Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: RossMk2 on 16 December 2009, 08:01:33
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On some cars this resets the ECU, im sure i read somewhere that this wasnt true on the Omega setup. Im 100% sure that doing this on mine makes a significant difference, so what acctually is unplugging battery & ecu doing?
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not much, but if you leave of for say an hour will wipe codes but not fix the faults it will just come back, but if you fix with bat on faults go any way, thats about it.
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It doesn't clear fault codes on the Omega ECUs IME.
It might well cause the block learning data to return to defaults which means the fuel trims and ICV idle settings will be set to factory defaults so it might be a bit lumpy for a few miles until it has built this information again.
What "significant difference" have you noticed?
Kevin
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Don't know whether the same on the TD.
I removed my ECU without disconnecting the battery.
It was off for a few days, absolutely no problems on refitting it.
Mick
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It doesn't clear fault codes on the Omega ECUs IME.
It might well cause the block learning data to return to defaults which means the fuel trims and ICV idle settings will be set to factory defaults so it might be a bit lumpy for a few miles until it has built this information again.
What "significant difference" have you noticed?
Kevin
The exact opposite Kevin, it runs like a dream again! The car over time starts to run like tripe, it gradually gets worse week after week then i unplug the battery & ecu, plug them back in and the car is as good as new!
I just wanted to know exactly what it was that what im doing might be affecting so that i can find out whats at fault when its 'learnt' driving information.
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In that case the block learning is taking the settings away from optimum for some reason. IMHO, could be a poorly Lambda sensor or an exhaust leak / EGR / SAI valve fault causing it to read inaccurately.
Worth checking the rest of the engine management inputs to make sure they are OK too (MAF and coolant temperature, throttle position, etc).
Is it throwing any fault codes or just running rough?
Kevin
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In that case the block learning is taking the settings away from optimum for some reason. IMHO, could be a poorly Lambda sensor or an exhaust leak / EGR / SAI valve fault causing it to read inaccurately.
Worth checking the rest of the engine management inputs to make sure they are OK too (MAF and coolant temperature, throttle position, etc).
Is it throwing any fault codes or just running rough?
Kevin
It doesnt throw any faults, it just gradually starts to run rough.
EGR is blocked off and has been since owning the engine with no problems for well over the 1st year of running, had both oxygen sensors replaced, exhaust leak has not been something i have checked, how far back towards the back box would a leak cause these problems? SAI, not clued up on this im afraid, what am i looking for?
Had new CTS, tried 3 different MAF's and have never replaced the TPS. Can the TPS be causing problems without throwing codes?
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An exhaust leak would have to be before the Lambda sensor to make much difference - so manifold & gasket, SAI and downpipe really.
SAI is injection of air into the exhaust manifolds from a blower under the passenger side front wing. If the valve is not closing properly after warm-up it coudl eb that air is getting in here. It can be blanked off and pipework removed as long as the valve remains connected to the ECU.
Had new CTS, tried 3 different MAF's and have never replaced the TPS. Can the TPS be causing problems without throwing codes?
Unlikely, I'd say but it seems you have eliminated (or at least swapped) most things. :-/
Kevin
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An exhaust leak would have to be before the Lambda sensor to make much difference - so manifold & gasket, SAI and downpipe really.
SAI is injection of air into the exhaust manifolds from a blower under the passenger side front wing. If the valve is not closing properly after warm-up it coudl eb that air is getting in here. It can be blanked off and pipework removed as long as the valve remains connected to the ECU.
Kevin
Anywhere lit. on here where i can go look at the SAI? I need to do some looking up as that may have been removed.
Had new CTS, tried 3 different MAF's and have never replaced the TPS. Can the TPS be causing problems without throwing codes?
Unlikely, I'd say but it seems you have eliminated (or at least swapped) most things. :-/
Kevin
So TPS is pointless messing with!
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Anywhere lit. on here where i can go look at the SAI? I need to do some looking up as that may have been removed.
The SAI system consists of a stainless steel pipe that runs across the front of the cam belt cover between the two exhaust manifolds. It then angles up to a shiny non-return valve body, into rubber hose, through a black plastic valve body and another rubber hose to the blower. I'm sure there's a picture on here somewhere. If it has been removed, check that the inlets to the manifolds have been blocked off well.
So TPS is pointless messing with!
I would have thought so. A Tech 2 session to have a look at the live data might reveal something perhaps? :-/
Kevin
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Anywhere lit. on here where i can go look at the SAI? I need to do some looking up as that may have been removed.
The SAI system consists of a stainless steel pipe that runs across the front of the cam belt cover between the two exhaust manifolds. It then angles up to a shiny non-return valve body, into rubber hose, through a black plastic valve body and another rubber hose to the blower. I'm sure there's a picture on here somewhere. If it has been removed, check that the inlets to the manifolds have been blocked off well.
Woosh (Straight over ones head) hehe, im pretty sure it has been removed, defo no S/S pipes running round the engine, i'd just need to know more info as to where it should be blocked off so i can check.
So TPS is pointless messing with!
I would have thought so. A Tech 2 session to have a look at the live data might reveal something perhaps? :-/
Kevin
Yeah that is a great idea, i was trying to organize a session with The Boy and his Tech 2 but that kind of fizzled out, he was rather busy at the time.
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Have a look here:
http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1189893357
(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/techinfo/v6enginebay/v6enginebay.jpg)
The SAI plumbing can be seen running left to right just under the aux. belt tensioner and you can see the SAI valve in the bottom right.
If you can imagine that silver pipe running to the edge of the engine and turning 90 degrees towards the rear there is a short rubber section that connects it to a fitting on the exhaust manifold.
