Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: tunnie on 04 August 2006, 15:55:24
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Well for the first time, I have jacked up a car and put it on Axel stands... whoooo :D (basic for some but personal best for me! ;D)
I now have the car on an axel stand and managed to remove the front drivers wheel.
It looks like the senors are intact if they are the white plastic connector.....
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05794.JPG)
Now i don't know how to remove or replace the pads, looking at the caliper from behind i can see several nuts, but unsure which ones to un-do. As I only want to change the pads...
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05806.JPG)
I can see 1 nut with the largish wire which seams to hold the main bit of the caliper i need to remove... could someone point me in the right direction?... much appriated [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Thats the one you undo.....caliper then swings off.
You will be doing well if you can get the sensors off without braking them.
Whilst under there its worth getting a can of wax oyl and spraying any corrosion and any fixings etc.....its a task that I am always thankful I did when working on other bits in the future plus its good practice (some what old school thinking though)
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if the caliper 'swings' around, then i guess you have to remove the sensors first? before un-doing that nut?
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just trying to get that main nut off with the largish wire connecting to it... proving difficult... >:(
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There is a similar bolt underneath, use that one, then caliper can hinge upwards on the bolt seen in piccie.
It will be tight. Hope your toolset isn't too mickey mouse ;)
The sensors were shagged anyway weren't they?
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micky mouse ;D
Got a full set of sockets, found them in the garage look pritty proffesional....
Although i think i might have just buggered something. I managed to un-do the very tight nut with the main wire connected to. At least i thought it was a wire... not seams to be a tube of brake fluid.
I have un-done the main nut and it seams to be draining oil or brake fluid! :o
So i got scared and put the nut back in to double check what i am doing, have un-done the wrong nut?? :-[
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Sounds like youve undone the bleed nipple. The nut you should be undoing is the bottom one which has a consertina piece of rubber to the left of it. There is also a top one but you might ge away without undoing this one.
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Doh! It probably neede new brake fluid anyway!
In centre of your piccie is a bolt. Looking from underneath, there is another - undo that...
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I don't know what you've undone, but unless they've changed it on later models, you only need to undo the bottom bolt next to the concertina rubber. Then the whole calliper swivels upwards.
You only need to remove the calliper completely if you are changing the disk, or fitting a new calliper.
And be careful with it, when I did mine the top pin; where the other concertina rubber is; slid out and the calliper ended up swinging on the flexible pipe. It's not fixed in solid. Not a good idea!
I got my new pads from Vx and they came with new bolts. If yours didn't then you will need some thread locking compound, or whatever it's called these days.
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I don't know what you've undone, but unless they've changed it on later models, you only need to undo the bottom bolt next to the concertina rubber. Then the whole calliper swivels upwards.
You only need to remove the calliper completely if you are changing the disk, or fitting a new calliper.
And be careful with it, when I did mine the top pin; where the other concertina rubber is; slid out and the calliper ended up swinging on the flexible pipe. It's not fixed in solid. Not a good idea!
I got my new pads from Vx and they came with new bolts. If yours didn't then you will need some thread locking compound, or whatever it's called these days.
Yeah you only need to undo the 1 nut.
I took off the one with the concetina rubber bit, and the caliper swings upward.... now removed both pads (sensors snapped)
And tbh the pads don't look too bad....
Outside front pad...
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05810.JPG)
Inside front pad....
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05812.JPG)
brand new GM pad...
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05813.JPG)
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what does everyone think of the current state of those pads? yay or nay to change?
Personally i think no looking at how much is left....
Whats does everyone else think....?
Oh btw since i acidently bleed the system a little i am going to do the whole hog.... any general advice on that would be great too.
Shall i drain every capliper in turn? - I'd like do a complete fluid change... and being a numpty... were is the brake fluid tank in the engine bay??
Thanks
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I'll let others answer the bleed sequence, but the fluid reservoir is on top of the master cylinder - back left of the engine bay if at the front of car, facing the engine
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This may not be exactly the answer you were waiting for, but even though the pads are quite thick, while the pads are out, for the cost of a new set (£12.21+VAT on TC) I would renew them as a matter of course. If you were just taking the wheels off for inspection, I'd say leave 'em, but as they are already out...
Also, it is difficult to judge form the picture, but if your disks have a 'lip' then you should measure that they are not under the minimum thickness (25mm) and if so consider replacing them as well (£66.42+VAT with the pads on TC).
And last but not least - great pics, with your permission I may use them for the benefit on newbies in the future...
