace with genuine part.
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Thanks Tunnie, I really appreciate your ( and everyone elses help) I'll get the gasket tomorrow and sort that, then report back when the coded reader arrives
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If you stick your location in your profile, there might be someone with a code reader near you ??
:)
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Right -thanks Andy - I'm quite sure it's oil that is leaking - but will double check that it wasn't coolant on the ground that I saw. I guess I should keep an eye now on the coolant level? If coolant was getting into the combustion chamber I'm guessing it wouldn't run very smoothly....
People have reported running on 4 or 5 cylinders immediately after starting.
Theoretically, if the quantity of coolant in the cylinder exceeds the combustion chamber volume at TDC then hydraulic lock could result in a bent conrod. The coolant loss and other mysterious cooling ailments usually become impossible to ignore before that stage is reached though.
Thanks Andy - I've now moved my oil/coolant leak problem to another thread so as not to confuse it with my crank sensor issue as posted at the start.
Here is the new thread related to the leak: http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1261340146
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Thanks Entwood Ive just put my location on my profile. Is there a guide on here for fitting a new cam sensor. I cant find one here at all?
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MMmm North wiltshire .... like near Swidnod ??? what are you doing this week ?? I have a code reader .. not as fancy as a Tech2 ... but will read OBDII .. :)
I'm away to Cardiff from 1400 tomorrow, MOT tuesday AM, around all day wed, thur, fri at the moment ... but SWTSMBO is also off so things might change !!
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Hi Entwood, Ill send you a PM
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Replied .. :)
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Right ... That's sorted then... we'll read the codes tomorrow and see if it is a cam sensor.
If it is a quick trip to Skurray's and flah the card for a new one ... so .. as I know nothing about the 2.2 (other than its missing 2 pots !!) what else do we need and how do we change it ??
Just looked on TIS and there is no procedure ?? Just a picture of the position !!!
:)
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Well Richard has been.. apparently the car behaved impeccably on the way over, no EML at all, and running sweetly.
Code reader shows no live codes, no stored codes, and no pending codes.... a quick look at the live data, and although I no nowt about the 4 pot everything looked "reasonable" to me ...
Does a cam sensor on the 4 pot "self clear" every time it works correctly ?? As this is an intermittent EML/cutting out it's about the only thing I can think of until we can get a code reader on it while the EML is actually on !!
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Well Richard has been.. apparently the car behaved impeccably on the way over, no EML at all, and running sweetly.
Code reader shows no live codes, no stored codes, and no pending codes.... a quick look at the live data, and although I no nowt about the 4 pot everything looked "reasonable" to me ...
Does a cam sensor on the 4 pot "self clear" every time it works correctly ?? As this is an intermittent EML/cutting out it's about the only thing I can think of until we can get a code reader on it while the EML is actually on !!
No, if it fails once for what ever reason, the fault should stay until cleared by tech2.
Where you looking at current codes or past? (i only ever used real tech2, so not sure how cheapos display it?)
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Well Richard has been.. apparently the car behaved impeccably on the way over, no EML at all, and running sweetly.
Code reader shows no live codes, no stored codes, and no pending codes.... a quick look at the live data, and although I no nowt about the 4 pot everything looked "reasonable" to me ...
Does a cam sensor on the 4 pot "self clear" every time it works correctly ?? As this is an intermittent EML/cutting out it's about the only thing I can think of until we can get a code reader on it while the EML is actually on !!
No, if it fails once for what ever reason, the fault should stay until cleared by tech2.
Where you looking at current codes or past? (i only ever used real tech2, so not sure how cheapos display it?)
Looked at current, stored and pending.. no faults in any area.
If the fault always stayed until Tech2'd ... how would you know you've fixed it ??
I thought the only ones that stayed "forever" were the seatbelt/airbag ones ?? ... perhaps the 4 pot is different to the V6 ..
::) ::)
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Well Richard has been.. apparently the car behaved impeccably on the way over, no EML at all, and running sweetly.
Code reader shows no live codes, no stored codes, and no pending codes.... a quick look at the live data, and although I no nowt about the 4 pot everything looked "reasonable" to me ...
Does a cam sensor on the 4 pot "self clear" every time it works correctly ?? As this is an intermittent EML/cutting out it's about the only thing I can think of until we can get a code reader on it while the EML is actually on !!