Kevin
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Thanks Kevin, thats defo been removed! Will check the manifolds to see if i can spot a joint.
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UPDATE:
I told a little white lie :( I do have a fault code but i didnt believe it so didnt mention and have checked again and its there:
19!!!!!
That would mean its eaten another gm vauxhall crank sensor in about 6-9months, cant be right surely, and can this cause the problems im having?
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Is that from the paperclip method, or have you got a reader / resetter yet?
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Is that from the paperclip method, or have you got a reader / resetter yet?
Paperclip
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So possible an old code :-?
youve the old style connector havent you?
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How do again, happy new year to everyone! So i have ordered a little unit as per Jimbob's referal so that i can read data through the laptop of what the car is doing, should be here next few days.
Although i know what im looking at with fault codes, i wont have a clue as to what readings look suspect from the live data would anyone mind who does know what they are looking at if i were to post a screen shot and you tell me what might need checking?
Or you might even know what data would contribute to:
- As said earlier in the thread, the fact that when the car 'learns' what everythings up to the car starts to run like tripe, but a quick reset and it runs better again.
- Also not idling when cold (Did have the grub screw wound in on TB to also hide low tick over, have pulled it back out now so its doing it all itself. Have tried various ICV's & AFM's and dont think its that. Brand new CTS also.
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That tool has the ability to export a spreadsheet of all the live data.
Post those results here, pref with the car cold, and separately at running temp, and we can see if anything looks amiss :y
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It doesn't clear fault codes on the Omega ECUs IME.
It might well cause the block learning data to return to defaults which means the fuel trims and ICV idle settings will be set to factory defaults so it might be a bit lumpy for a few miles until it has built this information again.
What "significant difference" have you noticed?
Kevin
The exact opposite Kevin, it runs like a dream again! The car over time starts to run like tripe, it gradually gets worse week after week then i unplug the battery & ecu, plug them back in and the car is as good as new!
I just wanted to know exactly what it was that what im doing might be affecting so that i can find out whats at fault when its 'learnt' driving information.
changed o2 sensors ?
might be pishing in the wind here but i had the same problem after my engine change >:( >:(
cured by swaping the o2 sensor plugs round :y :y
it turned out that after the battery was disconected and the ecu went back too default settings, it ran ok untill the ecu tried too learn its own values.
problem was that it was takeing its readings from one bank and trying to adjust the other !!!!
got too the point where the running got worse and worse then it threw up a code and went into limp mode. this took anyware from 10 miles too 50 miles.
if you try it, DON'T disconect the battery first or you will go back too square 1 :(
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Jimbob:
I can never put an exact time in miles as to how long it takes for the thing to play up but would you need both hot and cold readings from when its refreshed and when its playing up?
Edit: Oh and i really would struggle to get a reading from cold as im pretty sure it would cut out :( suppose if kept me foot on gas for 1min it might just hold up
changed o2 sensors ?
might be pishing in the wind here but i had the same problem after my engine change >:( >:(
cured by swaping the o2 sensor plugs round :y :y
it turned out that after the battery was disconected and the ecu went back too default settings, it ran ok untill the ecu tried too learn its own values.
problem was that it was takeing its readings from one bank and trying to adjust the other !!!!
got too the point where the running got worse and worse then it threw up a code and went into limp mode. this took anyware from 10 miles too 50 miles.
if you try it, DON'T disconect the battery first or you will go back too square 1 :(
o2 sensors did get changed, around a year ago maybe? But im pretty sure the same plug was used
So you just swapped the sensors around and it fixed the problem? The sensor themselves or the plugs to which they were plugged into? Then remove battery? Sorry if i sound think but can you go into a little mroe detail.... Sorry :(
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was thinking put hot and cold readings up as soon as you can, then as soon as its playing up, get another set of readings.
with a bit of luck something will stand out like a sore thumb :y
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Hopefully, we will see! Interested in the o2 sensor trick mind
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Hopefully, we will see! Interested in the o2 sensor trick mind
yeh, i swapped a 2.5 for a 3 ltr :y
got allsorts of wierd fault codes coming up >:(
all lambda sensor related ( low / high / open circuit and many more ) :(
every time i did something to the chuffin engine, i disconected the battery. replaced various bits and cut out and replaced various looms :-[
turned out that all that, by disconecting the battery, the ecu went into default mode ( runs ok :y ) but as it starts to learn, it gets worse ( bad idleing / hunting / no power under load ) >:(
swapped them round and it runs ok now :y
but don't disconecct the battery or you start from scratch :y
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I did an ECU swap (with Immobiliser & key chips) recently from a donor car that was last used in July. It started 1st time but also had the stored codes from the old vehicle. These were reset using "My Naff Code Reader" and I had a nice fresh start.
So, I'm with the block thingy being reset and know for a fact that the stored codes do get stored even after a period of 5 months without power.
HTH ......... Rob
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I did an ECU swap (with Immobiliser & key chips) recently from a donor car that was last used in July. It started 1st time but also had the stored codes from the old vehicle. These were reset using "My Naff Code Reader" and I had a nice fresh start.
So, I'm with the block thingy being reset and know for a fact that the stored codes do get stored even after a period of 5 months without power.
HTH ......... Rob
Codes do get stored indefinitely. Block learn data gets reset when the ECU loses power.