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I know it seems like a strange c0omment but, file a ledaing and trailing 45 deg angle to the friction amterial, it help stop squealing.
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This may not be exactly the answer you were waiting for, but even though the pads are quite thick, while the pads are out, for the cost of a new set (£12.21+VAT on TC) I would renew them as a matter of course. If you were just taking the wheels off for inspection, I'd say leave 'em, but as they are already out...
Also, it is difficult to judge form the picture, but if your disks have a 'lip' then you should measure that they are not under the minimum thickness (25mm) and if so consider replacing them as well (£66.42+VAT with the pads on TC).
And last but not least - great pics, with your permission I may use them for the benefit on newbies in the future...
Feel free to use the pictures, I find doing jobs with pictures so much easier & more confident about doing the job knowing i have a picture to refer too.
The pictures are of my project car, and i am still aiming to make a profit.... and my main car, the facelift 2.2 needs pads more than the project car - So I think that will get the pads.
I think i will bleed the brake system and put some new fluid in. I understand i need DOT4 for the system??, and the reservoir is the sqaure / rectangle tank top left of the engine bay?
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(http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/866/133867767ea4.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
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The brake Fluid is DOT 4, and the capacity is 0.5L from empty, though if you are changing the fluid and not just bleeding you will need more than this as you will be bleeding some good fluid before stopping.
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Ok great, thanks for the picture... i thought it was that, but again a picture helps a great deal!
I do intend bleeding the system... i did a search on the 'other' place... after reading that i get the impression i need to bleed each caliper?
So I need to jack up each wheel and un-do the 'bleed nipple' on each caliper and bleed it all out, also pressing the brake pedal to get all of it out.... or is there a better way?
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Best thing to buy is an eezi-bleed brake bleeding kit. It makes it easier for one person to bleed the brakes.
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Best thing to buy is an eezi-bleed brake bleeding kit. It makes it easier for one person to bleed the brakes.
That's one option:
http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?item=1818
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I think tunnie's got something similar. He affectionately calls it Mother ;D
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I think tunnie's got something similar. He affectionately calls it Mother ;D
[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
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I think tunnie's got something similar. He affectionately calls it Mother ;D
[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
Funnily enough my bleeding kit... (Mother) has a thousand uses!!!
You can say 'hold this' and 'move that' and as by magic its done.
The 'Mother' kit also makes a good dinner ;D
Seriously though, I don't mind bleeding each caliper manually ... not sure how much that kit is markjay? there is no price listed.
How much oil is expect to come out? I don't mind getting underneath each wheel un-doing the bleed and leaving a small tray to catch all the oil.....
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Around £13 from a variety of sources, such as:
http://www.mgocaccessories.co.uk/acatalog/Gunsons.html
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GUNSON-EEZIBLEED-BLEED-YOUR-BRAKES-ONE-MAN-OPERATION_W0QQitemZ290009637111QQihZ019QQcategoryZ23013QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://www.shop.edirectory.co.uk/autosave/pages/moreinfoa.asp?pe=EDIDCGQ_+Gunson+Eezibleed&cid=225
http://www.motortraders.co.uk/xcart/catalog/product_16383_Gunson_Eezibleed_Brake_Bleeding_Kit.html
http://www.partsforsaabs.com/product_info.php?cPath=141&products_id=1928
However, there are endless alternatives, some are cheaper:
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10151&productId=195481&categoryId=33975#
And some are dearer:
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=040210047
HTH
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Thanks, the halfords one looks interesting & simple
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micky mouse ;D
Got a full set of sockets, found them in the garage look pritty proffesional....
Although i think i might have just buggered something. I managed to un-do the very tight nut with the main wire connected to. At least i thought it was a wire... not seams to be a tube of brake fluid.
I have un-done the main nut and it seams to be draining oil or brake fluid! :o
So i got scared and put the nut back in to double check what i am doing, have un-done the wrong nut?? :-[
Tunnie
Please don't take this the wrong way but even after asking the question .... what bolts do I remove to remove the brake pads & still get it wrong - bleed nipple or banjo fitting at the end of the brake flexi pipe. And then ask where is the brake fluid reservoir :o Do you trust yourself that the car will actually stop again when you press the brake pedal?
Remember to press the brake pedal before you set off down the road to test them to ensure that the new pads are up agaist the discs.
Sequence for post 98 with 4 channel ABS (according to Mr Haynes) is:-
Nearside rear
Offside front
Offside rear
Nearside front
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How much oil is expect to come out? I don't mind getting underneath each wheel un-doing the bleed and leaving a small tray to catch all the oil.....
