Omega Owners Forum

Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Squealey on 16 March 2010, 22:26:54

Title: Whys This Then??
Post by: Squealey on 16 March 2010, 22:26:54
Did the track rod end on my Elite the other day, all went swimmingly, no problems at all. Counted the rotations off then counted them back on again.

Took the car for a quick spin and the steering is now no longer central, its actually quite a way off.

There was play in the old one (hence the change) but not THAT much (borderline MOT failure sort of movement)

Looks like even more expense getting the tracking done now :(
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: TheBoy on 16 March 2010, 22:28:18
Yup, I've a;lways noticed the same
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 16 March 2010, 22:32:56
Sometimes the threaded section varies in length, especially with pattern parts, so screwing in the same number of turns doesn't necessarily restore the correct toe.


Kevin
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: jonny2112 on 16 March 2010, 22:45:10
Would it be worth doing both sides? Especially if you are going to pay for alignment, etc.
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Squealey on 16 March 2010, 22:56:57
Quote
Would it be worth doing both sides? Especially if you are going to pay for alignment, etc.

If I had a bit more cash then I might have, but its already cost me a packet in the last couple of weeks and tbh the other one is as tight as a drum.
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: jonny2112 on 17 March 2010, 00:31:55
That was me last year! I just changed the passenger side following MOT fail, but the steering wheel now sits off centre. Never got round to changing the other side and put up with the steering wheel. I had spent a fortune prior to this in alignment checks, which never seemed to work properly anyway. Passed MOT in that respect this year (tho failed on handbrake :-[) but I think I'll probably get round to changing it at some point anyway.
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 March 2010, 09:27:36
Quote
Looks like even more expense getting the tracking done now

If funds are tight, there is a stop gap method..

You know the other side is correct, and that only one variable was changed, so adjust the new TRE until you have a straight steering wheel again. :y

Having said that, tyres are expensive relative to a tracking adjustment, and can be eaten in short order by a misaligned car. :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Jimbob on 17 March 2010, 09:29:14
when i did mine, I took the old one off, set the new one to the same length, fitted new one.

Steering is fine.

Had the geometry check afterwards and it was very close to perfect  :y
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Gaffers on 17 March 2010, 10:06:49
Quote
Quote
Looks like even more expense getting the tracking done now

If funds are tight, there is a stop gap method..

You know the other side is correct, and that only one variable was changed, so adjust the new TRE until you have a straight steering wheel again. :y

Having said that, tyres are expensive relative to a tracking adjustment, and can be eaten in short order by a misaligned car. :-/

Kevin

Was going to suggest the same thing, if you adjust the one you changed until the steering is as before you'll be almost as spot on as any spanner monkey will be with his 'pro' kit (previous comments excludes people who know what they are doing like WIM of course! ;D )

It will certainly keep you going until you have the funds to get to WIM  :y
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 March 2010, 10:22:15
Or, if you have a laser level....place it on the opposite side with the steering set straight ahead and move the lvel out from the rim until the beam touches a datum on the rear arch.....measure the distance between the level and the rim.

Repeat on the other side to the same datum.....adjust the track rod end until the distance is the same.
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Seth on 17 March 2010, 12:51:55
Quote
Sometimes the threaded section varies in length, especially with pattern parts, so screwing in the same number of turns doesn't necessarily restore the correct toe.


Kevin
And it depends on where the actual thread 'cut' begins on the replacement tie-rod that you've fitted.
 ;)
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: jonny2112 on 17 March 2010, 16:45:30
Despite spending the fortune on tracking, etc my car suffers from camber issues, and the front tyres always wear badly on the inner edge. I didn't realise how bad they were this time round but did not notice that the passenger side didn't seem to be as badly worn as the (unchanged) driver's side.
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Entwood on 17 March 2010, 16:57:56
Quote
Despite spending the fortune on tracking, etc my car suffers from camber issues, and the front tyres always wear badly on the inner edge. I didn't realise how bad they were this time round but did not notice that the passenger side didn't seem to be as badly worn as the (unchanged) driver's side.


Camber and tracking are 2 different animals completely ..


http://www.blackboots.co.uk/tech-geometrytheory.php
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: jonny2112 on 17 March 2010, 17:04:35
Sorry, forgive my ignorance in this field! I take it poor camber causes the tyres to wear on the inside. I do believe it was the tyre issue that I requested be fixed when I left the car in. I was told that it is difficult to rectify, and to be honest I don't recall if any improvements were made at all. I just buy cheaper tyres now!
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Entwood on 17 March 2010, 17:12:18
In its simplicity ..

Tracking is the "pointing in / pointing out" of the tyres from the straight ahead position measured through the 9 -3 o'clock ie horizontal plane - and can be adjusted fairly easily by any most garages

Camber is the "uprightness"  of the wheel, measured through the 6 - 12 o'clock position, measured in the vertical plane - and is only measured accurately by garages with specialist equipment. Those that have the kit - and know how to use it - can set it spot on in just a few minutes.

Omega's are prone to camber issues.. and as you have seen .. this usually gives wear on the inner edges as the wheel is not sitting vertical to the ground.

The angle of the wheel changes as the suspension moves, both with age, load and cornering forces, it is therefore very important that this is set correctly, or you will wreck a set of tyres in a few thousand miles.

Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 March 2010, 17:35:27
Quote
Sorry, forgive my ignorance in this field! I take it poor camber causes the tyres to wear on the inside. I do believe it was the tyre issue that I requested be fixed when I left the car in. I was told that it is difficult to rectify, and to be honest I don't recall if any improvements were made at all. I just buy cheaper tyres now!

The problem is the limits for camber specified for the Omega allow too great a negative camber angle (top of tyre pointing "inwards" towards the centre of the car relative to the bottom of the tyre).

This means you can take it to a tyre outfit, they put it on the machine and it shows the adjustment in the "green" when it's actually excessive, and will wear tyres.

What you need to do is to take it to someone who knows what they are doing such as Wheels In Motion. I appreciate that's not going to be easy given your location (a lovely part of the world, BTW) so the next best thing is to take it to a garage with a decent full geometry system, and specify that you want -1o10' to -1o15' of camber. That should be about the right ballpark.

Kevin
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: Andy H on 17 March 2010, 20:03:47
I haven't done this myself but I understand that the front hub is bolted to the McPherson strut and has an elongated top bolt hole.

Setting the camber involves loosening the bolts to change the angle of the hub on the strut.
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: jonny2112 on 17 March 2010, 20:17:43
Cheers Kevin, for the info and indeed the sentiment. Armed with actual figures as you have indicated will allow me to appear as if I know what I'm talking about, when I find someone I can trust to carry it out! I must have a look for the printout I received the last time just to see if camber was done at all.
Title: Re: Whys This Then??
Post by: jonny2112 on 17 March 2010, 20:18:50
Quote
I haven't done this myself but I understand that the front hub is bolted to the McPherson strut and has an elongated top bolt hole.

Setting the camber involves loosening the bolts to change the angle of the hub on the strut.

Not sure I would fancy messing with this myself  :o