Kevin
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Hopefully, we will see! Interested in the o2 sensor trick mind
yeh, i swapped a 2.5 for a 3 ltr :y
got allsorts of wierd fault codes coming up >:(
all lambda sensor related ( low / high / open circuit and many more ) :(
every time i did something to the chuffin engine, i disconected the battery. replaced various bits and cut out and replaced various looms :-[
turned out that all that, by disconecting the battery, the ecu went into default mode ( runs ok :y ) but as it starts to learn, it gets worse ( bad idleing / hunting / no power under load ) >:(
swapped them round and it runs ok now :y
but don't disconecct the battery or you start from scratch :y
Ok but you didnt state, did you just change which sensor is in which plug or did you moves the sensors also? I cant see where mine would have been connected up incorrectly mind
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You are that close at hopefully getting some useful readings...
imho you would be best not tinkering until then, and possibly introducing other gremlins.
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You are that close at hopefully getting some useful readings...
imho you would be best not tinkering until then, and possibly introducing other gremlins.
Yes mate thats a good point! Car has been running for a few miles now since last reset, so hopefully i can get the readings hot/cold from it running now and then straight after a reset.
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just swap the sensor 1 and 2 plugs round
on the omega, the loom for both sensors comes down and then splits into two equal lenths in a Y shape. it then splits over the top of the gearbox.
i'm presuming your loom is similar ??
its pish easy too get the 2 the wrong way round :-[
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Maybe, but as Jimbob said, im best waiting untill i have some software to read figures 1st
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hope you get sorted soon mate.
i spent 3 weeks going through everything to the point where i nearly torched the tinker >:(
burnt a cat out in the process too >:(
could'nt believe how simple the cure was :-[ :-[
had a bit of pish takeing off people round here since :-[ :-[
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Wooohoooo! I know that my gadget has turned up, its waiting to be unpacked at home so i could take a warm reading when i get back.
Jimbob, i dunno what instructions it acctually comes with but as you know the item can you give me a little guide as to what to do with it? hehe plz?
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its very self explanatory
just double click on each option to select your car
go into engine, you can check and clear fault codes.
measuring blocks gives live data, there is an export button, use that to create a nice spreadsheet of all the live data, and paste it here :y
there are video's on youtube of it in use :y
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My money is on the 02 sensors being wrongly connected......easy to check....un-plug one of them (say on bank 1) and see if the bank 1 fault code comes up.....if bank2 fault code comes up, the cause is proven.
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i was that man :y
sadly :-[ :-[ :-[
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My money is on the 02 sensors being wrongly connected......easy to check....un-plug one of them (say on bank 1) and see if the bank 1 fault code comes up.....if bank2 fault code comes up, the cause is proven.
Lets the betting commence! hehe
Thats not a bad idea once the tool is in my hands..... only thing is which is bank 1 and 2? I mean i would assume bank 1 is the bank that starts the firing order off but stranger things have happened i suppose.
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My money is on the 02 sensors being wrongly connected......easy to check....un-plug one of them (say on bank 1) and see if the bank 1 fault code comes up.....if bank2 fault code comes up, the cause is proven.
Lets the betting commence! hehe
Thats not a bad idea once the tool is in my hands..... only thing is which is bank 1 and 2? I mean i would assume bank 1 is the bank that starts the firing order off but stranger things have happened i suppose.
bank 1 is 1/3/5.
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Right then below is a snapshot of data, things to note:
19 code was an old code and cleared it
Tried unplugging the o2 sensors and weirdly it didnt show a fault code, tried both banks also and neither flagged up
And it thinks its an auto, when its been mated to an F20 manual gearbox, shouldnt matter should it?
here it is and again thanks before hand for the help:
"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time> 07/01/2010. 19:05
Workshop information:
Please add your workshop
name in the settings window
Selected model> 1994
Control Unit:
KW82 protocol initialized.
ECU ID= PS 90457098
Measuring blocks information:
Identifier 1C
Battery Voltage 13.3 V
Immobiliser Signal Not Received
Immobiliser Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.47 V
Simulated Idle Position Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.82 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 16 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 1.23 V
Coolant Temperature 80 °C
Intake Air Temperature 4.09 V
Intake Air Temperature 5 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 14 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Knock Signal Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.58 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0%
O2 Sensor 1 127 mV
O2 Sensor 2 566 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Rich
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 102
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 47 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 125 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Inactive
Engine Speed 693 RPM
Idle Air Control 22 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 179 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 200 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 136 Steps
Desired Idle Air 44 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 13 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 750 RPM
Injection Pulse 3.9 ms
Engine Load Signal 1.3 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V
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o2 loop 2 looks too low to me
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Desired Idle Air 44kg/h
Actual Idle Air 13kg/h
Very Differing O2 Sensor Values also.
Are these normal anomalies?
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This is what i like to hear! Hehe people who know what they talking about (because i dont yet)
Thanks for the swift answers, if we can get to a point where there is something you want me to try i would be most greatful
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O2 readings certainly a bit off.
im my experience they should be similar.
not got a blowing exhaust anywhere have you?
you can also reset the block learn values in the menus...no more battery disconnecting needed ;)
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you said the programming part of the tool was dangerous and thats where the learning thing is isnt it? But if i can reset it from there i suppose i could see what the readings are then?
Blowing exhaust could cause those readings, so it could be the join to downpipe or manifold gasket. Which one look off to you?
Any ideas as to why the idle is crazy and will not idle when cold?
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by programming I was meaning keys and ice.
resetting block learns
clearing codes
all appears fine :y
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last copy i have of my data showed..
O2 Sensor 1 215 mV
O2 Sensor 2 254 mV
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 122 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 121
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 129 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 125 Steps
your voltages are fairly different, and the low step count of one is strange
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Ok so i will try that, but where do we go from here?
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check the 02 sensor connections are ok...maybe use some switch cleaner.
check exhaust is sound.
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the actual connections are fine. which one would you say is adrift? with the exhaust the only way is to get gaskets and refit
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Right took a reading 1st thing this morning while ice cold and it struggling to idle.