What you do is put a plastic tube on the bleed nipple and drain into a glass jar or similar, or just wrap a rag around the nipple and absurd the expelled fluid.
But the problem is not with the oil spillage, the thing is that you need to release the bleed nipple while the system is pressurised, let some of the old fluid come out, then quickly lock it back BEFORE the pressure goes down otherwise you will have air drawn back in.
The good old two-man method works like this:
1. One guy in the car, the other guy (usually you – the car guy is the ‘helper') is ready with the spanner around the bleed nipple under the car.
2. Guy with spanner shouts 'press!'. Guy in car presses down the brake pedal in full and shouts back 'pressed!'
3. Guy with spanner opens the bleed screw and watched the squirt of brake fluid come out. As the squirt dies down, spanner guy quickly locks back the nipple. It is important that at this stage the brake pedal is NOT depressed (i.e. NOT released) before the bleed nipple is locked back otherwise air will be sucked back in..
4. When the bleed nipple is safely locked again, spanner guy shouts 'once more!'. Car guy releases the brake pedal, and presses it again in full. Shouts 'Pressed!'
5. This is repeated - if just bleeding, until thick stream with no bubble is coming out - if changing the fluid, until the new (clear) fluid starts coming out from the nipple. At which point you move to the next wheel...
Tips:
1. As you bleed, check the brake fluid reservoir, and top-up as necessary. Don't let the fluid level in the reservoir go down too much or you’ll get air into the system from the top end!
2. If you place a tube on the nipple and submerge it in a jar with some new brake fluid in it, if the nipple does suck-back-in it will collect only brake fluid from the jar and not air.
3. It is advised to push back the callipers to expel the old fluid from them, but very gently and with a flat wooden/plastic tool. You need to
(a) make sure you apply pressure on all of the mating surface of the calliper simultaneously otherwise you may damage the rubber seal.
(b) not use any metal tools as you may scratch the surfaces on the piston or bore.
(c) open the filler cap at the top as well as the bleed nipple while pushing the calliper back, and then push it very gently in order not to create back-pressure and reverse the rubber seals in the master cylinder.
4. take care when opening and closing the bleed nipple. It is a very delicate nut. If it does not open easily, soak it in penetrating oil but do NOT apply brute force with the spanner - the nut will become round or even the whole thing could shear off. When closing, do NOT over-tighten.
5. There is no need to shout, if you roll-down the window the car guy can here you even if you whisper…
If you understand the two man method, you will see that the alternative solutions essentially eliminate one of the two guys - either a fixed air pressure is applied to the reservoir from the top (some use a hand air-pump and container, others like Gunson use the air pressure from the spare tyre) so there is no need to press and de-press the brake pedal as the system is kept constantly under pressure thus eliminating the ‘car guy’, or a one-way valve is placed on the tube at the bleed nipple so there is no need to open and close the nipple with the spanner eliminating the ‘spanner guy’.
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Another tip dont get brake fluid anywhere near your paint work. Its better than paint stripper
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Please don't take this the wrong way but even after asking the question .... what bolts do I remove to remove the brake pads & still get it wrong - bleed nipple or banjo fitting at the end of the brake flexi pipe. And then ask where is the brake fluid reservoir :o Do you trust yourself that the car will actually stop again when you press the brake pedal?
Remember to press the brake pedal before you set off down the road to test them to ensure that the new pads are up agaist the discs.
Sequence for post 98 with 4 channel ABS (according to Mr Haynes) is:-
Nearside rear
Offside front
Offside rear
Nearside front
The car i am doing this work on is not my main car, I bought project A not only as a way to make money but to practice my maintaince on. Yesterday was the first time i put a car on axel stands by myself.
Unfortunetly I did screw up and un-do the wrong nut.... my mistake but this is a test car and i am learning from it. I can now replace the pads on my main car no problems now, without accidently bleeding brake fluid! ;D
Thanks markjay for the really detailed guide on brake bleeding... as i do mine i might take some pictures and you can add it to that for a maintaince guide.
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The car i am doing this work on is not my main car, I bought project A not only as a way to make money but to practice my maintaince on........
I'm glad I won't be in the market to buy another Omega then! I might get one that some one has practiced on the brakes with!! :o
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tunnie, I'm pleased you're gaining the confidence to do more on your car :)
As warned above, ensure that you've thoroughly bled the system before using it (even a quick spin up the road)...