No, if it fails once for what ever reason, the fault should stay until cleared by tech2.
Where you looking at current codes or past? (i only ever used real tech2, so not sure how cheapos display it?)
Looked at current, stored and pending.. no faults in any area.
If the fault always stayed until Tech2'd ... how would you know you've fixed it ??
I thought the only ones that stayed "forever" were the seatbelt/airbag ones ?? ... perhaps the 4 pot is different to the V6 ..
::) ::)
Not sure on other engines, but even when you fix things on the 2.2 codes are 'still listed' on tech2, i forget which menus they are listed under, but i usually read DTC Codes? And it says if they are present or not present.
Not present meaning its been a fault at some point.....
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Quick update for you chaps. After leaving Nigel earlier, the car was still fine, then a couple of miles down the road, the ligt came on again!! Looking at the manual, it says that the light can be cleared by switching the ignition off and then back on. It seems as though the car is fine on Motorways or Dual Carriageways, but in town the light is more likely to appear. Does this suggest that stop start drving, with a quickly increase in Engine Temperature will more than likely make the light appear?? Just a thought?? If thats the case could the problem be a Temp Sensor??
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which light is this? One with the car with a spanner through it?
Could you rev over 4k rpm?
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Hi Tunnie. yes its the one with the spanner through it. Yes I can rev through 4000 rpm
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Hi Tunnie. yes its the one with the spanner through it. Yes I can rev through 4000 rpm
Not cam sensor then, its odd that no codes showed up on a diog. :-/
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Called and spoke to official VX regarding which part number for the crankshaft sensor to order and they said that for the registration I gave them there are two:
90492006 - £82+VAT
and
90540743 - £53+VAT
He said both are listed as 2.6 V6 crankshaft speed sensors, the second one as a Y26SE engine.
He also said both look very similar and couldn't advise any further.
Any ideas how I could narrow it down further? Is the part number stamped on the sensor?
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Could anyone advise why there seems to be a relationship with the crank sensor not giving the right signal (and car cutting out/not starting) when the engine get warmed up/hot? Leave it to cool down and it starts.
Seems to be fine on short runs and a cold(er) engine?
Any suggestions?
Cheers
Raf
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Your dealer is telling you porkies, 90492006 is for 2.5 V6, 90540743 is for the 2.6. Yet another dealer who has not got a clue >:(
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You need to replace that crank sensor soon, the symptoms you are describing suggests its failing. Once it dies, the car won't start at all.
Get the second sensor listed, and steer clear of that idiot of a dealer!
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Could anyone advise why there seems to be a relationship with the crank sensor not giving the right signal (and car cutting out/not starting) when the engine get warmed up/hot? Leave it to cool down and it starts.
Seems to be fine on short runs and a cold(er) engine?
Any suggestions?
Cheers
Raf
That is one of the common failure symptoms. Mine was the sme when it failed - leave it to cool, car would run for another 10 mins or so (mine failed halfway down France, and in hot weather, so warmed up fast!).
Change the crank sensor, dont mess around
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Thanks chaps - I certainly plan to change the sensor without doubt! It was just that I wasn't sure which one it was as both types/options were listed under my registration and he said he couldn't say which one until I brought the car in and they had a look.
And in this weather, I havn't had a chance to have a look myself.
However, if you're certain it's the ...743 then I'll just go for it and buy one. I was hesitant as I didn't want to get the wrong one and end up paying for both....
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Hi Guys, I thought I'd give you an update on my unsolved problem
Since postingIve taken the car in to be looked at a local garage and they put it on their Diagnostic Machine. They didnt see any fault codes for the Cam Sensor. They found a bent pin in the Cam Sensor connector and straightened it. They said that there were fault codes, which were Low Throttle response, Service Interface. They thought that the Gearbox Control Unit ( Its an Auto) and the ECU werent communicating, because a fault code came up for this too. I must admit that the light seems to come on when the car changes from 2nd to 3rd gear. The other things they said was that the pulleys/tensioners on the cam belt are very loose, so Ive booked the car in for a new cambelt and tensioners on Tuesday. Im completely stumped. Can anyone recomend anyone I can take the car to who has got a good code reader ( the one I bought cant find any codes) and hopefully help me get the problem sorted. Im based in Swindon Wiltshire. Thankg guys