Also Jimbob you might know, i went to reset learn values and it gives you two options: O2 and IAC resets then it brings up a page of the block learn values you want to reset. Now with O2 it auto loaded most of the values i only noticed one missing which i selected from drop down list so thats not the problem, what was happening was when i pressed 'start activation' it greys out and then just stops like that and i have to press 'stop activation' to move on. Does it take some time to reset the block learn values and it was just me not giving it the time it needs?
Readings:
"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time> 08/01/2010. 07:43
Workshop information:
Please add your workshop
name in the settings window
Selected model> 1994 Omega-B Engine X 30 XE
Control Unit:
KW82 protocol initialized.
ECU ID= PS 90457098 261203272 1267358445 4
Measuring blocks information:
Identifier 1C
Battery Voltage 11.3 V
Immobiliser Signal Not Received
Immobiliser Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.47 V
Simulated Idle Position Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.82 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 16 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 3.96 V
Coolant Temperature 9 °C
Intake Air Temperature 4.37 V
Intake Air Temperature -4 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 2 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Knock Signal Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.60 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0%
O2 Sensor 1 507 mV
O2 Sensor 2 449 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Open
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Open
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 128
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 129 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 39 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 125 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Inactive
Engine Speed 408 RPM
Idle Air Control 15 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 170 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 200 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 136 Steps
Desired Idle Air 61 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 13 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 1.050 RPM
Injection Pulse 5.8 ms
Engine Load Signal 2.1 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V
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Why is there such a difference in the expected and actual idle air mass flows?
Is the air intake trunk intact?
No splits in the large breather pipe to crankcase?
ICV rubber boot OK?
Funny rubber seal under the plennum intact?
If manifold vacuum is also poor (17 inch ish) then I would be looking for an air leak. vacuum should be 19 -20 inch on a good engine
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Why is there such a difference in the expected and actual idle air mass flows?
Is the air intake trunk intact?
No splits in the large breather pipe to crankcase?
ICV rubber boot OK?
Funny rubber seal under the plennum intact?
If manifold vacuum is also poor (17 inch ish) then I would be looking for an air leak. vacuum should be 19 -20 inch on a good engine
Well as to the breathers, the system coming from the plenum is blocked off as the intake system was spun around 180deg. There is a breather pipe coming from the breather box to vent underneath the car that may be why vacuum is different
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Why is there such a difference in the expected and actual idle air mass flows?
Is the air intake trunk intact?
No splits in the large breather pipe to crankcase?
ICV rubber boot OK?
Funny rubber seal under the plennum intact?
If manifold vacuum is also poor (17 inch ish) then I would be looking for an air leak. vacuum should be 19 -20 inch on a good engine
this engine is in a Mk2 Astra - the ones with no front grip ;D
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loop 2 BLM idle is still way too low.
The steps are from 0 to 255 - resetting sets to 128, obviously enough. I would expect oll the block learns to stay around that general 110-145 ish ballpark.
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loop 2 BLM idle is still way too low.
The steps are from 0 to 255 - resetting sets to 128, obviously enough. I would expect oll the block learns to stay around that general 110-145 ish ballpark.
Now with O2 it auto loaded most of the values i only noticed one missing which i selected from drop down list so thats not the problem, what was happening was when i pressed 'start activation' it greys out and then just stops like that and i have to press 'stop activation' to move on.
I don't think it has reset :-/
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Am I right in thinking that closed loop operation only occurs when the engine is up to temperature and the engine under load?
I didn't think self learning would occur at idle :-/
Do the readings make more sense at 'fast idle'? (1500-2000 rpm)
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this engine is in a Mk2 Astra - the ones with no front grip ;D
No need...... ;D
So from the looks of things bank 2 is at fault. Also notice the idle speed, as i say it will not idle when cold and even when warm doesnt get to near its suggested idle value according to that data.
Do we need a snapshot of fast idle?
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"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time> 10/01/2010. 18:06
Workshop information:
Please add your workshop
name in the settings window
Selected model> 1994 Omega-B Engine X 30 XE
Control Unit:
KW82 protocol initialized.
ECU ID= PS 90457098 261203272 1267358445 4
Measuring blocks information:
Identifier 1C
Battery Voltage 11.9 V
Immobiliser Signal Not Received
Immobiliser Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.47 V
Simulated Idle Position Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.80 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 15 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 2.67 V
Coolant Temperature 41 °C
Intake Air Temperature 4.19 V
Intake Air Temperature 2 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 1 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Knock Signal Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.60 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0%
O2 Sensor 1 107 mV
O2 Sensor 2 829 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Rich
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 102
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Active
Engine Speed 408 RPM
Idle Air Control 15 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 167 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 200 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 128 Steps
Desired Idle Air 55 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 12 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 1.040 RPM
Injection Pulse 5.9 ms
Engine Load Signal 2.0 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V
Thats after a reset.
Still worrying me that the idle air value is really low, might be why its not idling correctly maybe? What could this mean, that the pipe going to idle is too thin or that there is an air leak somewhere before it? I cant find one mind.
Also the what does the mV value mean on the O2 sensors as they are stupidly high.
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An idea I have often thought about is, to avoid any complications that could arise from disconnectng and removing the battery has anyone concidered hooking the leads up prior to removal to a boost pack. Can anyone see any problems or drawbacks doing that? :-/
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Have you done a compresion test?
I'm thinking that the learned values are per bank. If one cylinder in a bank is doing something that can't be measured then it could really confuse the ECU.
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To me, the actual idle air looks more plausible than the desired idle air...
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Andy: Compression test was done not too long back and everything was fine
To me, the actual idle air looks more plausible than the desired idle air...
Really so what would that mean then, as to why the idle is off also?
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The following look a little odd to me...