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i've checked the tank in the engine bay... loads of fluid left... so my little 'accident' did loose much.
Just bought a Vx Go battery and going to connect that up so it runs without being jumped all the time.
I never really tested the brakes on project A when bringing it back, i drove it smoothly as it was differnt.
I might try your test Jamie of trying to lock the wheels up by really stamping on the brakes (after i have done some gentle braking to test its ok)
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I might try your test Jamie of trying to lock the wheels up by really stamping on the brakes (after i have done some gentle braking to test its ok)
Let your new brake pads bed in a little first. The first few applications of the brakes will feel cr4p untill the new pads bed into the discs.
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Don't even think of driving it until you have bled the brakes! You will have air in there!
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The car i am doing this work on is not my main car, I bought project A not only as a way to make money but to practice my maintaince on........
I'm glad I won't be in the market to buy another Omega then! I might get one that some one has practiced on the brakes with!! :o
We all have to learn somehow.
I can't help thinking though, that if you don't know some-one who can show you how, then a Haynes manual is the easiest place to start.
These manuals may not be perfect, but at least they should help you avoid basic mistakes.
I know that you can't get a manual for the facelift Omega, but I'm sure that many of the basics are the same as on the pre facelift. Including the brake calipers.
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I might try your test Jamie of trying to lock the wheels up by really stamping on the brakes (after i have done some gentle braking to test its ok)
Let your new brake pads bed in a little first. The first few applications of the brakes will feel cr4p untill the new pads bed into the discs.
I left the old pads in, plenty of ware left in them, still very thick. I am keeping the new pads for my facelift.
Not planning on driving yet... after my little 'accident' some fluid escaped, but it was still flooding out when i put nut back in. Reading markjays detailed guide, i got the impression air would only be taken in once the fluid had stopped draining out...?
I'm glad I won't be in the market to buy another Omega then! I might get one that some one has practiced on the brakes with!!
I am sure with the help of this forum the brakes will be better than ever when done. As i said before yes this is a practice car, i am not going to sell the car without testing the brakes!! - I am treating this car as if it was my main car.
It took my most of friday (1pm-7pm) just jacking up the car, putting it on an axel stand, removing the drivers side front wheel, and removing the brake pads. Now i suspect many here can do what took me 6 hours in total, they can do in a matter of minites....
But having done the above, i now feel confident i can do the same job on my facelift a lot quicker. (without bleeding brake fluid)
If i get really stuck I can always ask TheBoy for help since he lives just up the road..... BUT i want to do it myself.
Yes i made mistakes, and I will probably make some more! But you can't learn without making mistakes! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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Not planning on driving yet... after my little 'accident' some fluid escaped, but it was still flooding out when i put nut back in. Reading markjays detailed guide, i got the impression air would only be taken in once the fluid had stopped draining out...?
If you disconnected the brake pipe, then the pipe bit that was still dripping fluid may or may not have got air in it, but the (lower) calliper side probably did... If you leave air in the braking system, the pedal action will feel very much soft and ineffective as the pressure needs to compress the air bubles before the fluid starts working on the pistons. It would feel as if you have to press the pedal all the way down just to slow the car down a bit, and a quick stop will be practically impossible.
Also, air tends to go up, so it may get stuck in the top of the calliper, meaning it will affect the braking of only one wheel, but then it might go all the way up to the master cylinder, meaning that either both front wheels or all four wheels may be affected.
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tunnie, cannot emphasise enough - you must bleed those brakes before using. Do not even be tempted to take for a quick spin without doing this...
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Just popped into town and got 2 x 500ml cans of DOT4 brake fluid.
Not sure how much i would need.... but i think on the brake bleeding part i will admit defeat and if i could ask yet another favour of Jamie?
If you have some spare time this weekend or during the week, would you be able to pop around and give me a hand bleeding the brakes?
Thanks
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I've gotta do it on the MV6 - you are welcome to come and watch (ie assist!) ;)
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I've gotta do it on the MV6 - you are welcome to come and watch (ie assist!) ;)
Excellent! :D
When do you plan on doing it?
I have 2 bottles of 500ml DOT4 if your short (how much is needed?)
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Normally, 1l should be enough. I'll have to wait until I get some more brake fluid, as I've just checked, I'm down to 3 x 250ml bottles...
Just in case you are not aware, once you've opened the brake fluid bottle, you can't store the bottle for long (the fluid absorbs the moisture in the air, reducing its effectiveness) - thats why I tend to use smaller bottles...