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
Presumably it was in P or N when taking the log?
Not sure this would do that much other then increase the idle speed? Is the ECU configured correctly for auto / manual transmission?
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 102
The 2 O2 loops have already started diverging.
Engine Speed 408 RPM
Desired Engine Idle Speed 1.040 RPM
Why is desired idle speed so high and why is it not achieved?
Desired Idle Air 55 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 12 kg/h
Again desired idle air is very high.
Injection Pulse 5.9 ms
That's much too much fuel for 12Kg/h intake air.
I wonder if the ICV is stuck for one, perhaps an air leak, exhaust blow or stuck EGR valve throwing the lambda reading on one bank off.
Maybe its' rough running has caused the ECU to raise target idle speed and air, but it can't be achieved due to ICV stuck.
Then there's the gearbox reportedly in R-D-3-2-1. :-/
Kevin
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Thanks for the reply Kevin, i'll try and explain what i know.
The engine once upon a time was an auto but i have it running an F20 manual gearbox.
I would say the desired idle is so high as that reading was taken from first starting the car on a morning. As to why it wants so much air and is only getting a 5th of it i cannot explain, i thought it was lack of air getting in but you and The Boy seem to think its wanting way too much.
As to the injector pulse again i have not a clue! Hehe
The ICV has not long been cleaned, its the 3rd one i have tried as i was blaming it for dodgy idle but it doesnt seem so. Cant find an air leak on the induction side and from an ear test cant find an exhaust leak either but am going to get the manifold gaskets change to make double sure. The EGR valve is blocked off but still present bolted to bulkhead.
As to the ECU raising the target air because of a problem, would it not have reset along with all the other sensors or is this something that doesnt reset/learn?
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Hmm. :-/
Struggling to remember what some of these parameters look like on a working engine, TBH.
What I would say is:
Actual reading from the MAF looks fine for an engine idling at that speed.
Injector duration should be around 3 ms when idling. OK, this is a cold engine so perhaps 4-4.5 ms. It's higher than that so something has pushed the fuel up.
If it runs fine after a reset and gets progressively worse it points to the lambda loops taking the fuelling out.
Desired idle and air look way out, but not something I've often looked at on data from healthy cars so maybe TADTS.
It looks like the ECU thinks it's got an auto gearbox and maybe something it's expecting from the auto gearbox is screwing it up (perhaps the torque reduce signal?). I can't remember if this ECU is configured with Tech 2 to be auto or manual, or if it's achieved by strapping one of the inputs in the wiring harness. :-/
I might be inclined to disconnect both lambda sensors, reset the block learning and then start it and see how it behaves, and take another snapshot.
Kevin
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Hmm. :-/
Struggling to remember what some of these parameters look like on a working engine, TBH.
What I would say is:
Actual reading from the MAF looks fine for an engine idling at that speed.
Injector duration should be around 3 ms when idling. OK, this is a cold engine so perhaps 4-4.5 ms. It's higher than that so something has pushed the fuel up.
If it runs fine after a reset and gets progressively worse it points to the lambda loops taking the fuelling out.
Desired idle and air look way out, but not something I've often looked at on data from healthy cars so maybe TADTS.
It looks like the ECU thinks it's got an auto gearbox and maybe something it's expecting from the auto gearbox is screwing it up (perhaps the torque reduce signal?). I can't remember if this ECU is configured with Tech 2 to be auto or manual, or if it's achieved by strapping one of the inputs in the wiring harness. :-/
I might be inclined to disconnect both lambda sensors, reset the block learning and then start it and see how it behaves, and take another snapshot.
Kevin
I did start collecting snapshots from various engines.
But then like a first class prat, rebuilt the lappy without hooking them off :-[
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Hmm. :-/
Struggling to remember what some of these parameters look like on a working engine, TBH.
What I would say is:
Actual reading from the MAF looks fine for an engine idling at that speed.
Injector duration should be around 3 ms when idling. OK, this is a cold engine so perhaps 4-4.5 ms. It's higher than that so something has pushed the fuel up.
If it runs fine after a reset and gets progressively worse it points to the lambda loops taking the fuelling out.
Desired idle and air look way out, but not something I've often looked at on data from healthy cars so maybe TADTS.
It looks like the ECU thinks it's got an auto gearbox and maybe something it's expecting from the auto gearbox is screwing it up (perhaps the torque reduce signal?). I can't remember if this ECU is configured with Tech 2 to be auto or manual, or if it's achieved by strapping one of the inputs in the wiring harness. :-/
I might be inclined to disconnect both lambda sensors, reset the block learning and then start it and see how it behaves, and take another snapshot.
Kevin
Might try that Kevin, unplugging, reset then run around without them for awhile. One thing i noticed is that when unplugged no fault code is present. See what we get as after a reset it does run fine apart from not wanting to idle especially when cold, what does TADTS mean? :-[
As to the ECU can it be re-programmed or is there an ECU i can use thats manual, this engine was the early 1994 X30XE
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wanting to idle especially when cold, what does TADTS mean?
Sorry. :-[ TADTS = They All Do That, Sir.
If the ECU is configurable for Auto / Manual it will be possible to so do with a Tech 2.
Kevin
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wanting to idle especially when cold, what does TADTS mean?
Sorry. :-[ TADTS = They All Do That, Sir.
If the ECU is configurable for Auto / Manual it will be possible to so do with a Tech 2.
Kevin
Hehe an to think i should know all the Abb.
I wonder if they are? I do have another ECU but its exactly the same part no. as the one installed so would imagine thats auto also?
There should be a fault code flagged up straight away with the O2 sensors unplugged should there not?
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Hehe an to think i should know all the Abb.
I wonder if they are? I do have another ECU but its exactly the same part no. as the one installed so would imagine thats auto also?
There should be a fault code flagged up straight away with the O2 sensors unplugged should there not?
The same part number doesn't necessarily mean the same config. in the ECU. Might be worth a try...
It will raise a fault code with the Lambdas disconnected but it will force it to run open loop and if it runs acceptably it goes some way to proving that the Lambdas were driving the fuelling into a zone where it runs grumpy.
I don't suppose the Lambdas for banks 1 and 2 have been cross-connected? ::)
Kevin
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The following look a little odd to me...
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
Presumably it was in P or N when taking the log?
Not sure this would do that much other then increase the idle speed? Is the ECU configured correctly for auto / manual transmission?
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 102
The 2 O2 loops have already started diverging.
Engine Speed 408 RPM
Desired Engine Idle Speed 1.040 RPM
Why is desired idle speed so high and why is it not achieved?
Desired Idle Air 55 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 12 kg/h
Again desired idle air is very high.
Injection Pulse 5.9 ms
That's much too much fuel for 12Kg/h intake air.
I wonder if the ICV is stuck for one, perhaps an air leak, exhaust blow or stuck EGR valve throwing the lambda reading on one bank off.
Maybe its' rough running has caused the ECU to raise target idle speed and air, but it can't be achieved due to ICV stuck.
Then there's the gearbox reportedly in R-D-3-2-1. :-/
Kevin
Seems that's a normal response from an auto in gear Kev, mine reports that when not in park/neutral when it reverts to P - N 0V
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The following look a little odd to me...
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
Presumably it was in P or N when taking the log?
Not sure this would do that much other then increase the idle speed? Is the ECU configured correctly for auto / manual transmission?
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 102
The 2 O2 loops have already started diverging.
Engine Speed 408 RPM
Desired Engine Idle Speed 1.040 RPM
Why is desired idle speed so high and why is it not achieved?
Desired Idle Air 55 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 12 kg/h
Again desired idle air is very high.
Injection Pulse 5.9 ms
That's much too much fuel for 12Kg/h intake air.
I wonder if the ICV is stuck for one, perhaps an air leak, exhaust blow or stuck EGR valve throwing the lambda reading on one bank off.
Maybe its' rough running has caused the ECU to raise target idle speed and air, but it can't be achieved due to ICV stuck.
Then there's the gearbox reportedly in R-D-3-2-1. :-/
Kevin
Seems that's a normal response from an auto in gear Kev, mine reports that when not in park/neutral when it reverts to P - N 0V
Yeah, its on or other when configed for auto. This is a manual though, suspect ecu misconfigured, though not convinced thats the cause of the problem
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Maybe a recording of live data rather than a snapshot would reveal more.
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CaptainZok: I have seen the record button on "My Naff Code Reader", i'll take a look.
The same part number doesn't necessarily mean the same config. in the ECU. Might be worth a try...
It will raise a fault code with the Lambdas disconnected but it will force it to run open loop and if it runs acceptably it goes some way to proving that the Lambdas were driving the fuelling into a zone where it runs grumpy.
I don't suppose the Lambdas for banks 1 and 2 have been cross-connected? ::)
Kevin
A couple of people have said the same asking if the plugs have been crossed over, im pretty sure this isnt the case and cant remember when it COULD have happened pretty sure they have been cabled tied since installation so couldn't have got mixed up. What would changing them over do if there were right in the first place, dont suppose it couldn't make it any worse ay? Hehe
Also whats worrying is that no fault codes are reported when O2 sensors unplugged.
TheBoy: Would it being an Auto really cause problems? How do i go about getting it to manual, has to be a Tech2 job?
Lastly (i know... hehe) we are cracking on with the O2 fault but we know from the readings its wanting way too much air at idle but what could be causing it not idling correctly and not even bother when cold?
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dont believe the misconfig of gearbox is your problem. Can't guarantee that though
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One bank appears to behave itself while the other sails off into the distance. Seems to me that crossed lambda wiring isn't the problem.
Are they genuine VX lambda sensors? Is one a different spec/manufacturer to the other?
What fuel pump are you using? Is the fuel filter clean? Is the fuel pressure regulator working correctly?
Are all the fuel injectors working properly? Is it worth getting them flow tested and/or ultrasonicly cleaned?
NB I don't know the answers to these questions (and don't know if they are the right questions to ask) but no one else seems to have asked them before :-/
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One bank appears to behave itself while the other sails off into the distance. Seems to me that crossed lambda wiring isn't the problem.
Are they genuine VX lambda sensors? Is one a different spec/manufacturer to the other?
What fuel pump are you using? Is the fuel filter clean? Is the fuel pressure regulator working correctly?
Are all the fuel injectors working properly? Is it worth getting them flow tested and/or ultrasonicly cleaned?
NB I don't know the answers to these questions (and don't know if they are the right questions to ask) but no one else seems to have asked them before :-/
Thanks for your input Andy, all help is greatly recieved!
Right.... No they are not VX Lambda sensors and are different manufacturers, one is from AutoVaux mind. Fuel tank, pump ad filter recently changed and are working Astra Mk3 GSI items. FPR is a brand new GM item that replaced the 4.0bar that was once fitted.
As to the fuel injectors i have not ever had them tested so wouldnt know. Is it worth getting them sent away?
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Is it worth swapping the lambda sensors wires over for a few minute to see if the fault "transfers" ... I know it will screw things up over time as the system tries to correct things and can't ... but for just a minute it shouldn't be too bad ?? Might help pinpoint a lambda problem ?
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One bank appears to behave itself while the other sails off into the distance. Seems to me that crossed lambda wiring isn't the problem.