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1 of bottles i got from the motorstore in brackley seams to be leaking a little >:(
Just a bit moist around the cap.
Your welcome to use 1 of the 500ml bottles i got, i can easily get another one. Take it as a thanks for showing me what to do....
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I'll get a couple more 250ml bottles from Vx, just so its all the same in there... ...probably do one evening in the week.
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ok, let me know which evening your planning to do it and i will assist!
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1 of bottles i got from the motorstore in brackley seams to be leaking a little >:(
Just a bit moist around the cap.
Your welcome to use 1 of the 500ml bottles i got, i can easily get another one. Take it as a thanks for showing me what to do....
How long has it been like this? Brake fluid should only be used from sealed containers, the stuff absorbs moisture from the air so any open container should be discarded. I wouldn't use the fluid from a botle that has been opened for a while.
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i have not opened the bottle yet.. its still sealed closed. But a tiny bit a of fluid seams to be leaking from the edge of the cap >:(
Only just happend today since i bought it around 4pm ish....
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I don't know what you've undone, but unless they've changed it on later models, you only need to undo the bottom bolt next to the concertina rubber. Then the whole calliper swivels upwards.
You only need to remove the calliper completely if you are changing the disk, or fitting a new calliper.
And be careful with it, when I did mine the top pin; where the other concertina rubber is; slid out and the calliper ended up swinging on the flexible pipe. It's not fixed in solid. Not a good idea!
I got my new pads from Vx and they came with new bolts. If yours didn't then you will need some thread locking compound, or whatever it's called these days.
Yeah you only need to undo the 1 nut.
I took off the one with the concetina rubber bit, and the caliper swings upward.... now removed both pads (sensors snapped)
And tbh the pads don't look too bad....
Outside front pad...
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05810.JPG)
Inside front pad....
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05812.JPG)
brand new GM pad...
(http://tunnie.co.uk/projecta/DSC05813.JPG)
I thought you didnt do text speak tunnie? you said its "just stupid and lazy people that do that". ;D
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I thought you didnt do text speak tunnie? you said its "just stupid and lazy people that do that". ;D
Bl00dy hell Dave! What were you looking for to find this? Tunnie was still a student when he posted this!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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I thought you didnt do text speak tunnie? you said its "just stupid and lazy people that do that". ;D
Bl00dy hell Dave! What were you looking for to find this? Tunnie was still a student when he posted this!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
I was looking for brake pad change. Tunnie was ranting on the other day how only stupid and lazy people use text speak. He even went on about how its quicker to write "one" istead of 1 ;D
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Nothing in that thread is txt speak, its being used in the correct context, 1 item, not typing, "Hi every1" or "ne1"
stop looking for a fight, trawling up threads from over 3 years ago, give it a rest.
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Nothing in that thread is txt speak, its being used in the correct context, 1 item, not typing, "Hi every1" or "ne1"
stop looking for a fight, trawling up threads from over 3 years ago, give it a rest.
Calm down :)
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I am impressed that from being a 'student' in 2006, Tunnie seems now to be one of the most prolific posters of advice. Only hope I can achieve so much so quickly. ::) 8-) :y
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I am impressed that from being a 'student' in 2006, Tunnie seems now to be one of the most prolific posters of advice. Only hope I can achieve so much so quickly. ::) 8-) :y
When i first joined, had no tools, never touched a car before. I had to go to one of the admins up the road for help on an oil change ::) Previous car did 20k on the same oil ::)
This thread is actually from a project car i bought in 2006 to practice on, just went from there :y
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I am impressed that from being a 'student' in 2006, Tunnie seems now to be one of the most prolific posters of advice. Only hope I can achieve so much so quickly. ::) 8-) :y
When i first joined, had no tools, never touched a car before. I had to go to one of the admins up the road for help on an oil change ::) Previous car did 20k on the same oil ::)
This thread is actually from a project car i bought in 2006 to practice on, just went from there :y
I am very impressed, well done. :y :y :y
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I'm most impressed by the fact that he is still alive :o having read of his attempt at changing the pads by unscrewing the flexi hose banjo :D
I'm also impressed by how far he has progressed in the intervening years :y
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I'm most impressed by the fact that he is still alive :o having read of his attempt at changing the pads by unscrewing the flexi hose banjo :D
I'm also impressed by how far he has progressed in the intervening years :y
Exactly reason i bought my first project, was cheap, practicaly worthless. My facelift at the time was still worth £2k, wanted something i could mess around with :)
Cheers for kind words :y