Are they genuine VX lambda sensors? Is one a different spec/manufacturer to the other?
What fuel pump are you using? Is the fuel filter clean? Is the fuel pressure regulator working correctly?
Are all the fuel injectors working properly? Is it worth getting them flow tested and/or ultrasonicly cleaned?
NB I don't know the answers to these questions (and don't know if they are the right questions to ask) but no one else seems to have asked them before :-/
Thanks for your input Andy, all help is greatly recieved!
Right.... No they are not VX Lambda sensors and are different manufacturers, one is from AutoVaux mind. Fuel tank, pump ad filter recently changed and are working Astra Mk3 GSI items. FPR is a brand new GM item that replaced the 4.0bar that was once fitted.
As to the fuel injectors i have not ever had them tested so wouldnt know. Is it worth getting them sent away?
I'm fishing for differences between the two banks.
Is the lambda sensor on bank 2 the 'no-name' sensor ?? (passenger side on RWD so probably front bank on FWD [if gearbox is on passenger side of car]).
I'm hoping that Kevin will have an opinion on cleaning/testing the injectors.
Another thought, are any of the sensor cables run in close proximity to HT cables?
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Valid points regarding injectors. We are clutching at straws now, after all. ::)
I would say it's rare for them to clog but it can happen. I still say fire it up with the Lambdas disconnected and see what happens. If an injector on one bank were clogged (for example) it could send the lambda loop off but I would also expect a misfire.
Kevin
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Valid points regarding injectors. We are clutching at straws now, after all. ::)
I would say it's rare for them to clog but it can happen. I still say fire it up with the Lambdas disconnected and see what happens. If an injector on one bank were clogged (for example) it could send the lambda loop off but I would also expect a misfire.
Kevin
Agreed.
With the tools available ("My Naff Code Reader") it shouldn't be necessary to spend money on new or refurbished parts (unless proven faulty).
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Again lads, thanks for all the input!
Valid points regarding injectors. We are clutching at straws now, after all. ::)
I would say it's rare for them to clog but it can happen. I still say fire it up with the Lambdas disconnected and see what happens. If an injector on one bank were clogged (for example) it could send the lambda loop off but I would also expect a misfire.
Kevin
It does misfire after a while, low down in the rev range then clears up as higher in the range. Im going to disconnect the sensors tomorrow, reset the O2 block learn values and take a reading wednesday and see whats happening and what you guys think if thats ok? Would that give the information needed for more assesment? Also.... hot or cold?
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It does misfire after a while, low down in the rev range then clears up as higher in the range.
Lamba goes open loop over a certain level of engine load so I think that tallies with our other observations.
Kevin
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As said i unplugged both sensors and reset the learn values and this is what we get 1st thing (i also took a recording but it seems a lot of text to flood the thread with):
"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time> 12/01/2010. 07:26
Workshop information:
Please add your workshop
name in the settings window
Selected model> 1994 Omega-B Engine X 30 XE
Control Unit:
KW82 protocol initialized.
ECU ID= PS 90457098 261203272 1267358445 4
Measuring blocks information:
Identifier 1C
Battery Voltage 13.3 V
Immobiliser Signal Not Received
Immobiliser Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.47 V
Simulated Idle Position Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.80 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 15 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 2.83 V
Coolant Temperature 37 °C
Intake Air Temperature 4.23 V
Intake Air Temperature 0 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 2 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Knock Signal Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.60 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0%
O2 Sensor 1 429 mV
O2 Sensor 2 566 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Closed
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Rich
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 150 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 148
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 122 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 128 Steps
Hall Sensor Inactive
Engine Speed Pulse Inactive
Engine Speed 449 RPM
Idle Air Control 22 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 171 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 200 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 136 Steps
Desired Idle Air 60 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 12 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 1.050 RPM
Injection Pulse 5.0 ms
Engine Load Signal 1.7 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V
Will take another look after a run around, injection pulse has not really moved has it?
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Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Why does Cyl 2+5 report differently to the other 2 coils? Is it significant or is it just an "My Naff Code Reader" wrinkle?
A silly question.... Is the connector on the IAC the same as the one on the EGR ? Would it run at all if you connected them the wrong way round? ::)
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Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Spark
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Why does Cyl 2+5 report differently to the other 2 coils? Is it significant or is it just an "My Naff Code Reader" wrinkle?
A silly question.... Is the connector on the IAC the same as the one on the EGR ? Would it run at all if you connected them the wrong way round? ::)
The Ignition Coils are constantly switching from load/spark should they be doing it in sync?
EGR valve is out th way up on the bulkhead, has never been unplugged.
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Interesting that it still thinks the Lambda loops are closed. :-/ Maybe it'll take a while for it to realise they are gone and go into limp home.
Ignition will show the state when it took the snapshot but the data is not gathered fast enough to see the sequence.
Kevin
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The Ignition Coils are constantly switching from load/spark should they be doing it in sync?
OK, I'm not familiar with the software. Presumably it shows load when there is current flowing through a coil (and the spark occurs when the current stops). At 600 rpm idle (10 revolutions per second) each coil will be firing 10 times per second. It didn't occur to me that they would try to show that as live data.
EGR valve is out th way up on the bulkhead, has never been unplugged.
So no chance that the ECU is opening the EGR when it thinks it is opening the IAC then :y
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Will give it a few miles then see if everything is as it should be with the sensors unplugged and report back
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Out of curiosity, do your throttles close completely? (or has the throttle stop screw been wound in to set the idle manually?)
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Out of curiosity, do your throttles close completely? (or has the throttle stop screw been wound in to set the idle manually?)
No the screw is wound right out now so the car is idling (or lack of) by itself
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How do people!!!!!!
After a few (200) miles i've for some more data for you. Its even after this long with O2 sensors unplugged it runs better through the rev range not really saved much on fuel i dont thing but hey! ;D
Erm one thing that still puzzles me is, it hasnt logged any fault codes, i noticed the EML light come on while on motorway around..... national speed limits but it didnt stop on long, went out and i have looked and nothing has been stored.
"My Naff Code Reader" 090714 - PC based diagnostic tool
Date and time> 21/01/2010. 18:14
Workshop information:
Please add your workshop
name in the settings window
Selected model> 1994 Omega-B Engine X 30 XE
Control Unit:
KW82 protocol initialized.
ECU ID= PS 90457098 261203272 1267358445 4
Measuring blocks information:
Identifier 1C
Battery Voltage 12.8 V
Immobiliser Signal Not Received
Immobiliser Inactive
TPS Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0.47 V
Simulated Idle Position Active
Simulated Full Load Switch Inactive
Mass Air Flow Sensor 0.77 V
Mass Air Flow Sensor 14 kg/h
Coolant Temperature 0.94 V
Coolant Temperature 93 °C
Intake Air Temperature 3.92 V
Intake Air Temperature 10 °C
Engine Type 6 Cylinder
Transmission Coding Automatic Transmission
Park/Neutral Switch R-D-3-2-1 12V
A/C Information Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
A/C Compressor Switch (Air Conditioning) Inactive 0V
Telltale (Check Light) Off 12V
Fuel Pump Relay Active 0V
Spark Angle before TDC (Top Dead Centre) 14 °CA
Ignition Coil Cyl. 1+4 (Cylinder) Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 2+5 Load
Ignition Coil Cyl. 3+6 (Cylinder) Load
Knock Signal Inactive
Knock Retard 0 °CA
Secondary Air Pump Relay Inactive 12V
EGR Valve (Exhaust-Gas Recirculation) Inactive
EGR Position Feedback (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) 0.58 V
Fuel Tank Ventilation Valve 0%
O2 Sensor 1 283 mV
O2 Sensor 2 488 mV
O2 Sensor Loop 1 Closed
O2 Sensor Loop 2 Open
Air/Fuel Ratio 1 Lean
Air/Fuel Ratio 2 Lean
O2-Loop 1 Integrator 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 Integrator 154 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Idle (Block Learn Map) 132 Steps
O2-Loop 1 BLM Partial Load (Block Learn Map) 154 Steps
O2-Loop 2 BLM Partial Load(Block Learn Map) 154 Steps
Hall Sensor Active
Engine Speed Pulse Inactive
Engine Speed 693 RPM
Idle Air Control 20 Steps
IAC Integrator (Idle Air Control) 179 Steps
IAC Adaptation Slope (Idle Air Control) 200 Steps
IAC Block Learn (Idle Air Control) 136 Steps
Desired Idle Air 43 kg/h
Actual Value Idle Air 12 kg/h
Desired Engine Idle Speed 750 RPM
Injection Pulse 4.3 ms
Engine Load Signal 1.2 ms
TPS Load Signal (Throttle Position Sensor) 0%
Vehicle Speed Pulse Not Received 12V
Vehicle Speed 0 km/h
Intake Manifold Valve 1 Inactive 12V
Intake Manifold Valve 2 Inactive 12V
Torque Control Inactive
A/C Cutoff Relay (Air Conditioning) Inactive 12V
Diagnostic Request Inactive 5V
Whats still really bugging me and starting to cause a problem is it not being able to idle when cold, when warm it can sit at 750rpm as it should but can vary between 650-750 but i have the grub screw on throttle bodies right out, i dont know if its wise to wind it in to the limit as to where "My Naff Code Reader"'s output states it no longer at idle?
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Do you believe that the IAC is working? It seems to me that it is stuck slightly open (so engine idles when warm but not when cold).
I recall you writing that you hadn't disconnected the IAC or EGR but I am still wondering whether the plugs might have got swapped. :-/
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I am 99% sure they have not been switched, if they had been surely the readings for 'EGR' which isnt active would think that it is?
I've tried 2 different IAV's since i changed the original one that i thought WAS at fault and both have been the same, i cant see two ICV's being FUBAR. These dont noticably fast idle should they, do everyones here when first started noticably fast idle when started?
Edit: Cant see how the two could get mixed up..... they are completely different plugs from a quick scan this morning
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Other than the idle problem, what do we think about the O2 sensors now? Like i said with them unplugged the car has run better for longer but has never showed up a fault code. Where do we go from here?
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Other than the idle problem, what do we think about the O2 sensors now? Like i said with them unplugged the car has run better for longer but has never showed up a fault code. Where do we go from here?
Well, I'd plug them back in now you've tried it without them. If it is run about without the sensors heated long term it will do them no good.
I am leaning towards suspecting the o2 sensors - or something making them read inaccurately. :-/
Would be nice to see the car and get a Tech 2 on it, though.
Kevin
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Well, I'd plug them back in now you've tried it without them. If it is run about without the sensors heated long term it will do them no good.
I am leaning towards suspecting the o2 sensors - or something making them read inaccurately. :-/
Would be nice to see the car and get a Tech 2 on it, though.
Kevin
If someone localish with Tech2 has some time i would gladly bring it to them/you.
Just seems weird that no fault codes were stored surely thats not normal.
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Hello me....... again!
Morning people how are we all?
Well i dug out my old ICV one that can stick from time to time and what do you know.... it idles when cold!!!! I cant see as 2 ICV (descibed as working when posted) would be at fault and when i stick on an item i know can stick sometimes when decelerating works fine, crazy! have not had "My Naff Code Reader" back on the case as yet but plugged O2 sensors back in also and car is fine so far.